Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Chef Jim]

49 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

I thought Hong Kong was turned over to China by the British in 1997.

 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

Probably not, and we'd have gone on eating up Russia's bluffs.  Their military is a thin coat of super modern equipment, on top of a mountain of ***** run by poorly trained, poorly led, poorly motivated soldiers.  But all Trump saw was "Tough Guy" Putin and the fancy gear they hauled out for military parades, and was very, very impressed.  Just like he was supposed to be.  Trump got took by a "Very Savvy" guy.  Of course, now we know that Tsar Vladimir the Insane has no clothes, no thanks to Trump...

 

No, probably.

 

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Really? Love how you guys throw out "facts" like that. Why would you say that, anyway? You think Putin respects Trump, so he wouldn't do his genius move? Remember it was Trump who held up weapons for Ukraine for a favor. Disgraceful! 

 

Hong Kong was lost on Trump's watch. 

 

The fact is that in the years before and after Trump, Putin didn't invade Ukraine.  You can spout out all the silly "he was doing Putin's work for him [when it was really the Dems doing that with their Russian collusion/agent bull####]," but most of us know better.

[Tiberius]

 

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

I thought Hong Kong was turned over to China by the British in 1997.

Oh, you didn’t hear what happened with China there recently? Nothing? 

23 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

No, probably.

 

 

The fact is that in the years before and after Trump, Putin didn't invade Ukraine.  You can spout out all the silly "he was doing Putin's work for him [when it was really the Dems doing that with their Russian collusion/agent bull####]," but most of us know better.

He’s been pretty busy murdering people for decades. 
 

Do you agree with Biden’s strategy? Seems to be working as far as getting Russia’s army destroyed. 

[sherpa]

13 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Oh, you didn’t hear what happened with China there recently? Nothing? 

He’s been pretty busy murdering people for decades. 
 

 

 

What I "heard" was in 1898, (not 1998), Great Britain agreed to turn over Hong Kong to China in 99 years.

That was done in 1997.

 

Your next claim, which would make about as much sense, is the Trump turned over Jesus to the Roman rulers in Jerusalem.

 

I can't stand Trump, but you sure bring discredit to yourself when you offer ridiculous assertions.

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

What I "heard" was in 1898, (not 1998), Great Britain agreed to turn over Hong Kong to China in 99 years.

That was done in 1997.

 

Your next claim, which would make about as much sense, is the Trump turned over Jesus to the Roman rulers in Jerusalem.

 

I can't stand Trump, but you sure bring discredit to yourself when you offer ridiculous assertions.

So when Hong Kong lost their constitutional liberties its was none of our business, correct? That’s your argument, is it not? 

 

Just yes or no will suffice 

[sherpa]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

So when Hong Kong lost their constitutional liberties its was none of our business, correct? That’s your argument, is it not? 

 

Just yes or no will suffice 

 

You ask stupid questions, based on idiotic premises, then tell someone what an acceptable response is?

 

The US, nor any other country for that matter, does not have the ability to dictate internal politics of other countries.

 

Hong Kong was turned over in 1997.

The US, nor any US president, and there have been a few since then and have watched this.

 

You can't go to war every time sovereign nations do what they do. 

 

Let me ask you a few things, and unlike you, I won't tell you how to answer.

Have you ever been to Russia or China?

Since the US doesn't control either, does it make sense to you to waste a generation of our youth to try to force something you can't control and really have no standing, (a legal term, but appropriate), in?

 

Last, do you really think this crack team of Biden and Harris with a Dem Senate and House would have caused events in the China/Hong Kong dynamic to have progressed differently?

 

[Doc]

38 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

He’s been pretty busy murdering people for decades. 

 

Do you agree with Biden’s strategy? Seems to be working as far as getting Russia’s army destroyed. 

 

What "strategy"?  Looking incompetent with his pullout from Afghanistan and signalling to Russia that he can invade Ukraine?  No, Putin grossly miscalculated his country's might, the will of the Ukrainian people and the world's response. 

[Big Blitz]

This orchestrated sham continues 

 

 

 

 

 

Dupes

[Tiberius]

 

Another claim of retaking area 

 

 

[BillStime]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

What "strategy"?  Looking incompetent with his pullout from Afghanistan and signalling to Russia that he can invade Ukraine?  No, Putin grossly miscalculated his country's might, the will of the Ukrainian people and the world's response. 

Who negotiated handing over Afghanistan to terrorists in 2020?

 

Keep singing the Fox News talking point which is recycled every day on that network.

 

Meanwhile

 

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

Just now, BillStime said:

Who negotiated handing over Afghanistan to terrorists in 2020?

 

Keep singing the Fox News talking point which is recycled every day on that network.

 

Meanwhile

 

 

 

 

 

Can anyone imagine Trump not trashing the United States intelligence services when they would of been --rightly--saying Putin was about to invade? He would of just gone off on them, saying they were part of the problem, not Putin. 

 

Thank god ---and American voters--for dumping the Putin poppet! 

[sherpa]

15 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Can anyone imagine Trump not trashing the United States intelligence services when they would of been --rightly--saying Putin was about to invade? He would of just gone off on them, saying they were part of the problem, not Putin. 

 

Thank god ---and American voters--for dumping the Putin poppet! 

 

I'm sure your next imaginary narrative that has never happened will be just as convincing.

[Big Blitz]

Yep I did.  

 

I'm so glad we're in this distraction I mean fight from I mean for Democracy or freedom or the thing.  Whatever it is.   

 

Speaking of fights for Democracy.....the global racists aligned with your Democrat party didn't care about the brown people in Afghanistan.

 

 

[BillStime]

18 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

I'm sure your next imaginary narrative that has never happened will be just as convincing.

White washing history again?

[sherpa]

5 minutes ago, BillStime said:

White washing history again?

What?

There is no "history."

It's a speculative story created as a hypothetical.

Useless.

[Tiberius]

 

[BillStime]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

What?

There is no "history."

It's a speculative story created as a hypothetical.

Useless.

 

Oh really...

 

 

[BillStime]

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

14 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

I'm sure your next imaginary narrative that has never happened will be just as convincing.

You sat you don’t like Trump but your hair sure rises when he is criticized. It’s not imaginary that Trump took Putin’s word over our own intelligence services. That happened. No reason to doubt that had he won the election nothing would of changed. Trump dumped our friends the Kurds, he might very well of, again, held up any aid to Ukraine. 

 

 

[Tiberius]

15 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Yep I did.  

 

I'm so glad we're in this distraction I mean fight from I mean for Democracy or freedom or the thing.  Whatever it is.   

 

Speaking of fights for Democracy.....the global racists aligned with your Democrat party didn't care about the brown people in Afghanistan.

 

 

At least Putin army is getting destroyed. That’s a good thing. 

 

Were you upset with Trump abandoning the Kurds? 

[All_Pro_Bills]

5 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

At least Putin army is getting destroyed. That’s a good thing. 

 

Were you upset with Trump abandoning the Kurds? 

Concluding Trump abandoned the Kruds is a simplistic conclusion to a very complex web of relationships.  The U.S., Turkey, Russia, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, UAE, and the Kurds along with other groups all have both competing and common objectives that come into play at one time or another.  These interests very from issue to issue or from situation to situation.  As do the alliances between the parties.  And U.S. policy from Trump to Biden hasn't changed much.  I'm not very clear on what those policy objectives are at this point other than to keep this balancing act from boiling over into some wider conflict. 

[Tiberius]

Just now, All_Pro_Bills said:

Concluding Trump abandoned the Kruds is a simplistic conclusion to a very complex web of relationships.  The U.S., Turkey, Russia, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, UAE, and the Kurds along with other groups all have both competing and common objectives that come into play at one time or another.  These interests very from issue to issue or from situation to situation.  As do the alliances between the parties.  And U.S. policy from Trump to Biden hasn't changed much.  I'm not very clear on what those policy objectives are at this point other than to keep this balancing act from boiling over into some wider conflict. 

No, he just tossed them to the wolves. Our allies, he abandoned 

 

 
 

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No, he just tossed them to the wolves. Our allies, he abandoned 

 

 
 

Again - who the F does Putin think he is?

 

 

[Tiberius]

Hope this is true 

 

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No, he just tossed them to the wolves. Our allies, he abandoned 

 

 
 

Like it or not the reality is it's not that simple.

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, BillStime said:

Again - who the F does Putin think he is?

 

 

Just on a side note, he had a 15 year old girl, an Olympian, filled with steroids. I hope we don’t let them back in the Olympics again either. He just uses up people

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Like it or not the reality is it's not that simple.

I know, take a cut and dry issue and muddy the water. 
 

No, Trump abandoned them. 100k Kurds were forced to flee their homes 

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Just on a side note, he had a 15 year old girl, an Olympian, filled with steroids. I hope we don’t let them back in the Olympics again either. He just uses up people

I know, take a cut and dry issue and muddy the water. 
 

No, Trump abandoned them. 100k Kurds were forced to flee their homes 

Here we go again Tibs - like it or not the reality is it's not that simple - just like CRT.

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Zelensky Responds to Joe Biden's 'Historic' NATO Speech in Less Than Flattering Terms

 

 

Depending on who you listen to, you’ll get a completely different reaction to Joe Biden’s speech at NATO addressing the Russian invasion of Ukraine. His sycophants will tell you it was not only “historic,” but that it surpassed Ronald Reagan’s famous “tear down this wall” speech. And as to the massive gaffe at the end, well, at least Biden is mean to Putin or something; consequences for millions of innocent people need not apply.

 

 

Obviously, those who aren’t as partial to the president weren’t nearly as impressed. I found the speech to be meandering and generic, long on talk and short on action. In response to the idea that it measured up to Ronald Reagan’s proclamation about the Berlin Wall, I’d suggest that we wouldn’t even remember that moment if the wall hadn’t been, you know, actually torn down. In short, words are cheap, and Biden is a top wholesaler.

 

Anyone can get up and read a teleprompter, throw out some tough talk, and then head back to their Delaware beach house. The test of Biden’s speech is not whether it sounded good (and it really didn’t), but if it actually leads to anything tangible–and I wouldn’t count on that.

 

But just in case anyone wants to accuse me of being a partisan for holding that opinion, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has responded to the speech, and it wasn’t positive.

 

 

 

https://redstate.com/bonchie/2022/03/27/zelensky-responds-to-joe-bidens-historic-nato-speech-in-less-than-flattering-terms-n541623

 

 

 

[Doc]

Ouch.

[Big Blitz]

5 hours ago, Tiberius said:

At least Putin army is getting destroyed. That’s a good thing. 

 

Were you upset with Trump abandoning the Kurds? 

 

 

No.  Trump's foreign policy didn't revolve around distracting the world from Covid 19

 

Looks like Russia never needed to be canceled nor did any of these supposed things Trump did to hurt Ukraine and help Russia actually happened.  No need for the crisis actor President of Ukraine to be begging for help the world over 

 

Russia could have done this and just got completely destroyed irregardless 

 

That is what's happening correct 

[Tiberius]

 

[OrangeBills]

On 3/23/2022 at 5:39 PM, BillStime said:

Corrected by forced, cleansed or spat out - sounds a lot like the legislation in red states.

 

 

Need an answer here generally, how do you ignore a poster?   Having tried and getting frustrated.  Looking for honest dialogue from real people with brains.

 

Can't take this incessant stupid idiotic BS 

 

[BillStime]

3 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Need an answer here generally, how do you ignore a poster?   Having tried and getting frustrated.  Looking for honest dialogue from real people with brains.

 

Can't take this incessant stupid idiotic BS 

 

Instructions

[All_Pro_Bills]

22 hours ago, Tiberius said:

I know, take a cut and dry issue and muddy the water. 
 

No, Trump abandoned them. 100k Kurds were forced to flee their homes 

You just refuse to see the big picture when it comes to alliances and arrangements in the Middle East.  Like it or not you need to take into account how actions related to the Kurds will impact relations with Turkey.  A fellow NATO member which "grants" the U.S. access to their airspace and bases to run missions and host U.S. forces.  Pronounce and commit to undying support for the Kurds as you desire and Erdogan would have told the U.S. to get out.  That threat was clear.  And most likely signaling to ISIS forces under his "protection" that U.S. interests can be legitimate targets.  Or unleashing more migrants into Europe.  Its a balancing act where the U.S. isn't in the position to dictate terms and conditions unilaterally.  That black and white world you wish for doesn't exist.    

[Tiberius]

57 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

You just refuse to see the big picture when it comes to alliances and arrangements in the Middle East.  Like it or not you need to take into account how actions related to the Kurds will impact relations with Turkey.  A fellow NATO member which "grants" the U.S. access to their airspace and bases to run missions and host U.S. forces.  Pronounce and commit to undying support for the Kurds as you desire and Erdogan would have told the U.S. to get out.  That threat was clear.  And most likely signaling to ISIS forces under his "protection" that U.S. interests can be legitimate targets.  Or unleashing more migrants into Europe.  Its a balancing act where the U.S. isn't in the position to dictate terms and conditions unilaterally.  That black and white world you wish for doesn't exist.    

Turkey needs us more than we need them. Trump allowing them to ethnic cleanse our friends was horrendous and a clear signal to Moscow that we wouldn't lift a finger to help our friends 

  

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Turkey needs us more than we need them. Trump allowing them to ethnic cleanse our friends was horrendous and a clear signal to Moscow that we wouldn't lift a finger to help our friends 

  

 

LOL!  Yeah, that's why Putin didn't invade Ukraine until 2-1/2 years later and Joey was in office.  Can you guys be intellectually honest, at least?

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Turkey needs us more than we need them. Trump allowing them to ethnic cleanse our friends was horrendous and a clear signal to Moscow that we wouldn't lift a finger to help our friends 

So let me see if I can unknot your pretzel logic. Trump gave Putin the ‘signal’ and then Biden gave him the green light?  Wonderful! Don’t hurt yourself. 

[Tiberius]

41 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

LOL!  Yeah, that's why Putin didn't invade Ukraine until 2-1/2 years later and Joey was in office.  Can you guys be intellectually honest, at least?

When did he invade Chechnya? When did he invade Georgia? When did he attack Syria? 

 

Ya, but he was waiting for Biden? Oh brother 

[Doc]

31 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

When did he invade Chechnya? When did he invade Georgia? When did he attack Syria? 

 

Ya, but he was waiting for Biden? Oh brother 

 

What are you talking about?  None of those were under Trump.  He wasn't waiting for Biden so much as he was waiting for Trump to be out of office.  What part of that do you all not understand?