[Edit] Jon Gruden resigns over controversial emails discovered in WFT investigation

[frostbitmic]

I think I'll choose something more important to be offended about other than what one ####### says to, or about another #######.

[Warcodered]

29 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:

im confused,  does D Smith not have extremely large lips for a human being?   is simply pointing out a body feature racist now?    im extremely anti racist,  i dont particularly care for Gruden either,  but is this really something to get worked up about?   mbe i didnt catch the context of the statement.

How about everyone who doesn't seem to get it just Googles "racist black caricature" and see if you can't connect the dots.

[Mango]

3 hours ago, Fred Slacks said:

Well everyone on here is writing like they’ve never in their life said something offensive to another person ever. While I don’t condone racism, sexism, or any type of hate, I certainly am not naive enough to believe this type of conversation or negative comments aren’t made on a regular basis. It wasn’t so long ago where people would make racist jokes amongst each other in the locker room and would laugh at them. That doesn’t mean that it should have ever been that way but people are going to say crap like this.  
 

Another issue is should emails be that readily admissible?  Isn’t that similar to wire tapping?  If Gruden knew his emails would be read down the line I’m guessing he would have proof read it before hitting send. 
 

Ultimately it was a poor choice of words. My opinion is his excuse of rubber lips is BS. For me though I just get sick of everyone being so quick to judgement. Unfortunately it sounds really bad. For selfish reasons though I don’t want Gruden suspended because I think he makes the Raiders worse. 😂

A couple things:

 

I agree. Racist commentary was largely acceptable for a period of time, especially in locker rooms. Largely among white people like myself. I in my younger days have partaken, regrettably so. I do not consider myself racist. But I did say racist things. I am more concerned with no longer doing racist things than I am with being considered a racist if that makes sense. 
 

Gruden said a racist thing. Does it make him racist? Maybe? But it seems like Gruden and those similar are more concerned with telling you they are not racist, rather than just trying not to be a total dick. 
 

In regards to emails. If you are sending emails from or to a company email, you need to be prepared to defend it. Period. No different than mailing me a letter. Once you send it to me, it is mine. It’s 2021, almost 2022, this should be common knowledge and practice. Don’t put anything in writhing anywhere if you can’t or won’t defend it. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Mango

[Fred Slacks]

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

A couple things:

 

I agree. Racist commentary was largely acceptable for a period of time, especially in locker rooms. Largely among white people like myself. I in my younger days have partaken, regrettably so. I do not consider myself racist. But I did say racist things. I am more concerned with no longer doing racist things than I am with being considered a racist if that makes sense. 
 

Gruden said a racist thing. Does it make him racist? Maybe? But it seems like Gruden and those similar are more concerned with telling you they are not racist, rather than just trying not to be a total dick. 
 

In regards to emails. If you are sending emails from or two a company email, you need to be prepared to defend it. Period. No different than mailing me a letter. Once you send it to me, it is mine. It’s 2021, almost 2022, this should be common knowledge and practice. Don’t put anything in writhing anywhere if you can’t or won’t defend it. 

Totally agree. I guess my main point is if you’re a douche then you’re a douche. Gruden is a douche. It’s well known. I think what he said was most likely a douchey comment/racist slander. In no way do I think he’s racist. I think he just said it cause he’s a douche. I just think this is going to be blown up like Gruden is a Klan member when in reality he’s just an A hole and that’s already been established through years of watching him. 
 

my 2 cents and I realize I may get flamed. 

[bigduke6]

29 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

How about everyone who doesn't seem to get it just Googles "racist black caricature" and see if you can't connect the dots.

are we positive he was pointing it out for purely racial reasons?   or are we continuing the overreaction culture this society has thrown upon us?

was it worded in such a way that absolutely meant racism?   how bout i dont google anything.  how bout im well aware of racial caricatures and stereotypes.  

how bout im tired of people not being able to make factual statements without the conspiracy theorists rising up and advancing some cause they have,  just cuz they haz a feeling of some underlying meaning whether true or not.  

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by bigduke6

[Paulus]

On 10/8/2021 at 2:33 PM, flaz said:

Racist comments found during an NFL into the WFT

Mods, please remove if already posted somewhere 

I haven't found a link but our local ESPN radio just broke this, to my knowledge 

Man, I thought they dug up an email 10 year old Gruden sent when he was a kid. Would have made this story 100x better.

[uticaclub]

35 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

How about everyone who doesn't seem to get it just Googles "racist black caricature" and see if you can't connect the dots.

So we can't point out Italians wear leather jackets and drive late model Cadillacs and that Irish are drunks or they still fair game? Sterotypes exist for a reason. Grow up

Edited October 9, 2021 by uticaclub

[Paulus]

1 hour ago, bigduke6 said:

im confused,  does D Smith not have extremely large lips for a human being?   is simply pointing out a body feature racist now?    im extremely anti racist,  i dont particularly care for Gruden either,  but is this really something to get worked up about?   mbe i didnt catch the context of the statement.

 

Maybe, Goodell has small lips.

[What a Tuel]

41 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

How about everyone who doesn't seem to get it just Googles "racist black caricature" and see if you can't connect the dots.

 

If you find his comment to be a caricature then fine, you think it was offensive. Why does it go from a single offensive comment in which he was making fun of someone he disliked to labeling Gruden a racist with the implication that he hates black people, and should lose his job, and be shunned by society?

 

I realize you yourself may not have suggested the above, but plenty of outraged people are. 

 

Its mob justice that is applying punitive damages based on their perception of what he thinks at this point. There should be some legal protection for this. A mob of people should not be dispensing "justice"

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by What a Tuel

[Warcodered]

13 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:

are we positive he was pointing it out for purely racial reasons?   or are we continuing the overreaction culture this society has thrown upon us?

was it worded in such a way that absolutely meant racism?   how bout i dont google anything.  how bout im well aware of racial caricatures and stereotypes.  

how bout im tired of people not being able to make factual statements without the conspiracy theorists rising up and advancing some cause they have,  just cuz they haz a feeling of some underlying meaning whether true or not.  

 

So to summarize your theory is he was just casually commenting on the size of another man's lips....as one does?

16 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

So we can't point out Italians wear leather jackets and drive late model Cadillacs and that Irish are drunks or they still fair game? Sterotypes exist for a reason. Grow up

Yeah I'm going to disagree with you on the merits of stereotyping.

6 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

If you find his comment to be a caricature then fine, you think it was offensive. Why does it go from a single offensive comment in which he was making fun of someone he disliked to labeling Gruden a racist with the implication that he hates black people, and should lose his job, and be shunned by society?

 

I realize you yourself may not have suggested the above, but plenty of outraged people are. 

 

Its mob justice that is applying punitive damages based on their perception of what he thinks at this point. There should be some legal protection for this. A mob of people should not be dispensing "justice"

 

The mob has no authority, can ownership/the league make decisions in response to their feelings sure.

[What a Tuel]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

The mob has no authority, can ownership/the league make decisions in response to their feelings sure.

 

Thats a joke and you know it so long as profit driven companies find it easier to appease the mob than to go against them. At the end of the day its not justice though, it is punitive damages being assigned based on people's feelings.

[stuvian]

wokism wasn't yet invented in 2010

[klos63]

3 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

are we positive he was pointing it out for purely racial reasons?   or are we continuing the overreaction culture this society has thrown upon us?

was it worded in such a way that absolutely meant racism?   how bout i dont google anything.  how bout im well aware of racial caricatures and stereotypes.  

how bout im tired of people not being able to make factual statements without the conspiracy theorists rising up and advancing some cause they have,  just cuz they haz a feeling of some underlying meaning whether true or not.  

 

Let's not be blind here, would he make that comment about a white guy? Doubtful. I don't think Gruden will lose his job, I don't think he should. But 2011 isn't that long ago and it was a stupid thing to say and quite offensive. It seems that for some people, those getting offended by a terrible statement are the problem, not the person saying it.

It seems like the league and the Raiders are dealing with it quietly, internally, which is appropriate. People like you are the ones overreacting. This will play out and we'll get a resolution, then it's fair to debate. But to get upset because people don't react the way you want them to is pretty silly.

[bigduke6]

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

Let's not be blind here, would he make that comment about a white guy? Doubtful. I don't think Gruden will lose his job, I don't think he should. But 2011 isn't that long ago and it was a stupid thing to say and quite offensive. It seems that for some people, those getting offended by a terrible statement are the problem, not the person saying it.

It seems like the league and the Raiders are dealing with it quietly, internally, which is appropriate. People like you are the ones overreacting. This will play out and we'll get a resolution, then it's fair to debate. But to get upset because people don't react the way you want them to is pretty silly.

upset?  youre way overreaching there.......and  overreacting.....cmon.  lol ffs...

yer trying too hard.

Edited October 10, 2021 by bigduke6

[klos63]

36 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:

upset?  youre way overreaching there.......and  overreacting.....cmon.  lol ffs...

yer trying too hard.

well, compared to you, Yeah, I am trying hard.  You're just regurgitating the same old 'conspiracy theorists' BS which takes no amount of effort or brainpower.

[MJS]

Gruden was sending racist emails when he was 10?

 

That's pretty darn impressive, actually.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

I think Gruden is telling the truth here. 

 

It's pretty convoluted for Gruden to say that he's always called liars "rubber lips" so he's calling Smith a huge liar by saying he has Michelin lips. 

 

Gruden isn't smart enough to come up with an excuse like that. 

[JMF2006]

My GF has a set of thin lips and a set of fat lips

 

Does saying this make me a sexist?  

[todd]

15 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Kind of like pasty white people?

 

It is absurd that a comment can be twisted to mean Gruden secretly hates a specific race. Sometimes an insult is just an insult because he doesnt like the guy.

 

I don't think I wrote that Gruden hated black people. Read again. I said his comment was racist and disgusting. Usually arguments against racist tropes involve twisting things like you did.

[Billzgobowlin]

So what would make this racist is if all people of color have big lips which is not the case.  Was it a stupid thing to say?  Absolutely.  Was it racist?  I think that is a stretch from race baiters who try to make every statement racist

Edited October 10, 2021 by Billzgobowlin