Cole Beasley announces he will not be following Covid protocols, willing to retire

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, H2o said:

I also see where people getting vaccinated are still getting Covid. Three people I work with got the vax and still got Covid.

 

The point you seem to be missing is that the clinical data and your personal experience described here do not contradict each other. The clinical data doesn't say everyone who gets the vaccine will remain safe from contracting covid. It says that a very high percentage of patients that receive one of the 3 major covid vaccines will be immune from contracting the virus, or at least a severe case of the virus, about 2 weeks after being fully vaccinated. I don't know how else to explain this to you. It is one thing to say that you have personally made the choice not to receive the vaccine; it is another to say the vaccine is not at all effective in preventing the spread of covid. For the 2nd claim you need to provide some kind of material evidence. The burden of proof has already been met by scientists that say the vaccine is effective.

[dwight in philly]

Didnt read thru all.. JMHO,It is still a free country , although, not sure of how long, Beasley is within his Constitutional rights to decline the Vax. Move on.. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

15 minutes ago, H2o said:

I have seen people I know who have gotten the vax get sick as a dog, some for weeks on end. I've seen the news reports about perfectly healthy kids ending up with heart issues or blood clots after getting the shot. I have also been in close contact with people who've had Covid, while they've had it, and didn't get it. Most of the people I've known to get it have recovered from it. There have only been a couple who passed and they also had other serious health issues. I also see where people getting vaccinated are still getting Covid. Three people I work with got the vax and still got Covid. Since that's the case I don't see where we need it at all, having been healthy through this whole situation, so I won't take that chance. 

Then be honorable and continue to practice and enter society with restrictions.  

 

You could be a "Typhoid Mary"... How would you know?

[Beerball]

24 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I wonder if the league reached out to Beane after Beasley's twitter rant.  They don't want another Kaepernick type situation which could happen if the Bills cut him and nobody else signs him.  He'd have a case for collusion and the NFL doesn't want to shell out more money on a settlement like they did in Kaepernick's case.

There is zero reason to cut him. He indicated that he will retire unless things change.

[Bills from Napa]

Beasley is irresponsible at best with a deadly danger for his family and friends. Badly ill informed about vaccinations and the medical risks of COVID-19.  NOE he is just actin like a total JERK.  He is so so self-centered and uncaring. He is a cancer in the locker room too. FIRE him!!!!!!

[Royale with Cheese]

17 minutes ago, H2o said:

I have seen people I know who have gotten the vax get sick as a dog, some for weeks on end. I've seen the news reports about perfectly healthy kids ending up with heart issues or blood clots after getting the shot. I have also been in close contact with people who've had Covid, while they've had it, and didn't get it. Most of the people I've known to get it have recovered from it. There have only been a couple who passed and they also had other serious health issues. I also see where people getting vaccinated are still getting Covid. Three people I work with got the vax and still got Covid. Since that's the case I don't see where we need it at all, having been healthy through this whole situation, so I won't take that chance. 

I just wonder why people you know get sick as a dog for weeks when it’s pretty much unheard of.  If you’re sick for that long, I would surely think they would follow up with a doctor.  What did they say the doctor said?  

 

[Capco]

6 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

Beasley is within his Constitutional rights to decline the Vax. Move on.. 

 

There is currently no state-mandated compulsory vaccination for COVID, but if there were then he, nor anyone else, has any Constitutional right to refuse absent a genuine medical reason to do so.  American jurisprudence on this topic is over 100 years old and fairly settled. 

 

Individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.  Per Justice Harlan:  

 

"[I]n every well ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand"

 

and...

 

"Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own [liberty], whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others."

 

and finally...

 

"[In] extreme cases [for certain individuals] in a particular condition of . . . health, [the requirement of vaccination would be] cruel and inhuman[e], [in which case, courts would be empowered to interfere in order to] prevent wrong and oppression."

 

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905).

[nbbillsfan]

56 minutes ago, BuffaloBob said:

That is incorrect assumption on your part.  I ain't no intolerant liberal by any definition.  But what I do find hard to tolerate is willful ignorance and gullibility. 

This is incorrect reading comprehension on your part. I said “largely” not “exclusively”. I too am no intolerant liberal, but I am critical of Cole so I don’t see your point. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, ChasBB said:

That could be because the information may not be trustworthy or is at minimum at least challengeable.  Sometimes, our institutions fail us - wouldn't be the 1st time and won't be the last.  As citizens in a free society, we have the right (really, a duty) to demand proof and to challenge claims.  Do your own research.

 

Here's my thing with this.  Maybe it will make sense to you, maybe it doesn't.

 

Expertise matters!  It really does.

 

I'm an amateur football fan.  I've probably put more time and effort than I want to admit into understanding football: educating myself about different offensive and defensive formations, watching film, watching film breakdowns, reading about football.  Hundreds of hours.

 

But the harsh bottom line is, it doesn't matter how much research I do, I will never be on the same level of football understanding and football expertise as someone who has devoted years and years of their life to football - who has played it since Peewee, who has literally spent years doing the same stuff I've spent tens or even hundreds of hours doing.   I will never have the level of football understanding as an expert, a Jordan Poyer, a Josh Allen, a Cole Beasley, a Brian Daboll, an Orlando Pace.  I don't have their ability to quickly sift the gold from the dross when I look at an overwhelming pile of options for a defensive scheme against a given route combination.  I can be "taken in" or fooled by something I read that looks credible maybe but isn't really solid.  I have to work extra-hard to see stuff that a trained coach can spot instantly.

 

By the same token, people who lack a background of years studying science and carrying out research and assessing research study design and data are simply not going to be on the same footing as a trained scientist when it comes to evaluating scientific and medical data.  It's too easy to be taken in by the latest guy in a Youtube video without being instantly slammed in the face by the fallacies, because you don't have the background to twinge your bull#### detector - too easy to get lost in the weeds of recency bias from the media at "oh noes the vaccine side effects!" without remembering to ask "wait, how does this compare to the disease side effects for people my age?"

 

It's great to ask for proof and challenge claims, but if you don't have the background to assess whether or not something is actually a real issue (like the chap on here claiming that the vaccines were never tested in animals, which is total bull oney to people who understand the process of getting a clinical trial approved not to mention who know how to find the published preclinical studies), you can spend a lot of low-quality driving time spinning your wheels in the mud without really getting to "proof" and "challenge" in a meaningful way.  You can come up with a meaningful assessment that shows it, but the time and effort you need to is perhaps way greater than you think.

 

It's sort of the equivalent of Joe Sofa Spud on here opining that Player X is "worthless" or "sucks".  Well he's still on a professional football team coached by professional football coaches, maybe they know something you don't. 

 

 

 

[BigAl2526]

14 hours ago, KennyDavisEyes said:

I appreciate your thoughtfulness
 

What about folks w antibodies?  Many 20 & 30 somethings have already had the disease and have recovered.

 

Perhaps Cole & other Buffalo Bills got infected after the season.

Getting COVID may give you some protection against the  Delta variant, but percentages are not available on the internet and it may not have been studied.  We know the vaccines are effective against the Delta variant. especially the two shot vaccines (if you get both shots).  Persons with two shots of the Pfizer vaccine are 88% protected.

[dwight in philly]

9 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

There is currently no state-mandated compulsory vaccination for COVID, but if there were then he, nor anyone else, has any Constitutional right to refuse absent a genuine medical reason to do so.  American jurisprudence on this topic is over 100 years old and fairly settled. 

 

Individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.  Per Justice Harlan:  

 

"[I]n every well ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand"

 

and...

 

"Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own [liberty], whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others."

 

and finally...

 

"[In] extreme cases [for certain individuals] in a particular condition of . . . health, [the requirement of vaccination would be] cruel and inhuman[e], [in which case, courts would be empowered to interfere in order to] prevent wrong and oppression."

 

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905).

Your point?? 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

It's sort of the equivalent of Joe Sofa Spud on here opining that Player X is "worthless" or "sucks". 

 

That's all I see...a bunch of Joe Sofa Spuds!!!!

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Here's my thing with this.  Maybe it will make sense to you, maybe it doesn't.

 

Expertise matters!  It really does.

 

I'm an amateur football fan.  I've probably put more time and effort than I want to admit into understanding football: educating myself about different offensive and defensive formations, watching film, watching film breakdowns, reading about football.  Hundreds of hours.

 

But the harsh bottom line is, it doesn't matter how much research I do, I will never be on the same level of football understanding and football expertise as someone who has devoted years and years of their life to football - who has played it since Peewee, who has literally spent years doing the same stuff I've spent tens or even hundreds of hours doing.   I will never have the level of football understanding as an expert, a Jordan Poyer, a Josh Allen, a Cole Beasley, a Brian Daboll, an Orlando Pace.  I don't have their ability to quickly sift the gold from the dross when I look at an overwhelming pile of opinions about the merits of a defensive formation or a route combination.  I can be "taken in" or fooled by something that looks credible maybe but isn't really solid.  I have to work extra-hard to see stuff that a trained coach can spot instantly.

 

By the same token, people who lack a background of years studying science and carrying out research and assessing research study design and data are not going to be on the same footing as a trained scientist when it comes to evaluating scientific and medical data.  It's too easy to be taken in by the latest guy in a Youtube video without being able to pick out the fallacies because you don't have the background to twinge your bull#### detector - or to get lost in the weeds of recency bias at "oh noes the vaccine side effects!" without remembering to ask "how does this compare to the disease side effects?"

 

It's great to ask for proof and challenge claims, but if you don't have the background to assess whether or not something is actually a real issue (like the chap on here claiming that the vaccines were never tested in animals, which is total bull oney to people who understand the process of getting a clinical trial approved not to mention who know how to find the published preclinical studies), you can spend a lot of low-quality driving time spinning your wheels in the mud without really getting to "proof" and "challenge" in a meaningful way.  You can come up with a meaningful assessment that shows it, but the time and effort you need to is perhaps way greater than you think.

 

It's sort of the equivalent of Joe Sofa Spud on here opining that Player X is "worthless" or "sucks".  Well he's still on a professional football team coached by professional football coaches, maybe they know something you don't. 

 

 

 

Thank you for writing this.  I have been involved in both clinical and basic science research for over 40 years.  The loss of 600k people plus the unknown number of individuals with long term complications from Covid are a tragedy.  And another is how this pandemic has exposed the ignorance of our society to basic concepts of science.  Some of this is simply because they have not had the education, but what is truly frightening is the willful ignorance of people to just discount things like facts and data.  

[YoloinOhio]

I’ve discovered since this thread started that I have a higher tolerance for alcohol than I do for people.

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

57 pages?????

Really?????

Must be a bunch of independently wealthy MoFos on this here site, got nothin better to do😜

 

 

meh, hasn't even reached Clowney 3rd thread volume yet..,..

[Capco]

3 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

Your point?? 

 

My point is that Beasley does not have a Constitutional right to decline a state-mandated compulsory vaccination in lieu of a medical reason.  

 

I figured it was pretty clear.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

27 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

Didnt read thru all.. JMHO,It is still a free country , although, not sure of how long, Beasley is within his Constitutional rights to decline the Vax. Move on.. 

 

There is no State or local mandate at present to take a Covid-19 vaccine, nor is his employer requiring it.  Therefore, this isn't a Constitutional issue at present.

 

Second, if there were a State or local mandate, the 10th amendment to the constitution has been held to apply:

 “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”  The constitution does not generally delegate public health authority to the Federal gov't, therefore it is held to lie with State and local governments.

 

Third, the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of State and local vaccine requirements multiple times.  This highlights some key cases.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/where-does-the-governments-right-to-require-vaccinations-come-from/

[Reader]

34 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

Didnt read thru all.. JMHO,It is still a free country , although, not sure of how long, Beasley is within his Constitutional rights to decline the Vax. Move on.. 

 

How much did you read of the thread? Any?

 

Beasley has the right to decline the vaccination and he has the right to experience the consequences from his employer for doing so. The ire with Beasley is that he seems to want to exercise his right, but get upset/outraged if others exercise their rights in response to his right.

[Mike in Horseheads]

26 minutes ago, Beerball said:

There is zero reason to cut him. He indicated that he will retire unless things change.

Correct, let him quit, saves cap space

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

I actually don't believe it helps or protects, but on the contrary I don't want to take the chance of self inflicted harm that could come from it. Either be that to me or at my hands to my children. The question is posed for those who believes it does make them "safe" from the effects. I'd rather take my chances with me and my children having remained healthy through this entire ordeal. 

 

You don't believe it protects?  Hmmmm

 

 

1 hour ago, H2o said:

We've had every other vaccine. The ones that have been around with years of data behind them. I'm not completely "anti-vax" as people try to label. But we never get flu shots and we're not getting this. The possible heart issues, the possible blood clots, the sickness you get from it, as well as other things I have seen. We're healthy and have been through all of this. The shot is unnecessary to me/us. Not doing it. 

 

It's literally 1 in a million.

 

You should never leave your house if you won't even accept those odds.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

That's all I see...a bunch of Joe Sofa Spuds!!!!

 

There are some people here who have serious scientific chops.  I would probably be considered one of them by most.  I think it's pretty clear who the others are.  And if you can't tell, well, that kind of highlights the first problem with "do your own research": deciding what sources and data are credible.

[BigAl2526]

14 hours ago, cantankerous said:

Healthy people don’t need vaccinated from a virus that doesn’t really make them sick. These are professional athletes in great physical condition. They don’t need the vaccine. You can still acquire and spread the virus even if vaccinated. 🙄All of these restrictions make no sense. Anyone with common sense knows that. 

A healthy Tommy Sweeney got Myocarditis as a complication of COVID and couldn't even exercise for months.  It is not just about your own health, it is about the health of those you come in contact with.  A widespread infection rate increases the likelihood of new and nastier variants developing, like t he Delta variant from India.  And getting vaccinated reduces to almost zero the chances of you spreading the virus to others.  I'll refrain from comments about common sense, but you are wrong in virtually every point you attempted to make. 

Here's a link to check out on vaccinated people spreading the COVID virus.  Spoiler alert:  They don't.

 

Do people vaccinated against COVID shed coronavirus to others? | Miami Herald

[Capco]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

It's great to ask for proof and challenge claims, but if you don't have the background to assess whether or not something is actually a real issue (like the chap on here claiming that the vaccines were never tested in animals, which is total bull oney to people who understand the process of getting a clinical trial approved not to mention who know how to find the published preclinical studies), you can spend a lot of low-quality driving time spinning your wheels in the mud without really getting to "proof" and "challenge" in a meaningful way.  You can come up with a meaningful assessment that shows it, but the time and effort you need to is perhaps way greater than you think.

 

I think it's also worth pointing out that science is falsifiable (particularly the hard sciences but also the social ones).  Scientists and experts are constantly challenging the claims of others in their fields.  The entire peer-review process and the scientific method is centered around that.  Accountability is built into the system itself. 

 

In fact, scientists love being wrong when new information becomes available that invalidates something prior, because it means they have expanded our knowledge about the universe.  

 

That's another reason why I have so much faith in the expertise of others.  A true expert is never satisfied with the status quo and always pushing the limits of what we know.  

[BigAl2526]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article252023058.html

[Process]

Saying you aren't getting the vaccine because of potential blood clots or heart issues is basically saying they aren't getting the vaccine and have no valid reason or idea why.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, Process said:

Saying you aren't getting the vaccine because of potential blood clots or heart issues is basically saying they aren't getting the vaccine and have no valid reason or idea why.

Not going to the car wash because of shark attacks.

[Mr. WEO]

37 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

Didnt read thru all.. JMHO,It is still a free country , although, not sure of how long, Beasley is within his Constitutional rights to decline the Vax. Move on.. 

 

 

I'll give you the Cliff Notes:

 

In this thread (so far):

 

No one has argued that it's not still a free country.

 

No one has argued that Beasley has no right to decline any vaccine.

 

 

But here's one for you: in this free country (outside of New Hampshire), are you within your constitutional rights to refuse to wear a seatbelt without consequence?  

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Capco said:

 

I think it's also worth pointing out that science is falsifiable (particularly the hard sciences but also the social ones).  Scientists and experts are constantly challenging the claims of others in their fields.  The entire peer-review process and the scientific method is centered around that.  Accountability is built into the system itself. 

 

In fact, scientists love being wrong when new information becomes available that invalidates something prior, because it means they have expanded our knowledge about the universe.  

 

That's another reason why I have so much faith in the expertise of others.  A true expert is never satisfied with the status quo and always pushing the limits of what we know.  

 

Thank you.  Yes.

 

 

It's a question I ask frequently: "What evidence would you accept to change your mind on this?" 

Because if the answer is "None, really", then it's not science.

[BigAl2526]

2 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

I think it's also worth pointing out that science is falsifiable (particularly the hard sciences but also the social ones).  Scientists and experts are constantly challenging the claims of others in their fields.  The entire peer-review process and the scientific method is centered around that.  Accountability is built into the system itself. 

 

In fact, scientists love being wrong when new information becomes available that invalidates something prior, because it means they have expanded our knowledge about the universe.  

 

That's another reason why I have so much faith in the expertise of others.  A true expert is never satisfied with the status quo and always pushing the limits of what we know.  

Questioning previous conclusions and doing new research is different from just throwing out the available science because you don't like it.

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

Damn.. here i thought this was  a Board about The Bills , and the daily comings and goings .. not a self -righteous platform for blowhards .. ok go ahead suspend me.. 

 

LOL

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Capco said:

 

I think it's also worth pointing out that science is falsifiable (particularly the hard sciences but also the social ones).  Scientists and experts are constantly challenging the claims of others in their fields.  The entire peer-review process and the scientific method is centered around that.  Accountability is built into the system itself. 

 

In fact, scientists love being wrong when new information becomes available that invalidates something prior, because it means they have expanded our knowledge about the universe.  

 

That's another reason why I have so much faith in the expertise of others.  A true expert is never satisfied with the status quo and always pushing the limits of what we know.  

Thank you as well for writing this.  Again over 40 years in research, and I sit on an FDA advisory panel (not Covid related).  People criticize response to Covid, Fauci, etc.  because they have no idea of what science entails.  We are trained as scientists to continually experiment and analyze data as new results come in.  As new data is obtained, theories change.  That is precisely how science is supposed to work.  
 

Scientists and clinicians dedicate their lives to improving the health of society.  To that end, we rigorously evaluate each other’s work.  I review dozens of papers a year for publication and reject the majority because of weaknesses in study design.  The FDA panel I sit on does exhaustive reviews of new products and devices to ensure they do what they say and won’t introduce harm.  
 

Those who are against vaccines and other preventive measures fall back on unwarranted criticisms.  It gets ridiculous.

[Mike in Horseheads]

7 minutes ago, Process said:

Saying you aren't getting the vaccine because of potential blood clots or heart issues is basically saying they aren't getting the vaccine and have no valid reason or idea why.

Because Tucker and Sean told them not to.

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

May I ask what you find that I  offered an opinion on relevant to  your nonsense 

 

 

wut?

[KennyDavisEyes]

9 minutes ago, Process said:

Saying you aren't getting the vaccine because of potential blood clots or heart issues is basically saying they aren't getting the vaccine and have no valid reason or idea why.

This isn’t true.  What if you have a recent infection and are young.

 

My wife was just in to get her birth control prescription updated.

 

Her Dr. said she didn’t see any need for her to get the vaccine bc she is young, healthy, and was infected in Dec.

 

The idea that there is no nuance here shows how much tunnel vision many many ppl (on the left) have about the freedom of choice that exists here.

 

At this point in time those that want the vaccine have it.  Those that don’t don’t - for now let’s get back to normal and then let’s sit back and wait for the next thing the CCP has to offer the world.

[JoPoy88]

10 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

Damn.. here i thought this was  a Board about The Bills , and the daily comings and goings .. not a self -righteous platform for blowhards .. ok go ahead suspend me.. 

 

Then blame Beasley. And not everyone trying to educate you is a blowhard. 

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, KennyDavisEyes said:

This isn’t true.  What if you have a recent infection and are young.

 

My wife was just in to get her birth control prescription updated.

 

Her Dr. said she didn’t see any need for her to get the vaccine bc she is young, healthy, and was infected in Dec.

 

The idea that there is no nuance here shows how much tunnel vision many many ppl (on the left) have about the freedom of choice that exists here.

 

At this point in time those that want the vaccine have it.  Those that don’t don’t - for now let’s get back to normal and then let’s sit back and wait for the next thing the CCP has to offer the world.

If she has been infected that is one thing.  Data is still being obtained on how long immunity lasts in those that had contracted the virus.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’ve discovered since this thread started that I have a higher tolerance for alcohol than I do for people.

 

What Took You So Long?

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, KennyDavisEyes said:

This isn’t true.  What if you have a recent infection and are young.

 

My wife was just in to get her birth control prescription updated.

 

Her Dr. said she didn’t see any need for her to get the vaccine bc she is young, healthy, and was infected in Dec.

 

The idea that there is no nuance here shows how much tunnel vision many many ppl (on the left) have about the freedom of choice that exists here.

 

At this point in time those that want the vaccine have it.  Those that don’t don’t - for now let’s get back to normal and then let’s sit back and wait for the next thing the CCP has to offer the world.

Yep.  Let’s get back to normal.  Best way to do that is by vaccinations.

[KennyDavisEyes]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yep.  Let’s get back to normal.  Best way to do that is by vaccinations.

Sure, for ppl that want them.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, Process said:

Saying you aren't getting the vaccine because of potential blood clots or heart issues is basically saying they aren't getting the vaccine and have no valid reason or idea why.

 

17 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Not going to the car wash because of shark attacks.

 

I really can't quite agree with this.

 

There's been a lot of recent airplay in the media and on social media about blood clots and heart issues after vaccination.

 

The problem is it's covered in a sensational alarmist way, and fails to put the information in context - How does the frequency of these side effects (in a relevant population) compare to frequency of side effects from getting the covid-19 virus?

 

And the data coming in is consistently that the side effects are less common from the vaccine than from the disease including in people <30 or young athletes.

 

I think some people believe they are making a rational and logical decision based upon facts, but are working from an incomplete or one-sided data set.