Daunte Wright Shooting

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Backintheday544 said:

Okay! Great so we start with you not knowing stats based on this comment since you don’t know what per capita means. Thank you for demonstrating your ignorance. That’s a brave choice. Bravo!

 

So per capita means per person. So in the prior discussion we looked at welfare dollars per person.

 

This looks at shootings per race.

 

To make this easier to understand, you have a deck of 52 cards. 26 red and 26 black. If you pick a card you have a 50 percent chance of of getting black or red. Over a large enough sample (like say if every cop in the US picked a card, you’d expect 50 percent red and 50 percent black).

However, when these cops actually pull a card over a large sample, we find they pull a black card 2.6 times more than than they do a red card. Now if you were a critical thinker, you’d say hey wait that doesn’t make sense, we have an even population yet we’re pulling the black card at a higher frequency than the red card. Why is that?

 

Now to apply that to race in the US. White to black isn’t a 50/50 distribution. So we wouldn’t expect to sample US police shootings and see a 50/50 break down. We should expect to see a breakdown similar to population. But we don’t. We see a breakdown that skews more non-white than white based on population than we should see.

 

So I applaud you for acknowledging you don’t know statistics. I acknowledge this is a really quick example of how they would, so if my fellow posters see flaws in the analysis feel free to point them out so we can help educate Blitz!. So, maybe check out an online class and you can learn a little more than I can post in a quick post!

 

 

 

Lol what?  I know exactly what it means but thanks for clarifying.

 

I meant that I was expecting you to come right back with that "higher percentages of Blacks blah blah there are more whites in America blah blah."

 

Yes I understand this.  Unfortunately Team Lockdown doesn't but that's for another thread.

 

Your analysis is flawed.

 

Proportionate to the population.  It's not like a deck of cards you should flip and see something something.  

 

2 things.  

 

1.  68% of those deaths were white.  They are 77% of the population.  That doesn't scream immune/protected/privileged class to me.  So can you explain this?  

 

But 34% of those shot were Black and they are 13% of the population.....however...

 

2.  Over half the homicides in the U.S. are committed by minorities.  Can you explain this?  Shouldn't it be more proportionate?

 

Oh and males.  It's almost entirely males.  By your proportionate logic....where are the females?  Aren't we woke enough to ask why can't women commit more violent crimes?  

 

I'm just making a point that this is more complex then wanting to boil it down to proportionate to population.  Which as I said, was exactly what I was expecting to hear from you.  

 

Are there racist cops....yes.  Is racism real....yes I can strongly say yes because of who we just elected president.  

 

 

[Backintheday544]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Lol what?  I know exactly what it means but thanks for clarifying.

 

I meant that I was expecting you to come right back with that "higher percentages of Blacks blah blah there are more whites in America blah blah."

 

Yes I understand this.  Unfortunately Team Lockdown doesn't but that's for another thread.

 

Your analysis is flawed.

 

Proportionate to the population.  It's not like a deck of cards you should flip and see something something.  

 

2 things.  

 

1.  68% of those deaths were white.  They are 77% of the population.  That doesn't scream immune/protected/privileged class to me.  So can you explain this?  

 

But 34% of those shot were Black and they are 13% of the population.....however...

 

2.  Over half the homicides in the U.S. are committed by minorities.  Can you explain this?  Shouldn't it be more proportionate?

 

Oh and males.  It's almost entirely males.  By your proportionate logic....where are the females?  Aren't we woke enough to ask why can't women commit more violent crimes?  

 

I'm just making a point that this is more complex then wanting to boil it down to proportionate to population.  Which as I said, was exactly what I was expecting to hear from you.  

 

Are there racist cops....yes.  Is racism real....yes I can strongly say yes because of who we just elected president.  

 

 

Thank you! This is exactly why that other guy sucks! This is well thought out and an awesome response

[oldmanfan]

7 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

 

Serious question—when was the last time you started your day and your only goal was to get through it at work, stop at your favorite pizzeria on the way home so you could sit with your wife and watch Season 4 episode 3 of Longmire on Netflix?   And when was that plan last derailed a person you have never met before, doing the unexpected and physical, absolutely 100% committed to not going with you and you weren’t sure whether he was on drugs, going for a weapon and or about to drive off and hit a school bus full of children, or a mom running her youngest child off to school because the child refused to put  her new shoes on and catch the bus.  And when was the last time you thought to yourself—-STOP, we can just subdue this unknown party intent on doing something other than complying by engaging in hand to hand physical contact because when we do, no bones will crack, no ACLs will be torn, no teeth will be knocked out, no cuts will be opened even though this guy is 15 years younger than the rest of us and full of adrenaline with likely far more stamina than the three of us combined.  
 

The second best thing that could have happened to this young man was that the officer actually tased him and put the incident to bed.  The first was that he could have complied and no lives would have been lost or ruined.   
 

Training is always an answer and never a bad idea.   Unfortunately, when people are involved, sometimes dumb, bad ***** just happens across the board and the result is tragic.  

First Longmire is great.  My wife and I watched the entire series.  Second, I don’t experience what you describe because I’m not a cop.  What you describe is why I am pro-police; they have an impossibly difficult job.  But I be am also not a black man, and those black friends that I talk to feel they are in a no win situation when stopped by the police.  They feel they are at risk of getting shot by the police because of their skin color.  You may not understand that; I don’t.  But just as I am not in the position of the police, I am not in the position of a black man.  
 

Also, you and others assume that the person in question was on drugs.  That in itself shows some bias; that the black man must be on drugs.  The kid that was shot the other day I don’t think was pulled over for that.  But when you have 4 officers surrounding one guy, and they can’t subdue him without using a weapon, that to me indicates that more training is needed.   You, I and another person may have more difficulty subduing someone; several trained police should not.

[aristocrat]

9 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I am all for law enforcement.  I am pro-police.  But someone needs to explain why you have multiple police officers around one guy and they can’t take him down or subdue him without resorting to a taser.  There needs to be better training of police in physically and emotionally handling such events.  And how a 20 some year veteran cannot tell she’s not holding a taser?

 

Friends that are black tell me they are afraid.  They are scared if they sit in the car and try to comply they’ll get shot, if they obey and exit they’ll get shot.  That has to change.

So this kid put a gun in a girls face two years ago to rob her of rent money. That was his warrant.  He then was caught with a gun again.  Are your friends doing these sort of things or hanging out with guys doing these things?  If not it doesn’t seem like they have too much to worry about.  
 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

First Longmire is great.  My wife and I watched the entire series.  Second, I don’t experience what you describe because I’m not a cop.  What you describe is why I am pro-police; they have an impossibly difficult job.  But I be am also not a black man, and those black friends that I talk to feel they are in a no win situation when stopped by the police.  They feel they are at risk of getting shot by the police because of their skin color.  You may not understand that; I don’t.  But just as I am not in the position of the police, I am not in the position of a black man.  
 

Also, you and others assume that the person in question was on drugs.  That in itself shows some bias; that the black man must be on drugs.  The kid that was shot the other day I don’t think was pulled over for that.  But when you have 4 officers surrounding one guy, and they can’t subdue him without using a weapon, that to me indicates that more training is needed.   You, I and another person may have more difficulty subduing someone; several trained police should not.

I didn’t assume he was on drugs, I said the officers have absolutely no idea why he was compliant and cooperative until suddenly he wasn’t, and things changed dramatically and physically.  My only thought in that regard is that until then, a benign and likely everyday occurrence for the officers suddenly becomes much, much more potentially dangerous.  that changes everything.  That does not relieve the officer of the responsibility of acting professionally, following her training and discharging the appropriate weapon, but it certainly adds context to story beyond ‘shot for driving’.  
 

I respect the concerns of people that worry about being shot for simply being black, and you’re right, I cannot possibly walk in their shoes.  I only know that just like the concerns they’ve expressed, it’s completely understandable and absolutely fair for law enforcement officers to be very concerned about every interaction they have with people, and that just based on the human condition, there will be times when the outcome is tragic.  The difference of course is when the officer is the victim, and the attempt to subdue results in their death or serious injury, it’s not all that newsworthy because that sort of tragedy doesn’t sell. 
 

We can agree on Longmire though.  That’s enough for today. 
 

@aristocrat posted and reminded me of a point I missed.  While I laid out several reasons the officers might be concerned about his sudden attempt to flee, you jumped to the conclusion that because the young man was on black, that I assumed he was on drugs (most drug users I have known in my life have been white, by a long shot).  
 

My assumption from the video is this—if the situation and conditions were exactly the same, but the subject looked like my 21 year old son, the result is the same.  The police do not pat him on the back, do not apologize for bothering him, and when he attempts to flee, they do not stand back and marvel at the spunk and chutzpah of the young man as he drives away. 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[SoTier]

9 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I am all for law enforcement.  I am pro-police.  But someone needs to explain why you have multiple police officers around one guy and they can’t take him down or subdue him without resorting to a taser.  There needs to be better training of police in physically and emotionally handling such events.  And how a 20 some year veteran cannot tell she’s not holding a taser?

 

Friends that are black tell me they are afraid.  They are scared if they sit in the car and try to comply they’ll get shot, if they obey and exit they’ll get shot.  That has to change.

 

BINGO!!!   The three cases in Wisconsin in the last year (Floyd in Minneapolis, Blake in Kenosha, Wright in Brooklyn Center) were NOT LEOs confronting armed men fleeing a shooting or something.   Blake and Wright were traffic stops and Floyd was stopped because of a complaint about a counterfeit twenty dollar bill.  In Virginia, Army LT Caron Nazario was threatened and pepper sprayed in a traffic stop.   Those are just some of high profile cases in the last year.

 

Police are NOT treating white Americans the same way as they treat black Americans in traffic stops.  That's the striking thing about these incidents in the last year.  The incidents -- and the others that happened just in the last year that I haven't mentioned -- have all stemmed from traffic stops or petty crimes that the police escalated when they had other options. 

 

No amount of "liberal media bias" could possibly suppress news about the police regularly confronting white men during traffic stops with the excessive and too often deadly force that they confront black men.   White people wouldn't stand for it.  White politicians wouldn't stand for it.  

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

27 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

BINGO!!!   The three cases in Wisconsin in the last year (Floyd in Minneapolis, Blake in Kenosha, Wright in Brooklyn Center) were NOT LEOs confronting armed men fleeing a shooting or something.   Blake and Wright were traffic stops and Floyd was stopped because of a complaint about a counterfeit twenty dollar bill.  In Virginia, Army LT Caron Nazario was threatened and pepper sprayed in a traffic stop.   Those are just some of high profile cases in the last year.

 

Police are NOT treating white Americans the same way as they treat black Americans in traffic stops.  That's the striking thing about these incidents in the last year.  The incidents -- and the others that happened just in the last year that I haven't mentioned -- have all stemmed from traffic stops or petty crimes that the police escalated when they had other options. 

 

No amount of "liberal media bias" could possibly suppress news about the police regularly confronting white men during traffic stops with the excessive and too often deadly force that they confront black men.   White people wouldn't stand for it.  White politicians wouldn't stand for it.  

 

There are two sides to this coin when it comes to police encounters.  People, including whites, that engage in confrontations with the police during encounters or traffic stops suffer the same fate.  Maybe people that cooperate with the police when they get stopped, don't engage in physical confrontations, and don't have outstanding arrest warrants don't end up getting injured or shot.   Maybe we should consider the concept of assigning some responsibility to the suspect rather than the innocent victim model which has become the popular view?  I've been stopped by the cops about a dozen times in my life and my first thought is to make sure I come out of it alive. 

 

If you want to suggest we can ever develop some kind of policing model where the margin of error in the population of all traffic stops is zero then that's not possible.  No system or process has a zero error rate.  Anywhere.

Edited April 14, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Unforgiven]

     Before I go full postal starting a new 'can we talk about' thread,  the elephant in the room

should be addressed.  Maybe, and I'm just throwing stuff out there, maybe people should stop

committing crimes and stop resisting arrest or fleeing when confronted by the police?

Edited April 14, 2021 by Unforgiven

[Tiberius]

Doesn't a police hand gun have a safety on it that has to be hit before they can fire? 

3 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

     Before I go full postal starting a new 'can we talk about' thread,  the elephant in the room

should be addressed.  Maybe, and I'm just throwing stuff out there, maybe people should stop

committing crimes and stop resisting arrest or fleeing when confronted by the police?

So its ok if cops just execute anyone that runs? 

[LeviF]

8 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

2.  Over half the homicides in the U.S. are committed by minorities.  Can you explain this?  Shouldn't it be more proportionate?

 

 

Anyone who talks about disproportionality in police shootings with regard to race who doesn't also mention this well-documented fact (not to mention homicides of police officers) is being deliberately deceptive in the interest of maintaining a narrative.  They really aren't worth engaging with on any significant level.

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Doesn't a police hand gun have a safety on it that has to be hit before they can fire? 

 

 

Not if they carry a Glock.  No external safety.

[Tiberius]

Just now, LeviF91 said:

 

Anyone who talks about disproportionality in police shootings with regard to race who doesn't also mention this well-documented fact (not to mention homicides of police officers) is being deliberately deceptive in the interest of maintaining a narrative.  They really aren't worth engaging with on any significant level.

 

Not if they carry a Glock.  No external safety.

Well, that's not right. 

[LeviF]

Just now, Tiberius said:

Well, that's not right. 

 

Frankly I'm not sure how an external safety would help anyway.  Cops that carry handguns with external safeties are trained to switch it to "fire" from "safe" during the draw.  If your gun is out of the holster it should be ready to fire.  Even drawing down is considered use of force and needs to be justified as such.  If you're drawing your firearm and not switching the safety to "fire" you're essentially using your gun as a threat instead of what it is: a deadly weapon.

[SoCal Deek]

What is this discussion even about? Do you all really think that every single Minnesota police officer hasn’t been through an entire year of nearly daily training, about race relations and arrest procedures following George Floyd, and all that followed? Really? Come on people! 

So what’s the solution? How about stop resisting arrest when officers are putting you in handcuffs?! When does the general public get some training?!!!

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What is this discussion even about? Do you all really think that every single Minnesota police officer hasn’t been through an entire year of nearly daily training, about race relations and arrest procedures following George Floyd, and all that followed? Really? Come on people! 

So what’s the solution? How about stop resisting arrest when officers are putting you in handcuffs?! When does the general public get some training?!!!

I agree , but again what the black community sees is that even if they did just comply they might still get shot.  I might think that’s crazy but I’m not black.  If you or I drive a car where the license plate isn’t visible we get pulled over, the police see it in the window and tell us to have a nice day.  The black soldier the other day has guns pointed at him.  
 

Go spoil the new grandchild!

[LeviF]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

What is this discussion even about? Do you all really think that every single Minnesota police officer hasn’t been through an entire year of nearly daily training, about race relations and arrest procedures following George Floyd, and all that followed? Really? Come on people! 

So what’s the solution? How about stop resisting arrest when officers are putting you in handcuffs?! When does the general public get some training?!!!

 

Of the 1000 people killed by police officers every year, an extremely small fraction of those are unjustified.  Daunte Wright is one of about five black men who get killed without justification by a police officer per year.  Basically the odds of being struck by lightning. 

 

It's impossible to "do better" in this regard.  It's down to the level of a freakish act of nature.  And yet it's the core justification for overturning the way our criminal justice system works.  The "progressive" movement isn't one of science or facts - it's one of emotional manipulation.  Which is why it's working.

 

When local police are abolished or defunded, they won't be replaced by social workers.  This is a bait and switch.  Local police will be replaced by national goon squads that bully normal people over what we would consider trivial stuff.  This is what the progressive movement actually wants, because local police and sheriff's departments are some of the last institutions that wield violence outside of the national regime's control.  The regime doesn't actually want to prevent police shootings, they want to employ them against their chosen targets.  

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, LeviF91 said:

 

Of the 1000 people killed by police officers every year, an extremely small fraction of those are unjustified.  Daunte Wright is one of about five black men who get killed without justification by a police officer per year.  Basically the odds of being struck by lightning. 

 

It's impossible to "do better" in this regard.  It's down to the level of a freakish act of nature.  And yet it's the core justification for overturning the way our criminal justice system works.  The "progressive" movement isn't one of science or facts - it's one of emotional manipulation.  Which is why it's working.

 

When local police are abolished or defunded, they won't be replaced by social workers.  This is a bait and switch.  Local police will be replaced by national goon squads that bully normal people over what we would consider trivial stuff.  This is what the progressive movement actually wants, because local police and sheriff's departments are some of the last institutions that wield violence outside of the national regime's control.  The regime doesn't actually want to prevent police shootings, they want to employ them against their chosen targets.  

Go farther than tha. Look at how blacks are arrested, incarcerated and have records for drug crimes than whites. It's not just the shootings, its everything. But hey, pass it off as an emotional hissy fit, sure. 

[LeviF]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

Go farther than tha. Look at how blacks are arrested, incarcerated and have records for drug crimes than whites. It's not just the shootings, its everything. But hey, pass it off as an emotional hissy fit, sure. 

 

I'm not saying disparities don't exist - I'm saying that the disparities will simply be switched.  Not based on race (I don't think that the disparities in violent or drug crime, for example, can be actually explained by race in a statistically significant way), but based on power and control over, again, what we mostly consider trivial at the moment. 

 

Look at the sheer number of police officers dispatched to shut down that church in Canada.  Not to turn this into a COVID discussion, but 200 cops for one church?  That's insanity.

[aristocrat]

11 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Go farther than tha. Look at how blacks are arrested, incarcerated and have records for drug crimes than whites. It's not just the shootings, its everything. But hey, pass it off as an emotional hissy fit, sure. 

 

and who is responsible for those laws?  your boy joe biden.  congrats

[SoCal Deek]

54 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Go farther than tha. Look at how blacks are arrested, incarcerated and have records for drug crimes than whites. It's not just the shootings, its everything. But hey, pass it off as an emotional hissy fit, sure. 

And what does any of that have to do with this incident? Answer: NOTHING!

Edited April 14, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[Buffalo_Stampede]

13 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Secession is imminent.  

 

I'm good with it.  

 

What the hell do people think the logical conclusion of this leftist insanity is? 

 

 

Meanwhile 

 

 

There's a lack of trust. Most people on this board either lived through the Civil Rights movement or their parents did. It wasn't very long ago black people were targets. There is a trauma there. It's not something you can just say forget about. 

 

There is systemic racism that is slowly dying off, very slowly. The rise of social media has added gasoline to the issues that remain. It's going to take generations to die off before black people can trust those in law enforcement. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Go farther than tha. Look at how blacks are arrested, incarcerated and have records for drug crimes than whites. It's not just the shootings, its everything. But hey, pass it off as an emotional hissy fit, sure. 

 

16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And what does any of that have to do with this incident? Answer: NOTHING!

Link to FBI statistics for 2018 arrests by racial classification.

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/topic-pages/tables/table-43

 

[SoCal Deek]

10 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

Link to FBI statistics for 2018 arrests by racial classification.

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/topic-pages/tables/table-43

 

Of course the problem with quoting general statistics is that it doesn't take into account each individual incident, like the one we all just witnessed from the body-cam and we're all talking about here.  That poor kid would be alive today, doing whatever he would normally be doing, if he had just complied with the peaceful and professional commands of the Police Officers.  It isn't hard. Enough of this nonsense! 

[Melon]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

 

and who is responsible for those laws?  your boy joe biden.  congrats

 

Thank you for not unchecking the box

[Boatdrinks]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

BINGO!!!   The three cases in Wisconsin in the last year (Floyd in Minneapolis, Blake in Kenosha, Wright in Brooklyn Center) were NOT LEOs confronting armed men fleeing a shooting or something.   Blake and Wright were traffic stops and Floyd was stopped because of a complaint about a counterfeit twenty dollar bill.  In Virginia, Army LT Caron Nazario was threatened and pepper sprayed in a traffic stop.   Those are just some of high profile cases in the last year.

 

Police are NOT treating white Americans the same way as they treat black Americans in traffic stops.  That's the striking thing about these incidents in the last year.  The incidents -- and the others that happened just in the last year that I haven't mentioned -- have all stemmed from traffic stops or petty crimes that the police escalated when they had other options. 

 

No amount of "liberal media bias" could possibly suppress news about the police regularly confronting white men during traffic stops with the excessive and too often deadly force that they confront black men.   White people wouldn't stand for it.  White politicians wouldn't stand for it.  

 

Do you remember the names of any of the hundreds of Caucasians shot by Police last year ? Hispanics ? I didn’t think so because they are almost never publicized unless it’s around a lib narrative such as “ gun control”. Some folks comply better than others, or don’t make sudden movements etc. Cops today have to assume a suspect is armed, so compliance is key. Cherry picked examples and a huge lib narrative have so many folks fooled into an uproar. Wouldn’t it be great if people were so concerned about the violent crimes that happen every single day in cities across the nation? If they spoke out against criminals ? In recent times we have seen small children killed by gunfire while sitting on the porch of a grandparents home, and a high school graduate gunned down in cold blood. Probably by someone he knew or was familiar with. That’s just in Chicago, and similar things happen daily. Folks go on their merry way, ignorant of reality. If a Cop has to discharge their weapon though, it’s “ outrageous” even when the details come out and it was a justified shoot. Occasionally , it is not. We have a legal system for that. Sad , sad state of American ignorance. 

[Boxcar]

13 hours ago, Backintheday544 said:

Okay! Great so we start with you not knowing stats based on this comment since you don’t know what per capita means. Thank you for demonstrating your ignorance. That’s a brave choice. Bravo!

 

So per capita means per person. So in the prior discussion we looked at welfare dollars per person.

 

This looks at shootings per race.

 

To make this easier to understand, you have a deck of 52 cards. 26 red and 26 black. If you pick a card you have a 50 percent chance of of getting black or red. Over a large enough sample (like say if every cop in the US picked a card, you’d expect 50 percent red and 50 percent black).

However, when these cops actually pull a card over a large sample, we find they pull a black card 2.6 times more than than they do a red card. Now if you were a critical thinker, you’d say hey wait that doesn’t make sense, we have an even population yet we’re pulling the black card at a higher frequency than the red card. Why is that?

 

Now to apply that to race in the US. White to black isn’t a 50/50 distribution. So we wouldn’t expect to sample US police shootings and see a 50/50 break down. We should expect to see a breakdown similar to population. But we don’t. We see a breakdown that skews more non-white than white based on population than we should see.

 

So I applaud you for acknowledging you don’t know statistics. I acknowledge this is a really quick example of how they would, so if my fellow posters see flaws in the analysis feel free to point them out so we can help educate Blitz!. So, maybe check out an online class and you can learn a little more than I can post in a quick post!

 

Mr. Statsman, can you give me the figures of violent crime and robbery broken down by race?

[Boxcar]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

So its ok if cops just execute anyone that runs? 

Where was this implied? It's common sense. Should he have been shot? No. Could he have helped the situation by complying? Yes.

 

Scum like Rashida Tlaib declaring this was an intentional shooting just to raise the tension in the country (and other countries, too) when it clearly was an accident/case of police incompetence is absolutely despicable.

[Boatdrinks]

11 minutes ago, Boxcar said:

Where was this implied? It's common sense. Should he have been shot? No. Could he have helped the situation by complying? Yes.

 

Scum like Rashida Tlaib declaring this was an intentional shooting just to raise the tension in the country (and other countries, too) when it clearly was an accident/case of police incompetence is absolutely despicable.

Exactly. Sadly, common sense isn’t found in Tibs. Oh well. This was clearly a tragic error by the Officer involved, she meant to tase the individual. She will be found liable on several levels. He shouldn’t have attempted to flee ( he’d still be alive today) but he didn’t deserve to die for his actions either. See, common sense. It’s become rare in America today. 

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

There's a lack of trust. Most people on this board either lived through the Civil Rights movement or their parents did. It wasn't very long ago black people were targets. There is a trauma there. It's not something you can just say forget about. 

 

There is systemic racism that is slowly dying off, very slowly. The rise of social media has added gasoline to the issues that remain. It's going to take generations to die off before black people can trust those in law enforcement. 

 

 

This is all true.  

 

It's almost impossible for me to try to make clear to people when discussing police brutality that I understand and respect the history of the Black community and law enforcement.  You really can't because it almost makes you sound racist.  

 

I've had to explain this to my kids as they've seen events in this country play out since last summer.  They have questions.  There is a way to educate this on this history and not indict an entire country as inherently racist; flawed yes.  Perfect no.  But we're the greatest country on earth.  Until 2020 shamdemic.  Then we ruined it.  

 

But anyway, anyone that doesn't understand or isn't sure what that history is please read as much as you can about it so you don't come across as insensitive, racist, or ignorant if you want to have a constructive conversation.

 

 

 

My solutions to the problems are simple.  Elementary schools need to find a way to make it a priority to hire black males.  Period.  The data is clear.  Single family homes with the father often completely absent has obviously impacted all society but it has been extremely detrimental to the Black community. 

 

Black boys do not relate to the White guilt lib female teacher and she can't relate to them.  Make no mistake there are exceptions.  

 

Every single female Elementary teacher that was out there with BLM should resign and let a Black male do their job if they truly want to make a difference.  

 

This is the only job in America where the proportion is grossly out of whack and its destroying society.   

 

https://hechingerreport.org/student-voice-black-boys-need-the-guidance-and-mentorship-of-black-male-teachers/

Edited April 14, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Tiberius]

40 minutes ago, Boxcar said:

Where was this implied? It's common sense. Should he have been shot? No. Could he have helped the situation by complying? Yes.

 

 

It would be great if everyone just did the right thing. But then misunderstandings would still happen 

26 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Exactly. Sadly, common sense isn’t found in Tibs. Oh well. This was clearly a tragic error by the Officer involved, she meant to tase the individual. She will be found liable on several levels. He shouldn’t have attempted to flee ( he’d still be alive today) but he didn’t deserve to die for his actions either. See, common sense. It’s become rare in America today. 

Oh boo. See, its this type of attitude that has corroded society 

[B-Man]

 

FTA:

 

The facts right now appear to indicate that the shooting was a tragic mistake with Daunte Wright being shot while fleeing arrest, when the officer who shot him thinking she was pulling a taser, but then using her firearm. That was what the police chief said and the video evidence so far seems to support that claim.

 

The mayor immediately wanted to fire the officer, but the city manager Curt Boganey said that they had to afford her due process. So the city council fired the city manager and made the mayor in charge of the police department. City Council member Kris Lawrence-Anderson admitted that Boganey was doing a great job but she voted to fire the city manager because she was afraid of “repercussions on a personal level” (translation: she thought the rioters would come to her home).

 

The mayor also said that he thought that cops didn’t need guns all the time when they made traffic cops, that somehow they should just know when they might need them. The city council also passed a resolution against using crowd control measures including tear gas, rubber bullets or kettling. So that city is clearly going to get lit up.

 

It’s been a complete mess and there aren’t a lot of people who have performed well in this case.

 

Except the city manager.

 

{snip}

 

 

Boganey stood, despite the pressure from the mayor and despite the pressure from the activists, because it was the right thing to do. He lost his job over standing up for that right, for due process.

 

“I lost my job, but I still have my integrity,” former City Manager Curt Boganey told Fox News in a statement, Tucker Carlson revealed on his Tuesday night show. They invited him to be on air but he turned it down because he was “hesitant about making any media appearances,” the Daily Caller said. That makes me think all the more of him.

 

If we’re not standing for that concept, what are we about anymore as a country?

 

https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2021/04/14/brooklyn-center-city-manager-fired-for-calling-for-due-process-speaks-out-n360761

[Chef Jim]

8 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

It would be great if everyone just did the right thing. But then misunderstandings would still happen 

Oh boo. See, its this type of attitude that has corroded society 

 

Yes lack of common sense has corroded society.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

BINGO!!!   The three cases in Wisconsin in the last year (Floyd in Minneapolis, Blake in Kenosha, Wright in Brooklyn Center) were NOT LEOs confronting armed men fleeing a shooting or something.   Blake and Wright were traffic stops and Floyd was stopped because of a complaint about a counterfeit twenty dollar bill.  In Virginia, Army LT Caron Nazario was threatened and pepper sprayed in a traffic stop.   Those are just some of high profile cases in the last year.

 

Police are NOT treating white Americans the same way as they treat black Americans in traffic stops.  That's the striking thing about these incidents in the last year.  The incidents -- and the others that happened just in the last year that I haven't mentioned -- have all stemmed from traffic stops or petty crimes that the police escalated when they had other options. 

 

No amount of "liberal media bias" could possibly suppress news about the police regularly confronting white men during traffic stops with the excessive and too often deadly force that they confront black men.   White people wouldn't stand for it.  White politicians wouldn't stand for it.  

 

600 or 700 people per year that aren’t identified as African American are killed by police every year. That’s 2-3x. You’re saying those are all justified otherwise we would have heard about them, right? 

 

You’re  saying none of those were escalated from broken tail lights, or unarmed people, resisting arrest or no knock SWAT raids? 
 

 

[Big Blitz]

27 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

FTA:

 

The facts right now appear to indicate that the shooting was a tragic mistake with Daunte Wright being shot while fleeing arrest, when the officer who shot him thinking she was pulling a taser, but then using her firearm. That was what the police chief said and the video evidence so far seems to support that claim.

 

The mayor immediately wanted to fire the officer, but the city manager Curt Boganey said that they had to afford her due process. So the city council fired the city manager and made the mayor in charge of the police department. City Council member Kris Lawrence-Anderson admitted that Boganey was doing a great job but she voted to fire the city manager because she was afraid of “repercussions on a personal level” (translation: she thought the rioters would come to her home).

 

The mayor also said that he thought that cops didn’t need guns all the time when they made traffic cops, that somehow they should just know when they might need them. The city council also passed a resolution against using crowd control measures including tear gas, rubber bullets or kettling. So that city is clearly going to get lit up.

 

It’s been a complete mess and there aren’t a lot of people who have performed well in this case.

 

Except the city manager.

 

{snip}

 

 

Boganey stood, despite the pressure from the mayor and despite the pressure from the activists, because it was the right thing to do. He lost his job over standing up for that right, for due process.

 

“I lost my job, but I still have my integrity,” former City Manager Curt Boganey told Fox News in a statement, Tucker Carlson revealed on his Tuesday night show. They invited him to be on air but he turned it down because he was “hesitant about making any media appearances,” the Daily Caller said. That makes me think all the more of him.

 

If we’re not standing for that concept, what are we about anymore as a country?

 

https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2021/04/14/brooklyn-center-city-manager-fired-for-calling-for-due-process-speaks-out-n360761

 

 

 

Where is @BillStime he gets extremely upset over power transfers in State Government that lead to authoritarian like policies and less Democracy.  

 

Really going to need his thoughts on this one.  

Edited April 14, 2021 by Big Blitz

[T&C]

I see that the ex officer who shot him has been charged with 2nd degree manslaughter. They mentioned that it carries up to a 10 year sentence Or a $20,000 fine. 

[FireChans]

Here’s something I don’t understand.

 

I don’t understand how 99% of people don’t agree that A. She shouldn’t have shot him with her gun and B. He shouldn’t have run from police.

 

If A. hadn't happened, he’d be alive. If B. hadn’t happened, he’d be alive. 
 

So I pose this question to you all. Does anyone disagree with either of these two statements? Can we find a true TBD middle ground in this day and age?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Here’s something I don’t understand.

 

I don’t understand how 99% of people don’t agree that A. She shouldn’t have shot him with her gun and B. He shouldn’t have run from police.

 

If A. hadn't happened, he’d be alive. If B. hadn’t happened, he’d be alive. 
 

So I pose this question to you all. Does anyone disagree with either of these two statements? Can we find a true TBD middle ground in this day and age?

You see, it’s gotta be exclusively B or A otherwise the respective narratives aren’t fulfilled. 

[SoTier]

4 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

There are two sides to this coin when it comes to police encounters.  People, including whites, that engage in confrontations with the police during encounters or traffic stops suffer the same fate.  Maybe people that cooperate with the police when they get stopped, don't engage in physical confrontations, and don't have outstanding arrest warrants don't end up getting injured or shot.   Maybe we should consider the concept of assigning some responsibility to the suspect rather than the innocent victim model which has become the popular view?  I've been stopped by the cops about a dozen times in my life and my first thought is to make sure I come out of it alive. 

 

If you want to suggest we can ever develop some kind of policing model where the margin of error in the population of all traffic stops is zero then that's not possible.  No system or process has a zero error rate.  Anywhere.

 

When has a cop stopped you for an illegal left hand turn or a burned out tail light and demanded that you get out of your vehicle at gunpoint?  

 

It happens to black men too frequently, and it never happens to white men.  If it did, FAUX NEWS and other Right Wing news outlets would be all over it and you know damn well that that's true.

 

PS .  Having an outstanding warrant or multiple ones is not a capital offense in any state in the US.

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, T&C said:

I see that the ex officer who shot him has been charged with 2nd degree manslaughter. They mentioned that it carries up to a 10 year sentence Or a $20,000 fine. 

From what I understand about Minnesota law, this sounds about right. She was definitely negligent. 10 years is on the extreme end and I would hope she doesn’t get that. The video speaks to a lower number imo. 

24 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

When has a cop stopped you for an illegal left hand turn or a burned out tail light and demanded that you get out of your vehicle at gunpoint?  

 

It happens to black men too frequently, and it never happens to white men.  If it did, FAUX NEWS and other Right Wing news outlets would be all over it and you know damn well that that's true.

 

PS .  Having an outstanding warrant or multiple ones is not a capital offense in any state in the US.

 

 

Having an outstanding warrant for an illegal handgun would lead to such a situation, though. Never happens ? You are woke beyond repair. Racism at every turn is all you see. 

[TSOL]

3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

From what I understand about Minnesota law, this sounds about right. She was definitely negligent. 10 years is on the extreme end and I would hope she doesn’t get that. The video speaks to a lower number imo. 

 

 

Do you think they will put her in general population? Or will she be in one of those special white people prisons with a pool? 

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Here’s something I don’t understand.

 

I don’t understand how 99% of people don’t agree that A. She shouldn’t have shot him with her gun and B. He shouldn’t have run from police.

 

If A. hadn't happened, he’d be alive. If B. hadn’t happened, he’d be alive. 
 

So I pose this question to you all. Does anyone disagree with either of these two statements? Can we find a true TBD middle ground in this day and age?

I agree with both your statements. This is because it’s the truth. Truth has all too often become irrelevant.

Just now, TSOL said:

 

 

Do you think they will put her in general population? Or will she be in one of those special white people prisons with a pool? 

She’s an ex cop, so if she gets jail time, she should absolutely not be in general pop and she won’t be. She doesn’t deserve to be physically harmed for her error., and putting her in general pop would all but guarantee this.