Vaccination will be required to attend Bills games this season, per Polancarz. [Edit: "No official vaccination policy yet" per Bills ticket office.]

[BuffaloBob]

47 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

How is this not a HIPPA violation, amazing how quickly Americans give up their freedoms and are OK with it.

 

These vaccines are not even FDA approved yet for standard use, its only emergency use, how the government can demand you take these experimental mRNA vaccines is crazy

Yeah, except they aren't ALL mRNA vaccines.  Two of them are adenovirus-delivered vaccines and this technology has already been regular (not emergency) approved technology.

[Blokestradamus]

1 hour ago, Kelsayrundefense said:

Did you know that your name rhymes with queef?

 

Stop the thread right here. There's no way you're topping this.

[SCBills]

12 minutes ago, teef said:

you completely twisted what i said.    i think the vaccine works, but it doesn't mean everything is completely back to normal yet.  so if people bought the hype, that means they got the vaccine?  there's no hype here.  it's a decision.  it just seems to me that people who choose not to get the vaccine are far more attacking about it that people who have gotten it.

 

some people have been so tricked into think their government is trying to control them...that we're going socialist or communist with these new rules.  your freedoms are being taken away!  you can accuse people of falling for the hype for taking it, but that is that type of thinking?  

I can’t imagine why people who couldn’t bury loved ones, go to a wedding, go to church, send their kids to school, gather with family for holidays, open their own businesses and are now threatened with ideological vaccine passports feel like the government is trying to control them... 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by SCBills

[Don Otreply]

10 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Including the Vice President who is helping with the rollout of the vaccine, or the governor of NY who signs the checks of the guy whose statement started this thread? Or does skepticism only = low intellect when it fits the side of the fence you’re currently munchin the grass on?

 

Your initial post calling anyone who disagrees with you/this decision of low intellect is pretty telling for how willing and able you are to engage in useful dialogue about your believes and held opinions. I’d encourage you to rethink that.

It’s not about me, its about the reality of the current situation, and the best known information we as a species have to counter this virus, it’s not that complicated... 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Boxcar said:

If it was just a decision left to private businesses, that's fine. I agree that they should be free to serve or not serve whoever they want for any reason. If the Bills on their own accord want to implement this rule, fine. If it's a condition set by the government, that's where it stops being up to the individual private businesses. I don't think this is unreasonable.

 

This is a fair point.  If the Bills are following a county or state regulation then it's not a private business decision.

[BuffaloBob]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This is a fair point.  If the Bills are following a county or state regulation then it's not a private business decision.

Isn't it their private decision to follow that county or state regulation?

[Rochesterfan]

29 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

 

My body my choice, thats what they say right?

 

Yep - try that if your a women in the South and see how it works.

 

Southern men are up in arms that someone may suggest that a vaccine must be taken, but god forbid you are transgender or a women - you can even speak to your doctor about certain things unless the men in power allow it.

 

Freedom is funny in how some people in power decide if it impacts them versus women, transgender, people of color - their freedom seems less important.

[JaCrispy]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBob said:

Isn't it their private decision to follow that county or state regulation?

They can if they so choose, but they shouldn’t be forced to do so, for fear of being shut down...

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I can’t imagine why people who couldn’t bury loved ones for months, go to a wedding, send their kids to school, gather with their families for holidays and open their own businesses feel like the government is trying to control them... 

 

I cant imagine why those people wouldnt do whatever it took to eradicate the virus that kept them from those things in the first place. Especially when all that has been asked is "stay home, wear a mask when you do go out, and get this vaccine".

 

Weird to blame "the government" when it's the virus's fault. Weird folks dont want to do simple things to eradicate the virus so we can all get back to normal.

 

 

[Mike in Horseheads]

I think its great that Erie County has taken this stance. This isn't anything but 'Murica, ya know when we lined up as kids to get rubella shots at school. It sounds like this younger generation are a bunch of pussies that are afraid of a shot.

[PolishDave]

1 hour ago, Boxcar said:

If it was just a decision left to private businesses, that's fine. I agree that they should be free to serve or not serve whoever they want for any reason. If the Bills on their own accord want to implement this rule, fine. If it's a condition set by the government, that's where it stops being up to the individual private businesses. I don't think this is unreasonable.

 

I get your point, but the county owns the stadium.   So it is the county's call to make regarding whether or not you are allowed to enter and under what conditions.   

[teef]

Just now, SCBills said:

I can’t imagine why people who couldn’t bury loved ones for months, go to a wedding, send their kids to school, gather with their families for holidays and open their own businesses feel like the government is trying to control them... 

how many times has this happened in your life...once.  does this happen on the regular to you?   we had what was perceived a medical nightmare, so systems were put in place to slow that process.  that's it.

 

on that note, let's not get into this bull####.  first off, i live in ny and we have some of the strictest rules with covid.  last year i took a major step in my career, and build a building that houses my and another business.  it was a big step for me.  weeks later, i was told i couldn't work for 10 weeks.  even after those 10 weeks, we could open back up with heavy limitations.  my overhead skyrocketed, and a lot had to change.  i had a tough year last year as we all did.  we made sacrifices, and now we're moving past that.  

 

my school age kid couldn't go to school full time, so we put her in private so she could.  my cousin couldn't get married on her expected date, so she had a very small wedding, and will have a large reception when she can.  figure that ***** out.  

[Mike in Horseheads]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I cant imagine why those people wouldnt do whatever it took to eradicate the virus that kept them from those things in the first place. Especially when all that has been asked is "stay home, wear a mask when you do go out, and get this vaccine".

 

Weird to blame "the government" when it's the virus's fault. Weird folks dont want to do simple things to eradicate the virus so we can all get back to normal.

 

 

Its just a excuse and its the same people.

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBob said:

Yeah, except they aren't ALL mRNA vaccines.  Two of them are adenovirus-delivered vaccines and this technology has already been regular (not emergency) approved technology.

And the technology has been around for a while now. It’s been used in animal and human trials for over a decade, with promising results in the treatment of some cancers in those trials. If mRNA vaccines were going to be a major health risk, those risks would have been well known by now. In the 40,000 some odd Pfizer trials before they were granted the EUA, there were ZERO allergic reactions. Thru the first two months of vaccinations, the rate was approximately 5 reactions per million shots administered. That’s remarkable. 
 

I find the science behind it all extremely fascinating.

[Boxcar]

1 minute ago, PolishDave said:

 

I get your point, but the county owns the stadium.   So it is the county's call to make regarding whether or not you are allowed to enter and under what conditions.   

Do the ticket sales not go to the Bills/NFL? I believe this policy decision would fall to the Bills, but could be wrong. Anyway, it being government owned makes it worse, not better.

[BuffaloBob]

1 minute ago, JaCrispy said:

They can if they so choose, but they shouldn’t be forced to do so, for fear of being shut down...

Well, they could make the choice to continue to have far less people in the stands, wearing masks I suppose.  But if given the choice between a full stadium every week and the paltry number they had for a few playoff games last year, I'll bet they would be on board with choice number one.  Especially when there will be plenty of people more than happy to comply.

[Big Blitz]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I cant imagine why those people wouldnt do whatever it took to eradicate the virus that kept them from those things in the first place.

 

 

Because you can't.  

 

It will be here evolving for DECADES.  

[RiotAct]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Especially when all that has been asked is "stay home, wear a mask when you do go out, and get this vaccine".

 

that’s not exactly a simple ask though... especially the first part.  Life isn’t one-size-fits all.  People are right to be skeptical of the government, at all levels.  That may have worked against us with the challenge of COVID, but...

[BuffaloBob]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

And the technology has been around for a while now. It’s been used in animal and human trials for over a decade, with promising results in the treatment of some cancers in those trials. If mRNA vaccines were going to be a major health risk, those risks would have been well known by now. In the 40,000 some odd Pfizer trials before they were granted the EUA, there were ZERO allergic reactions. Thru the first two months of vaccinations, the rate was approximately 5 reactions per million shots administered. That’s remarkable. 
 

I find the science behind it all extremely fascinating.

Yes, both of the have been.  There are currently several regular track clinical trials of the adenovirus vector technology as well.  For everything from HIV to Ebola to SARS to the regular flu.

[Big Blitz]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

And the technology has been around for a while now. It’s been used in animal and human trials for over a decade, with promising results in the treatment of some cancers in those trials. If mRNA vaccines were going to be a major health risk, those risks would have been well known by now. In the 40,000 some odd Pfizer trials before they were granted the EUA, there were ZERO allergic reactions. Thru the first two months of vaccinations, the rate was approximately 5 reactions per million shots administered. That’s remarkable. 
 

I find the science behind it all extremely fascinating.

 

 

We'll find out in due time if you're at an increased risk for Parkinsons or other neurological disorders.  

 

I trust the government wouldn't lie to me tho so sign my kids up.   

[BuffaloBob]

1 minute ago, RiotAct said:

that’s not exactly a simple ask though... especially the first part.  Life isn’t one-size-fits all.  People are right to be skeptical of the government, at all levels.  That may have worked against us with the challenge of COVID, but...

There is a large gap between healthy skepticism and what is going on these days.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Because you can't.  

 

It will be here evolving for DECADES.  

 

So dont even bother to try. Just give up and let it infect everyone. Got it. How Boot-strappy American of you.

 

Man, I dont mean to make it personal, but your lack of management/leadership skills is on full display in this thread. Maybe take a break.

 

 

3 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

that’s not exactly a simple ask though... especially the first part.  Life isn’t one-size-fits all.  People are right to be skeptical of the government, at all levels.  That may have worked against us with the challenge of COVID, but...

 

Skeptical is one thing.

 

Ultra-cynical to the point of detaching from reality is what we have been dealing with.

[K-9]

13 minutes ago, BuffaloBob said:

Isn't it their private decision to follow that county or state regulation?

Yes. And they have little choice BUT to follow that regulation as the facility is a county (read government) owned facility. If the Bills didn’t want to follow the regulation, they could try to play elsewhere, but then they’d be in violation of their lease with the county. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

This isn’t necessarily true for everyone. Some people have legitimate medical reasons or are conflicted by the vaccine development process and religious beliefs. It seems like most things that are taking about “requiring” proof of vaccination are allowing for exceptions on these grounds. I’d be surprised if it doesn’t end up being the same here. 

 

That's fine but no one has the right to attend Bills games. If you don't want to take the vaccine you can't attend, it's that simple. Just like people had to test negative for covid to attend the playoff games.

[Boatdrinks]

Hey, hasnt it been established that showing proof or a document is now “ racist” ? How could Poloncarz and the rest of the County cronies have overlooked this? I expect to hear calls for boycotts any minute now. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Kelsayrundefense said:

If you thinking forcing me to take an unapproved FDA vaccine that was fast tracked for a disease that has less than a .1% mortality rate for my age group is cynical, then I guess I'm cynical.

 

Back in my day, we understood that the reason vaccination is called a 'public health issue' is because to break transmission, enough of the public needs to be vaccinated therefore it's a decision we make for the public good.  Make whatever decision you want, but please stop defending it on the grounds that "I'm personally not going to die so whaddo I care?" 

 

As for whaddo we all care, we care because maths say with a 70% or 90% effective vaccine and a still widely circulating disease, vaccinated people can still get sick.

[Boxcar]

10 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

So dont even bother to try. Just give up and let it infect everyone. Got it. How Boot-strappy American of you.

 

Man, I dont mean to make it personal, but your lack of management/leadership skills is on full display in this thread. Maybe take a break.

 

 

 

Skeptical is one thing.

 

Ultra-cynical to the point of detaching from reality is what we have been dealing with.

Speaking of detaching from reality, the average age of someone who dies from Covid is over 80 years. The average life expectancy is a little over 78 years. This whole thing has been a massive overreaction.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Boxcar said:

Speaking of detaching from reality, the average age of someone who dies from Covid is over 80 years. The average life expectancy is a little over 78 years. This whole thing has been a massive overreaction.

They're also disproportionately poor and minorities, so even more of an overreaction amirite

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Boxcar said:

Speaking of detaching from reality, the average age of someone who dies from Covid is over 80 years. The average life expectancy is a little over 78 years. This whole thing has been a massive overreaction.

 

Link or source for your made up stat?

[Boxcar]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

They're also disproportionately poor and minorities, so even more of an overreaction amirite

No, same amount of overreaction as before. I'm not getting sucked in by your race baiting.

[whatdrought]

26 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

It’s not about me, its about the reality of the current situation, and the best known information we as a species have to counter this virus, it’s not that complicated... 

 

It is about you though. Your first post, which is now gone (either due to you deleting it, or a mod doing so) was you declaring your way to be the bona-fide truth of enlightenment, while all others are intellectually inferior. 

 

That's a you problem. There are two sides to this conversation, and declaring the conversation over and the dissenters idiots doesn't work when the second most powerful person in the world (and someone who is on your side of the conversation) along with the governor of the state in question flip flopped their position mere months ago to fit the political expediency of the moment. 

 

 

I'm not getting into the minutia of the debate, nor have I tried to do that with you. Rather, i was pointing out that your initial ad hominem was douchey. 

 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Boxcar said:

No, same amount of overreaction as before. I'm not getting sucked in by your race baiting.

We have three categories to choose from- age, income, race. YOU chose race.

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

They're also disproportionately poor and minorities, so even more of an overreaction amirite

And the overreaction to COVID also disproportionately affected minorities and the poor... so we can both play this game.  

[Boxcar]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Link or source for your made up stat?

https://www.ft.com/content/879f2a2b-e366-47ac-b67a-8d1326d40b5e

 

I know it doesn't fit your preferred narrative, but maybe sometimes entertain the idea that you might not know everything.

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

We have three categories to choose from- age, income, race. YOU chose race.

No, I chose age. Are you dyslexic?

[DaggersEOD]

34 minutes ago, teef said:

you completely twisted what i said.    i think the vaccine works, but it doesn't mean everything is completely back to normal yet.  so if people bought the hype, that means they got the vaccine?  there's no hype here.  it's a decision.  it just seems to me that people who choose not to get the vaccine are far more attacking about it that people who have gotten it.

 

some people have been so tricked into think their government is trying to control them...that we're going socialist or communist with these new rules.  your freedoms are being taken away!  you can accuse people of falling for the hype for taking it, but that is that type of thinking?  

Im sorry Teef, I’m not really tracking most of this. I respect you as a poster and already acknowledge you as smarter than the people who would think that. And of course it’s their decision. 
 

If you’re wondering why these “some people” are so sensitive/prickly it’s probably because people keep telling them that they’re bad people for holding their POV.
 

I don’t think most actively engage those they think are vaccinated to tell them they are dumb. They usually just want to be allowed to make a MORE informed decision.

 

However, they are often met with outrage for their POV, have begun to see instances where “some people” have been discriminated against (something those who are not being discriminated against wouldn’t notice) and are being threatened to be placed in sections only for “some people” if they’re allowed to attend at all. 
 

Most free people have a hard time dealing with that with a southern smile on their face. 
 

Maybe give them some slack. 🤷‍♂️

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, DaggersEOD said:

You forgot to include those with actual anti-bodies. Much more effective than vaccines in 100% of instances. 
 

While you can’t directly add the number of infected to the number vaccinated as there will be considerable overlap, you can at a minimum count all positive cases over the last year as having anti-bodies.
 

Vaccines are a substitute for those who don’t. We’re closer to the 70% than you realize.

 

This is a good thing 

 

But no one makes money off anti-bodies, so I fully expect them to not be taken into consideration. 

 

1) Vaccination provokes your body to make an adaptive immune response.  This generates "actual" antibodies.  Honest!

2) The vaccine would not be effective if, in fact, antibodies in response to the vaccine were "much less effective in 100% of instances".  This is a statement made without data or scientific support.

3) Most viruses in fact have mechanisms to suppress the immune system and Sars-CoV2 is one of the sneakier bastards, so it's generally believed that the immune response from being vaccinated is stronger and more effective than the "natural" immune response, especially to a mild or asymptomatic infection.  You can't count "all positive cases" over the last year as having antibodies, because there are studies and data showing that especially in the case of asymptomatic infections the antibodies are gone in 3-6 months (whether antibodies are what actually matter to the adaptive immune response to Sars-CoV2 is another question)

4) The problem with herd immunity by natural infection with an RNA virus is that infected people serve as natural incubators for viral mutations.  Immunity then runs a footrace with developing variant strains that will be able to end-around immunity. 

Just now, DaggersEOD said:

Im sorry Teef, I’m not really tracking most of this. I respect you as a poster and already acknowledge you as smarter than the people who would think that. And of course it’s their decision. 
 

If you’re wondering why these “some people” are so sensitive/prickly it’s probably because people keep telling them that they’re bad people for holding their POV.
 

I don’t think most actively engage those they think are vaccinated to tell them they are dumb. They usually just want to be allowed to make a MORE informed decision.

 

However, they are often met with outrage for their POV, have begun to see instances where “some people” have been discriminated against (something those who are not being discriminated against wouldn’t notice) and are being threatened to be placed in sections only for “some people” if they’re allowed to attend at all. 
 

Most free people have a hard time dealing with that with a southern smile on their face. 
 

Maybe give them some slack. 🤷‍♂️

 

Be easier if one weren't seeing pictures of sheep posted by people who oppose vaccination and hearing about "obedience level" and "crumbs dropped by government" etc etc.

 

Just the point that the insult-slinging is not unidirectional.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, PonyBoy said:

What's the big deal?...Most Bill's fans are usually "shot" when they're in the parking lot

🍻

 

There will be plenty of alcohol around to sterilize the  needles.

[Mike in Horseheads]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

We have three categories to choose from- age, income, race. YOU chose race.

Most of these people that deny Covid can't count to three so please change your hard question

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I ***** give up.  We've had pictures of vaccinated people as sheep, insulting vaccinated people as all obese, communism, socialism blah blah blah on the other hand calling unvaccinated people dumb, saying people who deny covid can't count to three, and so forth.

 

This is a reasonable football-related topic but we're obviously not able to discuss it in a reasonable way and I need to do other things than "ride herd" on it