Darnold to the Panthers

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Is Ross saying that the Bills could potentially be in for a nice haul of draft picks?

Maybe saying the bears should have traded Mitch last year 

[mannc]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

We will see .. and yes the Jets absolutely ruined Darnold , and many talented quarterbacks have been ruined... David Carr was twice the quarterback of his brother... And Derek's on a 10 year good career... David just got ruined by a expansion franchise

 

If he(Darnold) came to the bills he would be a really good quarterback. Maybe not at the tier Allen's at now, but that's because Allen had a higher ceiling

 

But Donald absolutely got ruined in New York 

 

And by all accounts the bills did have darnold number one and Josh Allen number 2 on their board

 

The fate of many players careers rest on where they go on draft night. Every single player from the first pick to last undrafted free agent is extremely talented 

 

It's always circumstances

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There’s really no evidence to suggest that Darnold—or David Carr—was ruined.  Darnold played with the Jets the same way he played his last year at USC—terrible ball security and no standout skills. If he tears it up in Carolina, I’ll revisit this opinion, but I doubt I’ll have to.

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, mannc said:

There’s really no evidence to suggest that Darnold—or David Carr—was ruined.  Darnold played with the Jets the same way he played his last year at USC—terrible ball security and no standout skills. If he tears it up in Carolina, I’ll revisit this opinion, but I doubt I’ll have to.

By most scouts darnold is a higher graded quarterback than Zach Wilson coming out 

 

They aren't replacing Donald with a magically better quarterback

 

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

By most scouts darnold is a higher graded quarterback than Zach Wilson coming out 

 

They aren't replacing Donald with a magically better quarterback

 

Haha Kiper just said that too - Darnold would be the 2nd Qb in this draft 

 

 

[mannc]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

By most scouts darnold is a higher graded quarterback than Zach Wilson coming out 

 

 

I don’t believe that’s true.

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

I don’t believe that’s true.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/zach-wilson/32005749-4c82-7119-d27e-724ec33f130b

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/sam-darnold/32004441-5246-6141-9e5c-6e7d32a03e33

 

And I could pull up a lot more comparisons, but this is the head of NFL scouting and his grade..

 

Wilson, boom or bust 6.5

 

Darnold, pro bowl talent 7.1

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Buffalo716

[ExWNYer]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

By most scouts darnold is a higher graded quarterback than Zach Wilson coming out 

 

They aren't replacing Donald with a magically better quarterback

 

 

If Wilson lives up to his pre-draft hype though, he'll be a star in the Big Apple. He has the personality and looks that Madison Avenue loves. Darnold seems like a nice guy but not the right demeanor for NYC and NJ, IMO.

[mannc]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Haha Kiper just said that too - Darnold would be the 2nd Qb in this draft 

 

 

I assume he’s talking about Darnold’s draft grade, which, after three years of lousy play, we now know was wildly inflated.  And we now know what Darnold is worth on the trade market—not much. So I’m not sure what Mel’s point was.

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/zach-wilson/32005749-4c82-7119-d27e-724ec33f130b

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/sam-darnold/32004441-5246-6141-9e5c-6e7d32a03e33

 

And I could pull up a lot more comparisons, but this is the head of NFL scouting and his grade..

 

Wilson, boom or bust 6.5

 

Darnold, pro bowl talent 7.1

 

 

That’s one scout.  What did he think of Josh Allen?

[Buffalo716]

19 minutes ago, mannc said:

I assume he’s talking about Darnold’s draft grade, which, after three years of lousy play, we now know was wildly inflated.  And we now know what Darnold is worth on the trade market—not much. So I’m not sure what Mel’s point was.

That’s one scout.  What did he think of Josh Allen?

He's one of the more respected evaluators that is public

 

I'm not saying I loved Sam darnold, I'm saying the consensus in The scouting community is he was a better prospect than Wilson coming out 

 

Wilson has a really high ceiling but he has a really low floor

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Buffalo716

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

I assume he’s talking about Darnold’s draft grade, which, after three years of lousy play, we now know was wildly inflated.  And we now know what Darnold is worth on the trade market—not much. So I’m not sure what Mel’s point was.

That’s one scout.  What did he think of Josh Allen?

I’m pretty sure he meant right now. Because he’s only 23 and now has 3 years of playing experience.

[97bills]

21 minutes ago, mannc said:

There’s really no evidence to suggest that Darnold—or David Carr—was ruined.  Darnold played with the Jets the same way he played his last year at USC—terrible ball security and no standout skills. If he tears it up in Carolina, I’ll revisit this opinion, but I doubt I’ll have to.

I’m not saying darnold was great but the guy had 0 talent around him. If your going to take a QB that hi in the draft at least get him some WR. 

[mannc]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

He's one of the most respected scouts, and I still do too

 

I'm not saying I loved Sam darnold, I'm saying the consensus in The scouting community is he was a better prospect than Wilson

And I’m saying one scout’s opinion does not equal a consensus.  Chris Simms, who’s got as good a record as anyone evaluating QBs for the draft, gives Wilson the highest grade of any QB the last two years—ahead of Burrow, Herbert and Lawrence—all of whom he liked a lot.

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m pretty sure he meant right now. Because he’s only 23 and now has 3 years of playing experience.

Then why did Darnold return so little in trade, and why aren’t the Jets sticking with him over Wilson?

[Buffalo716]

Just now, mannc said:

And I’m saying one scout’s opinion does not equal a consensus.  Chris Simms, who’s got as good a record as anyone evaluating QBs for the draft, gives Wilson the highest grade of any QB the last two years—ahead of Burrow, Herbert and Lawrence—all of whom he liked a lot.

Yeah I know that's a little absurd. I've seen Trevor Lawrence live and he was the best quarterback I've ever seen at that age

 

NFL scouts wouldve taken him in the first round out of high school 

 

And there's a lot more than one scout that has a higher grade on Darnold than they did Wilson, which is why I mentioned it

 

 

[mannc]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Yeah I know that's a little absurd. I've seen Trevor Lawrence live and he was the best quarterback I've ever seen at that age

 

NFL scouts wouldve taken him in the first round out of high school 

 

And there's a lot more than one scout that has a higher grade on Darnold than they did Wilson, which is why I mentioned it

 

 

And according to Simms, there is more than one scout who has Wilson ranked ahead of Lawrence.  

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, mannc said:

And I’m saying one scout’s opinion does not equal a consensus.  Chris Simms, who’s got as good a record as anyone evaluating QBs for the draft, gives Wilson the highest grade of any QB the last two years—ahead of Burrow, Herbert and Lawrence—all of whom he liked a lot.

Then why did Darnold return so little in trade, and why aren’t the Jets sticking with him over Wilson?

I’m just telling you what he said, I don’t know anything about Wilson.  Orlovsky said it was to re-set the financials at the qb position there. The obvious answer is that the Jets have Wilson graded higher. 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

And according to Simms, there is more than one scout who has Wilson ranked ahead of Lawrence.  

Unless they go out on the record it means nothing. You always hear absurd takes pre-draft

 

Unless somebody puts their name to it and goes on the record it means nothing.. and I don't personally know any scouts that have Wilson ahead of Trevor Lawrence 

 

If everything goes right for Wilson he could be favre esque , but he also could be JP losman, who threw a football like a Greek god and was very athletic.. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Buffalo716

[BillsShredder83]

7 hours ago, mannc said:

Who cares?  He’ll never be a starter in the NFL again.

Meh hes a better tyrod. Someone will snag him. Very serviceable. Watched alot of carolina last year and he was far from the problem. Itll be an open competition and it wouldnt shock me if teddy b won

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

I just read one article about it saying they expect Darnold to start over Bridgewater.  
 

Was Teddy that bad last year?

No. I dont believe that at all. And i dont think the compensation forces them to start him either

[Arm of Harm]

Now we know what the Bills' long-term plan is for backup QB.

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Meh hes a better tyrod. Someone will snag him. Very serviceable. Watched alot of carolina last year and he was far from the problem. Itll be an open competition and it wouldnt shock me if teddy b won

No. I dont believe that at all. And i dont think the compensation forces them to start him either

Tyrod will never be a starter again either.  

[YoloinOhio]

Do the Jets have a vet backup QB on the team? That seems somewhat important with a rookie. Matt barkley is available, just saying 

[mannc]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Unless they go out on the record it means nothing. You always hear absurd takes pre-draft

 

Unless somebody puts their name to it and goes on the record it means nothing.. and I don't personally know any scouts that have Wilson ahead of Trevor Lawrence 

 

If everything goes right for Wilson he could be favre esque , but he also could be JP losman, who threw a football like a Greek god and was very athletic.. 

 

 

Not many current scouts are going to go public with their opinions no matter what, so I’m not sure what your point is.  Simms put his name to it and as far as I can tell, he’s been more right than anyone else WRT QBs, going back to Mahomes in 2017 and JA in 2018.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

I didn't say the Jets will be good this year, but I do think they will win a lot more games than they did last year.  They had the worst coach in the league last year.  They finally have a GM who seems to know what he's doing.  They had a good draft last year and they have a ton of picks this year, including 6 in the top 107 picks.  Next year they have two first rounders and two second rounders.  I expect Wilson will be an upgrade from Darnold and Mr. Clean simply has to be an upgrade from Gase.  So yes, I think the Jets will be much improved this year and if they hit on Wilson and Saleh, they could surpass the fish as the Bills' toughest AFCE competitor.  

That is the big question.  Can Saleh convert from a DC to a head coach?

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, mannc said:

Not many current scouts are going to go public with their opinions no matter what, so I’m not sure what your point is.  Simms put his name to it and as far as I can tell, he’s been more right than anyone else WRT QBs, going back to Mahomes in 2017 and JA in 2018.

That's my point , simms is the only scout that I've heard of that has Wilson ahead of Lawrence 

 

And I have friends who are regional scouts at pro days

 

he may turn out to be a mad genius.. because he's been right in the past.. but he's been gambling on traits and that absolutely will backfire.. he had paxton lynch ahead of Goff... Lynch wasn't good enough to play 3 years in the league

 

So he's obsessed with arm and athleticism traits in qbs

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Boxcar]

7 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Good for him. Fresh start. The Jets failed him miserably. 

No offense to Zach Wilson, but I hope they fail him miserably too.

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That's my point , simms is the only scout that I've heard of that has Wilson ahead of Lawrence 

 

And I have friends who are regional scouts at pro days

 

he may turn out to be a mad genius.. because he's been right in the past.. but he's been gambling on traits and that absolutely will backfire.. he had paxton lynch ahead of Goff... Lynch wasn't good enough to play 3 years in the league

 

So he's obsessed with arm and athleticism traits in qbs

 

 

 

 

 

He was also right with Herbert over Tua.  I like his philosophy, which is is to downplay college stats (especially win-loss) and look at the context.  WRT Lawrence, I’d be concerned that he’s played on a dominant team his whole career.  Not to say he won’t be good in the NFL, but i think it makes him a tougher evaluation than some people think.

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

He was also right with Herbert over Tua.  I like his philosophy, which is is to downplay college stats (especially win-loss) and look at the context.  WRT Lawrence, I’d be concerned that he’s played on a dominant team his whole career.  Not to say he won’t be good in the NFL, but i think it makes him a tougher evaluation than some people think.

Simms absolutely has a good eye for quarterbacks

 

I saw him(lawrence) in the Clemson spring game as an 18 year old, and he was making throws that some NFL quarterbacks don't even make

[Freddie's Dead]

Wow, not much for a 1st round QB.  I'm in the minority that thinks Darnold can be a starter in the NFL.  I say that Carolina won this trade, but only time will tell.

[mannc]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Simms absolutely has a good eye for quarterbacks

 

I saw him(lawrence) in the Clemson spring game as an 18 year old, and he was making throws that some NFL quarterbacks don't even make

I don’t doubt that.  I guess the question is how much has he developed?  The only criticism I’ve heard of Lawrence is that there hasn’t been much noticeable improvement since his freshman year, although of course he was playing at a very high level even then.

[Buffalo716]

Just now, mannc said:

I don’t doubt that.  I guess the question is how much has he developed?  The only criticism I’ve heard of Lawrence is that there hasn’t been much noticeable improvement since his freshman year, although of course he was playing at a very high level even then.

The amount of hype surrounding him it was impossible for him to live up to it at Clemson

 

He had the greatest true freshman campaign in college football history.. let that soak in... Over 100 years of division 1 football... And he had the

 greatest true freshman campaign ever for a quarterback

[Norcalbillsfan]

It was more of a mutual beneficial I think. The jets have absolutely no idea what they have in Darnold nearing his contract year. You go all in on him and pass on a qb, the very first pic Darnold throws the jets fan base will boo him out of the stadium cuz they will always want the new flashy pick in the draft.  Darnold needs at least a fair shot to prove himself, hes spent his nfl career with arguably the worst set of offensive weapons in the NFL for at least 10 years. Panthers aren't perfect but it's miles ahead of the jets offense right now.

[Chandler#81]

8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Age: 29, right in his prime, so not an issue.

Potential: Took his team to the NFC Championship last time he played a whole season.

Contract: $25M/year isnt that bad for a starting/franchise QB. Plus can be renegotiated to a new, long term deal to bring that down a little.

 

I'm not a huge Jimmy G fan, but I dont get why folks completely write him off around here.

We have an over abundance of ‘Kiddy Table’ residents here.

8 hours ago, TC in St. Louis said:

Darnold was on a crappy team.  He has natural talent.  I think it's a great move for him.  Much like Trubisky to the Bills, except we didn't have to give up anything.  

Darnold is crappy. He hit his ceiling as a QB at USC. It’s been all downhill since.

8 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I agree.  On the Jets board and even here there is a false narrative that Allen had it great when he came to Buffalo and Darnold had it terrible in NY.

 

IMO Allen had it worse in Buffalo his rookie year then Darnold did in NY.  I would challenge people to check out both offensive rosters and tell me I'm wrong.

 

While folks like Colin Cowherd continue to peddle the false notion that Bean/McD did a great job with Allen from day one the objective truth is that they screwed up big time his rookie year.  It wasn't until mid season when they brought in Barkley & Anderson and cut the dead weight at WR did the Bills brain trust start to the right thing. 

 

For sure in Allen's 2nd year Bean & McD hit their stride and they haven't looked back.  At that point Allen was given the tools to succeed.  But in his rookie year all credit goes to Allen because management & coaching did precious little through the first half of that season.

 

 

 

 

There was no intent to play Josh year 1. Everyone and their brother knew he’d have to acclimate to the pro game. Derek Anderson was the designated starter but was injured. Nate Pickpeterson pretended he belonged until we couldn’t take it anymore. A solid OL from ‘17 crashed & burned with Eric Wood retiring unexpectedly and Incognito running off with his fathers’ head. Allen started by default. 

 

But most of us here are very glad he did.

[Jay_Fixit]

4 hours ago, Bray Wyatt said:

Awesome for who? He caught 40 more passes and 300 more yards this last season than his best with Sam

Had 40 more targets, averaged 4 fewer yards per catch and also had a much better team around him than any year with Sam.

 

Anderson and Darnold were a nice combo. Jets and any player are not.

[hjnick]

For both Darnold and Wentz (throwing him in here), their new team needs to rebuild them psychologically.  Both have been traumatized by their previous teams.

 

IF they can be mentally repaired, both that the physical characteristics to be a good QB in the NFL.

 

Jets got hosed on this trade, IMO.

[machine gun kelly]

I wish nothing but the best for Darnold.  The Jets ruined him, and made so many bad personnel decisions most importantly who they hired previously for a coaching staff.  I’m not sure what will happen in Carolina who is trying to rebuild their team.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

14 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Welcome to Buffalo Mr. Darnold in about 2 years. 

"Call the replica jersey place.  We're going to need a boatload of 'DARNOLD' nameplated jerseys for 2023.  We'll save a few bucks sending them by seacan via the Suez Canal."

[Greg S]

The old Jets fans battle cry..."Darnold is better than Allen". Now we will get the new one..."Wilson is better than Allen".

[RunTheBall]

I still don’t get all the Darnold love that exists on this board. His ceiling is a backup QB. Even Josh who was 10x as raw and had just as bad a team his rookie year showed flashes of brilliance and most had the feeling that with a little time he just might develop into a franchise QB. You could see that potential in his rookie year. I never saw that with Darnold.  As bad as the Jets mismanaged him, Darnold has shown nothing except once in a while tossing a great ball out of the structure of the offense.  I don’t have anything against Sam I just haven’t seen anything that warrants all this optimism that he’s going to be anything other than a backup.

[Captain Hindsight]

9 hours ago, mannc said:

There’s really no evidence to suggest that Darnold—or David Carr—was ruined.  Darnold played with the Jets the same way he played his last year at USC—terrible ball security and no standout skills. If he tears it up in Carolina, I’ll revisit this opinion, but I doubt I’ll have to.

Thats my thing with Darnold. What does he do well? People always show some crazy highlight where he made this great throw. Then I look at the score and it 40-7 with 3 mins left in the 4th. What happened the first 3 quarters Sam????

 

Of course he is talented. Nate Peterman has made some nice throws, its the NFL. Everyone is good. I see far more bad than good with Sam and I wouldnt want him as my QB. He will make enough plays to make you think there is potential and enough turnovers to make you lose

9 hours ago, mannc said:

Tyrod will never be a starter again either.  

Hes gonna start for the Texans week one

[SoTier]

16 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Age: 29, right in his prime, so not an issue.

Potential: Took his team to the NFC Championship last time he played a whole season.

Contract: $25M/year isnt that bad for a starting/franchise QB. Plus can be renegotiated to a new, long term deal to bring that down a little.

 

I'm not a huge Jimmy G fan, but I dont get why folks completely write him off around here.

 

I think that Garoppolo is a lot like Sam Bradford: his injury issues obscure the fact that he's not all that great a QB.

[prissythecat]

15 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Age: 29, right in his prime, so not an issue.

Potential: Took his team to the NFC Championship last time he played a whole season.

Contract: $25M/year isnt that bad for a starting/franchise QB. Plus can be renegotiated to a new, long term deal to bring that down a little.

 

I'm not a huge Jimmy G fan, but I dont get why folks completely write him off around here.

 

It wasn't Jimmy G's arm that got San Fran to the NFC championship and Superbowl.  They had the #2 ranked defense and #2 ranked rushing attack in 2019.     They were a middle of pack passing team