Players that opted out in 2020

[whorlnut]

I had this discussion with another member of this board recently and we both feel that there is a possibility that Beane and McD might not view opt out players the same way as prospects as they might guys that chose to chose to play in 2020. The reason being is that they always talk about targeting guys that are great teammates and love football. 
 

Now, before I get blasted for this, we both agreed that there may be context to this. Some guys may have had health concerns related to COVID, and there may have been other personal reasons that I’m sure Beane and McD would understand. My argument is against those guys that were perfectly healthy and were prima donas that just chose not to play. To me, that’s likely to be considered a red flag to the powers that be. 
 

I fully believe they will do their research and if they do take an opt out player, that they are very confident they did it for the right reasons. They might see it as quitting on their team in some cases and might look at it as a character flag. 
 

I’m sure some of you that are pounding the table for a guy that opted out will hate this idea, but I feel we all have a really good idea of how the coach and gm think at this stage.  We will see...

[Bangarang]

Do you have examples of such players?

[Doc]

There were only 2 for the Bills: Star and EJ Gaines, who probably would have been injured during the season and wouldn't have been back anyway.  In Star's case, he is an overweight person with a heart condition.  I don't think they'll hold opting-out against him.

[whorlnut]

For clarity purposes, I just want to say that I’m talking about players in the draft. 

[The BLUES Brothers]

2 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

For clarity purposes, I just want to say that I’m talking about players in the draft. 

So you're thinking they pass on a potential prospect like this?:

 

No. 30 – DE Joe Tyron, Washington

Tryon could wind up being an outstanding value pick. He was a highly productive true sophomore in 2019 that opted out of the 2020 season. And the Bills really could use another edge rusher to give their defensive front some more juice.

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, The BLUES Brothers said:

So you're thinking they pass on a potential prospect like this?:

 

No. 30 – DE Joe Tyron, Washington

Tryon could wind up being an outstanding value pick. He was a highly productive true sophomore in 2019 that opted out of the 2020 season. And the Bills really could use another edge rusher to give their defensive front some more juice.

It’s just something to think about I guess. I just feel Beane and McD look at character and glove of the game more than others. I’m not saying they want choir boys, but I’m sure they will be looking into why each of these guys opted out. 

[glazeduck]

25 minutes ago, The BLUES Brothers said:

So you're thinking they pass on a potential prospect like this?:

 

No. 30 – DE Joe Tyron, Washington

Tryon could wind up being an outstanding value pick. He was a highly productive true sophomore in 2019 that opted out of the 2020 season. And the Bills really could use another edge rusher to give their defensive front some more juice.

I sure they pass on THAT pick. Tryon is NOT worth our first rounder. Debatable if he’s even a decent pick at 61...

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Top LT in the draft and probably a top 6 pick opted out.  GM's won't pass up talent.  Guys that have opted out of Bowl Games don't seem to be affected in the draft.  No doubt if a player missed the 2020 season, they will need to do additional homework on them but I don't think it will affect their evaluation. 

[Mickey]

Our coach and GM are too smart to hold opt out decisions against a draft prospect. It also is not at all a fair assumption or even fair to suspect, that the player who opted out somehow does not "love football" as much as one who played. 

[glazeduck]

50 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

It’s just something to think about I guess. I just feel Beane and McD look at character and glove of the game more than others. I’m not saying they want choir boys, but I’m sure they will be looking into why each of these guys opted out. 

I don’t think there’s anything that says “poor character” about sitting out the weirdest season anyone has ever experienced. 
 

Now, if they got out of shape or into trouble in that time period, then sure, you could look at that and say “I can’t trust that guy to make the right decisions” but only the oldest of old-school football guys will look at the lack of information around this last year and use that as any major knock against a kid. Maybe as the 10th or 11th tiebreaker, but not a serious flag 
 

 

[Southern_Bills]

Without reading every response I'll just give my take if I was a GM (I'm not btw).

 

I would want the reason why, if I felt the guy had a great sophomore year and sat because he could and felt his value couldn't get any higher, to me that's a red flag. He is a "me" guy and doesn't love the sport.

 

If he had legit health reasons, concerns about not being able to see his family for a season and those reasons sound valid and genuine, you can't punish him for that.

 

Also don't think these opt out guys won't have there social media investigated, if you opted out of football but was at party's and clubs it's a bad look.

 

Case by case though imo.

[Doc]

Just now, Southern_Bills said:

Without reading every response I'll just give my take if I was a GM (I'm not btw).

 

I would want the reason why, if I felt the guy had a great sophomore year and sat because he could and felt his value couldn't get any higher, to me that's a red flag. He is a "me" guy and doesn't love the sport.

 

If he had legit health reasons, concerns about not being able to see his family for a season and those reasons sound valid and genuine, you can't punish him for that.

 

Also don't think these opt out guys won't have there social media investigated, if you opted out of football but was at party's and clubs it's a bad look.

 

Case by case though imo.

 

I was just going to post this.

[whorlnut]

5 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

Without reading every response I'll just give my take if I was a GM (I'm not btw).

 

I would want the reason why, if I felt the guy had a great sophomore year and sat because he could and felt his value couldn't get any higher, to me that's a red flag. He is a "me" guy and doesn't love the sport.

 

If he had legit health reasons, concerns about not being able to see his family for a season and those reasons sound valid and genuine, you can't punish him for that.

 

Also don't think these opt out guys won't have there social media investigated, if you opted out of football but was at party's and clubs it's a bad look.

 

Case by case though imo.

These are my exact thoughts. I think Beane and McD will be doing a lot of homework to separate the me guys from the ones with logical concerns or reasoning. 

[DJB]

Vontae Davis counts as a Bills player that opted out right?

[MJS]

I just don't think it is wise to make judgements on players who opted out, even if they were perfectly healthy and had no underlying conditions.

 

We were dealing with a worldwide pandemic. It's perfectly natural for many of those players to be scared and uncertain about what playing would mean. And how would you determine which guys just wanted a free pass and which ones had legitimate concerns, as if anyone falls neatly into those buckets anyway?

32 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

Without reading every response I'll just give my take if I was a GM (I'm not btw).

 

I would want the reason why, if I felt the guy had a great sophomore year and sat because he could and felt his value couldn't get any higher, to me that's a red flag. He is a "me" guy and doesn't love the sport.

 

If he had legit health reasons, concerns about not being able to see his family for a season and those reasons sound valid and genuine, you can't punish him for that.

 

Also don't think these opt out guys won't have there social media investigated, if you opted out of football but was at party's and clubs it's a bad look.

 

Case by case though imo.

To me, that just comes down to intelligence. If a guy is dumb enough to say he sat out because of his draft value, and posted about that on social media, or other selfish concerns, you pass on that guy because he is an idiot, not because he is selfish.

 

Because if those are the true reasons, you lie and just say you did it because of health and family concerns.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

I just don't think it is wise to make judgements on players who opted out, even if they were perfectly healthy and had no underlying conditions.

 

We were dealing with a worldwide pandemic. It's perfectly natural for many of those players to be scared and uncertain about what playing would mean. And how would you determine which guys just wanted a free pass and which ones had legitimate concerns, as if anyone falls neatly into those buckets anyway?

 

I want players who love the game so much that they'd be willing to take the chance playing through an unprecedented (for the vast majority of humans) pandemic.  Maybe it's an unfair judgment but that's how I feel.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, glazeduck said:

I sure they pass on THAT pick. Tryon is NOT worth our first rounder. Debatable if he’s even a decent pick at 61...

 

Completely agree. Not sure he is a scheme fit either. But he is bad value at #30 regardless of whether he played or opted out.

[LeGOATski]

49 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

These are my exact thoughts. I think Beane and McD will be doing a lot of homework to separate the me guys from the ones with logical concerns or reasoning. 

That's with every guy, though... not just opt out guys. It seems like just another variable among the dozens of variables. Not a game changer. Guys who show signs of not loving the game or being me-first would likely show those signs regardless. I doubt opt out decisions affect their usual process at all.

[Don Otreply]

Much ado about virtually nothing,

[MAJBobby]

Every player that opted out was wel within their rights. Also even if they are perfectly healthy there are many instances of developing lingering conditions. See Sweeney and now the heart. 
 

they will treat all the prospects the same. Interview them and then decide on their makeup (seems they are good at doing that). Opt out or no opt out. 

Edited March 28, 2021 by MAJBobby

[GunnerBill]

While I am sure Beane and McDermott will ask any player they consider who opted out why they took that decision my view is they will never knock a guy for making a decision in the best interests of his family. That just doesn't seem to reflect who they have been. If a guy says to them "look, I have the opportunity by getting drafted to change the lives of my family forever and in a situation where there was so much unknown about the year I just couldn't risk that, I owed it to make the best decision for them" I can't see Beane and McDermott taking a guy off the board. 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

While I am sure Beane and McDermott will ask any player they consider who opted out why they took that decision my view is they will never knock a guy for making a decision in the best interests of his family. That just doesn't seem to reflect who they have been. If a guy says to them "look, I have the opportunity by getting drafted to change the lives of my family forever and in a situation where there was so much unknown about the year I just couldn't risk that, I owed it to make the best decision for them" I can't see Beane and McDermott taking a guy off the board. 

Yep easy answer. Player X “why did you opt out”

 

player X “it was the best decision for my family, there is a global pandemic that affects everyone why add risk to my family. I understand I could have possibly hurt my draft prospects and it was painful not playing but the health of my family was the driving factor” 

 

BOOM any answer that includes Family and how it hurt not playing will convince any GM. 

[Southern_Bills]

42 minutes ago, MJS said:

I just don't think it is wise to make judgements on players who opted out, even if they were perfectly healthy and had no underlying conditions.

 

We were dealing with a worldwide pandemic. It's perfectly natural for many of those players to be scared and uncertain about what playing would mean. And how would you determine which guys just wanted a free pass and which ones had legitimate concerns, as if anyone falls neatly into those buckets anyway?

To me, that just comes down to intelligence. If a guy is dumb enough to say he sat out because of his draft value, and posted about that on social media, or other selfish concerns, you pass on that guy because he is an idiot, not because he is selfish.

 

Because if those are the true reasons, you lie and just say you did it because of health and family concerns.

 

For the record I don't think any player would say they opted out because their value was high. 

 

But if he couldn't play ball because he was concerned for his health but his twitter/facebook/tiktok etc has him at large gatherings for recreational fun, its safe to say the health concerns were not the actual reason he sat out. In short, he's a liar.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep easy answer. Player X “why did you opt out”

 

player X “it was the best decision for my family, there is a global pandemic that affects everyone why add risk to my family. I understand I could have possibly hurt my draft prospects and it was painful not playing but the health of my family was the driving factor” 

 

BOOM any answer that includes Family and how it hurt not playing will convince any GM. 

 

Agree. Clearly they will want to interpret answers but McDermott and Beane are firmly family first people. They talk about it constantly. If they believe a guy was looking out for his family's best interests I very much doubt that them opting out has any impact on their draft stock in the Bills' eyes.

[FireChans]

18 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep easy answer. Player X “why did you opt out”

 

player X “it was the best decision for my family, there is a global pandemic that affects everyone why add risk to my family. I understand I could have possibly hurt my draft prospects and it was painful not playing but the health of my family was the driving factor” 

 

BOOM any answer that includes Family and how it hurt not playing will convince any GM. 

Counterpoint:

 

Some prospects SUCK at interviews.

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Counterpoint:

 

Some prospects SUCK at interviews.

Then they would suck at interviews explaining an opt out or not. 

[mannc]

2 hours ago, whorlnut said:

For clarity purposes, I just want to say that I’m talking about players in the draft. 

There were reasons other than health that guys like Sewell and Chase opted out.  Those guys had little to prove and, in Sewell’s case at least, they may have viewed the 2020 college season as a farce, which it clearly was in the PAC 12.  It was in most cases a strategic decision.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

I only want players willing to literally die for a game of football

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I want players who love the game so much that they'd be willing to take the chance playing through an unprecedented (for the vast majority of humans) pandemic.  Maybe it's an unfair judgment but that's how I feel.

I do think that is unfair. But you have to freedom to believe how you want.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

I do think that is unfair. But you have to freedom to believe how you want.

I mean, if it’s a push between two prospects, would you take the guy who didn’t opt out or the guy who did?

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I mean, if it’s a push between two prospects, would you take the guy who didn’t opt out or the guy who did?

 

I'd find another way of settling the matter. Generally when it is a push between two prospects I'd revert to which is a position of need. 

[MJS]

36 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I mean, if it’s a push between two prospects, would you take the guy who didn’t opt out or the guy who did?

I just wouldn't have that be a part of the evaluation process at all. You still do your due diligence into their character and off the field demeanor. I don't think opting out shows anything that would not be dug up during your normal evaluation process.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, MJS said:

I just wouldn't have that be a part of the evaluation process at all. You still do your due diligence into their character and off the field demeanor. I don't think opting out shows anything that would not be dug up during your normal evaluation process.

 

Agree. IF you have a guy who opted out and your background checks are "not sure how much football really means to him, don't know how committed he'd be once he gets paid" etc then it is confirmation of a red flag. If the background check is "man this kid is a great kid, great teammate, he took that decision really serious but he put his family above football" then I don't think it makes any difference. Remember the Bills own all pro very seriously considered not playing the season. 

[Matt_In_NH]

I don’t thinks it’s a big factor to Beane or McDermott.  A pandemic happens once in a lifetime.  When opt outs happened there were a lot of unknowns.   

[Matt_In_NH]

The option to opt out was agreed to between the teams and the players association.  They don’t need a particular good reason, it could be personal.  It was their option, now it’s in the past.  

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, whorlnut said:

For clarity purposes, I just want to say that I’m talking about players in the draft. 

 

 

You don't get to 40K posts by actually reading posts you are responding to.

[Rock'em Sock'em]

Fix all of the variables except for opting out and contracting covid.

 

player A - did not opt out, did not contract covid, shown on social media living life.

player B - did not opt out, did contract covid, shown on social media living life.

player C - did opt out, did not contract covid, shown on social media living life.

player D - did opt out, did contract covid, shown on social media living life.

 

They all play the same position, they all had equal reasoning to opt out, and all projections are equal.  I would definitely draft A first and D last.  I'm honestly not sure about B vs. C. To me, there is some value where a player makes sacrifices to play.  And there is also some value in proving to be successful (with your health).

Edited March 29, 2021 by Rock'em Sock'em

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep easy answer. Player X “why did you opt out”

 

player X “it was the best decision for my family, there is a global pandemic that affects everyone why add risk to my family. I understand I could have possibly hurt my draft prospects and it was painful not playing but the health of my family was the driving factor” 

 

BOOM any answer that includes Family and how it hurt not playing will convince any GM. 

 

Agree but I think the point is whether there is anything out there on social media or talking to contacts that would indicate the above might not be sincere

[Paup 1995MVP]

10 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep easy answer. Player X “why did you opt out”

 

player X “it was the best decision for my family, there is a global pandemic that affects everyone why add risk to my family. I understand I could have possibly hurt my draft prospects and it was painful not playing but the health of my family was the driving factor” 

 

BOOM any answer that includes Family and how it hurt not playing will convince any GM. 

What does the health of one's family have anything to do with playing college football?   Football players are far away from their family on campus.  They are not living at home.  So not sure what that has to do with any of it.  My kid played college football last season.  He wasn't worried about the health of his family.  He was worried as was his family about him rehabbing his knee to be able to play again after a serious injury at the start of the 2019 season.  (Fortunately he came back strong)  Amazing that the pandemic is still a topic for discussion on any level.  

 

As for Star he missed out on one hell of a 2020 Bills season.  But hey if he comes back and plays well, I welcome him back opt out or not.  

[MAJBobby]

6 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

What does the health of one's family have anything to do with playing college football?   Football players are far away from their family on campus.  They are not living at home.  So not sure what that has to do with any of it.  My kid played college football last season.  He wasn't worried about the health of his family.  He was worried as was his family about him rehabbing his knee to be able to play again after a serious injury at the start of the 2019 season.  (Fortunately he came back strong)  Amazing that the pandemic is still a topic for discussion on any level.  

 

As for Star he missed out on one hell of a 2020 Bills season.  But hey if he comes back and plays well, I welcome him back opt out or not.  

Because they go home. Parents come to games. Some still live with parents or close to home. So year family has to do with a lot.