WR Kenny Stills said to be visiting Buffalo (no confirmation he signed)

[klos63]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We've been slowly figuring things out, but our passing game has in general been less explosive.  The best D's can bracket Beasley and Diggs and if they're good enough to pressure with 4 it's a problem.

 

My take is we got 1 1st round draft pick on offense and 1 guy we used a 1st to acquire (Diggs).  6 of the top 10 cap hits this season are players on D, and many without nearly the impact of Diggs, Morse, Dawkins, and Brown - White, Hughes, and Poyer yes; Addison, Murphy, and Butler not so much (especially Murphy, and Addison has been disappearing of recent)

 

Overall right now, the Bills are spending $70M on offense and $102M on defense.  So my take is, we better keep the quality we have on offense and look hard at the value per $$ we're getting on D before we decide Brown's cap hit is too high.

Some of the defensive signings this past offseason had easy outs after 1 year. I think Star's contract isn't easy to drop next season so he'll be on the team , which would mean at least one DT goes away. Maybe Epenesa takes Addison's place and saves a few million. Lot of decisions on the line this offseason.

[balln]

1 minute ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said:

Who had the money on a 23-page Kenny Stills thread pre-season?  I can't remember, I didn't write it down.  Just pm me your bitcoin info, kthnx.

lol product of a really good team and a starved rabid fan base

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, balln said:

davis has had insane production for a rookie / or even as a #4 (3 due to brown injury) WR on any team. period 

 

That's because we have a QB capable of elevating the players around him. Literally every receiver on the team has had a career year with Allen throwing the ball (even John Brown last year had a career year). Davis has been a decent possession receiver that gets open in the end zone because Diggs draws so much attention. I haven't seen enough evidence that he can separate consistently enough to be a #2 WR in the league but it's possible he'll develop. I like him as a #4 option but Stills is even better at that spot.

Edited January 1, 2021 by HappyDays

[balln]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's because we have a QB capable of elevating the players around him. Literally every receiver on the team has had a career year with Allen throwing the ball (even John Brown last year had a career year). Davis has been a decent possession receiver that gets open in the end zone because Diggs draws so much attention. I haven't seen enough evidence that he can separate consistently enough to be a #2 WR in the league but it's possible he'll develop. I like him as a #4 option but Stills is even better at that spot.

yes. allen has been unreal. its a chicken or egg argument. davis had an unreal td catch against phins. and then against chargers

 

compared to zay jones rd 2. puts it even in more perspective

also on certain plays they have davis line up as a TE and take on (and he has stoned) the edge rusher in pass pro 

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's because we have a QB capable of elevating the players around him. Literally every receiver on the team has had a career year with Allen throwing the ball (even John Brown last year had a career year). Davis has been a decent possession receiver that gets open in the end zone because Diggs draws so much attention. I haven't seen enough evidence that he can separate consistently enough to be a #2 WR in the league but it's possible he'll develop. I like him as a #4 option but Stills is even better at that spot.

 

Stills is better than Davis at this point, but that shouldn't be construed as hate on Davis, who I think is a baller as a 4th round rookie and just needs to develop like all rookies need to develop.  Also, calling him a possession receiver is not accurate, imo.  That called back TD because of the timeout against the Patriots speaks to that.  He's not a burner, but he ain't slow either.

[djp14150]

If we are talking roster changes....it’s easier to do if you win the super bowl.

if buffalo didn’t but are an early season favorite Then players will come to buffalo on the cheap to get a ring.

 

some roster decisions won’t be known till after the draft..

[HappyDays]

Just now, balln said:

yes. allen has been unreal. its a chicken or egg argument. davis had an unreal td catch against phins. and then against chargers

 

compared to zay jones rd 2. puts it even in more perspective

 

Sure, I'm not saying Davis is Zay Jones. He is a rosterable wideout with NFL traits. I just think fans on this board are putting too much stock in his production without understanding where it comes from.

 

The ability to get separation is the single most important trait an NFL WR can have. It's why I might put Diggs as the #1 WR in the league this year. He can't make the insane catches that Deandre Hopkins makes but he is a little more consistent in getting open. Tyreek Hill is the only competition in my view.

 

Davis hasn't shown #2 WR caliber ability to get separation. A lot of his TDs he is just streaking wide open because the defense isn't paying attention to him. On a play to play basis he isn't making himself available and he didn't get drafted for his route running prowess.

[Penfield45]

News went quiet 

 

sounds like the deal is off imo 

[balln]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Sure, I'm not saying Davis is Zay Jones. He is a rosterable wideout with NFL traits. I just think fans on this board are putting too much stock in his production without understanding where it comes from.

 

The ability to get separation is the single most important trait an NFL WR can have. It's why I might put Diggs as the #1 WR in the league this year. He can't make the insane catches that Deandre Hopkins makes but he is a little more consistent in getting open. Tyreek Hill is the only competition in my view.

 

Davis hasn't shown #2 WR caliber ability to get separation. A lot of his TDs he is just streaking wide open because the defense isn't paying attention to him. On a play to play basis he isn't making himself available and he didn't get drafted for his route running prowess.

im not sure anyone is saying hes #2 wr tho. nor is stills. these are # 3 or 4. in THIS offense not sure you can say id rther have stills than davis. I wouldnt. Id take davis in dabolls offens. do I want stills? YES . the more weapons the better. 

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said:

 

Stills is better than Davis at this point, but that shouldn't be construed as hate on Davis, who I think is a baller as a 4th round rookie and just needs to develop like all rookies need to develop.  Also, calling him a possession receiver is not accurate, imo.  That called back TD because of the timeout against the Patriots speaks to that.  He's not a burner, but he ain't slow either.

 

Yeah he runs good vertical routes but that's about it. Outside of that he is really just a possession receiver. If he develops I think his ceiling is as a #3 outside option that you use for chunk plays. If we ever try to make him our permanent #2 option I don't think it will work out.

[Doc Brown]

46 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that Beasley would dearly love to try to get a 1,000 yard season and the Bills aren't wanting to rain on his parade but would prefer to sit him this Sunday and give him more chance to heal or at least higher probability to be available for the playoff game.

Concede the victory to Miami only if they let Beasley catch a 33 yard throw in a wheel chair.  Win/win.

[Mr. WEO]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's because we have a QB capable of elevating the players around him. Literally every receiver on the team has had a career year with Allen throwing the ball (even John Brown last year had a career year). Davis has been a decent possession receiver that gets open in the end zone because Diggs draws so much attention. I haven't seen enough evidence that he can separate consistently enough to be a #2 WR in the league but it's possible he'll develop. I like him as a #4 option but Stills is even better at that spot.

 

 

Houston, the #4 passing Offense in the League, didn't think so.   

 

He was, however, part of (with Tunsil and a 4th) one of the most lopsided trades in years.

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Houston, the #4 passing Offense in the League, didn't think so.   

 

He was, however, part of (with Tunsil and a 4th) one of the most lopsided trades in years.

Because Houston has been known for making great WR decisions this year.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Warcodered said:

Because Houston has been known for making great WR decisions this year.

 

They are the #4 passing Offense.  Ball catchers are not their problem.

 

Stills was a dud this year.  They dumped him and their passing game didn't miss him.  

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah he runs good vertical routes but that's about it. Outside of that he is really just a possession receiver. If he develops I think his ceiling is as a #3 outside option that you use for chunk plays. If we ever try to make him our permanent #2 option I don't think it will work out.

 

Perhaps your right.  It just reminds me of all the people who want to cut ties with Brown for "salary cap reasons" even though his cap hit is reasonable.  Why would you want to get rid of maybe the best #2 WR in the league?

[SCBills]

6 minutes ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said:

 

Perhaps your right.  It just reminds me of all the people who want to cut ties with Brown for "salary cap reasons" even though his cap hit is reasonable.  Why would you want to get rid of maybe the best #2 WR in the league?

Same reason as the Milano discussion.  
 

Availability.  
 

Brown’s speed does nothing if he’s out half the season. 
 

I don’t mind keeping him next year, but I’d like to have another speed threat on the roster in case he catches the injury bug again. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said:

 

Perhaps your right.  It just reminds me of all the people who want to cut ties with Brown for "salary cap reasons" even though his cap hit is reasonable.  Why would you want to get rid of maybe the best #2 WR in the league?

 

Who?  Brown?  He's not even the #2 WR on this team.  Then there's Lockett, Ridley, Moore, Godwin.........

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Who?  Brown?  He's not even the #2 WR on this team.  Then there's Lockett, Ridley, Moore, Godwin.........

Brown is up there when healthy.  Not the best #2 WR, but certainly up there. 

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

Just now, SCBills said:

Same reason as the Milano discussion.  
 

Availability.  
 

Brown’s speed does nothing if he’s out half the season. 
 

I don’t mind keeping him next year, but I’d like to have another speed threat on the roster in case he catches the injury bug again. 

 

											2014 Arizona Cardinals 16                   2015 Arizona Cardinals 15                   2016 Arizona Cardinals 15                   2017 Arizona Cardinals 10                   2018 Baltimore Ravens 16                   2019 Buffalo Bills 15                   2020 Buffalo Bills 8
											This is the games Brown has played in his NFL career.  You say availability?  That's obviously a red herring.

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Who?  Brown?  He's not even the #2 WR on this team.  Then there's Lockett, Ridley, Moore, Godwin.........

 

He's obviously the #2 WR on this team.  But you know that.  Is he the best #2?  You raise a good counter-argument there.  But the idea that he should be discarded is absolutely ridiculous, imo.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Brown is up there when healthy.  Not the best #2 WR, but certainly up there. 

 

Maybe.  He's had 2 seasons barely over 1000 in his career--one with the Bills when he was the de facto #1 with Beasley and Knox as about all they had. This year, he wasn't nearly on pace to break 1000 again.  Clearly Beasley is Josh's second favorite target.  That won't change with Brown back in the lineup--especially now with Davis there too.  

[SCBills]

Just now, {::'KayCeeS::} said:

 

											2014 Arizona Cardinals 16                   2015 Arizona Cardinals 15                   2016 Arizona Cardinals 15                   2017 Arizona Cardinals 10                   2018 Baltimore Ravens 16                   2019 Buffalo Bills 15                   2020 Buffalo Bills 8
											This is the games Brown has played in his NFL career.  You say availability?  That's obviously a red herring.

Maybe so, but he’s a speed WR who has a few good years left, but is getting up there in age.   Missing half of a season going into a year where the team can save sizable cap space on you isn’t ideal.  
 

Again, I’d keep him... but with Allen’s arm, I don’t know if I want to trust him as our #2/primary speed threat alone next year.  
 

We figured it out after an adjustment period, but make no mistake, this offense has another gear when Allen has a speed guy opposite Diggs. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said:

 

											2014 Arizona Cardinals 16                   2015 Arizona Cardinals 15                   2016 Arizona Cardinals 15                   2017 Arizona Cardinals 10                   2018 Baltimore Ravens 16                   2019 Buffalo Bills 15                   2020 Buffalo Bills 8
											This is the games Brown has played in his NFL career.  You say availability?  That's obviously a red herring.

 

He's obviously the #2 WR on this team.  But you know that.  Is he the best #2?  You raise a good counter-argument there.  But the idea that he should be discarded is absolutely ridiculous, imo.

 

 

He's not. See above.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Maybe.  He's had 2 seasons barely over 1000 in his career--one with the Bills when he was the de facto #1 with Beasley and Knox as about all they had. This year, he wasn't nearly on pace to break 1000 again.  Clearly Beasley is Josh's second favorite target.  That won't change with Brown back in the lineup--especially now with Davis there too.  

I think the Bills should keep drafting WR and keep eyes peeled for potential deals.

 

I largely agree here, and upgrading the skill position talent is a big reason for the jump in Allen and the offense in general.

 

So I wouldn’t be “done” at WR, regardless of how this season plays out.

 
From what I’ve seen, Davis has a nose for the end zone, but he’s a 4.52 WR who mostly ran go routes in college. We shouldn’t stop there trying to improve the WR group.

 

And Isaiah Hodgins? Well he’s got speed issues too and has been hurt all year. 
 

I like the Bills pushing for Stills and Nelson. Draft another one, and draft a Tight End too. 

[HappyDays]

31 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

They are the #4 passing Offense.  Ball catchers are not their problem.

 

Stills was a dud this year.  They dumped him and their passing game didn't miss him.  

 

That's because Watson is a really good QB who elevates the players around him. Does this mean Hopkins isn't good, because he got traded away and the Texans passing game didn't miss him? The Texans decided to start their younger players so they mutually agreed with Stills to release him. He immediately upgrades our depth heading into the playoffs and I trust him more than Gabe Davis if Brown were to get hurt again.

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think the Bills should keep drafting WR and keep eyes peeled for potential deals.

 

I largely agree here, and upgrading the skill position talent is a big reason for the jump in Allen and the offense in general.

 

So I wouldn’t be “done” at WR, regardless of how this season plays out.

 
From what I’ve seen, Davis has a nose for the end zone, but he’s a 4.52 WR who mostly ran go routes in college. We shouldn’t stop there trying to improve the WR group.

 

And Isaiah Hodgins? Well he’s got speed issues too and has been hurt all year. 
 

I like the Bills pushing for Stills and Nelson. Draft another one, and draft a Tight End too. 

 

Bills fans have been fascinated with "you know, you can't teach speed" for too long and too easily. 

 

These 40 times, in a practical sense, aren't significantly different. 

[Don Otreply]

It so very good board members don’t have the capacity to not resign or let player go, the team would be in shambles within one season.

 

Go Bills!! 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's because Watson is a really good QB who elevates the players around him. Does this mean Hopkins isn't good, because he got traded away and the Texans passing game didn't miss him? The Texans decided to start their younger players so they mutually agreed with Stills to release him. He immediately upgrades our depth heading into the playoffs and I trust him more than Gabe Davis if Brown were to get hurt again.

 

By any measure, the Texans passing is better the season than last, so it's impossible to argue that the Offense missed Hopkins.

 

You would trust a player who got dumped in week 12 after catching 11 balls (in a pass happy Offense where 9 guys had more targets!) over a guy who has been playing on THIS team every week and has 500 yards at 15 per and 6 TDs????  

 

That's....ridiculous.

[balln]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

By any measure, the Texans passing is better the season than last, so it's impossible to argue that the Offense missed Hopkins.

 

You would trust a player who got dumped in week 12 after catching 11 balls (in a pass happy Offense where 9 guys had more targets!) over a guy who has been playing on THIS team every week and has 500 yards at 15 per and 6 TDs????  

 

That's....ridiculous.

+1

[Logic]

I'm all for adding Kenny Stills. He has made meaningful contributions in playoff football games as recently as last season.

What I don't really understand is what it would mean for the game day rosters, assuming Brown and Beasley are both back for the playoffs.

Diggs
Brown
Beasley
Roberts
Davis
McKenzie 

Stills

They're not going to activate seven receivers on game day, so who sits? Roberts is locked in as the returner. Davis has done nothing to warrant being benched for a journeyman vet. McKenzie adds a unique element to the offense that no other receiver offers. 

Would they just be adding Stills for depth in case of injury? Are the Bills just hedging their bets because both Brown and Beasley are nicked up? One would think so, but then McDermott's recent comments ("those are two separate conversations") would seem to indicate otherwise. 

Numbers wise at the receiver position -- unless a current WR is too injured to suit up -- it's an odd addition.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Penfield45 said:

News went quiet 

 

sounds like the deal is off imo 

 

I would expect the next time people hear something is when he signs with someone.  This isn't so big that media is going to follow it every day.  You were worried about John Brown still being out too no?  Why don't you stop living your life so negative and just enjoy where the Bills are at right now.  I've enjoyed it all damn season where half the board did nothing but whine up until a couple weeks ago.

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'm all for adding Kenny Stills. He has made meaningful contributions in playoff football games as recently as last season.

What I don't really understand is what it would mean for the game day rosters, assuming Brown and Beasley are both back for the playoffs.

Diggs
Brown
Beasley
Roberts
Davis
McKenzie 

Stills

They're not going to activate seven receivers on game day, so who sits? Roberts is locked in as the returner. Davis has done nothing to warrant being benched for a journeyman vet. McKenzie adds a unique element to the offense that no other receiver offers. 

Would they just be adding Stills for depth in case of injury? Are the Bills just hedging their bets because both Brown and Beasley are nicked up? One would think so, but then McDermott's recent comments ("those are two separate conversations") would seem to indicate otherwise. 

Numbers wise at the receiver position -- unless a current WR is too injured to suit up -- it's an odd addition.

 

This is a very reasonable analysis.  All I can think of is that they know Allen is God-Tier right now, so they're willing to sacrifice a backup at another position at game time in order to faciliate his success.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, balln said:

im not sure anyone is saying hes #2 wr tho. nor is stills. these are # 3 or 4. in THIS offense not sure you can say id rther have stills than davis. I wouldnt. Id take davis in dabolls offens. do I want stills? YES . the more weapons the better. 

 

I agree these guys are 3/4 type receivers.  Stills has the ability to clean out defensive players though.  He has to be paid attention to because he can burn a defense deep.  He has the ability that defenses cant double cover Diggs all the time.  While I like Davis, I am not so sure I would say that about him.  Having both is nothing but positive.  I would put Diggs, Brown, Beas, Stills on the field all day long.  It would help our run game too.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Scott7975

[Big Turk]

44 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Who?  Brown?  He's not even the #2 WR on this team.  Then there's Lockett, Ridley, Moore, Godwin.........

 

Ridley is clearly the #1 now in Atlanta. Jones has been hurt almost all year...killed my fantasy team...on track to play and then Sunday comes and he is out. Like this week.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Houston, the #4 passing Offense in the League, didn't think so.   

 

He was, however, part of (with Tunsil and a 4th) one of the most lopsided trades in years.

 

I think that was more a money decision during a period that Stills was injured.

41 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Maybe.  He's had 2 seasons barely over 1000 in his career--one with the Bills when he was the de facto #1 with Beasley and Knox as about all they had. This year, he wasn't nearly on pace to break 1000 again.  Clearly Beasley is Josh's second favorite target.  That won't change with Brown back in the lineup--especially now with Davis there too.  

Uh, he was on pace for 1029 yards actually.

[HappyDays]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

You would trust a player who got dumped in week 12 after catching 11 balls (in a pass happy Offense where 9 guys had more targets!) over a guy who has been playing on THIS team every week and has 500 yards at 15 per and 6 TDs????  

 

Again... context. Stills could have caught every TD Davis has this year except for the incredible catch in the Dolphins game. The Texans decided to see what their younger receivers could do. He was always going to re-sign with a playoff team. Stills is a veteran with better separation skills than Davis. I would absolutely trust him in the playoffs over the 4th round rookie.

[Doc Brown]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I think that was more a money decision during a period that Stills was injured.

There was also some stuff about him being unhappy they fired a female employee and some "likes" he put up on social media about the Texans being a garbage franchise.  Just seemed like parting ways was the best for both parties involved  Get him here.  Talk to him.  See if he's a good fit moving forward.

[klos63]

17 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'm all for adding Kenny Stills. He has made meaningful contributions in playoff football games as recently as last season.

What I don't really understand is what it would mean for the game day rosters, assuming Brown and Beasley are both back for the playoffs.

Diggs
Brown
Beasley
Roberts
Davis
McKenzie 

Stills

They're not going to activate seven receivers on game day, so who sits? Roberts is locked in as the returner. Davis has done nothing to warrant being benched for a journeyman vet. McKenzie adds a unique element to the offense that no other receiver offers. 

Would they just be adding Stills for depth in case of injury? Are the Bills just hedging their bets because both Brown and Beasley are nicked up? One would think so, but then McDermott's recent comments ("those are two separate conversations") would seem to indicate otherwise. 

Numbers wise at the receiver position -- unless a current WR is too injured to suit up -- it's an odd addition.

i think that is definitely the reason. Brown hasn't been healthy since early in the season and Beasley may miss a playoff game.  We can't go into the playoffs limited at WR.

[Doc]

In the playoffs, give me veteran WRs.  If they have speed and ability (like Brown and Stills), even better.

[BillsMafi$]

LFG

[njbuff]

I read somewhere that Stills is expected to sign with the Bills and begin practicing next week.

 

FWIW.