Playbooks staying and leaving with Daboll

[Kelly the Dog]

This is something I should know but I don't. And thought the concept of playbooks deserves its own thread. 

 

I assume that Dorsey has been compiling his own playbook for a few years, as he would be preparing to one day be an offensive coordinator. Most all of these guys do. And would be inclined to install it if Daboll leaves and he takes over.  

 

But would it be unusual for a team to just keep the Daboll offense and playbook intact as a Josh has now had three years with it and begun to master it, and then have Dorsey just take it over if and when he is named OC? While Daboll takes the same offense and playbook to his next job?

 

And then Dorsey could add his own unique plays and tweaks to it as they go. That is surely what I would lobby for. If Daboll leaves, which I think is only 50-50 chance ( he will be a hot name and interview but not sure he gets a job first time out), hire Dorsey and don't change the offense at all. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Kelly the Dog

[foreboding]

See, I think Daboll is such a quality, humble guy and teams will see the Bills culture and combined with Joshs' development he is as good as gone. Which I hate.

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

This is something I should know but I don't. And thought the concept of playbooks deserves its own thread. 

 

I assume that Dorsey has been compiling his own playbook for a few years, as he would be preparing to one day be an offensive coordinator. Most all of these guys do. And would be inclined to install it if Daboll leaves and he takes over.  

 

But would it be unusual for a team to just keep the Daboll offense and playbook intact as a Josh has now had three years with it and begun to master it, and then have Dorsey just take it over if and when he is named OC? While Daboll takes the same offense and playbook to his next job?

 

And then Dorsey could add his own unique plays and tweaks to it as they go. That is surely what I would lobby for. If Daboll leaves, which I think is only 50-50 chance ( he will be a hot name and interview but not sure he gets a job first time out), hire Dorsey and don't change the offense at all. 

 

What do you think the Pats did over 20 years of Brady and changes at OC?

 

No I dont think it's unusual, especially if they promote from within.

[GunnerBill]

Dorsey will have the playbook they are using this year. As will McDermott and all the players. Daboll goes and Dorsey is promoted I am sure he will add some stuff and take some stuff out but that happens year to year anyway. 

 

They are not going to rip up everything they have run this year. 

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Dorsey will have the playbook they are using this year. As will McDermott and all the players. Daboll goes and Dorsey is promoted I am sure he will add some stuff and take some stuff out but that happens year to year anyway. 

 

They are not going to rip up everything they have run this year. 

 

Probably 70% of the plays in the playbook are plays that every team in the league has.  Some of the concepts might be unique in the way they are designed but the concepts themselves are not.  Daboll has a great feel for when to call certain plays, what to attack on a defense and how to call them against certain looks, which I think is much more important than the actual plays since many of them are very similar.

Edited December 8, 2020 by matter2003

[Mr. WEO]

Why would it matter if Daboll "left with the playbook"?  They are well known by the Offense by now.  

[Kelly the Dog]

16 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

What do you think the Pats did over 20 years of Brady and changes at OC?

 

No I dont think it's unusual, especially if they promote from within.

I think Belichick pretty much designed that offense from the start even though he is thought of as a defensive coach, and other offensive coaches just followed his direction and offense. 

[Special K]

Pretty sure Peyton Manning brought “his” offense to Denver.

 

It’s surprising to me that Brady didn’t get to bring “his” offense to Tampa.

 

I feel that Josh is close to being a master of “his” offense no matter who the OC is.

[Figster]

12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

What do you think the Pats did over 20 years of Brady and changes at OC?

 

No I dont think it's unusual, especially if they promote from within.

The last time Buffalo started promoting from within the Steve Fatherlychilds O it turned into some slippery , slimmy beast that slayed the holy Trent and even Van Pelt couldn't get a grasp on the abomination. 

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

13 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Probably 70% of the plays in the playbook are plays that every team in the league has.  Some of the concepts might be unique in the way they are designed but the concepts themselves are not.  Daboll has a great feel for when to call certain plays, what to attack on a defense and how to call them against certain looks, which I think is much more important than the actual plays since many of them are very similar.

True but the 30% is what makes sense the difference. Daboll designs some very unique plays that one could say follow that same percentage. 70% we have already seen for years but those 20-30% unique elements make the play. Daboll has proven to have a good offense, and design good game plans, and an ability to play call, which are three different talents. Let's hope that Dorsey can also do the latter two. 

[CommonCents]

15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Why would it matter if Daboll "left with the playbook"?  They are well known by the Offense by now.  

And the 49ers, apparently 😁

[eee1776]

I am not sold of the fact that Daboll would leave . All his family and relatives live here, he is from Blo. Plus other factors like a raise in pay and seeing this through to the end with Josh. 

Anyway this is just a thought on the plus side. 

[SCBills]

15 minutes ago, Special K said:

Pretty sure Peyton Manning brought “his” offense to Denver.

 

It’s surprising to me that Brady didn’t get to bring “his” offense to Tampa.

 

I feel that Josh is close to being a master of “his” offense no matter who the OC is.

 

This. 

 

They've already built an Offense around him and Josh took out all the plays he doesn't like in the playbook. 

 

We know what kind of players to surround him with.  

 

Combined with his command of the offense and ability to check at the LOS, we're getting close - if not already there - to where this is Josh Allen's Offense.  

 

Daboll is fantastic play-caller, and deserves a ton of credit for getting Allen to this point.  He should be option 1a on every team's coaching wish list, imo. 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by SCBills

[TheFunPolice]

The more attention John Allen gets, the more Daboll will be a hot coaching candidate.

 

That said, Greg Roman wasn't able to cash in on helping Lamar Jackson win an MVP by re-working the offense, so you never know.

 

LOTS of open jobs this year, though, so that worries me. 

You know some team will do something nuts like hire Dave Wannstedt or Mike Mularkey or Dick Jauron as its head coach. 

 

 

[Bangarang]

5 minutes ago, eee1776 said:

I am not sold of the fact that Daboll would leave . All his family and relatives live here, he is from Blo. Plus other factors like a raise in pay and seeing this through to the end with Josh. 

Anyway this is just a thought on the plus side. 

He already interviewed for a HC job last off-season. Clearly he has interest in becoming a HC. It’d be naive to think he loves Buffalo so much that he’d turn down the opportunity.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Bangarang

[Figster]

34 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Why would it matter if Daboll "left with the playbook"?  They are well known by the Offense by now.  

Innovative coaches have evolving playbooks that they adjust to the players avaiable given the skill sets they offer IMO.

 

Losing Daboll would be such a huge loss for the Buffalo Bills...

 

On a side note Ryan Fitzpatrick has future OC material written all over him IMO. It will be interesting to see how well Fitzy coaches up Tua. ( scary ) The bearded one loves Buffalo.

 

I'm just saying...

Edited December 8, 2020 by Figster

[Jauronimo]

3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

He already interviewed for a HC job last off-season. Clearly he has interest in becoming a HC. It’s be naive to think he loves Buffalo so much that he’s turn down the opportunity.

That was a Rooney Rule interview. Nothing more.

[Big Turk]

8 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

The more attention John Allen gets, the more Daboll will be a hot coaching candidate.

 

That said, Greg Roman wasn't able to cash in on helping Lamar Jackson win an MVP by re-working the offense, so you never know.

 

LOTS of open jobs this year, though, so that worries me. 

You know some team will do something nuts like hire Dave Wannstedt or Mike Mularkey or Dick Jauron as its head coach. 

 

 

 

Roman has been the opposite in his offensive trends throughout his career...at every stop his offense regressed over time not progressed...in effect his best year was his first year in most places with the same players.

 

His systems got figured out, weaknesses exposed and he has struggled to adjust. Happened in SF, happened here and is happening in Baltimore.

 

That wouldn't give me confidence if I was an owner. 

[jimmy10]

Daboll’s already seen success at the highest levels in both the NFL and NCAA. I know that head coaching is the ultimate goal for a lot of these guys, but part of me feels like he wants to stick with his current gig in Buffalo, maybe just for a few years while the window is open, to bring a championship to his hometown team. 

[TheFunPolice]

Just now, matter2003 said:

 

Roman has been the opposite in his offensive trends throughout his career...at every stop his offense regressed over time not progressed...in effect his best year was his first year in most places with the same players.

 

His systems got figured out, weaknesses exposed and he has struggled to adjust. Happened in SF, happened here and is happening in Baltimore.

 

That wouldn't give me confidence if I was an owner. 

 

That is definitely true about Roman. 

[zow2]

If Daboll leaves Josh will be fine....as long as Beane continues to provide him with talented weapons.  Brian Daboll has taught Josh how to ride a bike at an expert level.  If Daboll goes on to coach the Texans or whatever,,,,Allen won't forget how to ride that bike.  

[Bangarang]

7 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

That was a Rooney Rule interview. Nothing more.

Daboll does look really tan these days. 🤔

[TheFunPolice]

5 minutes ago, jimmy10 said:

Daboll’s already seen success at the highest levels in both the NFL and NCAA. I know that head coaching is the ultimate goal for a lot of these guys, but part of me feels like he wants to stick with his current gig in Buffalo, maybe just for a few years while the window is open, to bring a championship to his hometown team. 

 

I could see it being a tough spot. I think about this with Bienemy in KC as well. You're working with young star QBs and winning a lot, life is good. The OC or DC of a winning team is one of the most popular people in the league... everyone tells you how great you are, fans worry about you leaving,  owners of other teams constantly make overtures for HC openings, you win accolades and SB rings, and collect tons of money. 

 

Since you are coaching a guy like Mahomes, for example, you can do no wrong. 

 

Most places you go the cupboard is bare or there is the famous "some talent but no QB" problem. Look at Chicago. Nagy has had good players but no QB, and he could be headed for an exit at the end of the season. Then what?

 

Suddenly you go from "genius" with a QB who can do anything to a Mitch Trubisky situation, where no matter how hard you try the guy can't cut it. And it's all YOUR FAULT and you get criticized all day long. 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by TheFunPolice

[947]

Daboll is a really good OC, but I'm not sure he'd make a good Head Coach. He can be a hot head, and that's not usually what NFL players respond wee to. That said, he'll definitely get some interest this offseason.

[Rochesterfan]

9 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

He already interviewed for a HC job last off-season. Clearly he has interest in becoming a HC. It’d be naive to think he loves Buffalo so much that he’d turn down the opportunity.

 

I agree that it is naive to think he won’t leave, but what is nice is that he has options.  He loves the city and he and Josh are great together.  I think that he can be a bit more picky and make sure he gets the right situation.  That may mean taking and internal Bills GM candidate to work with.

 

When Mike Pettine left to take over the Browns - he would of been better off sticking around another year and finding a better situation.  That move set him back as a HC candidate years and has not gotten a real sniff since.

 

 

 

 

[zow2]

5 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Roman has been the opposite in his offensive trends throughout his career...at every stop his offense regressed over time not progressed...in effect his best year was his first year in most places with the same players.

 

His systems got figured out, weaknesses exposed and he has struggled to adjust. Happened in SF, happened here and is happening in Baltimore.

 

That wouldn't give me confidence if I was an owner. 

 

Doesn't pretty much every offense regress over time?  That's why coaches are fired like it's a turnstile.  It ebbs and flows with talent level too.  I think the only offense that always stays consistent is Andy Reid.  No one can ever figure him out with certainty... and then he gets his hands on Mahomes...

[Kelly the Dog]

18 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

He already interviewed for a HC job last off-season. Clearly he has interest in becoming a HC. It’d be naive to think he loves Buffalo so much that he’d turn down the opportunity.

Yep. Plus in a nationally televised game, directly against a DC that is likely more in demand as a HC than he is, Daboll clearly outmatched him.

[TheFunPolice]

Depending on how things go, the Lions and Falcons could be very attractive landing spots.

 

Ryan and Stafford are both very good, IMO.

 

Either could really flourish with a change of scenery. Put Matt Ryan with Shanahan in SF and it would be fun to watch. 

 

 

[Figster]

1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I agree that it is naive to think he won’t leave, but what is nice is that he has options.  He loves the city and he and Josh are great together.  I think that he can be a bit more picky and make sure he gets the right situation.  That may mean taking and internal Bills GM candidate to work with.

 

When Mike Pettine left to take over the Browns - he would of been better off sticking around another year and finding a better situation.  That move set him back as a HC candidate years and has not gotten a real sniff since.

 

 

 

 

Helping Josh Allen win a Championship I hope gives Daboll enough incentive to stay.

 

Can you imagine Daboll going to the Jets and getting teamed up with Trevor Lawrence.  :  (

[Rochesterfan]

Just now, Figster said:

Helping Josh Allen win a Championship I hope gives Daboll enough incentive to stay.

 

Can you imagine Daboll going to the Jets and getting teamed up with Trevor Lawrence.  :  (

 

It could be tough, but Daboll has a bit of a temper and it will be interesting to see him as a HC and letting someone else call plays.  
 

I am not sure Daboll and Trevor Lawerence are a great match, but he can help him grow if Lawerence would allow it.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I think Belichick pretty much designed that offense from the start even though he is thought of as a defensive coach, and other offensive coaches just followed his direction and offense. 

 

The Pats offense has definitely evolved and changed over the last couple decades, in significant ways, as different OCs have come and gone and returned.

I can't tell you how much of the evolution is on Belichick and how much on the different OCs.  Daboll probably could.

 

 

[MJS]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

What do you think the Pats did over 20 years of Brady and changes at OC?

 

No I dont think it's unusual, especially if they promote from within.

I was going to make the same comparison.

 

Coordinators can certainly come in and run the same offense. And I would expect them to add their own perspective, own plays, and own wrinkles to the offense. I bet McDermott would make it clear that they are not willing to have a full change of offensive scheme.

 

If Dorsey is the guy, that transition would be really easy. If they want to bring in a third party, it might be a little tougher because a lot of coordinators would want to run their own scheme. So it's up to McDermott to find a coordinator that is willing to work with the current system in place.

[GunnerBill]

53 minutes ago, Special K said:

Pretty sure Peyton Manning brought “his” offense to Denver.

 

It’s surprising to me that Brady didn’t get to bring “his” offense to Tampa.

 

I feel that Josh is close to being a master of “his” offense no matter who the OC is.

 

Peyton Manning is the exception to me. He was his own offensive coordinator in Denver until Kubiak arrived. Kubiak made him fit into the offense. Before that Mike McCoy and Adam Gase got Head Coaching jobs off being spectators to the Manning offense.

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

I was going to make the same comparison.

 

Coordinators can certainly come in and run the same offense. And I would expect them to add their own perspective, own plays, and own wrinkles to the offense. I bet McDermott would make it clear that they are not willing to have a full change of offensive scheme.

 

If Dorsey is the guy, that transition would be really easy. If they want to bring in a third party, it might be a little tougher because a lot of coordinators would want to run their own scheme. So it's up to McDermott to find a coordinator that is willing to work with the current system in place.

 

And I used that example because we are literally running that New England Offense. It isnt even Daboll's.

 

So even if we hire from outside, just find someone that runs the NE offense.

Edited December 8, 2020 by DrDawkinstein

[WideNine]

I think being a head coach is more about having an exceptional ability to attract, motivate, and organize a capable staff and be an administrator of the culture and "process" that you want your team to embrace.

 

There is this mistaken belief in our culture that folks always have to climb to another rung on the ladder to be successful - how many times do companies take people who are perfect in their roles, love what they are doing, and promote them to something where they are not a good fit and do not enjoy the work, and subsequently fail miserably?

 

Daboll is more like the mad scientist or researcher that loves to draw up plays and see them realized on the field. I think that is where his passion lies and having to go into a rebuilding program as an HC with administrative heavy-lifting would not be a good fit. I also think that his offenses are so complex that they take a few years to get a team to the point where they are executing it at a high level. It is not something that is going to turn a struggling team around quickly...

 

An apt analogy of this is how he struggled being on the sideline with all the face-to-face and personal interactions, yet when shielded from those and sitting in the booth where there was a bit of distance, where he could move his chess pieces around, where he could analyze their offense and relay plays back down to the field, he excelled. That is Daboll in a nutshell.

 

Now I could see him accepting a role as an assistant HC and Offensive Coordinator role which would shield him from a lot of the direct visibility and day to day team admin stuff yet still be a promotion and command a bit more coin and pad the resume. Either way, I doubt that a new OC will have a playbook that Allen would not easily command after the complexity of formations and offensive plays that Daboll has had him master over his first few seasons in the NFL.

 

I think he sticks around for another year at a minimum, but we will see. It is a testament to the culture that McBeane has created that staff members are getting this kind of attention.

Edited December 8, 2020 by WideNine

[BuffaloMatt]

Maybe Dabol stays. Not everyone wants to be a HC. He's a Buffalo Guy and if he gets well paid doing what he does best than maybe he stays. The league is littered with former failed head coaches that now love their coordinator positions. Look at our DC.  

Edited December 8, 2020 by BuffaloMatt

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloMatt said:

Maybe Dabol stays. Not everyone wants to be a HC. He's a Buffalo Guy and if he gets well paid doing what he does best than maybe he stays. The league is littered with former failed head coaches that now love their coordinator positions. Look at our DC.  

I think 95% of coordinators on both sides of the ball desperately want to be head coaches, even and especially after they have failed. They all believe they would be great head coaches, and we should want them to. .

[DrDawkinstein]

22 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

There is this mistaken belief in our culture that folks always have to climb to another rung on the ladder to be successful - how many times to companies take people who are perfect in their roles, love what they are doing, and promote them to something where they are not a good fit and do not enjoy the work, and subsequently fail miserably?

 

 

Classic Peter Principle: Employees rise to their level of incompetence.

[shoshin]

8 minutes ago, BuffaloMatt said:

Maybe Dabol stays. Not everyone wants to be a HC. He's a Buffalo Guy and if he gets well paid doing what he does best than maybe he stays. The league is littered with former failed head coaches that now love their coordinator positions. Look at our DC.  

 

Daboll is motivated and deserves his shot. I doubt he's back next year. 

[Figster]

20 minutes ago, BuffaloMatt said:

Maybe Dabol stays. Not everyone wants to be an HC. He's a Buffalo Guy and if he gets $$ well doing what he does best than maybe he stays. The league is littered with former failed head coaches that now love their coordinator positions. Look at our DC.  

Josh Allen is really turning into a players magnet IMO. Its possible that same magnetism is felt strongly by Daboll. As a coach and person how can you not love Josh Allen. Coaching him is a unique opportunity only Allen can bring to the table IMO. The strongest armed QB the NFL has ever seen. Smart , courageous, great leader, players love him. ( accurate ) :  )

 

As Daboll, do you really want to play against Josh Allen? 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Figster