Kenny Stills to be cut

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Well now my number is baloney... I would have at least appreciated you acknowledging that my math was good... keep moving the goalposts though...  
 

How is the data arbitrary? It’s all players brought into the organization, showing the percentage of former Panthers. When you recognize that players play for teams and move around, it’s really not a major issue. I know off the top of my head we have like 4 former Chiefs on the roster right now, a few Browns, some Jets. Do you really think it’s out of the realm of possibility that we’ve had 20 former Chiefs, Browns, Eagles, Seahawks through here in 4 years? 

 

Glad you just pivoted off of your first argument which was just off-base. Now you’ve narrowed down to 3 players expected to compete for starting positions and not the entire group of 22, most of which were entirely depth. I’m not downplaying their interest in players they’ve worked with, at all, I’m pointing out saying because they’ve targeted a bunch of Panthers (most of which depth) doesn’t mean that ALL of them didn’t pan out and it was a catastrophe like many here believe. 
 

I don’t understand why it’s a major issue that they brought in the best FA defensive end when we needed a pass rusher, signed Williams for $2.5M to compete for an o-line job and tossed Klein (coming from the Saints) money to be the 3rd LB? Can toss in Star too. So 4 starters in 4 years came from Carolina? How’s that for narrowing it down to the relevant field? 

I’ll gladly take some time to look into it, but the points remains that YOU don’t actually know either yet you’re making assumptions... you’re basing it off of the fact that the media points out we have former Panthers and they mention it from time to time. 

 

 

 

It's arbitrary because there is both zero perspective because you don't compare to other teams and because it's simply full of IRRELEVANT data points.

 

Every team is going to have bunches of new players with little or no actual NFL game experience so including those just serves to create a low number with no comparison to that of other teams.  

 

The only broad set of data that can begin to provide real perspective is the amount of players McBeane has signed or traded for with at least one year of NFL experience in that 4 year period.   

 

Then if you want to PROVE that figure is small.........you HAVE to show us how it relates to other teams over that period.........otherwise it's just a number without any perspective.

 

We all KNOW that the Bills under McBeane have targeted and signed an inordinate amount of former Panthers.    Why anyone would argue that is bizarre.  And I forgot Vernon Butler in the 2020 equation too.   You are the one defending a absolutely invalid position.........if you want to be a statistician do it right.

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's arbitrary because there is both zero perspective because you don't compare to other teams and because it's simply full of IRRELEVANT data points.

 

Every team is going to have bunches of new players with little or no actual NFL game experience so including those just serves to create a low number with no comparison to that of other teams.  

 

The only broad set of data that can begin to provide real perspective is the amount of players McBeane has signed or traded for with at least one year of NFL experience in that 4 year period.   

 

Then if you want to PROVE that figure is small.........you HAVE to show us how it relates to other teams over that period.........otherwise it's just a number without any perspective.

 

We all KNOW that the Bills under McBeane have targeted and signed an inordinate amount of former Panthers.    Why anyone would argue that is bizarre.  And I forgot Vernon Butler in the 2020 equation too.   You are the one defending a absolutely invalid position.........if you want to be a statistician do it right.

Why do they have to have at least 1 year of experience? I’m not exactly sure why that’s relevant? And most camp signings have been around for 1+ years? Depth can be in he league for 0 years or 10 years... I didn’t realize it had to be 1 year as declared by BADOLBILZ. 
 

How do we know that? Simply because you say that it’s an inordinate amount? Because the media says “Panthers connection” every time we sign someone who played in Carolina? 
 

You’re arguing with me about something I’m not even arguing about... I’m not saying they haven’t signed a lot of Panthers... but relative to the number of players they’ve brought in, and yes, the vast majority of Panthers players we have brought in have been depth, the number isn’t that large. 
 

When you say they don’t live up to their billing, I don’t understand how a depth signing, signed at the league minimum can’t live up to their billing? The reason all of those players are relevant is because that’s who the majority of former Panthers we have brought in have been competing against for a roster spot... because they’re primarily DEPTH! 
 

It wasn’t meant to serve as a comparison to other teams, it was meant to be relative to the number of players that have come and gone over the 4 years McDermott has been here. I don’t need other teams to show that... I wasn’t arguing that 22 was a large or small number. 
 

If you want me to spend hours combing over every team a player has played for and drawing those connections across the league, I’m sure I can do it. It’ll take some time.

 

But ultimately here’s the thing... you claiming that they’ve signed and targeted an inordinate amount of Panthers is actually less relevant than my attempt at showing the numbers. You’re just claiming it, with literally no way to prove it’s quote on quote inordinate. You’re doing exactly what you’re accusing me of doing... 

[dave mcbride]

58 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Why do they have to have at least 1 year of experience? I’m not exactly sure why that’s relevant? And most camp signings have been around for 1+ years? Depth can be in he league for 0 years or 10 years... I didn’t realize it had to be 1 year as declared by BADOLBILZ. 
 

How do we know that? Simply because you say that it’s an inordinate amount? Because the media says “Panthers connection” every time we sign someone who played in Carolina? 
 

You’re arguing with me about something I’m not even arguing about... I’m not saying they haven’t signed a lot of Panthers... but relative to the number of players they’ve brought in, and yes, the vast majority of Panthers players we have brought in have been depth, the number isn’t that large. 
 

When you say they don’t live up to their billing, I don’t understand how a depth signing, signed at the league minimum can’t live up to their billing? The reason all of those players are relevant is because that’s who the majority of former Panthers we have brought in have been competing against for a roster spot... because they’re primarily DEPTH! 
 

It wasn’t meant to serve as a comparison to other teams, it was meant to be relative to the number of players that have come and gone over the 4 years McDermott has been here. I don’t need other teams to show that... I wasn’t arguing that 22 was a large or small number. 
 

If you want me to spend hours combing over every team a player has played for and drawing those connections across the league, I’m sure I can do it. It’ll take some time.

 

But ultimately here’s the thing... you claiming that they’ve signed and targeted an inordinate amount of Panthers is actually less relevant than my attempt at showing the numbers. You’re just claiming it, with literally no way to prove it’s quote on quote inordinate. You’re doing exactly what you’re accusing me of doing... 

The Bills have signed or traded for an inordinately large number of Carolina players who actually made the Carolina roster.  This is not actually debatable. Whether it’s good or bad is an entirely separate issue, and reasonable people can disagree about that. But when they’re signing the corpse of Josh Norman  (who was terrible in Washington) or trading for the non-blocking tight end version of Kelvin Benjamin, you know it’s a thing.

[BillsFan130]

Well this is an entertaining discussion ^

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

Why do they have to have at least 1 year of experience? I’m not exactly sure why that’s relevant? And most camp signings have been around for 1+ years? Depth can be in he league for 0 years or 10 years... I didn’t realize it had to be 1 year as declared by BADOLBILZ. 
 

How do we know that? Simply because you say that it’s an inordinate amount? Because the media says “Panthers connection” every time we sign someone who played in Carolina? 
 

You’re arguing with me about something I’m not even arguing about... I’m not saying they haven’t signed a lot of Panthers... but relative to the number of players they’ve brought in, and yes, the vast majority of Panthers players we have brought in have been depth, the number isn’t that large. 
 

When you say they don’t live up to their billing, I don’t understand how a depth signing, signed at the league minimum can’t live up to their billing? The reason all of those players are relevant is because that’s who the majority of former Panthers we have brought in have been competing against for a roster spot... because they’re primarily DEPTH! 
 

It wasn’t meant to serve as a comparison to other teams, it was meant to be relative to the number of players that have come and gone over the 4 years McDermott has been here. I don’t need other teams to show that... I wasn’t arguing that 22 was a large or small number. 
 

If you want me to spend hours combing over every team a player has played for and drawing those connections across the league, I’m sure I can do it. It’ll take some time.

 

But ultimately here’s the thing... you claiming that they’ve signed and targeted an inordinate amount of Panthers is actually less relevant than my attempt at showing the numbers. You’re just claiming it, with literally no way to prove it’s quote on quote inordinate. You’re doing exactly what you’re accusing me of doing... 

Large or small number compared to what?

 

Yes, the Bills have signed more UDFA and camp trash than they have former Panthers. What does that prove?

[JGMcD2]

17 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Large or small number compared to what?

 

Yes, the Bills have signed more UDFA and camp trash than they have former Panthers. What does that prove?

That’s exactly what I am saying... folks like BADOL is saying the Bills have brought in an inordinate amount of Panthers... by definition that means unusually or disproportionately large; excessive.
 

I’m making an attempt here to find out if that is true, but you can’t just it’s inordinate with no comparison either. Then it’s just because you said so. 
 

It’s not an easy process to scrape everything together to figure it out in comparison to all other teams. 
 

The point of that is that most of the Panthers players brought in have been back end of the roster players... competing with those UDFA and depth signings for the final few spots on the roster. The majority of them have been depth signings... that some how have been major a disappointment to BADOL. It’s just a loaded statement. “Of the 22 Panthers McBeane have brought in, only 2 have panned out.” Well for the average reader they go, “what, that’s so bad. Those guys are idiots.” But 17 of those guys have just been depth, they’ve come in and out like camp fodder. 5 have really seriously been expected to start. That’s the point. 
 

I probably didn’t phrase my analysis properly but at least it’s a step towards actually conceptualizing the word inordinate and not just saying it and believing it’s true. 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

That’s exactly what I am saying... folks like BADOL is saying the Bills have brought in an inordinate amount of Panthers... by definition that means unusually or disproportionately large; excessive.
 

I’m making an attempt here to find out if that is true, but you can’t just it’s inordinate with no comparison either. Then it’s just because you said so. 
 

It’s not an easy process to scrape everything together to figure it out in comparison to all other teams. 
 

The point of that is that most of the Panthers players brought in have been back end of the roster players... competing with those UDFA and depth signings for the final few spots on the roster. The majority of them have been depth signings... that some how have been major a disappointment to BADOL. It’s just a loaded statement. “Of the 22 Panthers McBeane have brought in, only 2 have panned out.” Well for the average reader they go, “what, that’s so bad. Those guys are idiots.” But 17 of those guys have just been depth, they’ve come in and out like camp fodder. 5 have really seriously been expected to start. That’s the point. 
 

I probably didn’t phrase my analysis properly but at least it’s a step towards actually conceptualizing the word inordinate and not just saying it and believing it’s true. 

As compared to other teams. Not as compared to camp trash.

 

Your comparison is basically erroneous because it's a comparison of a point nobody is talking about.

[BillsMafi$]

Today is Kenny Stills waiver claim day. 2 million owed to him if someone puts in a claim. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Process]

So when will we know who has claimed him, later today? Tomorrow?

[billsfan_34]

On 11/29/2020 at 12:16 PM, JGMcD2 said:

1) Sweetheart... I listed 12/20 that were depth type players... didn’t get into Kelvin Benjamin but he was included. 
 

2) The 360 number was perfectly fine considering that numerous players are released and added during training camp. If you want to spend the time to find the exact number, I’ll guarantee you it falls right around 360. I literally said ~360... that little squiggly thing means about...
 

3) Bad reading comprehension isn’t my issue. Math wasn’t bad, it was an estimate, I never gave a hard number. How was 20/360 wrong? What you want 5.5%, there I’ll give it to you. 
 

4) You protest too much... you protest basically everything. You harp on the same talking points on every thread. I’m not protesting the fact that they’ve brought in Panthers, I’m protesting the idiotic assertion that all of them were expected impact players and/or didn’t live up to their expectations. I mean if the 12 depth players didn’t live up to their roughly minimum salary expectations to fill out the back end of the roster then I guess you have a case. 

 

EDIT: Because I know you won't do it, I just went through the numbers.

 

340 unique players on the Bills roster from the start of 2017 (hey not bad for me guessing 360!)

 

22 unique former Carolina Panthers players on the Bills roster from the start of 2017 (I forgot about Andre Smith and Daryl Worley in my previous post, so I was short 2 players)

 

22/340 = 6.5% of players in the Bills organization since 2017 that are former Carolina Panthers.

 

My rough estimations were off by about 1%... a 1% error is really freaking good when you're just estimating...you caught me with my bad math.

 

Round of applause.

Well- theres that - guns a blazin’ - pew pew 

19 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's arbitrary because there is both zero perspective because you don't compare to other teams and because it's simply full of IRRELEVANT data points.

 

Every team is going to have bunches of new players with little or no actual NFL game experience so including those just serves to create a low number with no comparison to that of other teams.  

 

The only broad set of data that can begin to provide real perspective is the amount of players McBeane has signed or traded for with at least one year of NFL experience in that 4 year period.   

 

Then if you want to PROVE that figure is small.........you HAVE to show us how it relates to other teams over that period.........otherwise it's just a number without any perspective.

 

We all KNOW that the Bills under McBeane have targeted and signed an inordinate amount of former Panthers.    Why anyone would argue that is bizarre.  And I forgot Vernon Butler in the 2020 equation too.   You are the one defending a absolutely invalid position.........if you want to be a statistician do it right.

You argue a lot- cant you roll on over to the political area and get into some COVID talk? We are 8-3 and splitting hairs is lame.

[JGMcD2]

15 hours ago, FireChans said:

As compared to other teams. Not as compared to camp trash.

 

Your comparison is basically erroneous because it's a comparison of a point nobody is talking about.

Sure. 
 

We’ve brought in 22 former Panthers (not all of them were there with McDermott/Beane) 

 

I started putting the numbers together. 17 former Jets, 16 former Dolphins, 15 former Bengals, 14 former Ravens and Giants. 
 

It’s the most from a single team, we’ve brought in, but it’s hardly inordinate. I’m sure if I start looking at other teams there will be high marks. 
 

I guess what you’re not recognizing with the camp trash is about 12 of those former Panthers were competing with camp trash for a roster spot, and the next season when we found an upgrade they were let go... 

[JGMcD2]

Stills went unclaimed on Monday and is free to sign with anyone. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Stills went unclaimed on Monday and is free to sign with anyone. 

 

Texans might want him back. Fuller suspended for PEDs. 

[artmalibu]

33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Texans might want him back. Fuller suspended for PEDs. 

 

Funny thing is they would still be on the hook for 2 million that was due this year and would need to stat a new contract.  I dont think he would give a home town discount.

[ngbills]

If Brown is out then this makes sense for the Bills. Even as a 4th WR that can spread the field. He would open up things for Beasley and Diggs much more than Davis is ever going to. 

[HOUSE]

Wasn't he a singer in the 70s?

[Penfield45]

It’s actually shocking we have made no moves to try and improve our team through FA or the trade deadline 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

It’s actually shocking we have made no moves to try and improve our team through FA or the trade deadline 

 

 

We have very little cap space. 

[Process]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

Stills went unclaimed on Monday and is free to sign with anyone. 

Where did you see this? Just curious because I can't find any updates on stills. 

[JGMcD2]

1 minute ago, Process said:

Where did you see this? Just curious because I can't find any updates on stills. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/11/30/kenny-stills-clears-waivers/amp/

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

Sure. 
 

We’ve brought in 22 former Panthers (not all of them were there with McDermott/Beane) 

 

I started putting the numbers together. 17 former Jets, 16 former Dolphins, 15 former Bengals, 14 former Ravens and Giants. 
 

It’s the most from a single team, we’ve brought in, but it’s hardly inordinate. I’m sure if I start looking at other teams there will be high marks. 
 

I guess what you’re not recognizing with the camp trash is about 12 of those former Panthers were competing with camp trash for a roster spot, and the next season when we found an upgrade they were let go... 

 

 

In stats.........22 and then a drop-off to a field of 17, 16, 15, 14.........is the definition of "inordinate".

 

30% more Panthers than the next closest team isn't a thing.

 

Mmmkay.

 

As for your last point..........again.........no perspective to make it relevant.     Like how many of the "17 former Jets" were "competing with camp trash" etc..

 

Show your work if it matters to you.

 

In a league where the average player career is less than 3 seasons...........it's not "nothing" that 4 offseasons into their regime they signed 5 of their former Carolina players to play significant roles and tried to sign another in Greg Olsen.

 

 If they had actually gotten Olsen they could have easily been an opt-in(Lotulelei) and an injury(Norman) away from having 6 of THEIR former Panthers players in the same starting lineups for much of the season(Williams, Klein and Addison) and also had Butler and Marlowe playing 37% and 21% of the snaps............that's A LOT of playing time coming from players from one other team.........it's not a bunch of camp fodder as you'd like to present it.    

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Texans might want him back. Fuller suspended for PEDs. 

 

 

Well I guess we know how Fuller was staying on the field then.

[ogham26]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

If Brown is out then this makes sense for the Bills. Even as a 4th WR that can spread the field. He would open up things for Beasley and Diggs much more than Davis is ever going to. 

davis is pretty good but im all for adding another wr if they think he can help

[JGMcD2]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

In stats.........22 and then a drop-off to a field of 17, 16, 15, 14.........is the definition of "inordinate".

 

30% more Panthers than the next closest team isn't a thing.

 

Mmmkay.

 

As for your last point..........again.........no perspective to make it relevant.     Like how many of the "17 former Jets" were "competing with camp trash" etc..

 

Show your work if it matters to you.

 

In a league where the average player career is less than 3 seasons...........it's not "nothing" that 4 offseasons into their regime they signed 5 of their former Carolina players to play significant roles and tried to sign another in Greg Olsen.

 

 If they had actually gotten Olsen they could have easily been an opt-in(Lotulelei) and an injury(Norman) away from having 6 of THEIR former Panthers players in the same starting lineups for much of the season(Williams, Klein and Addison) and also had Butler and Marlowe playing 37% and 21% of the snaps............that's A LOT of playing time coming from players from one other team.........it's not a bunch of camp fodder as you'd like to present it.    

Dude, you keep contradicting yourself. 
 

You’re pounding the 22 number as if it means something super significant. Then you come down and talk about how only 5 of those signings were actually significant. That’s literally the point I was trying to make initially.

 

You can’t pump up the 22 number when only 5 of them were ever supposed to be serious contributors. It’s not like they went out and signed 22 former Panthers and with the intention of them all being starters and only 2 of them have proven worthwhile. Until this season they had signed 1 Panthers that was expected to be a starter, in Star.
 

Your whole thing was that the Carolina pipeline hasn’t been fruitful because they signed 22 of them and only 2 have proven worthwhile. Well 2/5 is a lot different than 2/22...
 

I’ll concede my analysis has been poorly constructed, your feedback has been more than fair on it. It was an attempt at adding context and putting it together quickly. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by JGMcD2

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said:

Dude, you keep contradicting yourself. 
 

You’re pounding the 22 number as if it means something super significant. Then you come down and talk about how only 5 of those signings were actually significant. That’s literally the point I was trying to make initially.

 

You can’t pump up the 22 number when only 5 of them were ever supposed to be serious contributors. It’s not like they went out and signed 22 former Panthers and with the intention of them all being starters and only 2 of them have proven worthwhile. Until this season they had signed 1 Panthers that was expected to be a starter, in Star.
 

Your whole thing was that the Carolina pipeline hasn’t been fruitful because they signed 22 of them and only 2 have proven worthwhile. Well 2/5 is a lot different than 2/22... 

They traded for another that was supposed to be starter and was out of league a year later.

[JGMcD2]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

They traded for another that was supposed to be starter and was out of league a year later.

Benjamin, Star, Williams, Addison, Norman (5). 
 

Butler, Marlowe and Klein weren’t signed to be starters. Klein I guess you can argue would technically be a starter even though we play with 2 LB WAY more often than not. 
 

I would say Benjamin and Norman are clear busts. 
 

Star and Butler have been ok, but leave a lot to be desired. 

Marlowe has been good in limited action. 

 

Williams, Addison, and Klein (now that he’s adjusted to playing a new position without TC) have made a substantial impact. 
 

Does someone want to point out who they would have acquired this off-season instead of those players? 
 

Because prior to this season they brought in Benjamin and Star to be starters and the other ~14 were depth. 

[Doc Brown]

59 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

It’s actually shocking we have made no moves to try and improve our team through FA or the trade deadline 

 

 

Darron Lee.  Duh.

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Wasn't he a singer in the 70s?

yes I think so

[OZBILLS]

Have the Chiefs signed him yet?

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

Dude, you keep contradicting yourself. 
 

You’re pounding the 22 number as if it means something super significant. Then you come down and talk about how only 5 of those signings were actually significant. That’s literally the point I was trying to make initially.

 

You can’t pump up the 22 number when only 5 of them were ever supposed to be serious contributors. It’s not like they went out and signed 22 former Panthers and with the intention of them all being starters and only 2 of them have proven worthwhile. Until this season they had signed 1 Panthers that was expected to be a starter, in Star.
 

Your whole thing was that the Carolina pipeline hasn’t been fruitful because they signed 22 of them and only 2 have proven worthwhile. Well 2/5 is a lot different than 2/22...
 

I’ll concede my analysis has been poorly constructed, your feedback has been more than fair on it. It was an attempt at adding context and putting it together quickly. 

 

 

Look........I never mentioned "the 22 number" and I never said only 5 of the signings were significant.

 

Star Lotulelei was signed for 5 years and $50M also..........and Kelvin Benjamin cost the Bills $8.5M in 2018 and he was utterly useless and dumped after 12 games.

 

Part of the context is that McBeane couldn't just pick any Carolina player off the Panthers roster or the rosters of Washington(Norman), New Orleans(Klein) or Dallas(Worley)..........the reason why the amount of ex McB Panthers has increased is because they had to wait for them to become expendable..........they have been on that Carolina waste product like white on rice.........it's only now that they can access a lot of them.

 

And it HASN'T been cheap.

 

That said............my point isn't to trash the signings..........I get it,  they want players they are familiar with and you don't need playmakers at every position........but honestly the juice hasn't been worth the squeeze so nobody should be alarmed at the criticism.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

Benjamin, Star, Williams, Addison, Norman (5). 
 

Butler, Marlowe and Klein weren’t signed to be starters. Klein I guess you can argue would technically be a starter even though we play with 2 LB WAY more often than not. 
 

I would say Benjamin and Norman are clear busts. 
 

Star and Butler have been ok, but leave a lot to be desired. 

Marlowe has been good in limited action. 

 

Williams, Addison, and Klein (now that he’s adjusted to playing a new position without TC) have made a substantial impact. 
 

Does someone want to point out who they would have acquired this off-season instead of those players? 
 

Because prior to this season they brought in Benjamin and Star to be starters and the other ~14 were depth. 

 

 

Klein is the 32nd highest paid off-ball LB in the NFL.........for perspective, every team employs AT LEAST 2 starting off-ball LB's.

 

If you include all the 3-4 teams with big money edge rushing LB's........Von Miller, Khalil Mack etc............Klein is STILL the 45th highest paid LB in football.

 

So by any definition he is receiving excellent starting pay for his position.

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Look........I never mentioned "the 22 number" and I never said only 5 of the signings were significant.

 

Star Lotulelei was signed for 5 years and $50M also..........and Kelvin Benjamin cost the Bills $8.5M in 2018 and he was utterly useless and dumped after 12 games.

 

Part of the context is that McBeane couldn't just pick any Carolina player off the Panthers roster or the rosters of Washington(Norman), New Orleans(Klein) or Dallas(Worley)..........the reason why the amount of ex McB Panthers has increased is because they had to wait for them to become expendable..........they have been on that Carolina waste product like white on rice.........it's only now that they can access a lot of them.

 

And it HASN'T been cheap.

 

That said............my point isn't to trash the signings..........I get it,  they want players they are familiar with and you don't need playmakers at every position........but honestly the juice hasn't been worth the squeeze so nobody should be alarmed at the criticism.

 

"And of the 20 or so former Carolina free agents they've tried since coming to Buffalo only Daryl Williams and Dean Marlowe have proven worth the investment so far. "

 

You did say this, which sparked my initial post ^

 

"If they had actually gotten Olsen they could have easily been an opt-in(Lotulelei) and an injury(Norman) away from having 6 of THEIR former Panthers players in the same starting lineups for much of the season(Williams, Klein and Addison) and also had Butler and Marlowe playing 37% and 21% of the snaps............that's A LOT of playing time coming from players from one other team.........it's not a bunch of camp fodder as you'd like to present it."   

 

Then you also pointed out who's playing significant snaps this season, while also throwing in some hypotheticals. Now I would say guys playing significant snaps like you laid out are significant signings, unless you have another definition? ^

 

Did they really wait for those players to become available? They didn't have any idea Norman would be released... they didn't jump all over signing AJ Klein in 2017 when he signed with the Saints? They released Marlowe once...I mean if Worley being signed to the practice squad isn't worth the squeeze then.. uh...

 

 

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Klein is the 32nd highest paid off-ball LB in the NFL.........for perspective, every team employs AT LEAST 2 starting off-ball LB's.

 

If you include all the 3-4 teams with big money edge rushing LB's........Von Miller, Khalil Mack etc............Klein is STILL the 45th highest paid LB in football.

 

So by any definition he is receiving excellent starting pay for his position.

Well then you need to factor in the true value of ALL starting off-ball LBs who are on rookie contracts, because their deals are below market value. 

 

You can't combine a free market and the cost controlled draft amounts... it doesn't represent true value. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by JGMcD2

[BADOLBILZ]

19 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

"And of the 20 or so former Carolina free agents they've tried since coming to Buffalo only Daryl Williams and Dean Marlowe have proven worth the investment so far. "

 

You did say this, which sparked my initial post ^

 

"If they had actually gotten Olsen they could have easily been an opt-in(Lotulelei) and an injury(Norman) away from having 6 of THEIR former Panthers players in the same starting lineups for much of the season(Williams, Klein and Addison) and also had Butler and Marlowe playing 37% and 21% of the snaps............that's A LOT of playing time coming from players from one other team.........it's not a bunch of camp fodder as you'd like to present it."   

 

Then you also pointed out who's playing significant snaps this season, while also throwing in some hypotheticals. Now I would say guys playing significant snaps like you laid out are significant signings, unless you have another definition? ^

 

Did they really wait for those players to become available? They didn't have any idea Norman would be released... they didn't jump all over signing AJ Klein in 2017 when he signed with the Saints? They released Marlowe once...I mean if Worley being signed to the practice squad isn't worth the squeeze then.. uh...

 

 

Well then you need to factor in the true value of ALL starting off-ball LBs who are on rookie contracts, because their deals are below market value. 

 

You can't combine a free market and the cost controlled draft amounts... it doesn't represent true value. 

 

 

After AJ Klein the next highest paid LB that is NOT still on their rookie contract is Kyler Fackrell at $4.6M.

 

That is a HUGE drop.

 

$6M is literally the point of demarcation for excellent starting LB pay.

 

You can throw in all the "rookie" starters.......he's still not being paid commensurate to a reserve using any curve or not.

 

Same goes for Josh Norman the NFL's 33rd highest paid CB.

 

These guys were NOT paid that kind of money to be reserves.

 

They have signed a lot of players with expectation of excellent starting performance and though we like the very recent play of Klein.........of all of those they have invested millions in only Daryl Williams has consistently met expectations.

 

It hasn't been a productive avenue for them.