What happened to the running game & establishing it????

[YattaOkasan]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

You are the worst type of troll, following people and exagrerating comments and the inability to let go.

 

Let me explain it again.  The Bills as much a fan as I am, generally the prior three years played for the most part very dull boring football.  They had a 25-23 record, were outscored badly in 2017-2018 and were ranked 30,29 & 23 on Offense.  2019 was an improvement, but also an easy schedule.  The didn't throw for 300 yards the first 48 games under McD.  If not my team, I would not have wanted to watch them.

 

I want to be exhilerated watching a football game and excited by the action on the field.  Yep the defense was good in 2019 (aided by a weak schedule), however the feeling often was "Don't make a mistyake on offense, we're going to be ultra conservative, and want to keep the game in the teens".  Anyone thinking that was not the case, is kidding themselves.

 

It was an honest take. 

The Pats game wasn't exciting enough?  I almost had a heart attack. 

 

Also to a previous post, do you really think our offense's decision to run the ball almost cost us that game and not the defense's inability to stop them on a pair of drives in the 2nd half?

[mannc]

Does anyone else think having John Brown heathy is one of the keys to this offense’s success?  This is the first time Brown seemed healthy in about a month and he was making plays everywhere...

Edited November 9, 2020 by mannc

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

The Pats game wasn't exciting enough?  I almost had a heart attack. 

 

Also to a previous post, do you really think our offense's decision to run the ball almost cost us that game and not the defense's inability to stop them on a pair of drives in the 2nd half?

I thought we easily should have hung 30+ on them.  

 

Knowing the defense is so so at best, you need to go out with that attitude.

 

Yes exciting as the score goes, but frustrating to allow a decimated NE team to stick around.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yes tongue is firmly in cheek as this is exactly what I have been talking about & expecting from the Bills.😜

 

They did what I have been posting & talking about for 2+ years.  

 

I am a Bills fan (as per my screen name) and have gone on & on about the need for passing & offense.  I have explained I knew nothing about Allen when drafted, outside #7 & that he needed to be a Franchise QB.  I wanted trial by fire & see them not baby him.  

 

Maybe the best thing that happened in retrospect was that McD just couldn't let go of his Peterman love and named him the starter in 2018, because if it was a capable veteran, maybe Allen would have been held back longer.

 

The Bills played the 32nd ranked pass defense, who had already allowed 2-400 yard passing games against them (and only one < 300).  This was exactly what the Bills needed to do & they did it.

 

I said in those threads 350 & 3 TD's minimum & had the bills scoring 38+ (and Seattle in the 30's).

 

This is exactly what they will need to do vs. Arizona too.  

 

Sure more running vs. Arizona, and some better protection for Allen too, won't hurt.

 

Today I do give game balls to Dabol & McD, as they coached exactly like I've been wanting them to.

 

And before you you get all prissy, I was the one in the thread asking what you predicted the Bills would go vs. NYJ, NE, Seattle & Arizona, I said 4-0.

No one cares

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

No one cares

Some seem to & have posted.....  If you don't care, move along.😜

[YattaOkasan]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I thought we easily should have hung 30+ on them.  

 

Knowing the defense is so so at best, you need to go out with that attitude.

 

Yes exciting as the score goes, but frustrating to allow a decimated NE team to stick around.

So only Seattle and San Fran hung 30 on them, and both those teams ran for 150+ yards.  They havent given up 300+ yards passing on the year (even to Seattle and KC).  Expecting us to be slinging it all over was just not realistic.

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Even if we had a bad QB, you still don't look a gift horse in the mouth (what does that even mean exactly) by NOT taking your chances throwing on a team giving 300+ pass yards to EVERYONE.  How a good coach like Pete doesn't recognize that is wild.  Then again he IS the guy who decided to not give the ball to Lynch on the 1 yard line and reuse a passing play the Pats had already seen...

Part of checking a horses health is looking in the mouth and inspecting the teeth because they’ll show signs of malnutrition and mistreatment. Basically means that it’s insulting and inappropriate to inspect a gift as though it’s a purchase. 

[Billsfan1972]

13 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

So only Seattle and San Fran hung 30 on them, and both those teams ran for 150+ yards.  They havent given up 300+ yards passing on the year (even to Seattle and KC).  Expecting us to be slinging it all over was just not realistic.

And they were without Gilmore too.  18 passes was playing scared.....

[YattaOkasan]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

And they were without Gilmore too.  18 passes was playing scared.....

So not going to address my points...  They are a good to very good pass defense (even without Gilmore).  Th teams that have hung 30+ on them did it on the ground (were at least 28 if we can catch one ball).  Keep up the crusade to pass more while the data says running was the correct choice.  

[colin]

4 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Why?   The Seattle backfield was ripe for the picking. 

 

You go for the easy fruit.  

 

 

 

looool, cmon brah the joke was shown in the first 3 words of the post!

[97bills]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I'm having fun with those who talk about the running game.  The Bills are fine, but their strength right now is their passing game & the 18 passes vs. NE, was playing it too close to the vest.

I’m glad we can pass it all over the place too and was pumped we showed them hawks what’s up. But in saying all that I’ve been around and watched enough football to no when playoffs get here you better be able to run the ball because you will be playing against better talent so you got to mix it up could you imagine playing Pittsburgh and them knowing your going to pass every down it would get ugly fast. Now don’t get me wrong having a franchise QB is way better then running the ball and playing good defense every year going 7-9 8-8. We’re just a few players away on defense and we’re a SB contender every year for a while anyway 

[PromoTheRobot]

What about the punting game? We aren't punting enough!

[gobills1212]

Someone get this guy a cookie - STAT!

Maybe its me, but this is akin to bragging about having common sense...

[Billsfan1972]

7 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

So not going to address my points...  They are a good to very good pass defense (even without Gilmore).  Th teams that have hung 30+ on them did it on the ground (were at least 28 if we can catch one ball).  Keep up the crusade to pass more while the data says running was the correct choice.  

Best defensive back wasn't playing, Denver missing much of their offense & every other team threw weill into the 200's.  Only Buffalo threw under 20 passes.  

 

Water under the bridge & a win, but I was concerned.

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

What about the punting game? We aren't punting enough!

Good idea, am starting a Punting thread!!!!😉

[TigerJ]

Yeah, all things being equal and not thinking about Seattle's defense, you want to run against them to keep the ball away from Russell Wilson.  Fortunately, the Bills understood things aren't all equal on the Seattle defense.  They're lousy versus the pass, and even though Buffalo hadn't done a great deal through the last few games, they know they still had the ability.  Weather conditions were ideal for passing on Sunday.  In retrospect, Pete Carroll made a bad call.

[1ManRaid]

56 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Part of checking a horses health is looking in the mouth and inspecting the teeth because they’ll show signs of malnutrition and mistreatment. Basically means that it’s insulting and inappropriate to inspect a gift as though it’s a purchase. 

 

Oh so basically "you don't count the money from the mafia guy/drug deal".

[Buffalo Junction]

15 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Oh so basically "you don't count the money from the mafia guy/drug deal".

Does the mafia give things away for free now?

[1ManRaid]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Does the mafia give things away for free now?

 

No, but it's considered insulting (because you're showing you don't trust them) to count the money they give you as a payment for whatever.

[Einstein's Dog]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I am a Bills fan (as per my screen name) and have gone on & on about the need for passing & offense.  I have explained I knew nothing about Allen when drafted, outside #7 & that he needed to be a Franchise QB.  I wanted trial by fire & see them not baby him.  

 

Maybe the best thing that happened in retrospect was that McD just couldn't let go of his Peterman love and named him the starter in 2018, because if it was a capable veteran, maybe Allen would have been held back longer.

 

 

As you state, you knew nothing about Josh, so let me fill you in.  He was viewed as a raw QB with outstanding tools.  He was considered one of the highest traditional ceiling QBs to come out in years (arm strength, height, athleticism) but behind in almost all other categories - such as time in D1 program, reading Ds, accuracy %, etc.  He was going to need time to develop.  A lot of fans here were upset with the pick, in part, because they are impatient, and one risk of taking a raw QB is the time element of determining if he is actually a franchise QB.  Many said "wrong Josh" because Rosen had a higher floor and was thought to be a quicker fix.  The FO took a huge risk in selecting JA,  put their careers at stake pretty much.

 

When you write above about your desire for "trial by fire" your ignorance on Josh's predraft status works against you.  Josh needed to be developed.  The fear when Josh got thrown to the wolfes was it could have ruined him - he wasn't ready. 

 

As for your ridiculous hindsight criticism of what happened in retrospect, lets not forget the other side of the coin.  The Mahomes model of waiting a year behind Alex Smith didn't turn out too bad- and he wasn't considered as raw as Allen coming out.

 

Quit congratulating yourself that you finally see the Josh everyone hoped would develop.  He wasn't ready for this 2+ years ago.  Will you ever give this coaching staff credit for the development of Josh?

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

As you state, you knew nothing about Josh, so let me fill you in.  He was viewed as a raw QB with outstanding tools.  He was considered one of the highest traditional ceiling QBs to come out in years (arm strength, height, athleticism) but behind in almost all other categories - such as time in D1 program, reading Ds, accuracy %, etc.  He was going to need time to develop.  A lot of fans here were upset with the pick, in part, because they are impatient, and one risk of taking a raw QB is the time element of determining if he is actually a franchise QB.  Many said "wrong Josh" because Rosen had a higher floor and was thought to be a quicker fix.  The FO took a huge risk in selecting JA,  put their careers at stake pretty much.

 

When you write above about your desire for "trial by fire" your ignorance on Josh's predraft status works against you.  Josh needed to be developed.  The fear when Josh got thrown to the wolfes was it could have ruined him - he wasn't ready. 

 

As for your ridiculous hindsight criticism of what happened in retrospect, lets not forget the other side of the coin.  The Mahomes model of waiting a year behind Alex Smith didn't turn out too bad- and he wasn't considered as raw as Allen coming out.

 

Quit congratulating yourself that you finally see the Josh everyone hoped would develop.  He wasn't ready for this 2+ years ago.  Will you ever give this coaching staff credit for the development of Josh?

An emphatic NO.....  They showed their pigheadedness by naming Peterman the starter in 2018 (a proven qb like Fitz would have made much more sense).  This is the old adage that we've heard over & over defending McD and his decisions & I disagree with them.  

 

I read the same things, however they drafted him and were prepared to have him sit behind Peterman for how long?  They were incredibly lucky week 1 was Baltimore & Peterman went 5-18 24 yards, 2 Ints & 2 sacks or his development would have been slower.

 

Where we are now I'm excited about.  

[Einstein's Dog]

12 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

An emphatic NO.....  They showed their pigheadedness by naming Peterman the starter in 2018 (a proven qb like Fitz would have made much more sense).  This is the old adage that we've heard over & over defending McD and his decisions & I disagree with them.  

 

I read the same things, however they drafted him and were prepared to have him sit behind Peterman for how long?  They were incredibly lucky week 1 was Baltimore & Peterman went 5-18 24 yards, 2 Ints & 2 sacks or his development would have been slower.

 

Where we are now I'm excited about.  

Pigheadedness?  Josh was a raw draft pick, who they wanted to develop.  They were in a rebuild.  For anyone who was listening it was obvious, a "process". 

 

Now, you claim you're not ignorant on predraft Josh, just feigning it when convenient.  Everyone said he needed development, you just didn't believe it?  We don't know how long exactly he would sat, but you are speculating with regards to his development.  Did it hurt Mahomes to sit for a year?

 

Glad to hear you are being entertained and excited.  It is much better than the negativity you were spreading after the most meaningful win of the decade last week.

 

The next step for you (and your ilk) is to give the FO its due.  Your disagreements with the FOs QB draft pick, development plan, and team direction just start looking more and more foolish each week.

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Pigheadedness?  Josh was a raw draft pick, who they wanted to develop.  They were in a rebuild.  For anyone who was listening it was obvious, a "process". 

 

Now, you claim you're not ignorant on predraft Josh, just feigning it when convenient.  Everyone said he needed development, you just didn't believe it?  We don't know how long exactly he would sat, but you are speculating with regards to his development.  Did it hurt Mahomes to sit for a year?

 

Glad to hear you are being entertained and excited.  It is much better than the negativity you were spreading after the most meaningful win of the decade last week.

 

The next step for you (and your ilk) is to give the FO its due.  Your disagreements with the FOs QB draft pick, development plan, and team direction just start looking more and more foolish each week.

And I had a thread that said just that after week 4, and then admit it we had a 4 week regression.  

 

As for the FO I never question or post on acquisitions.

 

I only questioned their dismantling of the offense in 2017, which btw ranked right at the bottom of the league the prior 3 years.  

 

You don't hold McD at all responsible for that?

Edited November 9, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[Like A Mofo]

There is a reason I really like Daboll. He adapts to the matchup, not making the players just adapt to what he wants.

 

Would love to see Buffalo hang onto him as long as possible but I think the odds of Daboll being our OC in 2021 are very very slim.

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And I had a thread that said just that after week 4, and then admit it we had a 4 week regression.  

 

As for the FO I never question or post on acquisitions.

 

I only questioned their dismantling of the offense in 2017, which btw ranked right at the bottom of the league the prior 3 years.  

 

You don't hold McD at all responsible for that?

McD was doing a rebuild.  Doing it by shoring up the D and getting a franchise QB.

 

You seem to nitpick on the small items missing the big picture.  The team is on the rise, year over year.  First playoffs, now franchise QB, odds on division winner.  Add in a couple playoff victories and this year is a big success, and yet you seem to be fixated on the small, fringe, somewhat inconsequential details.

[Bob in STL]

8 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yes tongue is firmly in cheek as this is exactly what I have been talking about & expecting from the Bills.😜

 

They did what I have been posting & talking about for 2+ years.  

 

I am a Bills fan (as per my screen name) and have gone on & on about the need for passing & offense.  I have explained I knew nothing about Allen when drafted, outside #7 & that he needed to be a Franchise QB.  I wanted trial by fire & see them not baby him.  

 

Maybe the best thing that happened in retrospect was that McD just couldn't let go of his Peterman love and named him the starter in 2018, because if it was a capable veteran, maybe Allen would have been held back longer.

 

The Bills played the 32nd ranked pass defense, who had already allowed 2-400 yard passing games against them (and only one < 300).  This was exactly what the Bills needed to do & they did it.

 

I said in those threads 350 & 3 TD's minimum & had the bills scoring 38+ (and Seattle in the 30's).

 

This is exactly what they will need to do vs. Arizona too.  

 

Sure more running vs. Arizona, and some better protection for Allen too, won't hurt.

 

Today I do give game balls to Dabol & McD, as they coached exactly like I've been wanting them to.

 

And before you you get all prissy, I was the one in the thread asking what you predicted the Bills would go vs. NYJ, NE, Seattle & Arizona, I said 4-0.

 

So McDermott did not coach soft, passive and weak this game?   Right ?  

7 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Damn right.  Because those who jump on me & my posts, miss that I am a huge Bills fan & am pointing out issues I see, mostly on coaching, and then a game like this where they do what I have said they should.  Oh and a decisive win to boot!!!!

 

Yep I deserve a good pat on the back.....😜

I’m betting you have a good community reputation too. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

7 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

one of Pete's flaws 

 

I never did like Pete Carroll but I sure lost a of of respect for him as a football coach.  He is inability to make timely game time adjustments was stunning.  And when he said he didnt recognize his defense, that is like a Rex Ryan dumbass admission.

[ColoradoBills]

4 hours ago, mannc said:

Does anyone else think having John Brown heathy is one of the keys to this offense’s success?  This is the first time Brown seemed healthy in about a month and he was making plays everywhere...

 

Thank you for a sane post about all of this.

There is also some mounting evidence that Josh's shoulder was a little bit more banged up than we all thought.

 

Well coached teams scheme according to their opponent that week.

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, Bob in STL said:

 

So McDermott did not coach soft, passive and weak this game?   Right ?  

Yes I said it in that thread.  Hopefully this is portend of things to come.

 

Anyone who did not think other games he seemed passive and reactive, were watching different games then me.

 

I want to see the same this week vs. Arizona.

 

BTW kudos to the coaching staff this week.  

[LABILLBACKER]

8 hours ago, TroutDog said:

Agree that you can make that argument but it worked. Seems clear to me that Daboll is designing game plans specifically against the opponents weaknesses...the ‘take what they give you’ approach. I don’t have an issue with that. 

As well he should. Yesterday was classic Bill Belichick attacking a teams greatest weakness. If Brian Daboll learned only one thing from Bill it was this. And I'll even give Sean a huge kudo for bringing more pressure all day. Even with giving up 34 (should've been 27 Taron) that was the best all around 4 quarter effort in the last 3 years. Now study Arizona and capture their weakness. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yes I said it in that thread.  Hopefully this is portend of things to come.

 

Anyone who did not think other games he seemed passive and reactive, were watching different games then me.

 

I want to see the same this week vs. Arizona.

 

BTW kudos to the coaching staff this week.  

 

I think you may want to use another word.  Portend could mean something bad is about to happen too.

Then again that might be what you mean.

[RoyBatty is alive]

6 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

I was blown away to hear about Pete Carrol admitting they expected us to just run on them, when they have the worst pass D in the league?  Seems like disrespecting Allen and thinking the first 4 games were a grand fluke.  If that's the case they deserve the fat L.

 

 

I was as well.  I would put the blame on the Seahwaks horrible showing on him, they didnt think to many and adjustments until later in the game, after Allen was torching them?  This is one of the few cases where i have a high degree of confidence to  put the blame on the head coach.

[mjt328]

The NFL's most consistent team over the last 20 years (New England) was built to have balance, so they can attack the opponent's weaknesses.

 

I've watched many pass-heavy teams over the years, who failed to get homefield advantage and then ran into problems during January playoff season.  I've watched many run-heavy teams get steamrolled because their defense let up too many points, and they had to abandon their normal offensive attack.

 

It's pretty awesome to see us go 2-0 in consecutive weeks... with one being very run heavy, and the second being almost all passing.  

 

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Some seem to & have posted.....  If you don't care, move along.😜

You should rename the title to “Look at me!!”

[TroutDog]

11 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

As well he should. Yesterday was classic Bill Belichick attacking a teams greatest weakness. If Brian Daboll learned only one thing from Bill it was this. And I'll even give Sean a huge kudo for bringing more pressure all day. Even with giving up 34 (should've been 27 Taron) that was the best all around 4 quarter effort in the last 3 years. Now study Arizona and capture their weakness. 

I get it but recognizing what they’re doing is also a piece of the puzzle as fans. That was my point. 

[Bob in STL]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

An emphatic NO.....  They showed their pigheadedness by naming Peterman the starter in 2018 (a proven qb like Fitz would have made much more sense).  This is the old adage that we've heard over & over defending McD and his decisions & I disagree with them.  

 

I read the same things, however they drafted him and were prepared to have him sit behind Peterman for how long?  They were incredibly lucky week 1 was Baltimore & Peterman went 5-18 24 yards, 2 Ints & 2 sacks or his development would have been slower.

 

Where we are now I'm excited about.  

The plan was for AJ McCarron to be the starter, not Peterman.  Peterman was much better in camp and in preseason than McCarron and he won the job.   The plan was always for Allen to sit until ready.  
 

Getting Fitz was not an option that I remember even being there. 
 

If you must find blame, and you obviously do, then blame Beane for not bringing in a better veteran QB.  Then you can also criticize Andy Reid for keeping Mahommes on the bench a full year.   By your logic the Chiefs would have 2 Super Bowls by now, not one.  
 

 

[Billsfan1972]

7 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

The plan was for AJ McCarron to be the starter, not Peterman.  Peterman was much better in camp and in preseason than McCarron and he won the job.   The plan was always for Allen to sit until ready.  
 

Getting Fitz was not an option that I remember even being there. 
 

If you must find blame, and you obviously do, then blame Beane for not bringing in a better veteran QB.  Then you can also criticize Andy Reid for keeping Mahommes on the bench a full year.   By your logic the Chiefs would have 2 Super Bowls by now, not one.  
 

 

I used Fitz just as an example of a veteran place holder not a full season option.  Who cares if Peterman won the competition, he was not going to be the Bills QB for years to come.  I thought when you have no starter, then you go with the #7 overall  pick.   

 

With Mahomes, regardless you had an above average starter who put up #'s.  However the point was KC made the decision with Mahomes (again replaced a QB that the prior year went 10-6, over 4,000 yards, 26 TDs/5 Ints).   

[teef]

40 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

McD was doing a rebuild.  Doing it by shoring up the D and getting a franchise QB.

 

You seem to nitpick on the small items missing the big picture.  The team is on the rise, year over year.  First playoffs, now franchise QB, odds on division winner.  Add in a couple playoff victories and this year is a big success, and yet you seem to be fixated on the small, fringe, somewhat inconsequential details.

have you realized who you're dealing with yet?  

[Billsfan1972]

5 minutes ago, teef said:

have you realized who you're dealing with yet?  

Keep repeating the word "rebuild" & the McD mantra.

 

I'm rejoicing the win.  Maybe you should do the same.

[teef]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

Keep repeating the word "rebuild" & the McD mantra.

 

I'm rejoicing the win.  Maybe you should do the same.

i never once mentioned the word, "rebuild".  i'm not sure why you did.  

 

i also enjoy every single win...not just the ones the end up with the qb throwing for 300 yards.

 

 

listen.  people have more than caught on to your posting.  you're a 48 yr old or so guy who complains on a message board who whines, (not discusses or even complains) when he doesn't get a win the way he's most entertained by.  when the bills do win that way, you can't wait to run on here an let everyone know you were right, and somehow made it happen.  

 

if this is your thing, you do you.  just don't be surprised by the responses.  after all, you are the guy who said he's rather have his qb throw for 300 yards in a loss, than an ugly win.  there's not much intelligent conversation to have after that, (and most posters now firmly realize this).

[Comebackkid]

You don't have a big ole ford truck in your driveway do you?   Used to be covered with a giant Bills wrap.   If not do you have a twin by chance..?