McD figured out the old saying "The Best Defense is a Good Offense"

[Billsfan1972]

Took a while, and yep turning the corner on him and like many here trying to temper my excitement.

 

Outside Oldmanfan and a few others, I'm wondering who else misses those 17-13 games and the offense going into "Prevent Offense" after halftime?

 

It was that Pittsburgh game and Duck Hodges that really exasperated me last year, and hope those days are behind the Bills.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[Kwai San]

Prevent Offense and Prevent Defense were the MAIN reason the Bills would ***** defeat from the Jaws Of Victory over and over......THAT was maddening.

 

Go BILLS!

[GunnerBill]

McDermott coaches to his talent. He is one of the best Head Coaches in the NFL outside the obvious big name Superbowl winners - Belichick, Reid, Payton, Harbaugh, Carroll. He will want to get some of the issues ironed out on defense and I'm sure he will, but he has always won games the way his talent allows him to.

[Don Otreply]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

McDermott coaches to his talent. He is one of the best Head Coaches in the NFL outside the obvious big name Superbowl winners - Belichick, Reid, Payton, Harbaugh, Carroll. He will want to get some of the issues ironed out on defense and I'm sure he will, but he has always won games the way his talent allows him to.

For the most part I agree, but he took it a little to far on occasion, but that is jmo. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Don Otreply said:

For the most part I agree, but he took it a little to far on occasion, but that is jmo. 
 

Go Bills!!!

 

The only games I think McDermott has really cost us as a Head Coach (other than those where Peterman played, which you might argue he cost us as the guy with final personnel say rather than coaching) are games he cost us by being too aggressive and letting Daboll and Josh keep throwing. Whether that was the Baltimore game where they kept exposing Josh to blitzes that he was struggling to anticipate and diagnose or the Houston playoff game where some here wish they'd run to win more in the second half. Personally I think both of those were good decisions because nothing mattered more than the development of Josh Allen to the point where we entered a Superbowl window. They have judged the development arch perfectly in my opinion.... even if that cost them a win or two along the way.

[Nihilarian]

To be honest the Bills are still not running the right offense to compliment the defense. 

 

This current Buffalo Bills fast, high scoring passing offense is exactly what hurts the defense as they now need to spend more time on the field. 

 

The Bills would be better off with that same high powered offense but also with a ground and pound run game to eat the clock when needed. Add that Titans run game to the Bills offense and it would truly be perfect.

 

When they face  a team like the Ravens who had Josh Allen under constant pressure all game last season by blitzing 50-65%. The Bills could start by pounding the ball and wearing them out and then open up that high scoring passing attack. JMO

[Don Otreply]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The only games I think McDermott has really cost us as a Head Coach (other than those where Peterman played, which you might argue he cost us as the guy with final personnel say rather than coaching) are games he cost us by being too aggressive and letting Daboll and Josh keep throwing. Whether that was the Baltimore game where they kept exposing Josh to blitzes that he was struggling to anticipate and diagnose or the Houston playoff game where some here wish they'd run to win more in the second half. Personally I think both of those were good decisions because nothing mattered more than the development of Josh Allen to the point where we entered a Superbowl window. They have judged the development arch perfectly in my opinion.... even if that cost them a win or two along the way.

I’m not adamant about saying he did this or that wrong, just that on occasion he played more conservative than was warranted, and Josh’s progress as a quarterback has been frankly, fantastic, but that is painfully obvious imo. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[Whitey13]

Clicked on this thread from the home screen to see who wrote it and was not shocked at the submitter. It's almost clockwork at this point.

 

To your question about who misses those types of games, I do to an extent. Unlike what you've continually tried to press on this board about only caring about a high octane offense I care more about the Bills winning even if it's ugly. At least during a 17-13 win I wasn't worried about our Defense getting walked all over regardless of if Defenses are down across the league. 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

McDermott coaches to his talent. He is one of the best Head Coaches in the NFL outside the obvious big name Superbowl winners - Belichick, Reid, Payton, Harbaugh, Carroll. He will want to get some of the issues ironed out on defense and I'm sure he will, but he has always won games the way his talent allows him to.

[teef]

for the love of god get over it.  we have a 48 year old man, (i'm assuming) who only likes winning if the qb passes for over 300 yards.

 

remember, the op said he'd rather be entertained by a high scoring game than a win.  that was said.

[Royale with Cheese]

I honestly think 1972 billieves that McDermott was just sitting and his desk, drinking his coffee and it just hit him then that if we score 30 ppg rather than 19 ppg....we win more games.  

Like a similar reaction when Miles discovered how to use his Spiderman powers on command.

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I honestly think 1972 billieves that McDermott was just sitting and his desk, drinking his coffee and it just hit him then that if we score 30 ppg rather than 19 ppg....we win more games.  

Like a similar reaction when Miles discovered how to use his Spiderman powers on command.

he definitely woke up at 3 in the morning thinking, "you know what...let's start scoring more points".  

 

Bam.  more points.

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, teef said:

he definitely woke up at 3 in the morning thinking, "you know what...let's start scoring more points".  

 

Bam.  more points.

 

Why couldn't he have this revelation 3 years ago?   We probably would have won a Super Bowl by now.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Royale with Cheese

[teef]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Why couldn't he have this revelation 3 years ago?   We probably would have won a Super Bowl by now.

it probably took a lot of pressure from the fans and media.  after a while who wants to hear it?

[Bray Wyatt]

52 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

To be honest the Bills are still not running the right offense to compliment the defense. 

 

This current Buffalo Bills fast, high scoring passing offense is exactly what hurts the defense as they now need to spend more time on the field. 

 

The Bills would be better off with that same high powered offense but also with a ground and pound run game to eat the clock when needed. Add that Titans run game to the Bills offense and it would truly be perfect.

 

When they face  a team like the Ravens who had Josh Allen under constant pressure all game last season by blitzing 50-65%. The Bills could start by pounding the ball and wearing them out and then open up that high scoring passing attack. JMO

 

I think the exact opposite, getting out and scoring points and taking leads usually leads to teams passing more, which plays into the strength of our defense, our pass defense.  

[Stank_Nasty]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

McDermott coaches to his talent. He is one of the best Head Coaches in the NFL outside the obvious big name Superbowl winners - Belichick, Reid, Payton, Harbaugh, Carroll. He will want to get some of the issues ironed out on defense and I'm sure he will, but he has always won games the way his talent allows him to.

 

39 minutes ago, teef said:

for the love of god get over it.  we have a 48 year old man, (i'm assuming) who only likes winning if the qb passes for over 300 yards.

 

remember, the op said he'd rather be entertained by a high scoring game than a win.  that was said.

 

25 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I honestly think 1972 billieves that McDermott was just sitting and his desk, drinking his coffee and it just hit him then that if we score 30 ppg rather than 19 ppg....we win more games.  

Like a similar reaction when Miles discovered how to use his Spiderman powers on command.

 

OP at his computer trying to make sense of what Gunner just said....

[teef]

5 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

 

 

 

OP at his computer trying to make sense of what Gunner just said....

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Took a while, and yep turning the corner on him and like many here trying to temper my excitement.

 

Outside Oldmanfan and a few others, I'm wondering who else misses those 17-13 games and the offense going into "Prevent Offense" after halftime?

 

It was that Pittsburgh game and Duck Hodges that really exasperated me last year, and hope those days are behind the Bills.

 

 

Remind me, did he wait till this year to draft Josh Allen?

 

Yeah, he figured it out ...

 

Probably around the year 2000 or so.

 

The reason we have offense now is because they've been working on it like crazy men since they got here. And Allen finally hit the tipping point. And of course, they've been working on the defense like crazy too. Because you've got to be good on both sides. Because the best offense is also a good defense. That works both ways.

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

McDermott coaches to his talent. He is one of the best Head Coaches in the NFL outside the obvious big name Superbowl winners - Belichick, Reid, Payton, Harbaugh, Carroll. He will want to get some of the issues ironed out on defense and I'm sure he will, but he has always won games the way his talent allows him to.

 

 

Yes.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Thurman#1

[aristocrat]

Nobody hates the offense being great. But it would be nice if the defense could make some stops. I do think they will figure it out as the season goes on but in the playoffs points can be tough to come by and the d needs to slow the opponent down. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Nobody hates the offense being great. But it would be nice if the defense could make some stops. I do think they will figure it out as the season goes on but in the playoffs points can be tough to come by and the d needs to slow the opponent down. 

 

It does. But the Chiefs showed again last year what is almost more important is to have a D that takes the ball away. The encouraging thing about the 2nd half on Sunday was that while we still weren't a great 3rd down defense (and that definitely needs work) we made a 4th down stop for a turnover on downs and forced a fumble. When you have an explosive offense the main thing your D needs to do is steal it extra possessions.

[H2o]

The OP's internal battle....

[Einstein's Dog]

20 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Nobody hates the offense being great. But it would be nice if the defense could make some stops. I do think they will figure it out as the season goes on but in the playoffs points can be tough to come by and the d needs to slow the opponent down. 

To be fair, the D has made some big 4th down stops.  Pretty much showing some moxie and desire out of a D made more for stopping the pass, they came up big more than once.  Our apposing D's really haven't stopped us on the big 4th downs.  So we've got that going for us.

 

Also, the end of the Raiders game gives hope.  Could be a change of attitude with Norman back, a little more physical and turnover inducing.

[Jobot]

I think some people don't understand what the word 'rebuild' means, or what it looks like over several seasons...

 

Idiotic to think that McDermott's end goal for the offense was what you saw any of the past few years or even what today's offense looks like.

[StHustle]

3 hours ago, Kwai San said:

Prevent Offense and Prevent Defense were the MAIN reason the Bills would ***** defeat from the Jaws Of Victory over and over......THAT was maddening.

 

Go BILLS!

 

Lol at ***** being blocked by the filters. 

[Kwai San]

2 minutes ago, StHustle said:

 

Lol at ***** being blocked by the filters. 

 

Pretty funny I didn't notice that!!!!

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Took a while, and yep turning the corner on him and like many here trying to temper my excitement.

 

Outside Oldmanfan and a few others, I'm wondering who else misses those 17-13 games and the offense going into "Prevent Offense" after halftime?

 

It was that Pittsburgh game and Duck Hodges that really exasperated me last year, and hope those days are behind the Bills.

 

Actually, what people told you last year is that McDermott coached defensive games because that was the strength of the team. We also told you that if Allen developed and offensive talent was added he would let the offense lead the way, and that he was not a conservative coach like you said. Lo and behold that's exactly what happened and you're using it as evidence to say you were right all along?

[Billsfan1972]

Here we go again about McD is smarter then all the rest and that this was al;ways the plan and he's had it mapped out since Day 1......  

 

I admit he is growing on me and doing some very good things, but I will not get off that regardless of two WC appearences, the team's record going into this year was 25-23 under him.  

 

I will also state that he has held Allen back and this could have been accelerated too.  Look at how quick Burrows & Herbert are adapting and Josh to me was hamstrung to some extent years 1 & 2.  Conversely we quickly could make a decision on Rosen & probably know where Mayfield stands and shortly too with Darnold, Murray & Jones.....

 

Without Allen & if the Bills played Offense like they did in 2019, they are at best 2-2.  

Edited October 8, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Here we go again about McD is smarter then all the rest and that this was al;ways the plan and he's had it mapped out since Day 1......  

 

I admit he is growing on me and doing some very good things, but I will not get off that regardless of two WC appearences, the teams record going into this year was 25-23 under him.  

 

I will also state that he has held Allen back and this could have been accelerated too.  Look at how quick Burrows & Herbert are adapting and Josh to me was hamstrung to some extent years 1 & 2.  Conversely we quickly could make a decision on Rosen & probably know where Mayfield stands and shortly too with Darnold, Murray & Jones.....

 

Without Allen & if the Bills played Offense like they did in 2019, they are at best 2-2.  

 

This is all nonsense, except for the bolded part.

Edited October 8, 2020 by {::'KayCeeS::}

[Billsfan1972]

7 minutes ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said:

 

This is all nonsense.

Explain?  I have an opinion.....  Yep could be right or wrong.  Many here do exactly what I do, write responses that fit their narrative.

 

I say "the Bills offense & passing near the bottom since McD took over", which is a fact.

 

You say "McD had no weapons and was a genious with what he had and a stout defense"

 

I say "Josh Allen could be further ahead given some weapons and a coaching philosophy to score points"

 

You say "McD protected Allen because he wasn't ready and see what's happened in 2020"

 

And at least I am coming around on McD, but still think way too many here drank the McD Koolaid and were happy with one of the worst offenses in the NFL for 3 STRAIGHT SEASONS....

 

Bring it on......

Edited October 8, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Explain?  I have an opinion.....  Yep could be right or wrong.  Many here do exactly what I do, write responses that fit their narrative.

 

I say "the Bills offense & passing near the bottom since McD took over", which is a fact.

 

You say "McD had no weapons and was a genious with what he had and a stout defense"

 

I say "Josh Allen could be further ahead given some weapons and a coaching philosophy to score points"

 

You say "McD protected Allen because he wasn't ready and see what's happened in 2020"

 

And at least I am coming around on McD, but still think way too many here drank the McD Koolaid and were happy with one of the worst offenses in the NFL for 3 STRAIGHT SEASONS....

 

Bring it on......

 

Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

The current state of the franchise speaks for itself.

 

You're just borderline trolling.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, {::'KayCeeS::} said:

 

Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

The current state of the franchise speaks for itself.

 

You're just borderline trolling.

 

 

Actually I'm giddy about the first 4 weeks.  I'm very happy with McD & the coaching staff. 

 

Just saying I was so frustrated prior and wonder if it could have happened sooner.

 

Waiting for the first person to  say "THE PROCESS".....😜 

[teef]

14 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Actually I'm giddy about the first 4 weeks.  I'm very happy with McD & the coaching staff. 

 

Just saying I was so frustrated prior and wonder if it could have happened sooner.

 

Waiting for the first person to  say "THE PROCESS".....😜 

i think we're all just shocked that you don't understand why this didn't happen sooner.  you seem to think 100% of it is on coaching.  many of us don't feel that way. 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

McDermott coaches to his talent. He is one of the best Head Coaches in the NFL outside the obvious big name Superbowl winners - Belichick, Reid, Payton, Harbaugh, Carroll. He will want to get some of the issues ironed out on defense and I'm sure he will, but he has always won games the way his talent allows him to.

 

 

He's got "the gleam" of a modern-day Marty Schottenheimer.

 

McD is clearly not yet good in the heat of the battle on gameday itself......and Marty never was either.....but they both leave no stone left unturned in between and get consistent effort and focus and respect from their players.  

 

Marty was clearly a notch below the all-time greats and mocked a lot here on TSW for his playoff choke jobs.......he had a number of moments like McD's Houston meltdown........but if he had the better QB he probably gets to multiple SB's.

 

I have also been consistent with my Elway comp for Allen.........which I find interesting because Elway foiled Marty so many times in big games.

 

Give Marty John Elway at QB in the 80's and things might have been very different.   

 

Bill Cowher is also a good comp.   He eventually broke thru when he got a young, future HOF QB. 

[teef]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He's got "the gleam" of a modern-day Marty Schottenheimer.

 

McD is clearly not yet good in the heat of the battle on gameday itself......and Marty never was either.....but they both leave no stone left unturned in between and get consistent effort and focus and respect from their players.  

 

Marty was clearly a notch below the all-time greats and mocked a lot here on TSW for his playoff choke jobs.......he had a number of moments like McD's Houston meltdown........but if he had the better QB he probably gets to multiple SB's.

 

I have also been consistent with my Elway comp for Allen.........which I find interesting because Elway foiled Marty so many times in big games.

 

Give Marty John Elway at QB in the 80's and things might have been very different.   

 

Bill Cowher is also a good comp.   He eventually broke thru when he got a young, future HOF QB. 

where have you been psycho?

[Billsfan1972]

36 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He's got "the gleam" of a modern-day Marty Schottenheimer.

 

McD is clearly not yet good in the heat of the battle on gameday itself......and Marty never was either.....but they both leave no stone left unturned in between and get consistent effort and focus and respect from their players.  

 

Marty was clearly a notch below the all-time greats and mocked a lot here on TSW for his playoff choke jobs.......he had a number of moments like McD's Houston meltdown........but if he had the better QB he probably gets to multiple SB's.

 

I have also been consistent with my Elway comp for Allen.........which I find interesting because Elway foiled Marty so many times in big games.

 

Give Marty John Elway at QB in the 80's and things might have been very different.   

 

Bill Cowher is also a good comp.   He eventually broke thru when he got a young, future HOF QB. 

Again when McD is agressive & wins I will applaud him.  Conservative McD, not so much. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Actually I'm giddy about the first 4 weeks.  I'm very happy with McD & the coaching staff. 

 

Just saying I was so frustrated prior and wonder if it could have happened sooner.

 

Waiting for the first person to  say "THE PROCESS".....😜 

 

Yes. McD chose not to have a great offense. That checks out. 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again when McD is agressive & wins I will applaud him.  Conservative McD, not so much. 

 

 

Marty-ball used to be not-so-secret code for conservative football.........especially in the playoffs where Marty coached his usually much more talented teams into surprisingly close games and put them in unnecessarily pressure packed situations where they were then more worried about losing than focused on winning.   It eventually took on a life of it's own with the Chargers where his teams just panicked in the playoffs.

 

I am not sure that McD will continue to fall into that trap............I think the lessons learned and analytics gathered from decades of guys like Marty and Cowher and even Andy Reid having teams underachieve in the playoffs should and will serve as motivation for McD to not coach his team into unfavorable circutmstances.   I hope anyway.

 

[{::'KayCeeS::}]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Marty-ball used to be not-so-secret code for conservative football.........especially in the playoffs where Marty coached his usually much more talented teams into surprisingly close games and put them in unnecessarily pressure packed situations where they were then more worried about losing than focused on winning.   It eventually took on a life of it's own with the Chargers where his teams just panicked in the playoffs.

 

I am not sure that McD will continue to fall into that trap............I think the lessons learned and analytics gathered from decades of guys like Marty and Cowher and even Andy Reid having teams underachieve in the playoffs should and will serve as motivation for McD to not coach his team into unfavorable circutmstances.   I hope anyway.

 

 

If Allen keeps on playing like a BOSS, then it makes it easy for McD to keep the pedal to the medal in the playoffs.  I'm of the opinion that McD is a real coach, and just amplifies what he has in front of him.

[MJS]

In my opinion McDermott has always done what he needed to win. The past few years was defense and conservative offense, because that's what we had. We didn't have an offense that could put up tons of points.

 

Now we do.

[billybrew1]

7 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Took a while, and yep turning the corner on him and like many here trying to temper my excitement.

 

Outside Oldmanfan and a few others, I'm wondering who else misses those 17-13 games and the offense going into "Prevent Offense" after halftime?

 

It was that Pittsburgh game and Duck Hodges that really exasperated me last year, and hope those days are behind the Bills.

All of this, 100%, was just part of the process. He was bringing his QB along in every way imaginable. He cut him loose when Josh and the whole offense was ready. The timeline, Taking three years to build it is very good, imho. I think this kind of obvious when you look at the whole three years. You want your very young QB, ready and his offense, ready, when you give it your best shot (at creating a franchise QB.)

 

He did not surrender his defense very much in building the offense. The defense will come around if his players remain healthy.

 

The chefs make up is very much like that of the Bills. Both franchises spend a lot on defense and value it highly. The chefs D kept them close in the Super Bowl and again last week vs. the pats.

 

Offense only is just a big pile of bull-crap.