McD figured out the old saying "The Best Defense is a Good Offense"

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Obviously I saw different.  You & PFF saw the same thing.

 

I saw dropped balls, receivers seldom making a contested or difficult catch, undersized receivers, bad play calling putting Allen in difficult situations.....  

 

Read my 100+ posts thinking Allen would flourish with good coaching & playcalling.  Yep through four weeks in 2020, I am RIGHT!!!!!!

 

No. On the talent we saw the same. On the playcalling you are wrong and were wrong.

[Bray Wyatt]

9 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

You are thinking last years defense in which the Bills were 4th in passing yards allowed, 2nd in TDs allowed. The 2020 Bills defense so far is no where near as good as last season.

 

The 2020 Buffalo Bills are currently 17th in points allowed, 20th in yards allowed and an unbelievable 27th in passing yards allowed. 19th in yards allowed per pass attempt. 

 

Buffalo has been very lucky this season as Josh Allen is tearing it up! A lot on his own too. Think that Rams comeback on 3rd and 22.

 

Besides, the Bills will need that power run game come winter in the wind, blowing snow...home playoff games would be great.

Remember that 2017 Dec 10th game game against the Colts where neither team had 100 yards passing for the game? It was shady McCoy with 32 rushes for 156 yards and 1 TD that won that OT game. 

 

Just saying, that the Bills need to work that power run game more often this season. After all Singletary is averaging 4.3 yards per rush attempt and that could be higher with more touches. 

 

While that may be the stats so far in these 4 games, I am going over the larger sample size of McD's tenure here. I dont think much people have a problem saying our secondary is the strength of this team.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Marty's teams were NOT usually the most talented teams.

 

Player by players they were generally considerably less talented, but Marty got so much out of them that he could coach rosters that had no business being there into the playoffs. He had a lot of mediocre QBs through the years to work with and that didn't encourage him to open up the offense. The time he did have good personnel was that young Chargers team, and they lost to the Pats in the playoffs. Remember that awful play, the interception in the 4th quarter by SanDiego and the defender then fumbled during the runback and the Pats then continued the drive and scored a TD? Jeez. That was a very good Pats team, though they were outscored by the Colts in the Conference championship that year.

 

What you saw again and again with Marty is that he'd inherit a team that wasn't good, with few wins, immediately start winning more, and when he'd leave the next year the team would immediately regress.

 

Marty is undervalued.

 

And yeah, Cowher underachieved in the playoffs. Remind me how he did when they were able to draft Roethlisberger? A little better than when he was forced to use that endless stream of guys like Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Charlie Batch, Jim Miller, Bubby Brister, Kent Graham, Mike Tomczak and Tommy Maddox.

 

The problem for those guys wasn't so much conservative play as it was bad quarterbacking and in Schotty's case, lesser talent on the roster.

 

 

Unfortunately for Marty he is the patron saint of upset losses against the spread in the playoffs.

 

Vegas has a line stat that ranks Marty as the all-time underachieving coach in the post season with 4.3 wins below expectation. 

 

And he was 0-8 in 3 point games in the playoffs..........which the "modern equivalent" would now be 1 score games...........in which McDermott now finds himself 0-1.

 

That 0-8 is amazing and probably impossible to do without some bad luck.

 

I agree that it really mostly came down to being out-quarterbacked........10 of his 13 playoff losses were to future HOF QB's.

 

But he did very often have the more talented team overall..........he was very good at working in conjunction with his GM's to accumulate talent.

 

He had excellent personnel in Cleveland, KC and San Diego.

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I can't grasp what this opinion is based on. It violently contradicts what I saw with my eyes.

 

I don't even think it is that many. In the last decade there has been Indianapolis and there was the game vs the Jets that got moved because of snow to Detroit but was played in perfect conditions in the end..... maybe I am missing one other?

 

I am referencing any type of snow...like just flurries.  Those two you mentioned as far as were barely playable snow games.

The other real bad weather game was the Giants game where the rain was coming down hard (giggity) with a mixture of frozen rain.  We were up 14-0 early and stopped scoring.  A Giants player ran so fast that his decal came off his helmet.

[Royale with Cheese]

15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Obviously I saw different.  You & PFF saw the same thing.

 

I saw dropped balls, receivers seldom making a contested or difficult catch, undersized receivers, bad play calling putting Allen in difficult situations.....  

 

Read my 100+ posts thinking Allen would flourish with good coaching & playcalling.  Yep through four weeks in 2020, I am RIGHT!!!!!!

 

You are the biggest surface level thinker I've ever had the pleasure of reading.  

 

OMG, you said a QB would flourish with good coaching and playcalling.  What a revelation!  Is that a little secret only you know?

Same coaching staff by the way....

You equate execution 100% on coaching which is odd.

[oldmanfan]

On 10/8/2020 at 7:20 AM, Billsfan1972 said:

Took a while, and yep turning the corner on him and like many here trying to temper my excitement.

 

Outside Oldmanfan and a few others, I'm wondering who else misses those 17-13 games and the offense going into "Prevent Offense" after halftime?

 

It was that Pittsburgh game and Duck Hodges that really exasperated me last year, and hope those days are behind the Bills.

People who have actively rooted for the Bills to lose as you did all last year should not be allowed to post in this forum.

[BringBackFlutie]

21 hours ago, teef said:

i think we're all just shocked that you don't understand why this didn't happen sooner.  you seem to think 100% of it is on coaching.  many of us don't feel that way. 

 

There's no way this dude isn't playing all of us. 

[GreggTX]

That sentence starts with the word "Sometimes" because it's not always true.

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You are the biggest surface level thinker I've ever had the pleasure of reading.  

 

OMG, you said a QB would flourish with good coaching and playcalling.  What a revelation!  Is that a little secret only you know?

Same coaching staff by the way....

You equate execution 100% on coaching which is odd.

 

Yeah. I'm pretty sure talent factors into that equation somewhere.

[Nextmanup]

On 10/8/2020 at 7:34 AM, GunnerBill said:

McDermott coaches to his talent. He is one of the best Head Coaches in the NFL outside the obvious big name Superbowl winners - Belichick, Reid, Payton, Harbaugh, Carroll. He will want to get some of the issues ironed out on defense and I'm sure he will, but he has always won games the way his talent allows him to.

When you say McDermott is one of the best head coaches in the NFL, what do you mean exactly by that? 

 

A HC in the NFL has many widely differing job functions, and they are all important.  McD is good at some, average at others, poor at others still.   

 

As far as in game tactics go, I would put McDermott below average.  He has consistently and routinely failed to use the clock efficiently, often in key situations, he has gotten (I think) exactly 1 challenge called correctly out of all of them, routinely suffers through 3rd quarter slow downs (as the opposing coaching's adjustments take hold and McD hasn't adjusted to them nearly as well) and so on.  No one burns time when we need it at the end of the first half like McD.  

 

in contrast, I think he is a very effective motivator, I think he's organized, I think he gets the players/team prepared well, I think he gets the players to consistently play near their peak for an entire game, etc.  Things like that he does well.  

 

But if I am going into an important, single game like a Superbowl, I can think of a lot of HCs I'd rather have as the bench boss for the big dance.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

When you say McDermott is one of the best head coaches in the NFL, what do you mean exactly by that? 

 

A HC in the NFL has many widely differing job functions, and they are all important.  McD is good at some, average at others, poor at others still.   

 

As far as in game tactics go, I would put McDermott below average.  He has consistently and routinely failed to use the clock efficiently, often in key situations, he has gotten (I think) exactly 1 challenge called correctly out of all of them, routinely suffers through 3rd quarter slow downs (as the opposing coaching's adjustments take hold and McD hasn't adjusted to them nearly as well) and so on.  No one burns time when we need it at the end of the first half like McD.  

 

in contrast, I think he is a very effective motivator, I think he's organized, I think he gets the players/team prepared well, I think he gets the players to consistently play near their peak for an entire game, etc.  Things like that he does well.  

 

But if I am going into an important, single game like a Superbowl, I can think of a lot of HCs I'd rather have as the bench boss for the big dance.

 

I think his clock management has improved immeasurably and I think he makes good adjustments. I agree he is a bad challenger. You don't just have to challenge when you think you are right..... you have to challenge when you think they will overturn. The number of times he challenges the spot of the ball and they overturn those like 1 in 10 at absolute best.

[Billsfan1972]

4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You are the biggest surface level thinker I've ever had the pleasure of reading.  

 

OMG, you said a QB would flourish with good coaching and playcalling.  What a revelation!  Is that a little secret only you know?

Same coaching staff by the way....

You equate execution 100% on coaching which is odd.

No I state opinions and they have played out.  Call it surface level all you want , however as stated I pretty much supported Allen from day one and said let's see the Bills be more agressive on offense and see if he flourishes or not.  

 

You guys are all so excited about a 25-23 record and give all the credit to McD, when the prior 3 years they were 24-24 with what you called terrible coaching. 

 

You see what you want to see & I see what I want to see, however I saw this version of Allen well before this season & was pissed the staff I think held him back.

 

the Offense was ranked 30, 29 & 24 the first 3 McD seasons, and you seem pretty alright with that.  I wasn't.......

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No I state opinions and they have played out.  Call it surface level all you want , however as stated I pretty much supported Allen from day one and said let's see the Bills be more agressive on offense and see if he flourishes or not.  

 

You guys are all so excited about a 25-23 record and give all the credit to McD, when the prior 3 years they were 24-24 with what you called terrible coaching. 

 

You see what you want to see & I see what I want to see, however I saw this version of Allen well before this season & was pissed the staff I think held him back.

 

the Offense was ranked 30, 29 & 24 the first 3 McD seasons, and you seem pretty alright with that.  I wasn't.......

 

No one on this board was pretty all right with our offense and the points per game scoring.  Talk about coming out of left field.

 

You put 100% everything on coaching.  The players are accountable at all, in any way.  If everything is 100% on coaching, then you don't need a team with talent.

[Billsfan1972]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

No one on this board was pretty all right with our offense and the points per game scoring.  Talk about coming out of left field.

 

You put 100% everything on coaching.  The players are accountable at all, in any way.  If everything is 100% on coaching, then you don't need a team with talent.

No I did not give coaching & McD a pass like many of you did.  

 

A big difference.

 

[teef]

17 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No I state opinions and they have played out.  Call it surface level all you want , however as stated I pretty much supported Allen from day one and said let's see the Bills be more agressive on offense and see if he flourishes or not.  

 

You guys are all so excited about a 25-23 record and give all the credit to McD, when the prior 3 years they were 24-24 with what you called terrible coaching. 

 

You see what you want to see & I see what I want to see, however I saw this version of Allen well before this season & was pissed the staff I think held him back.

 

the Offense was ranked 30, 29 & 24 the first 3 McD seasons, and you seem pretty alright with that.  I wasn't.......

You keep mentioning records, yet you have one to acknowledge that mcd had brought this team to the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years, and has them fighting for the East this year.  The lens you choose to look at this through is childlike. 

2 hours ago, BringBackFlutie said:

 

There's no way this dude isn't playing all of us. 

I unfortunately don’t think this is the case. This is just the guys thought process. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

No I did not give coaching & McD a pass like many of you did.  

 

A big difference.

 

 

Not even close.  100% on coaching, no player accountability.  That's how you think.

[teef]

10 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Not even close.  100% on coaching, no player accountability.  That's how you think.

He must think Josh is the same player today that he was last year.  It just isn’t the case. 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, teef said:

He must think Josh is the same player today that he was last year.  It just isn’t the case. 

 

He actually believes McDermott didn't want to score points until this year.  

[teef]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He actually believes McDermott didn't want to score points until this year.  

He also thought that if buffalo allowed 7,000 fans in the stadium, 50,000 fans would show up to tailgate.   This is who we’re dealing with. 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Obviously I saw different.  You & PFF saw the same thing.

 

I saw dropped balls, receivers seldom making a contested or difficult catch, undersized receivers, bad play calling putting Allen in difficult situations.....  

 

Read my 100+ posts thinking Allen would flourish with good coaching & playcalling.  Yep through four weeks in 2020, I am RIGHT!!!!!!

 

So lets take a look at this little gem right here.

 

The bolded part....how is that on coaching?

 

 

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

He actually believes McDermott didn't want to score points until this year.  

I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe that if Allen can improve, so can the staff.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe that if Allen can improve, so can the staff.

 

Yes but he doesn't give any credit to the players.  He firmly believes the reason our offense is better is just because McDermott finally wants to score points.  He didn't want to last year.  He actually said these words.

[Royale with Cheese]

20 minutes ago, teef said:

He also thought that if buffalo allowed 7,000 fans in the stadium, 50,000 fans would show up to tailgate.   This is who we’re dealing with. 

 

Do you think he calls the remote the clicker?

[teef]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Do you think he calls the remote the clicker?

Probably calls jeans dungarees too. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

Probably calls jeans dungarees too. 

 

Probably has the stick figure window decals of his family on the back of his Subaru Forester.  

[teef]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Probably has the stick figure window decals of his family on the back of his Subaru Forester.  

Maybe a salt life sticker too?

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, teef said:

Maybe a salt life sticker too?

 

Yes on the other side.  

 

Do you think he owns his own bowling ball?

[teef]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yes on the other side.  

 

Do you think he owns his own bowling ball?

He would if he was part of a league, but no one seems to want him on their team. 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

He would if he was part of a league, but no one seems to want him on their team. 

Do you think it’s because he put his fingers in his mouth after getting handful after handful of the community nachos?

[Buffalo716]

@teef @Royale with Cheeseyou guys gotta stop cus I'm spitting out my tea

 

[Royale with Cheese]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

@teef @Royale with Cheeseyou guys gotta stop cus I'm spitting out my tea

 

Do you think he has an empty Mountain Dew bottle inside and empty Doritos bag laying on his floor board?  The cap is in the cup holder along with the 3 others.

[LABILLBACKER]

On 10/8/2020 at 4:49 AM, Nihilarian said:

To be honest the Bills are still not running the right offense to compliment the defense. 

 

This current Buffalo Bills fast, high scoring passing offense is exactly what hurts the defense as they now need to spend more time on the field. 

 

The Bills would be better off with that same high powered offense but also with a ground and pound run game to eat the clock when needed. Add that Titans run game to the Bills offense and it would truly be perfect.

 

When they face  a team like the Ravens who had Josh Allen under constant pressure all game last season by blitzing 50-65%. The Bills could start by pounding the ball and wearing them out and then open up that high scoring passing attack. JMO

We can't do that this year because clearly we don't have a strong run blocking OL. I'd love to get up 28-3 and then just shift into Singletary/ Moss gear but we don't have the OL to do this. We are literally going to have to outscore teams this season to 10-12 wins. Games will be high scoring and close every week.

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yes but he doesn't give any credit to the players.  He firmly believes the reason our offense is better is just because McDermott finally wants to score points.  He didn't want to last year.  He actually said these words.

Actually he wanted to play field position.  We saw that way too often.  He had a tight reign on Allen & the offense.  He seldom seemed to go for the jugualr.  The team barely tried to score above 20 points.  Anyone who didn't see that wasn't watching.

 

I'll never forget the Bills getting the ball from the Steelers with 2 monutes left 'til halftime and their only goal was to get a first down & run out the clock.  WHen they converted that third down, they celebrated as if they had scored a TD.  It was pathetic & highlighted the coaching philosophy in 2019, play between the 20's, mistakes, milk the the clock and we'll hope the defense stops them.

[mannc]

22 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I completely disagree with your characterisation of the Houston lost. It was a loss for execution failures by players who should have done better more than a loss for coaching in my opinion. There were 4 or 5 plays in that game and if players execute on any one of them (and they were not difficult plays, Brown, Williams, the three man block failure, the Milano failed wrap up and the coverage panic by Edmunds on 3rd and long) then the Bills move on. 

Did you have to bring that up?  I still get sick thinking about it. 

[Royale with Cheese]

32 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Actually he wanted to play field position.  We saw that way too often.  He had a tight reign on Allen & the offense.  He seldom seemed to go for the jugualr.  The team barely tried to score above 20 points.  Anyone who didn't see that wasn't watching.

 

I'll never forget the Bills getting the ball from the Steelers with 2 monutes left 'til halftime and their only goal was to get a first down & run out the clock.  WHen they converted that third down, they celebrated as if they had scored a TD.  It was pathetic & highlighted the coaching philosophy in 2019, play between the 20's, mistakes, milk the the clock and we'll hope the defense stops them.

You see messages in your alphabet soup don’t you?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Actually he wanted to play field position.  We saw that way too often.  He had a tight reign on Allen & the offense.  He seldom seemed to go for the jugualr.  The team barely tried to score above 20 points.  Anyone who didn't see that wasn't watching.

 

I'll never forget the Bills getting the ball from the Steelers with 2 monutes left 'til halftime and their only goal was to get a first down & run out the clock.  WHen they converted that third down, they celebrated as if they had scored a TD.  It was pathetic & highlighted the coaching philosophy in 2019, play between the 20's, mistakes, milk the the clock and we'll hope the defense stops them.

 

I just don't know how you watch last year's tape and make that conclusion. But there we go.

[97bills]

On 10/8/2020 at 6:34 AM, GunnerBill said:

McDermott coaches to his talent. He is one of the best Head Coaches in the NFL outside the obvious big name Superbowl winners - Belichick, Reid, Payton, Harbaugh, Carroll. He will want to get some of the issues ironed out on defense and I'm sure he will, but he has always won games the way his talent allows him to.

He won me over the first year he was here going 9-7 with the talent we had. He gets the best out of his players 

[JDHillFan]

20 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

This is where I’m at.... good coach who has his flaws on game day.... The conservative offense is no longer an issues at least to start the season so I love that, but the challenges are strange and he’s incredibly bad with them. The one on Sunday was a head scratcher. Just save your TO and score a TD on the next play. 
 

Biggest issue is the lack of counter adjustments.... We saw it against Houston and we saw it agains the Rams in that ridiculous 2nd half where the Bills looked completely clueless defensively and had no answer.

And then they adjusted second half against LV. Are there coaches out there that don’t get bulldozed on occasion? 

[Billsfan1972]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I just don't know how you watch last year's tape and make that conclusion. But there we go.

As opposed to many of you I do not watch tape (though will replay when necessary (as I do tape the games).  I do not do deep dives into the draft or coaches, but will read up on them.

 

I watch the game with two eyes & see the box score.  This team under McD did not (or would not) throw for 300 yards in 3 years.....  Every team did that every year (except the Bills who somehow managed to do it for 3 years, and next closes may have been a 19 game streak).

 

The Bills Offense ranked 29, 30 & 24 the past 3 seasons.

 

Keep repeating the mantra salary cap hell, low payroll, the process, making due with what you have & whatever else you want, but every outsider looking in would have the exact same opinion as me, however you guys are way smarter then everyone else.

 

Bottom line is I have admitted McD is growing on me, I'm thrilled about the offense and excited this year.  My point is I think they did hold Allen back more then necessary the first two years.

 

Again look at Justin Herbert and how quickly he has adapted right out of the gate.

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

My point is I think they did hold Allen back more then necessary the first two years.

 

Again look at Justin Herbert and how quickly he has adapted right out of the gate.

 

But you haven't provided any evidence to support that point you have just repeated it over and over. Josh was incredibly raw coming out. He just was not capable 2 years ago of playing anything like he is today. I agree they didn't but great talent around him but that is on Beane not McDermott. 

 

You talk like the Bills put Allen in a straight jacket and didn't let him throw. @Nihilarian argues they asked him to do too much and should have been pounding the rock more. Personally I think they got the balance pretty much spot on.

 

And actually I do ask outsiders looking in as to your other point. Many of them think the Bills coaching plan in developing Allen has been outstanding. And that includes a guy who I speak to who used to coach in the league. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

They got overly conservative a lot last season and was infuriating to see.... specifically the Steelers game. You could understand why...they wanted to put the game in the hands of their defense against Duck Hodges. Still it was an annoying and somewhat risky strategy because all it took was one big play from the Steelers or missed assignment/tackle from the Bills defense.

 

I disagree it was "a lot". Washington and Pittsburgh are the only two games that come to mind and they were outnumbered by games where if anything they were too aggressive.

 

I just don't buy the Allen has been held back. He hasn't. And if he had he wouldn't be producing the performances he is through 4 weeks. He is capable of this now because the Bills have never babied him and shrunk the playbook or focused entirely on half field reads or any of that stuff. They asked the kid to make reads and make throws pretty much from day 1. It was the right approach.