Texans and Cowboys players test positive

[dollars 2 donuts]

11 minutes ago, Logic said:

It gets tricky fast, though, even if you're only quarantining the sick.

Let's say it's a crucial divisional matchup to decide a playoff spot in the AFC. For the sake of argument, let's say its Bills vs Patriots.

The Patriots enter the game with no COVID infections and a pretty complete roster. The Bills, on the other hand, see Josh Allen, Stefon Diggs, and Tremaine Edmunds sidelined due to COVID. Is this the type of season we even want to watch? Sure, you can argue that there are injuries every year, but I think there's a good chance COVID infections will be much more prevalent.

Players also come into such close contact, both in locker rooms and on the field, that it seems unrealistic to think that COVID won't affect wide swaths of players as the season wears along. Many analysts expect there to be so many positive COVID cases throughout the season that each team would have to have a whole "taxi squad" of replacement players at the ready. How far into the bench of replacement players do we want to go? At what point is it no longer a fair representation of each team and, thus, a risk not worth putting people through?

 

 

It's a great point Logic, but I still go back to my point in way...does everything get cancelled because of what you referenced above, or do you just deal with it because that's what you do?

 

If we can assume (just play along with me here) that as recent studies have shown that 1) you are less likely to get COVID from hard surfaces and, more importantly, 2) you are unlikely to get it from those that are asymptomatic.  With those this still becomes people being responsible for taking proper care and proper measures.  Meaning, if a player gets sick I think there is a greater likelihood it happens in their everyday life as opposed to players who will almost daily be under scrutiny regarding their health.  So if it happens in their everyday life its not much different than anything else that might happen.

 

It's morning.. Time for practice.  Do you have a fever?  Yes.  Good-bye.  that stinks, but that's it.  You can come back when you've been cleared.  I just don't see one Buffalo Bill having it, which then turns into 60% of the team having it.  We know better now and we are more cautious now.  

 

I don't see the benefit, on any angle, to just wrap things up for the season because of what could be and what we might not like, as opposed to taking precautions and letting the teams that are able to hit the field, hit the field.

 

...if we want to put an asterisks by it at the end of the season, we can...please, we have done that before.  I just don't think that at this stage a whole season or people's way of life should be sacrificed because of the scales being tipped.

[RiotAct]

Cancelling the whole 2020 season would just be the liquefied turd icing on the sh** cake that is 2020.  

 

2020 - the year of subsistence-level “living”!!!

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, RiotAct said:

Cancelling the whole 2020 season would just be the liquefied turd icing on the sh** cake that is 2020.  

 

2020 - the year of subsistence-level “living”!!!

Make sure you complain about it on the internet, loudly.

[RiotAct]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Make sure you complain about it on the internet, loudly.

already taken care of!

[aristocrat]

the next month is going to be key.  i would say the season starts a month late if i had to guess right now. 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What do you suggest we do? 

 

Sit inside, lock the doors and wait for a vaccine? 

Well yes, unless you have a great cause you feel like protesting for.

 

Everyone needs to stay inside for contact tracing except for me and a few thousand of my buddies. We are all going to protest to raise support for the famine in Yemen.

 

The virus will feel the nobility of my cause and tremble!

Edited June 16, 2020 by FireChans

[nucci]

1 hour ago, TigerJ said:

I'm sure NFL teams will test players as they report to camp, and monitor symptoms closely day by day.  That may not completely eliminate the risk, but should keep the risk at acceptable levels.  Players who have it now should be over it and immune by the time camps start.

why does everyone seem to think you are immune if you get it once? This has not been proven and there are cases of people getting it more than once

[GG]

15 minutes ago, nucci said:

why does everyone seem to think you are immune if you get it once? This has not been proven and there are cases of people getting it more than once

 

Where?

[Logic]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

What do you suggest we do? 

 

Sit inside, lock the doors and wait for a vaccine? 

I'm not sure how you got THAT from what I wrote. 

 

59 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Well yes, unless you have a great cause you feel like protesting for.

 

Everyone needs to stay inside for contact tracing except for me and a few thousand of my buddies. We are all going to protest to raise support for the famine in Yemen.

 

The virus will feel the nobility of my cause and tremble!

My pointing out that COVID infection does not necessarily confer future immunity DEFINITELY called for this type of response. ?

Your ongoing ability to sidetrack a discussion with immature and unrelated babble is unmatched. Bravo.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Logic

[plenzmd1]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

why does everyone seem to think you are immune if you get it once? This has not been proven and there are cases of people getting it more than once

I know there was a headline a while back, but that was proven to be a false positive if i remember correctly. 

 

 

[spartacus]

4 hours ago, nucci said:

why does everyone seem to think you are immune if you get it once? This has not been proven and there are cases of people getting it more than once

what would be the point of a vaccine then?

The vaccine shot essentially gives you the virus so your body will develop immunity

 

[Edit: simply wrong gouge on how vaccines work please see my post below -Hap]

 

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan
misinformation

[nucci]

1 minute ago, spartacus said:

what would be the point of a vaccine then?

The vaccine shot essentially gives you the virus so your body will develop immunity

 

 

minimize the severity? I'm not in the medical field...just trying to read and learn

[Trogdor]

On 6/15/2020 at 1:51 PM, BringBackFergy said:

Agreed. BUT, every facet of our economy is currently one big HIPAA violation. Schools, real estate showings, going back to work, etc. all require workers to answer three or four questions (Have you come in contact with any COVID patient in the last 14 days? Have you felt sick with fever or cough in last 14 days? etc). Zeke might want to see how all of us have our medical histories on the table right now.

Telling people that an employee tested positive and naming that employee aren't the same thing. People shouldn't disclose medical information about other people. 

[GG]

20 minutes ago, nucci said:

minimize the severity? I'm not in the medical field...just trying to read and learn

 

That's the issue - You read the first stories that talked about returning infections, but not the retractions that followed which said there were no recurring infections, and the data was wrong.

[vincec]

On 6/15/2020 at 12:30 PM, Chandler#81 said:

Pardon my French, but to Hell with your opinion. 

 

Simply put, Players ARE going to get the virus. Most likely some of us too. They’re young & in great physical condition while being afforded the very best medical capabilities. The vast majority of people who’ve contracted the disease are not only fine within a month, they’re then immune.

 

”PLAY BALL!”!

People are going to have to learn to live with the virus in circulation. Right now, from what I’ve read, as many as 5% or so of Americans have become infected. Until that hits 60% to 70% or there is a vaccine, the virus is going to make its rounds and we can’t cancel life in the meantime. The NFL, like everyone else, needs to develop protocols to deal with infected players.

Edited June 16, 2020 by vincec

[Logic]

49 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I’m getting that from a majority of your posts on the virus.... what do you suggest we do? 
 

The curve has been flattened, hospitals are no longer overwhelmed as certain precautions have been taken.... as has been stated already, we can’t just sit inside our houses with fear watching the news until there is a vaccine....perhaps more people focusing on their diet and strengthening their immune systems while not living in fear will result in a much different response. 

 

I don’t “suggest” anyone do anything, other than not spreading misinformation. I made no comment about what the NFL, or the population at large, should or should not do. Listening to experts, following common sense, and wearing masks would be nice, but I’m not silly enough to think that most people will actually do those things.

 

The statement “getting infected with COVID once means you’re immune from getting it again” has not been proven. It is not factual. That is all that I “suggested” with my comment. That’s it. Anything else you inferred was your own projection.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

If we can assume (just play along with me here) that as recent studies have shown that 1) you are less likely to get COVID from hard surfaces and, more importantly, 2) you are unlikely to get it from those that are asymptomatic.  

 

The problem is, recent studies have shown no such thing.  Even WHO had to walk that back when they had a crowd of epidemiologists saying "excuse me, kindly direct me to the data that demonstrate this point" and they had no such thing.  Operationally, "asymptomatic" just means "does not have symptoms at this time".  "Asymptomatic" people who were symptomatic 2 days or 6 days later have been shown to be shedding virus all over the environment and to have viral titer as high or higher than other symptomatic people.  There is no study demonstrating these people are not contagious.

 

Therefore the rest of what you say, based upon these assumptions, falls apart.

 

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

What do you suggest we do? 

 

Sit inside, lock the doors and wait for a vaccine? 

 

I think he suggests that we not behave as though having antibodies to the virus (or having been tested positive for infection and recovered) confers immunity and for how long, until we learn more about those points.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, spartacus said:

what would be the point of a vaccine then?

The vaccine shot essentially gives you the virus so your body will develop immunity

 

No.  The vaccine does not "essentially give you the virus" to get the body to develop immunity.

There are several long posts in OTW with information about the different vaccines being tried and how they work, with links and references. 

Please go there and inform yourself before posting

 

Sorry, but this is flat out incorrect. 

 

2 hours ago, nucci said:

minimize the severity? I'm not in the medical field...just trying to read and learn

 

Fair point.  That is one effect of vaccines such as flu that are not 100% effective at preventing disease - they often (not always) minimize disease severity.

[GG]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The problem is, recent studies have shown no such thing.  Even WHO had to walk that back when they had a crowd of epidemiologists saying "excuse me, kindly direct me to the data that demonstrate this point" and they had no such thing.  Operationally, "asymptomatic" just means "does not have symptoms at this time".  "Asymptomatic" people who were symptomatic 2 days or 6 days later have been shown to be shedding virus all over the environment and to have viral titer as high or higher than other symptomatic people.  There is no study demonstrating these people are not contagious.

 

Therefore the rest of what you say, based upon these assumptions, falls apart.

 

 

I think he suggests that we not behave as though having antibodies to the virus (or having been tested positive for infection and recovered) confers immunity and for how long, until we learn more about those points.

 

 

It would be helpful if people used the more appropriate description of presymptomatic vs asymptomatic.   To me there's a huge difference.  

 

In any event, I'm not aware of any Typhoid Mary cases that have been uncovered.   

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, GG said:

Where?

 

Decent article

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/15/can-you-get-infected-by-coronavirus-twice-how-does-covid-19-immunity-work/#57415a925c0f

 

This topic has been raised several times in the covid-19 threads in OTW, please go there to discuss

 

9 minutes ago, GG said:

It would be helpful if people used the more appropriate description of presymptomatic vs asymptomatic.   To me there's a huge difference.  

In any event, I'm not aware of any Typhoid Mary cases that have been uncovered.  

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "Typhoid Mary" cases - She was colonized with typhoid bacteria for years and never developed disease, and covid-19 has only been around for a few months.  But if you mean people who tested positive with the diagonostic RT-PCR test, who have spread the disease to others but never developed symptoms themselves, yes, there have been case studies of this from the start in China and more accumulating steadily.  BillsFan4 put up a good summary post in the OTW covid-19 discussion thread if you wish to read and discuss further.

The problem with the difference between asymptomatic and presymptomatic is that it's a distinction that can only be made in hindsight, which means it's not very useful from a public health standpoint.  If you test positive today but have no symptoms, whether you are asymptomatic (in the sense of never developing symptoms) or presymptomatic is something we won't know for 14 days or so.

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The problem is, recent studies have shown no such thing.  Even WHO had to walk that back when they had a crowd of epidemiologists saying "excuse me, kindly direct me to the data that demonstrate this point" and they had no such thing.  Operationally, "asymptomatic" just means "does not have symptoms at this time".  "Asymptomatic" people who were symptomatic 2 days or 6 days later have been shown to be shedding virus all over the environment and to have viral titer as high or higher than other symptomatic people.  There is no study demonstrating these people are not contagious.

 

Therefore the rest of what you say, based upon these assumptions, falls apart.

 

Hap, I am leaving my comments in below just for full disclosure.  However, the comments made here, in bold afterwards, are based upon other things you’ve written, and posts and other threads by our members on this board.  Unfortunately, the “food for thought” you and others have provided make me less confident in my position on playing.  
 

we need to know more and I am not out by any stretch.  But 90% confidence is now down to...50.

 

just wanted to let you know.

 

thank you, Hap.  I get your point as it was made.

 

however, it doesn’t have to rely upon my assumptions with respect to the rest of what I said, which I don’t think falls apart.

 

Even in what you quoted me on I heavily weighted my original statement, and at the start.  So...just plain removing those assumptions in their entirety, we still:  monitor and take precautions.  Likely even greater precautions as given the concerns over inhalation/exhalation, possible additions face mask coverings, but not as to inhibit respiration.  This is just a suggestion.

 

as far as the rest of what I said, I stand by it, minus even the earlier comments.

 

 

“With those this still becomes people being responsible for taking proper care and proper measures.  Meaning, if a player gets sick I think there is a greater likelihood it happens in their everyday life as opposed to players who will almost daily be under scrutiny regarding their health.  So if it happens in their everyday life its not much different than anything else that might happen.

 

It's morning.. Time for practice.  Do you have a fever?  Yes.  Good-bye.  that stinks, but that's it.  You can come back when you've been cleared.  I just don't see one Buffalo Bill having it, which then turns into 60% of the team having it.  We know better now and we are more cautious now.  

 

I don't see the benefit, on any angle, to just wrap things up for the season because of what could be and what we might not like, as opposed to taking precautions and letting the teams that are able to hit the field, hit the field.

 

...if we want to put an asterisks by it at the end of the season, we can...please, we have done that before.  I just don't think that at this stage a whole season or people's way of life should be sacrificed because of the scales being tipped.“

Edited June 17, 2020 by dollars 2 donuts

[GG]

Interesting how factual posts that challenge the official narrative go poof.  

 

I'm out of this thread    

[TigerJ]

6 hours ago, nucci said:

why does everyone seem to think you are immune if you get it once? This has not been proven and there are cases of people getting it more than once

It is generally accepted now that having had COVID-19 does give you immunity.  The evidence to the contrary seems to fall into categories.  1 - People have had false positive tests after recovering from COVID-19.  The medical community generally agrees the test is reacting to inactive pieces of virus RNA floating around the body.  2 - People have had relapses without ever truly recovering.  The medical community is suggesting that around 40% of CIVID-19 victims have the disease far longer than than the 2 weeks first thought to be the duration.  The symptoms have linger for 90 days and counting for some.  Whether they are still contagious or not is in question.

[TigerJ]

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

It would be helpful if people used the more appropriate description of presymptomatic vs asymptomatic.   To me there's a huge difference.  

 

In any event, I'm not aware of any Typhoid Mary cases that have been uncovered.   

 

 

It's tough to discern between presymptomatic and asymptomatic in the present.  If someone has antibodies to COVID-19 and never had symptoms, you can say pretty conclusively he had an asymptomatic case.  Otherwise if someone tests positive without symptoms, about the best you can say is they don't have symptoms yet.  You have to assume they are shedding virus and are contagious in any case.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, GG said:

Interesting how factual posts that challenge the official narrative go poof.  

 

I'm out of this thread    

Hey man, when the government can barely put out an official narrative, who are we to dispute what they cobble together?

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Like?

I think you missed the go poof part

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I recall about a week ago seeing a news outlet with new social distancing guidelines.... “social gatherings of up to 12 people, protests of up to 100.” ***** joke. I don’t understand how anyone can really believe what the media tells them. 

 

The media is telling us what the governments are telling them.  Why blame the media??  

[BringBackFergy]

4 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Telling people that an employee tested positive and naming that employee aren't the same thing. People shouldn't disclose medical information about other people. 

In a perfect world, yes - absolutely right. But when you are trying to sell a house, appear on a motion, meet with a commercial lender or spot someone doing bench press,  and you’re told “uh, no you can’t come in today because we have a positive Covid case” that kinda narrows it down doesn’t it? The public has a right to know what they are coming in contact with (whether it’s a sports figure or an investment banker). Zeke needs to understand this. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Privacy is trumped by fear of pandemic (death) and liability (duty to disclose).  When that subsides, our health privacy will be restored. 

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

The media is telling us what the governments are telling them.  Why blame the media??  

The media is supposed to keep the government in check when they act like idiots. At least, that’s what I thought they were supposed to do.

[Nelius]

This thread is crazy. It's a "novel" coronavirus for a reason, as you can tell by the breadth of responses here. There's still a tremendous amount of questions which is why there will be no normal any time soon. At best I'm hoping for some kind of truncated season in a bubble, and I'm convinced that there's no way any of us will be attending a major sporting event live for at least the rest of 2020.

 

On 6/15/2020 at 10:30 AM, Chandler#81 said:

The vast majority of people who’ve contracted the disease are not only fine within a month, they’re then immune.

 

Genuinely curious if there's any truth to the immunity part? I've heard otherwise but have been taking a bit of a media break lately so may have missed an update. Awesome if true, but if not, then this is exactly the kind of serious confusion that I'm talking about.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Nelius

[Mij yllek]

I seem to remember Bruce Smith coming down with the flu right before a crucial playoff game in Pittsburgh. I don't remember the entire league being beside themselves with panic.

[Logic]

11 hours ago, Nelius said:

This thread is crazy. It's a "novel" coronavirus for a reason, as you can tell by the breadth of responses here. There's still a tremendous amount of questions which is why there will be no normal any time soon. At best I'm hoping for some kind of truncated season in a bubble, and I'm convinced that there's no way any of us will be attending a major sporting event live for at least the rest of 2020.

 

 

Genuinely curious if there's any truth to the immunity part? I've heard otherwise but have been taking a bit of a media break lately so may have missed an update. Awesome if true, but if not, then this is exactly the kind of serious confusion that I'm talking about.

According to the CDC website, it is not yet known whether infection with COVID confers any kind of future immunity. 

[Edit: I tried to address this and answer some questions here if anyone interested.  Tnks -Hap]

[Nelius]

7 minutes ago, Mij yllek said:

I seem to remember Bruce Smith coming down with the flu right before a crucial playoff game in Pittsburgh. I don't remember the entire league being beside themselves with panic.

 

Yeah and he was so sick that he couldn't play and the Bills lost? So quite serious. Now let's upgrade that and make it far more infectious.

[Gugny]

29 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The media is supposed to keep the government in check when they act like idiots. At least, that’s what I thought they were supposed to do.

They do. Then don says “fake news,” and his cult runs with it. 

[FireChans]

40 minutes ago, Gugny said:

They do. Then don says “fake news,” and his cult runs with it. 

Except for the nonsensical guidelines, sure.

[Reneth Gilne]

On 6/15/2020 at 9:21 AM, Cal said:

Per NFL.com

 

Need to call off the 2020 season imo. You can't socially distance in a team sport like football. Its inevitable that players will continue to test positive.

In other news a car got in a car accident...no one was hurt....need to cancel driving nationwide.

 

Also the regular flu caused someone to sneeze, need to cancel all outdoor activities including breathing.

 

Also someone posted something assinine....need to close the forum for the year. 

 

Just totally rediculous.   Thanks

[cd1]

On 6/15/2020 at 12:30 PM, Chandler#81 said:

Pardon my French, but to Hell with your opinion. 

 

Simply put, Players ARE going to get the virus. Most likely some of us too. They’re young & in great physical condition while being afforded the very best medical capabilities. The vast majority of people who’ve contracted the disease are not only fine within a month, they’re then immune.

 

”PLAY BALL!”!

 

The players may be young and healthy, but what about coaches and support staff? 

 

Who wants to take bets on Andy Reid's chances? How about Romeo Crennel?

 

It is not just about survival either. Survivors are reporting long lasting issues. What if some young and healthy players recover but never have the endurance required to play pro football anymore.

 

This is not chicken pox. It just isn't that simple.

[Chandler#81]

18 minutes ago, cd1 said:

 

The players may be young and healthy, but what about coaches and support staff? 

 

Who wants to take bets on Andy Reid's chances? How about Romeo Crennel?

 

It is not just about survival either. Survivors are reporting long lasting issues. What if some young and healthy players recover but never have the endurance required to play pro football anymore.

 

This is not chicken pox. It just isn't that simple.

You share the doomsday theory many others do. There certainly could be truth in your assessment (it’s been 90 some odd years since the last one). Because the NFL is currently going full steam ahead for a full 2000 campaign, that’s the only truth we know today.

Until/unless something changes, onward we go with the best laid plans & precautions.

[cd1]

8 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

You share the doomsday theory many others do. There certainly could be truth in your assessment (it’s been 90 some odd years since the last one). Because the NFL is currently going full steam ahead for a full 2000 campaign, that’s the only truth we know today.

Until/unless something changes, onward we go with the best laid plans & precautions.

 

If reality equals doomsday it is a very sad world we live in today.

[BillsFan17]

29 minutes ago, cd1 said:

 

The players may be young and healthy, but what about coaches and support staff? 

 

Who wants to take bets on Andy Reid's chances? How about Romeo Crennel?

 

It is not just about survival either. Survivors are reporting long lasting issues. What if some young and healthy players recover but never have the endurance required to play pro football anymore.

 

This is not chicken pox. It just isn't that simple.

It is that simple, the mortality rate is low and we are seeing mass gatherings for the past week or so plus.

[plenzmd1]

3 hours ago, cd1 said:

 

The players may be young and healthy, but what about coaches and support staff? 

 

Who wants to take bets on Andy Reid's chances? How about Romeo Crennel?

 

It is not just about survival either. Survivors are reporting long lasting issues. What if some young and healthy players recover but never have the endurance required to play pro football anymore.

 

This is not chicken pox. It just isn't that simple.

So, should the season be cancelled because a few coaches are overweight and older? 

 

By that logic, 2500 players, i am guessing 5X in coaching in direct administrative roles etc so , plus all the TV personnel, plus all the folks in advertising, plus all the countless 1000s other people affected by a shutdown ...they should all lose their livelihood instead of the high risk people staying home.

 

The good of the 100's is more important than the good of millions?