Buffalo Sabres & NHL 2020-2021

[Bob in Mich]

9 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

The funny thing is *most* major league coaches, in any sport, tend to be this way.

They have learned 1 way to do it coming up through their career, and only 1 way.

 

They then shove that system onto the players even when it doesn't work.

 

A master chef can make a great meal no matter what's looking good at the market that day.

 

Not the same with professional sports coaching.

 

Obviously, Ralph was a huge mistake.  That point is beyond argument at this point.

 

So the only question to ask, right now, is why is Ralph still around?

 

Money?  Terry actually thinks he'll turn it around?  Terry is waiting for their #1 replacement option to become available?

If it's the latter, they should still fire Ralph immediately.

 

Retaining him at this point is bad for everyone involved.  It makes Pegula look like an idiot or a jerk.  It casts a really dark shadow on the Sabres brand, as viewed from around the league.

 

And it puts poor old Ralph is a really bad spot too.  He ran out of things to say a long time ago.  

 

He should be removed immediately, with an interim put in place until their ideal replacement candidate can be made available.

 

So again, why in the world is Ralph still around?

 

Good question, isn't it?

  

 

I think it was Lance Lysowski(sp) that said this season, due to no fans, management is way less responsive to the fan complaints.  That makes the most sense to me.  

[BillsFan4]

I heard that the upper body injury Eichel sustained at the beginning of training camp was 2-3 cracked ribs but I can’t find a source for it.

 

This is the closest I can find:

https://apnews.com/article/new-york-nhl-ralph-krueger-jack-eichel-coronavirus-pandemic-008ae1601b5d9394fcc16024814a97a0

 

AP confirms it was a rib injury but doesn’t go into detail.
 

It would make sense why he was struggling If he was playing through a rib injury like that. Rib injuries are super painful. I fractured 3 ribs in a car accident a couple years ago and damn was it painful. It hurt to even breathe. Laughing or coughing was ridiculously painful. I couldn’t imagine having that injury and full grown pro athletes slamming into me. 

[SinceThe70s]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

I heard that the upper body injury Eichel sustained at the beginning of training camp was 2-3 cracked ribs but I can’t find a source for it.

 

This is the closest I can find:

https://apnews.com/article/new-york-nhl-ralph-krueger-jack-eichel-coronavirus-pandemic-008ae1601b5d9394fcc16024814a97a0

 

AP confirms it was a rib injury but doesn’t go into detail.
 

It would make sense why he was struggling If he was playing through a rib injury like that. Rib injuries are super painful. I fractured 3 ribs in a car accident a couple years ago and damn was it painful. It hurt to even breathe. Laughing or coughing was ridiculously painful. I couldn’t imagine having that injury and full grown pro athletes slamming into me. 

 

I had a minor cracked rib once, slept on it and the next morning ended up writhing on the floor in pain with every breath I tried to take. 

 

No clue what's going on with Eichel, but if he's a guy that's playing through pain and not b!tchin about it he's a guy I'd want to hold on to.

[Rockpile233]

I think they should have open fan tryouts at this point.

 

Would be more fun to watch! 

[thenorthremembers]

If Ralph isnt fired after tonight...

Hutton shouldnt be in the NH, Stahl is horrendous, Dahlin and Colin Miller look like they both belong on the Amerks.

 

What a total pukefest.

[BADOLBILZ]

47 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

If Ralph isnt fired after tonight...

Hutton shouldnt be in the NH, Stahl is horrendous, Dahlin and Colin Miller look like they both belong on the Amerks.

 

What a total pukefest.

 

 

On the plus side.......almost to the half way point of season.

[Nextmanup]

I watched the entire game tonight against the Caps.

 

This is a low point in a season of low points.  The team quit!  

 

If Ralph isn't fired TOMORROW, this franchise will suffer irrevocable damage.

 

This is on TERRY PEGULA and no one else.

 

RALPH MUST BE FIRED TOMORROW.

 

 

[Jauronimo]

26 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I watched the entire game tonight against the Caps.

 

This is a low point in a season of low points.  The team quit!  

 

If Ralph isn't fired TOMORROW, this franchise will suffer irrevocable damage.

 

This is on TERRY PEGULA and no one else.

 

RALPH MUST BE FIRED TOMORROW.

 

 

Ralph isn't going anywhere.  No amount of ranting and raving is going to change that.

[oldmanfan]

6 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I watched the entire game tonight against the Caps.

 

This is a low point in a season of low points.  The team quit!  

 

If Ralph isn't fired TOMORROW, this franchise will suffer irrevocable damage.

 

This is on TERRY PEGULA and no one else.

 

RALPH MUST BE FIRED TOMORROW.

 

 

Sure. Fire him.  Then the players can quit on the next guy.  Like they did on Bylsma and Housley, and now Ralph.  

 

I'm sorry, but when you have the kind of (non) effort you saw yesterday that should be all you need to see to determine it's about the players.  No heart, no guts, no pride, no nothing.  Risto seemed to say it's just the way it is and he can't change it?  How about some effort, some veteran leadership?

 

Adams made his NHL living by his work ethic.  He must be steaming, knowing he wants to get rid of practically every guy on the roster, and that it's impossible to do so right now.  

 

Ralph will be gone soon.  I hope most of this roster goes with him.  

[ChevyVanMiller]

After last night’s performance, surely they will fire Ralph...

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/UVwoTQ0OvhqohViQqC/giphy.gif

 

 

 

 

[Greg S]

On 3/12/2021 at 2:55 PM, BillsFan4 said:

 

Vogl tweeted that it was actually even worse. Only 856 tickets sold so far.

 

I’m surprised they were even able to sell 850! 😂 

 

When Bills tickets go on sale I bet they sell 60,000 seasons easy. If they don't cap it then it will probably be more. The Bills will be sold out for the season before the season even starts.  Why should fans spend their hard earned money to watch a mess. The Sabres don't deserve fans to spend money on them. The Bills do.

[Bob in Mich]

The realization that you care more about the team winning than the team,  is sobering.  Makes one feel a bit foolish

[Rockpile233]

4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Sure. Fire him.  Then the players can quit on the next guy.  Like they did on Bylsma and Housley, and now Ralph.  

 

I'm sorry, but when you have the kind of (non) effort you saw yesterday that should be all you need to see to determine it's about the players.  No heart, no guts, no pride, no nothing.  Risto seemed to say it's just the way it is and he can't change it?  How about some effort, some veteran leadership?

 

Adams made his NHL living by his work ethic.  He must be steaming, knowing he wants to get rid of practically every guy on the roster, and that it's impossible to do so right now.  

 

Ralph will be gone soon.  I hope most of this roster goes with him.  

I completely agree. I blame the owners most followed by the players and finally whatever coach they are cycling through at the moment. This is not an endorsement for Kreuger who is clearly in over his head BTY.

 

I’m just sick of hearing guys like Reinhart say it’s hard to muster up the energy. (And yes I know he’s been one of the decent pieces) Sound bites like that are a big part of the issue. Whether the specific cause is quitting on this coach or being burned out by years of losing or having an issue with competitiveness...I don’t think anyone really cares at this point. Take this awful season out of the equation and we’ve still seen these core guys have trouble mustering the energy period to period at the sign of any adversity.

 

You learn early in business school that when the culture is poisoned you need to change the people. As many as possible as quickly as possible. (Hmmm sounds like something another coach/GM pair did when they came to town).

 

 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

12 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Hutton shouldn't be in the NHL

 

Who shouldn't be playing in the NHL right now (too young, too old, not good enough):

 

Rasmus Asplund 
William Borgen 
Brandon Davidson 
Cody Eakin 
Taylor Hall 
Carter Hutton 
Matt Irwin 
Jonas Johansson 
Colin Miller 
Casey Mittelstadt 
Brandon Montour 
Kyle Okposo
Tobias Rieder 
Riley Sheahan 
Jeff Skinner 
C.J. Smith 
Eric Staal 
Tage Thompson     
Dustin Tokarski 

 

Who should be playing in the NHL right now:

 

Jacob Bryson 
Dylan Cozens 
Rasmus Dahlin 
Jack Eichel
Zemgus Girgensons
Curtis Lazar 
Jake McCabe
Victor Olofsson 
Sam Reinhart 
Rasmus Ristolainen     
Linus Ullmark     

 

[BillsFan4]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

On the plus side.......almost to the half way point of season.

Oh good lord the season isn’t even half over yet?? 🤢🤮

[K-9]

22 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

 

Who shouldn't be playing in the NHL right now (too young, too old, not good enough):

 

Rasmus Asplund 
William Borgen 
Brandon Davidson 
Cody Eakin 
Taylor Hall 
Carter Hutton 
Matt Irwin 
Jonas Johansson 
Colin Miller 
Casey Mittelstadt 
Brandon Montour 
Kyle Okposo
Tobias Rieder 
Riley Sheahan 
Jeff Skinner 
C.J. Smith 
Eric Staal 
Tage Thompson     
Dustin Tokarski 

 

Who should be playing in the NHL right now:

 

Jacob Bryson 
Dylan Cozens 
Rasmus Dahlin 
Jack Eichel
Zemgus Girgensons
Curtis Lazar 
Jake McCabe
Victor Olofsson 
Sam Reinhart 
Rasmus Ristolainen     
Linus Ullmark     

 

Borgen is a good player and worth keeping. Can’t argue with the rest of that list, though. 

[May Day 10]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Sure. Fire him.  Then the players can quit on the next guy.  Like they did on Bylsma and Housley, and now Ralph.  

 

I'm sorry, but when you have the kind of (non) effort you saw yesterday that should be all you need to see to determine it's about the players.  No heart, no guts, no pride, no nothing.  Risto seemed to say it's just the way it is and he can't change it?  How about some effort, some veteran leadership?

 

Adams made his NHL living by his work ethic.  He must be steaming, knowing he wants to get rid of practically every guy on the roster, and that it's impossible to do so right now.  

 

Ralph will be gone soon.  I hope most of this roster goes with him.  

 

The players keep quitting.  There is no leadership, including Eichel.  

 

There is no management. Adams is a fake GM with zero-point-zero experience.  Krueger is a HC with limited NHL experience, and he has done a lot of losing in that experience.

 

They have gutted their entire hockey department.   Promoted a few intern-level employees to head of Scouting and head of analytics and pushed a ton more responsibility onto those positions.

 

Ownership thinks if the media was nicer to them, then the fans would love them and the team would perform better.  

 

 

 

This team was trying to contend this year.  They signed Hall to a 1 year deal, brought in Staal.  Spend 99% of the cap... and they have a team that has won 4 regulation/OT games out of 27!.  This isnt some sort of team deep in a tear-down.  This level of failure is beyond comprehension.

 

 

This organization is so far from contending.  Like another galaxy.  Even if the Clampetts came to terms with how severely damaged their franchise is, it is still an enormously heavy-lift, everything needs to be cleansed out, and we are looking at a 3-4 year rebuild to do it the right way.   What is going to happen is A: they will stay with Kruger because they will excuse the season away to injuries, covid, hard division, etc and "continuity".... or B: can Krueger after the season, keep everything else the same, and hire a crappy NCAA/USDP coach like the Providence HC with no NHL experience and no ability to shoulder this massive lift here with this group of millionaire personalities.  In that case, we are going to have to wait 2 more years of disaster until the Pegulas figure out it isnt working, then we again need to hope they do the right thing, get experience at the top of the org, and begin a 3-4 year rebuild.  There is no end in sight.

 

 

 

But you know 'the lines of communication have never been better' or something like that.

[oldmanfan]

55 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

The players keep quitting.  There is no leadership, including Eichel.  

 

There is no management. Adams is a fake GM with zero-point-zero experience.  Krueger is a HC with limited NHL experience, and he has done a lot of losing in that experience.

 

They have gutted their entire hockey department.   Promoted a few intern-level employees to head of Scouting and head of analytics and pushed a ton more responsibility onto those positions.

 

Ownership thinks if the media was nicer to them, then the fans would love them and the team would perform better.  

 

 

 

This team was trying to contend this year.  They signed Hall to a 1 year deal, brought in Staal.  Spend 99% of the cap... and they have a team that has won 4 regulation/OT games out of 27!.  This isnt some sort of team deep in a tear-down.  This level of failure is beyond comprehension.

 

 

This organization is so far from contending.  Like another galaxy.  Even if the Clampetts came to terms with how severely damaged their franchise is, it is still an enormously heavy-lift, everything needs to be cleansed out, and we are looking at a 3-4 year rebuild to do it the right way.   What is going to happen is A: they will stay with Kruger because they will excuse the season away to injuries, covid, hard division, etc and "continuity".... or B: can Krueger after the season, keep everything else the same, and hire a crappy NCAA/USDP coach like the Providence HC with no NHL experience and no ability to shoulder this massive lift here with this group of millionaire personalities.  In that case, we are going to have to wait 2 more years of disaster until the Pegulas figure out it isnt working, then we again need to hope they do the right thing, get experience at the top of the org, and begin a 3-4 year rebuild.  There is no end in sight.

 

 

 

But you know 'the lines of communication have never been better' or something like that.

I will say this for the Pegulas:  I don't think they want the Sabres to be this bad.  No one does.  As far as the coach, I think one of the hardest things in sports is to identify the guy who will take that step up to be a really good HC.  Some say they were lucky on McDermott, but the NFL committee had him on their radar screen, and McD had a definitive plan and process in place, and with Beane had the support of the owners to clean house and build a roster with guys they felt fit the mold.

 

Has Kruger had that opportunity?  Housley?  Bylsma?  I don't know.  I think Murray was a disaster as GM and Botterill wasn't far behind, but each were considered bright young minds ready for their shot.  Same with Housley as HC.  Some say the Sabres need a veteran coach; you don't want for example the Providence HC.  Well, they went and got a former Cup winner in Bylsma and look where it got them.  How many people wanted Babcok and now he's a college coach.  The NHL likes to recycle HCs who got fired one place for whatever reason; sometimes it works and sometimes (probably more times) it doesn't.

 

Unlike the NFL, the NHL (and especially the NBA as a comparison) the lunatics run the asylum; the NHL and NBA are leagues where it's the players that play the music and the coach that has to dance.  I think the Pegulas are looking for a similar route for success as they did with the Bills, a HC and GM with a specific plan and process to achieve success, and then giving them the freedom to get the players they feel will match their plan.  I think they saw a HC like that in Kruger.  Now, it may very well be that Kruger's plan is crap, but I wonder if you got a couple drinks in him what he'd say, and whether he feels he has players that can actually win.  

 

Regardless, I am sure Kruger will be gone.  Adams I think deserves a shot to bring in a HC that he feels matches how he wants to build a team, and given his experience in the league he should have a pretty good idea what he thinks will work.  And before he looks for a HC,  if I'm Terry and Kim I have Adams spend some time with McD and Beane to discuss general philosophies and methods to establish the process and culture he wants and needs.  Then Terry and Kim need to let him do it, and if that means moving a ton of players out fine by me.  I don't think they need a President of Hockey; they need a competent GM and HC that are in sync for once, and they need to make it clear to the players who drives the bus.

And for God's sakes find a goaile!

Edited March 16, 2021 by oldmanfan

[The Jokeman]

I'll say it again, bring in Jim Rutherford for the rest of the season to oversee the rest of the year. Then let him  make the moves that need to be made with the GM or HC etc as need after the season. I want Krueger gone yesterday but without Eichel or Ullmark this team isn't going to be able to compete as we've seen. 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

20 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

McD had a definitive plan and process in place

 

 

[May Day 10]

32 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

 

 

Regardless, I am sure Kruger will be gone.  Adams I think deserves a shot to bring in a HC that he feels matches how he wants to build a team, and given his experience in the league he should have a pretty good idea what he thinks will work.  And before he looks for a HC,  if I'm Terry and Kim I have Adams spend some time with McD and Beane to discuss general philosophies and methods to establish the process and culture he wants and needs.  Then Terry and Kim need to let him do it, and if that means moving a ton of players out fine by me.  I don't think they need a President of Hockey; they need a competent GM and HC that are in sync for once, and they need to make it clear to the players who drives the bus.

And for God's sakes find a goaile!

 

the problem i have with this, is Adams doesnt have any experience.  Not even as AGM that guys like Drury, Brodeur, Francis, Sakic, Yzerman etc do for years.  Adams has spent time under PS&E performing roles not closely related to the hockey department at all.  His limited experience comes here with the Sabres at this clown college.  

His appeal to the Pegulas is that he has an education, played hockey and lives in Buffalo, a nice guy, and is willing to completely be subservient to ownership and probably Krueger/the coach.  That is not a real GM, and I have no interest in the Sabres allowing him to try to learn on the job.  This is a massive lift to restore this franchise and needs experienced hands from the outside, who is given full autonomy from the Pegulas.  They dont even allow their GMs to choose and move on from their coach anymore.  They will never attract a serious candidate like that.

 

Furthermore, they completely pooped on their reputation with what they pulled this Summer with some pretty awful cold-hearted moves.   This organization has a credibility issue on all fronts and needs a Rutherford/Lombardi/Dudley to restore it.

[The Jokeman]

15 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

the problem i have with this, is Adams doesnt have any experience.  Not even as AGM that guys like Drury, Brodeur, Francis, Sakic, Yzerman etc do for years.  Adams has spent time under PS&E performing roles not closely related to the hockey department at all.  His limited experience comes here with the Sabres at this clown college.  

His appeal to the Pegulas is that he has an education, played hockey and lives in Buffalo, a nice guy, and is willing to completely be subservient to ownership and probably Krueger/the coach.  That is not a real GM, and I have no interest in the Sabres allowing him to try to learn on the job.  This is a massive lift to restore this franchise and needs experienced hands from the outside, who is given full autonomy from the Pegulas.  They dont even allow their GMs to choose and move on from their coach anymore.  They will never attract a serious candidate like that.

 

Furthermore, they completely pooped on their reputation with what they pulled this Summer with some pretty awful cold-hearted moves.   This organization has a credibility issue on all fronts and needs a Rutherford/Lombardi/Dudley to restore it.

I'd love to see Mike Peca behind the bench but think we burned a bridge with him since he's coaching in Washington and no longer part of the organization anymore. 

[May Day 10]

To me, who is behind the bench isnt even important anymore.  Coaches in the NHL are basically throw-away mercenaries with few exceptions.  The Pegulas seem to be looking for a life-partner.   You also need your GM to hold the clout and be free to fire/hire the coach as needed.  

 

They need to fix the structure and the manning of the front office.  A complete overhaul is necessary.  Someone who has high-level front office experience in multiple organizations and has experienced a winner(s).  Any coach will have very little chance to succeed.  If they do grab a really good coach, they may see a temporary bump for a few months but it will crater.  

 

Watching Kim Pegula implement her management 101 night school concepts, Terry pretending he has some incredible ability to read-judge-and hire people, Krueger's phony six-sigma shtick is enough to drive me to the mad-house.  

[Greg S]

7 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

To me, who is behind the bench isnt even important anymore.  Coaches in the NHL are basically throw-away mercenaries with few exceptions.  The Pegulas seem to be looking for a life-partner.   You also need your GM to hold the clout and be free to fire/hire the coach as needed.  

 

They need to fix the structure and the manning of the front office.  A complete overhaul is necessary.  Someone who has high-level front office experience in multiple organizations and has experienced a winner(s).  Any coach will have very little chance to succeed.  If they do grab a really good coach, they may see a temporary bump for a few months but it will crater.  

 

Watching Kim Pegula implement her management 101 night school concepts, Terry pretending he has some incredible ability to read-judge-and hire people, Krueger's phony six-sigma shtick is enough to drive me to the mad-house.  

 

I would disagree with this. Look at the Isles with Barry Trotz. Talent wise on paper the Isles are OK but their are other teams that have better rosters. Trotz took them to ECF last year and has them in 1st Place (so far) this year. Coaching does matter. I agree with those who suggest the Sabres need to bring in an experienced hockey man to run the show. Let them evaluate the GM, HC, players, scouts, everything and make the necessary changes. It's what the Isles did when they gave total control to Lou Lamoriello and look at them now. The Pegula's have gotten it right with the Bills but they are failing miserably with the Sabres.

[May Day 10]

I said with few exceptions.  Trotz would be one of them (maybe the only one?)   Lou also has made an art-form of tossing coaches into the trash can, even in 1st place weeks from the playoffs.  Trotz though is probably the 1 guy you would mold your team around.  Everyone else in the league has a limited shelf-life.

Edited March 16, 2021 by May Day 10

[oldmanfan]

49 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

the problem i have with this, is Adams doesnt have any experience.  Not even as AGM that guys like Drury, Brodeur, Francis, Sakic, Yzerman etc do for years.  Adams has spent time under PS&E performing roles not closely related to the hockey department at all.  His limited experience comes here with the Sabres at this clown college.  

His appeal to the Pegulas is that he has an education, played hockey and lives in Buffalo, a nice guy, and is willing to completely be subservient to ownership and probably Krueger/the coach.  That is not a real GM, and I have no interest in the Sabres allowing him to try to learn on the job.  This is a massive lift to restore this franchise and needs experienced hands from the outside, who is given full autonomy from the Pegulas.  They dont even allow their GMs to choose and move on from their coach anymore.  They will never attract a serious candidate like that.

 

Furthermore, they completely pooped on their reputation with what they pulled this Summer with some pretty awful cold-hearted moves.   This organization has a credibility issue on all fronts and needs a Rutherford/Lombardi/Dudley to restore it.

I could see having Duds consult at the very least

[May Day 10]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I could see having Duds consult at the very least

 

Apparently they spoke this Summer but the Pegulas decided against it.

 

He would be perfect IMO.  He has been in numerous organizations in many roles, and has seen what works and what doesnt.  Lots of credibility and he likely has a huge rolodex of contacts and people who can be hired.

[BillsFan4]

On 3/14/2021 at 2:57 PM, oldmanfan said:

What exactly should the Sabres have done when O'Reilly basically said he wanted out and wouldn't play hard for the Sabres?  All this stems from having a kid whose motivation to play is questionable as captain.  Now I hope Eichel is not hurt badly of course; neck injuries are terrible and we should all hope this does not end the kid's career.  But when I say kid, I mean kid.  He has no business being the captain of the team.  Your captain has to lead, to motivate, to demand accountability.  Is there any evidence he does so?

 

Is there really any evidence that the players on this team are motivated, that they are hungry to win?  Not that I can see, except for a young guy like Cozens who will actually go hard into a corner and fight for the puck.  Get a captain worthy of the title, get guys on the team that give a damn, and if you have players that cannot sack up and play hard they are useless and need to go away.

ROR never said he wanted out or wouldn’t play hard for the Sabres. He said all the losing made him question his love for the game at multiple points during the season and that type of losing minds set had to change. He was 100% right.

He also directly said that he did not want to be traded.

 

He was saying that the losing mind set is unacceptable. Said that it even crept into his own game at times and it had to change. Called it out in the press and was immediately shipped out the door by the Pegulas (rumors from Sabres beat writers and Elliott Friedman are they demanded he be traded before the bonus was due).

He went to St. Louis, was one of the main reasons they won a Cup and is now their team captain. He has since said that having some veteran leadership around him made all the difference.

I never really questioned ROR’s effort on the ice, outside of maybe a few occasional shifts (but the same could be said of almost any player). He was usually the last guy on the ice at practice every day too. 
 

I agree with you that the players deserve much of the blame, but I disagree that this all stems from Eichel. He’s been about the only Sabre to consistently perform every season. 
 

Eichel wasn’t even in the lineup last night. How was he supposed to motivate the players to play?
 

 

IMO What should have been done is surround ROR and Eichel with more veteran talent. 
 

The Sabres have had some type of organizational philosophy in place from the start of the rebuild that if they made any big trades or moves it had to be for guys 25 or younger (Tim Murray used to say this often).

 

That sounds good in theory, but what did any of these 25yr old players know about winning in the NHL? 
 

ROR came from losing in Colorado.

Kane & Bogosian came from losing in Winnipeg

 

Eichel gets blamed for not being a good enough leader but who has he ever had to teach him or help him? Besides other young guys that came from losing or washed up veterans at the ends of their career?

 

Eichel had an MVP worthy campaign last season and almost single handedly carrier the whole team the majority of the year. He’s been responsible for something like 60% of the Sabres offense in his career here. No other player in the NHL besides McDavid has carried play for their team more than Eichel.

 

His attitude definitely isn’t the best at times. He doesn’t handle losing the greatest (because he hates to lose) and tends to show his frustrations (poor facial expressions, breaking his stick, etc) but he has improved in that area quite a bit as he’s matured. And he’s still a kid. He just recently turned 24. 

 

Who else has even been worthy of the captaincy in Eichel’s time here (since Gionta left)? Maybe ROR? 

 

There was a really good article over on the athletic where Tim Graham interviewed a bunch of the Sabres ex captains. It’s a good read if you have an athletic subscription. They sum up a lot of the issues with the Sabres pretty well.

 

Heres some of what they had to say on Eichel and leadership:

https://theathletic.com/2426679/2021/03/05/former-sabres-captains-weigh-in-on-teams-woes-a-whole-new-kind-of-unwatchable/
 

Quote

I feel bad for Jack Eichel. He gets a bad rap because he has gone through so many coaches and GMs in a short time. Maybe some of it is his fault because he calls the organization out, but he doesn’t have any kind of leadership around him to show him the right way.

 

Giving him the “C” when they did looks great on paper, to be able to show the NHL your 20-year-old star is a captain so early in his career. Just look at our franchise player! But in reality, you’ve put a tremendous amount of pressure on a very young player.
 

You need to bring in more character to surround Eichel, Dahlin, Reinhart, Ristolainen. A good core of young players exists for the Sabres to build around, but you have to surround them with better leaders. You look up and down the current roster and don’t see any names you could point to as someone to keep everything together. Who does Jack Eichel look to? Taylor Hall, who was part of an Edmonton team that learned how to lose? Who bails out Jack Eichel? 

 Another captain:
 

Quote

Leadership is a huge question mark. I can’t judge the character in the locker room because I’m not in there, and I don’t know Jack Eichel well enough to know if he’s an effective leader, but I do know that players need to be taught how to be leaders. They traded for Eric Staal, who provides veteran leadership, but does he really want to be there? Staal was traded to Buffalo. He didn’t sign there by choice. I’m no GM, but three or four years ago I would have surrounded Eichel with two or three older veterans and even been willing to overpay them to make sure they’re happy and want to be in Buffalo and willing to teach Eichel what being a leader means.

 

You need to create that culture. Everybody talks about culture, but what is culture? You can’t just conjure it up from one day to the next. It takes years. Right now, the Sabres’ culture is Jack Eichel. Think about that. And the entire time it has been losing, losing, losing. He’s not learning from anyone how to be a winner...

 

...We can go back eight years, and I just don’t see too many leaders. They haven’t done anything. They haven’t been anywhere. They don’t make a difference.

 

They also said it is on coaching to correct this. One mentioned that Krueger looks in over his head and they have no idea what his system is supposed to be.

 

Quote

Getting out of that is up to the coach. The rah-rah days are gone in sports. “Let’s go out and kick their asses” doesn’t work with today’s players. Although I did like seeing Dylan Cozens fight Tuesday night. That was just a frustrated Western Hockey League kid who wanted to stand up and be counted. But that’s not enough.

 

I can’t figure out what style Krueger wants them to play. Maybe you can. “Confusion” might be what it’s called. So changing lines won’t do anything. You have to change your style. You can’t force a style if it doesn’t fit your roster. You have to roll out a style your players can provide. They have really good players with one goal or two goals.

...I just think Ralph’s in over his head...

 

 

I agree 100% that the core of this team needs to change, and drastically. I also agree that a lot of the blame rests with the players and that we can’t keep cycling through coaches. I think they need to find a good coach and stick with him. Changing philosophies every 2-3 years makes it impossible to build anything.

 

But before we do something drastic like trade our young franchise player that we tanked 2 straight seasons to get, I’d sure like to see what this team looks like with an actual proven successful NHL coach like Bruce Boudreau (who would reportedly love to coach here) and some actual veteran talent around him. The Sabres have yet to hire a proven veteran coach since Dan Bylsma (who wasn’t exactly a top tier coach but still has the best overall record of any Sabres coach since Lindy ruff. No coach since has matched his 81pt season). If the Sabres hire someone like Boudreau, who’s improved + won with every team he’s ever coached and only missed the playoffs once (or twice) in his entire career, and this team still can’t improve then you know 100% it’s the players. Right now, coaching is just as big a question mark as the players, if not bigger. 
 

When every single solitary player on the team is underperforming it’s hard not to blame the coaching staff. 

Who else do you blame for an entire roster underperforming? 

 

Housley had no real experience. Krueger had no real experience. We now have a totally inexperienced rookie GM with no prior NHL front office experience who was running a junior hockey program a couple years ago. He has No assistant GMs. 1/2 a scouting staff. Inexperienced rookie heads of pro and amateur scouting.

Id like to at least see what an experienced coach can do before this current rookie crew trades away our best players.

31 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

Apparently they spoke this Summer but the Pegulas decided against it.

 

He would be perfect IMO.  He has been in numerous organizations in many roles, and has seen what works and what doesnt.  Lots of credibility and he likely has a huge rolodex of contacts and people who can be hired.

He also designed + implemented the exact scouting system (in Carolina) the Sabres are now trying to put in place, and he knows how to maximize a small budget.

 

He was actually interested in coming here too. But Like you said, for whatever reason the Pegulas decided not to bring him in.

 

He really would have been the perfect hire (assuming he was empowered to make the changes that needed to be made). 

Edited March 16, 2021 by BillsFan4

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

ROR never said he wanted out or wouldn’t play hard for the Sabres. He said all the losing made him question his love for the game at multiple points during the season and that type of losing minds set had to change. He was 100% right.

He also directly said that he did not want to be traded.

 

He was saying that the losing mind set is unacceptable. Said that it even crept into his own game at times and it had to change. Called it out in the press and was immediately shipped out the door by the Pegulas (rumors from Sabres beat writers and Elliott Friedman are they demanded he be traded before the bonus was due).

He went to St. Louis, was one of the main reasons they won a Cup and is now their team captain. He has since said that having some veteran leadership around him made all the difference.

I never really questioned ROR’s effort on the ice, outside of maybe a few occasional shifts (but the same could be said of almost any player). He was usually the last guy on the ice at practice every day too. 
 

I agree with you that the players deserve much of the blame, but I disagree that this all stems from Eichel. He’s been about the only Sabre to consistently perform every season. 
 

Eichel wasn’t even in the lineup last night. How was he supposed to motivate the players to play?
 

 

IMO What should have been done is surround ROR and Eichel with more veteran talent. 
 

The Sabres have had some type of organizational philosophy in place from the start of the rebuild that if they made any big trades or moves it had to be for guys 25 or younger (Tim Murray used to say this often).

 

That sounds good in theory, but what did any of these 25yr old players know about winning in the NHL? 
 

ROR came from losing in Colorado.

Kane & Bogosian came from losing in Winnipeg

 

Eichel gets blamed for not being a good enough leader but who has he ever had to teach him or help him? Besides other young guys that came from losing or washed up veterans at the ends of their career?

 

Eichel had an MVP worthy campaign last season and almost single handedly carrier the whole team the majority of the year. He’s been responsible for something like 60% of the Sabres offense in his career here. No other player in the NHL besides McDavid has carried play for their team more than Eichel.

 

His attitude definitely isn’t the best at times. He doesn’t handle losing the greatest (because he hates to lose) and tends to show his frustrations (poor facial expressions, breaking his stick, etc) but he has improved in that area quite a bit as he’s matured. And he’s still a kid. He just recently turned 24. 

 

Who else has even been worthy of the captaincy in Eichel’s time here (since Gionta left)? Maybe ROR? 

 

There was a really good article over on the athletic where Tim Graham interviewed a bunch of the Sabres ex captains. It’s a good read if you have an athletic subscription. They sum up a lot of the issues with the Sabres pretty well.

 

Heres some of what they had to say on Eichel and leadership:

https://theathletic.com/2426679/2021/03/05/former-sabres-captains-weigh-in-on-teams-woes-a-whole-new-kind-of-unwatchable/
 

 Another captain:
 

 

They also said it is on coaching to correct this. One mentioned that Krueger looks in over his head and they have no idea what his system is supposed to be.

 

 

 

I agree 100% that the core of this team needs to change, and drastically. I also agree that a lot of the blame rests with the players and that we can’t keep cycling through coaches. I think they need to find a good coach and stick with him. Changing philosophies every 2-3 years makes it impossible to build anything.

 

But before we do something drastic like trade our young franchise player that we tanked 2 straight seasons to get, I’d sure like to see what this team looks like with an actual proven successful NHL coach like Bruce Boudreau (who would reportedly love to coach here) and some actual veteran talent around him. The Sabres have yet to hire a proven veteran coach since Dan Bylsma (who wasn’t exactly a top tier coach but still has the best overall record of any Sabres coach since Lindy ruff. No coach since has matched his 81pt season). If the Sabres hire someone like Boudreau, who’s improved + won with every team he’s ever coached and only missed the playoffs once (or twice) in his entire career, and this team still can’t improve then you know 100% it’s the players. Right now, coaching is just as big a question mark as the players, if not bigger. 
 

When every single solitary player on the team is underperforming it’s hard not to blame the coaching staff. 

Who else do you blame for an entire roster underperforming? 

 

Housley had no real experience. Krueger had no real experience. We now have a totally inexperienced rookie GM with no prior NHL front office experience who was running a junior hockey program a couple years ago. He has No assistant GMs. 1/2 a scouting staff. Inexperienced rookie heads of pro and amateur scouting.

Id like to at least see what an experienced coach can do before this current rookie crew trades away our best players.

He also designed + implemented the exact scouting system (in Carolina) the Sabres are now trying to put in place, and he knows how to maximize a small budget.

 

He was actually interested in coming here too. But Like you said, for whatever reason the Pegulas decided not to bring him in.

 

He really would have been the perfect hire (assuming he was empowered to make the changes that needed to be made). 

Great stuff here.  Good dialog.  

[K-9]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

ROR never said he wanted out or wouldn’t play hard for the Sabres. He said all the losing made him question his love for the game at multiple points during the season and that type of losing minds set had to change. He was 100% right.

He also directly said that he did not want to be traded.

 

He was saying that the losing mind set is unacceptable. Said that it even crept into his own game at times and it had to change. Called it out in the press and was immediately shipped out the door by the Pegulas (rumors from Sabres beat writers and Elliott Friedman are they demanded he be traded before the bonus was due).

He went to St. Louis, was one of the main reasons they won a Cup and is now their team captain. He has since said that having some veteran leadership around him made all the difference.

I never really questioned ROR’s effort on the ice, outside of maybe a few occasional shifts (but the same could be said of almost any player). He was usually the last guy on the ice at practice every day too. 
 

I agree with you that the players deserve much of the blame, but I disagree that this all stems from Eichel. He’s been about the only Sabre to consistently perform every season. 
 

Eichel wasn’t even in the lineup last night. How was he supposed to motivate the players to play?
 

 

IMO What should have been done is surround ROR and Eichel with more veteran talent. 
 

The Sabres have had some type of organizational philosophy in place from the start of the rebuild that if they made any big trades or moves it had to be for guys 25 or younger (Tim Murray used to say this often).

 

That sounds good in theory, but what did any of these 25yr old players know about winning in the NHL? 
 

ROR came from losing in Colorado.

Kane & Bogosian came from losing in Winnipeg

 

Eichel gets blamed for not being a good enough leader but who has he ever had to teach him or help him? Besides other young guys that came from losing or washed up veterans at the ends of their career?

 

Eichel had an MVP worthy campaign last season and almost single handedly carrier the whole team the majority of the year. He’s been responsible for something like 60% of the Sabres offense in his career here. No other player in the NHL besides McDavid has carried play for their team more than Eichel.

 

His attitude definitely isn’t the best at times. He doesn’t handle losing the greatest (because he hates to lose) and tends to show his frustrations (poor facial expressions, breaking his stick, etc) but he has improved in that area quite a bit as he’s matured. And he’s still a kid. He just recently turned 24. 

 

Who else has even been worthy of the captaincy in Eichel’s time here (since Gionta left)? Maybe ROR? 

 

There was a really good article over on the athletic where Tim Graham interviewed a bunch of the Sabres ex captains. It’s a good read if you have an athletic subscription. They sum up a lot of the issues with the Sabres pretty well.

 

Heres some of what they had to say on Eichel and leadership:

https://theathletic.com/2426679/2021/03/05/former-sabres-captains-weigh-in-on-teams-woes-a-whole-new-kind-of-unwatchable/
 

 Another captain:
 

 

They also said it is on coaching to correct this. One mentioned that Krueger looks in over his head and they have no idea what his system is supposed to be.

 

 

 

I agree 100% that the core of this team needs to change, and drastically. I also agree that a lot of the blame rests with the players and that we can’t keep cycling through coaches. I think they need to find a good coach and stick with him. Changing philosophies every 2-3 years makes it impossible to build anything.

 

But before we do something drastic like trade our young franchise player that we tanked 2 straight seasons to get, I’d sure like to see what this team looks like with an actual proven successful NHL coach like Bruce Boudreau (who would reportedly love to coach here) and some actual veteran talent around him. The Sabres have yet to hire a proven veteran coach since Dan Bylsma (who wasn’t exactly a top tier coach but still has the best overall record of any Sabres coach since Lindy ruff. No coach since has matched his 81pt season). If the Sabres hire someone like Boudreau, who’s improved + won with every team he’s ever coached and only missed the playoffs once (or twice) in his entire career, and this team still can’t improve then you know 100% it’s the players. Right now, coaching is just as big a question mark as the players, if not bigger. 
 

When every single solitary player on the team is underperforming it’s hard not to blame the coaching staff. 

Who else do you blame for an entire roster underperforming? 

 

Housley had no real experience. Krueger had no real experience. We now have a totally inexperienced rookie GM with no prior NHL front office experience who was running a junior hockey program a couple years ago. He has No assistant GMs. 1/2 a scouting staff. Inexperienced rookie heads of pro and amateur scouting.

Id like to at least see what an experienced coach can do before this current rookie crew trades away our best players.

He also designed + implemented the exact scouting system (in Carolina) the Sabres are now trying to put in place, and he knows how to maximize a small budget.

 

He was actually interested in coming here too. But Like you said, for whatever reason the Pegulas decided not to bring him in.

 

He really would have been the perfect hire (assuming he was empowered to make the changes that needed to be made). 

Exposing Reinhart, Eichel, and other young players to the likes of Kane and Bogosian was Murray’s biggest mistake. Bogosian, especially, is the poster boy for a player that’s perfectly comfortable with losing. 

[Jauronimo]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Exposing Reinhart, Eichel, and other young players to the likes of Kane and Bogosian was Murray’s biggest mistake. Bogosian, especially, is the poster boy for a player that’s perfectly comfortable with losing. 

And Kane was so enamored with it that when he wasn't losing on the ice he was busy losing at the tables in Vegas to the point where he has lost his NHL career.  You have to admire his commitment to losing.

[4merper4mer]

20 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Exposing Reinhart, Eichel, and other young players to the likes of Kane and Bogosian was Murray’s biggest mistake. Bogosian, especially, is the poster boy for a player that’s perfectly comfortable with losing. 

Don’t forget getting a goalie who had severe mental issues.  I’m glad he turned things around but he hurt the team and cost resources.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Bills: 13 wins in a 16-game season.

Sabres: 6 wins in a 56-game season.

[thenorthremembers]

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Whoever called him the Dick Jauron of Sabres coaches was dead on.   The guy was way over his head.

Edited March 17, 2021 by thenorthremembers

[K-9]

The irony of Skinner scoring our last goal in Ralph’s tenure is downright poetic.

[Beerball]

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 minutes ago, Beerball said:

Yolo!!!  Get OUT!!!  😳

[May Day 10]

Bottom line is they still have an organization in shambles.  Kevyn Adams has no experience or qualifications, nor it is it clear he even has authority.  They have this Nightengale intern level guy upjumped to head up like 3 departments.  Nothing is changing here.  I expect them to dive into the milquetoast pool of NCAA coaches who almost never work out.

 

 

[Jauronimo]

2 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

Bottom line is they still have an organization in shambles.  Kevyn Adams has no experience or qualifications, nor it is it clear he even has authority.  They have this Nightengale intern level guy upjumped to head up like 3 departments.  Nothing is changing here.  I expect them to dive into the milquetoast pool of NCAA coaches who almost never work out.

 

 

Krueger being fired was kinda exciting until you think about Kevyn Adams or Kim Pegula hiring the next coach.  Maybe with the price of WTI back at $65 PSE can afford a total reorg and put someone competent in charge of the hockey operations.