Football in a pandemic era. It’s been done before..

[Chandler#81]

https://www.oregonlive.com/collegefootball/2020/05/lessons-from-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-is-a-murky-guide-for-college-football-in-coronavirus-era.html

[machine gun kelly]

50,000,000 people died in 1918.  The lesser quarantined cities had the greatest deaths.  Still think we should have 80,000 people in New Era in the field in September.  Thanks for sharing Chandler.

That was only for the minority thinking there should be no restrictions which again is the significant minority.

[Mickey]

Objective thinking is pretty difficult on this issue if being a football fan and especially a Bills fan is important to you. We are likely to be inherently biased towards the outcome we so badly desire. Not meant as a criticism of anyone, just an observation. Its kinda like judging a skating routine when your daughter is a contestant. Hard times, hard choices.    

[Success]

41 minutes ago, Mickey said:

Objective thinking is pretty difficult on this issue if being a football fan and especially a Bills fan is important to you. We are likely to be inherently biased towards the outcome we so badly desire. Not meant as a criticism of anyone, just an observation. Its kinda like judging a skating routine when your daughter is a contestant. Hard times, hard choices.    

This is really true.

 

I find that the Bills being able to play this year is a little consuming for me.  As a fan, I've basically waited 20 years for this season.  I've endured a lot (fan-wise) to get to a point where a division rival that has owned us is suddenly vulnerable, and our own team is finally built to contend. I want badly to see the script flipped, asap - to sweep the Pats and to take the division, and go on a deep playoff run. All to hopefully bury the demons that have built up over the years.

 

I look at everything else that's going on, and of course feel sort of petty for making sports and the Bills such a priority.  But it is what it is, as they say.

 

[thurst44]

47 minutes ago, Mickey said:

Objective thinking is pretty difficult on this issue if being a football fan and especially a Bills fan is important to you. We are likely to be inherently biased towards the outcome we so badly desire. Not meant as a criticism of anyone, just an observation. Its kinda like judging a skating routine when your daughter is a contestant. Hard times, hard choices.    

It's a fair point, but for the record, I could really use the distraction of football, plus this being the season football is not played would be such a Bills thing. Also, I'd really love to go to a game, either near me when they come to play the Jets, or going up to Buffalo to meet up with old friends. That being said, I want them to go as slow as they have to in order to ensure safety. The Spanish flu flared up when people thought they were in the clear too fast and much of the resurgence can be tracked to one parade in Philadelphia.

 

There's precedent for playing during a Pandemic, yes, but if you want to look at one of the bad outcomes, look at the 1919 Stanley Cup, where the flu ravaged the Montreal Canadiens, killing player Joe Hall 4 days after they canceled the deciding game, and manager George Kennedy two years later after never he never truly recovered, ending the year with no champion declared. 

[Mr. WEO]

life was more straightforward before vaccines.  Or antibiotics. Or vents and intensive care.  

 

You just dropped dead..

[MJS]

The "Hong Kong Flu" pandemic in 1968 killed 100,000 people in the US.

 

In 1957 the "Asian Flu" killed 116,000 people in the US.

 

Both significantly more than COVID-19 (so far) when you account for population growth.

Edited May 25, 2020 by MJS

[RiotAct]

1 hour ago, Success said:

This is really true.

 

I find that the Bills being able to play this year is a little consuming for me.  As a fan, I've basically waited 20 years for this season.  I've endured a lot (fan-wise) to get to a point where a division rival that has owned us is suddenly vulnerable, and our own team is finally built to contend. I want badly to see the script flipped, asap - to sweep the Pats and to take the division, and go on a deep playoff run. All to hopefully bury the demons that have built up over the years.

Exactly. It’s the last vestige of the “things to look forward to” barrel for 2020.  Even a season with no fans at the games would be a big bright spot.

 

And it’s not selfish to hope for a season with fans at the game. 

[Johnnycage46]

46 minutes ago, MJS said:

The "Hong Kong Flu" pandemic in 1968 killed 100,000 people in the US.

 

In 1957 the "Asian Flu" killed 116,000 people in the US.

 

Both significantly more than COVID-19 when you account for population growth.

 

Both of those pandemics had a global death rate below 1%.  Whereas COVID-19 currently has a global death rate of ~6%.  Can't just look at the total number of deaths.  The death rate is a more significant factor.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Success said:

This is really true.

 

I find that the Bills being able to play this year is a little consuming for me.  As a fan, I've basically waited 20 years for this season.  I've endured a lot (fan-wise) to get to a point where a division rival that has owned us is suddenly vulnerable, and our own team is finally built to contend. I want badly to see the script flipped, asap - to sweep the Pats and to take the division, and go on a deep playoff run. All to hopefully bury the demons that have built up over the years.

 

I look at everything else that's going on, and of course feel sort of petty for making sports and the Bills such a priority.  But it is what it is, as they say.

 

 

Yeah, I can think of A LOT of other years I’d rather have messed with! 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Scariest part of COVID-19 isn't the actual virus it's that I've realized half the country doesn't trust the media and the other half doesn't trust the government.

 

This is very scary to me.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Johnnycage46]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Scariest part of COVID-19 isn't the actual virus it's that I've realized half the country doesn't trust the media and the other half doesn't trust the government.

 

This is very scary to me.

 

The scariest part to me is how it seems like a lot of people are putting their own little selfish needs before the health of others.  For example, my neighbor here in Henrietta (suburb of Rochester) has about 15 cars worth of people at her (presumed) Memorial Day party.  I get that we all want to get back to normal, but the more people start to stray outside the lines, the more likely it would seem that we'll all have a longer lock-down, no live events (including the NFL), and continued quarantine misery.  Sucks.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Johnnycage46

[SoCal Deek]

Are there typically a bunch of 85 year old people in the stands at New Era? I hadn’t noticed many vans pulling into the stadium lots from local nursing homes.

[RiotAct]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Scariest part of COVID-19 isn't the actual virus it's that I've realized half the country doesn't trust the media and the other half doesn't trust the government.

 

This is very scary to me.

why is that scary?  Neither entity has done a whole lot recently to earn our trust...

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

why is that scary?  Neither entity has done a whole lot recently to earn our trust...

Why? Think about why it would be bad if people don't trust media or the government.

[SoCal Deek]

27 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

The scariest part to me is how it seems like a lot of people are putting their own little selfish needs before the health of others.  For example, my neighbor here in Henrietta (suburb of Rochester) has about 15 cars worth of people at here (presumed) Memorial Day party.  I get that we all want to get back to normal, but the more people start to stray outside the lines, the more likely it would seem that we'll all have a longer lock-down, no live events (including the NFL), and continued quarantine misery.  Sucks.

Freedom is a terrible mistress.

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

People quarantining themselves won’t eradicate the virus, it will only lessen the amount of sick people at the same time. If everyone went home and stayed apart until football season, there’s still no football season, because the virus still exists. We can’t quarantine the virus out of existence. 

Correct: We need to temper the eggs of society by mixing the virus into the population until it’s slowly reduced to a non crisis level. Viruses and germs are everywhere. It’s just that you don’t think about them because are bodies have an amazing immune system wonderfully designed to keep the species from being eradicated. It’s worked for thousands and thousands of years.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

21 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Freedom is a terrible mistress.

US is not free. There are freedoms. US citizens can't do whatever they want.

 

It's unbelievable to me that this discussion exists because of a health emergency. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Scariest part of COVID-19 isn't the actual virus it's that I've realized half the country doesn't trust the media and the other half doesn't trust the government.

 

This is very scary to me.

Why would you trust the media? It's actual propaganda that's legal

 

All they do is try to push us further apart as human beings

 

Media has covered up and spread only the information they want out from Nazi Germany to USSR, People's republic of China, and the US media is no different

 

It's all propaganda

Edited May 24, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Johnnycage46]

12 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Correct: We need to temper the eggs of society by mixing the virus into the population until it’s slowly reduced to a non crisis level. Viruses and germs are everywhere. It’s just that you don’t think about them because are bodies have an amazing immune system wonderfully designed to keep the species from being eradicated. It’s worked for thousands and thousands of years.

 

27 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Freedom is a terrible mistress.

 

Don't confuse freedom with selfishness.  Freedom to do what you want is your right...but it isn't someone's right to live their free life while endangering others.  Comparably...drunk driving....hey man....freedom!!!!

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Why would you trust the media? It's actual propaganda that's legal

 

All they do is try to push us further apart as human beings

 

Media has covered up and spread only the information they want out from Nazi Germany to USSR, People's republic of China, and the US media is no different

 

It's all propaganda

And why would anyone trust the government?   Most of which are self serving slime balls who will change their "beliefs" at the drop of a hat to stay in office and keep that sweet power.

[Doc Brown]

59 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Are there typically a bunch of 85 year old people in the stands at New Era? I hadn’t noticed many vans pulling into the stadium lots from local nursing homes.

A lot of fans visit 85 year olds between games.  That's why you're going to see empty stadiums this fall.

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Are there typically a bunch of 85 year old people in the stands at New Era? I hadn’t noticed many vans pulling into the stadium lots from local nursing homes.

A man and his daughter who sat next to me with seasons was probably 80 years old

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

Both of those pandemics had a global death rate below 1%.  Whereas COVID-19 currently has a global death rate of ~6%.  Can't just look at the total number of deaths.  The death rate is a more significant factor.

Death rate can't be calculated yet for COVID-19 because we don't know the number of cases.

[SoCal Deek]

32 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

A man and his daughter who sat next to me with seasons was probably 80 years old

They probably should sit this season out.

[Johnnycage46]

13 minutes ago, MJS said:

Death rate can't be calculated yet for COVID-19 because we don't know the number of cases.

So then it might be best to stop comparing other pandemics to this one until the dust settles.  I mean, if we dont yet have all the data, comparisons are pointless.

[MJS]

26 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

So then it might be best to stop comparing other pandemics to this one until the dust settles.  I mean, if we dont yet have all the data, comparisons are pointless.

Yes, it will take a a couple years for all of the COVID-19 data to be collected and estimated.

 

But comparison is what this entire thread is about.

Edited May 24, 2020 by MJS

[Johnnycage46]

7 minutes ago, MJS said:

Yes, it will take a a couple years for all of the COVID-19 data to be collected and estimated.

 

But comparison is what this entire thread is about.

So then we CAN use the incomplete data set to draw parallels?  Then the death rate data I presented is still v as laid in this application.

[Nelius]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

The "Hong Kong Flu" pandemic in 1968 killed 100,000 people in the US.

 

In 1957 the "Asian Flu" killed 116,000 people in the US.

 

Both significantly more than COVID-19 when you account for population growth.

 

Interesting that some are acting like this is over. We've lost nearly 100,000 in our country alone in just the past 3 months. This is going to be worse. Just the first wave will be worse.

 

1 hour ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

 

Don't confuse freedom with selfishness.  Freedom to do what you want is your right...but it isn't someone's right to live their free life while endangering others.  Comparably...drunk driving....hey man....freedom!!!!

 

Totally agree, and some are seemingly confusing freedom with straight-up anarchy right now. Bunch of entitled fools out there.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Nelius

[MJS]

37 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

So then we CAN use the incomplete data set to draw parallels?  Then the death rate data I presented is still v as laid in this application.

Nope. What gave you that idea?

22 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

Interesting that some are acting like this is over. We've lost nearly 100,000 in our country alone in just the past 3 months. This is going to be worse. Just the first wave will be worse.

 

Who is acting like it is over?

[Nelius]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Who is acting like it is over?

 

I mean, if you're going to compare it to the Hong Kong Flu, which killed as many in this country overall as what Covid has so far, and then seemingly indicate that Covid isn't as bad, what conclusion am I supposed to make?

[K-9]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

The "Hong Kong Flu" pandemic in 1968 killed 100,000 people in the US.

 

In 1957 the "Asian Flu" killed 116,000 people in the US.

 

Both significantly more than COVID-19 when you account for population growth.

The Hong Kong pandemic lasted over a year. We’ve counted nearly as many deaths in just a few months and will most likely experience a second wave in the fall as well.

[Beast]

3 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

The scariest part to me is how it seems like a lot of people are putting their own little selfish needs before the health of others.  For example, my neighbor here in Henrietta (suburb of Rochester) has about 15 cars worth of people at her (presumed) Memorial Day party.  I get that we all want to get back to normal, but the more people start to stray outside the lines, the more likely it would seem that we'll all have a longer lock-down, no live events (including the NFL), and continued quarantine misery.  Sucks.

 

That doesn't scare me a bit.

 

Walmart and Lowe's must absolutely terrify you.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Why would you trust the media? It's actual propaganda that's legal

 

All they do is try to push us further apart as human beings

 

Media has covered up and spread only the information they want out from Nazi Germany to USSR, People's republic of China, and the US media is no different

 

It's all propaganda

Well you must get information from someone. How do you know they're the ones telling you the truth?

 

 

[Orlando Tim]

4 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

Both of those pandemics had a global death rate below 1%.  Whereas COVID-19 currently has a global death rate of ~6%.  Can't just look at the total number of deaths.  The death rate is a more significant factor.

6% is not the death rate. I can not find where you even found that. The highest I found was 4% and that is of confirmed cases. The death rate is around 1% considering all the people who have had it and not had enough symptoms to get tested. It is good you understand the death rate is important but don't lie.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-covid-death.amp&ved=2ahUKEwj9w4rAzc3pAhWJZs0KHWTNBe0QFjAGegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3o6Y-USGlIKoJEk6YFOPBr&ampcf=1

[Don Otreply]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

The "Hong Kong Flu" pandemic in 1968 killed 100,000 people in the US.

 

In 1957 the "Asian Flu" killed 116,000 people in the US.

 

Both significantly more than COVID-19 when you account for population growth.

In 1968 I had the Hong Kong Flu, it sucked.  Currently we are approaching 100,000.00 dead from Covid -19 and the deaths continue to tally, and will  eclipse the Asian flu in a month. Consider this, we are in a time with far better medical knowledge, so it would appear that Covid -19 is equally or more deadly than these other out breaks, and very likely worse. The time for the final count of Covid-19 deaths has yet to come.  Conservatively it will eclipsed 150,000.00 before this year is over. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Don Otreply

[RyanC883]

4 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

Both of those pandemics had a global death rate below 1%.  Whereas COVID-19 currently has a global death rate of ~6%.  Can't just look at the total number of deaths.  The death rate is a more significant factor.

 

that was his point.  the death rate of those in the US was higher then.  

[Buffalo716]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Well you must get information from someone. How do you know they're the ones telling you the truth?

 

 

I never said I didn't watch the news or read the newspaper. Just that I wouldn't be so fast to call them on our side when it seems their goal is to divide

 

And it always has a spin

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Nelius said:

 

Interesting that some are acting like this is over. We've lost nearly 100,000 in our country alone in just the past 3 months. This is going to be worse. Just the first wave will be worse.

 

 

Totally agree, and some are seemingly confusing freedom with straight-up anarchy right now. Bunch of entitled fools out there.

 

The idea that “this is going to get worse” is overly pessimistic.  I think we will see more cases (obvious when ppl stop staying home and can be exposed) but with fewer deaths. Why:  (1) mask use can cut transmission by 80 percent according to a recent Hong Kong study; and (2) we know who the virus is most likely to kill: the elderly and those with preexisting conditions.  There will be extra precautions taken by those people as well as those who will care for those people.  

59 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

I mean, if you're going to compare it to the Hong Kong Flu, which killed as many in this country overall as what Covid has so far, and then seemingly indicate that Covid isn't as bad, what conclusion am I supposed to make?

 

number of deaths by population.  the population is much larger now, and hopefully we stop sticking sick people in nursing homes.  masks and social distancing will work.  

[Nelius]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

The idea that “this is going to get worse” is overly pessimistic.  I think we will see more cases (obvious when ppl stop staying home and can be exposed) but with fewer deaths. Why:  (1) mask use can cut transmission by 80 percent according to a recent Hong Kong study; and (2) we know who the virus is most likely to kill: the elderly and those with preexisting conditions.  There will be extra precautions taken by those people as well as those who will care for those people.  

 

I didn't say that this will get worse than it is or has been, but rather that it will be worse than the Hong Kong flu overall. I agree with most of what you're saying, but to the original point of the thread even these precautions that you're outlining require major changes in society, and furthermore, that the vast majority of us agree and follow those changes. I think we'll have football. I don't think we'll be able to attend.

[RyanC883]

Just now, Nelius said:

 

I didn't say that this will get worse than it is or has been, but rather that it will be worse than the Hong Kong flu overall. I agree with most of what you're saying, but to the original point of the thread even these precautions that you're outlining require major changes in society, and furthermore, that the vast majority of us agree and follow those changes. I think we'll have football. I don't think we'll be able to attend.

 

I agree.   we likely have football, but will not be able to attend.  if thats the only way to get it this year then okay.  I’ll be in the stands next year to watch us as defending champs.