Gronkowski dead Cap: Pat's Fail

[BBillsWestCoast]

How can the New England Patriot's recover from Gronkowski's dead cap? I believe it is $10 Million. They should be $8 Million under the cap;https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/

 

They will have to cut 1-2 Vet's and only CB J. Johnson is worth cutting... Restructure... and no free agents. They have to draft for need (LBs/OLine/TE/DT). I hope other teams steal everyone!

 

I see them trying to draft Baun or Kmet in round 2. I would love to take either one before they do.

[MrEpsYtown]

Trading Joe Thuney might be something they may have to do.

[thenorthremembers]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Trading Joe Thuney might be something they may have to do.

It's something I fully expect them to do before the draft.  They wont be able to sign him long term so they may as well get a pick and some cap relief from the guy.

 

They trade Thuney and release Sanu and they get back to 20 million under the cap.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Nah, no dead cap involved. His signing bonus proration was done in 2016. Salary doesn't hit dead cap and carries to the new team. Unpaid bonuses also transfer. Workouts haven't started yet and the roster bonus date probably hasn't hit yet.

[aristocrat]

6 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Trading Joe Thuney might be something they may have to do.

 

this was rumored a few days ago. they have to do that. i wonder if the bengals would trade them dalton for him?

[thenorthremembers]

4 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

this was rumored a few days ago. they have to do that. i wonder if the bengals would trade them dalton for him?

The Patriots would still need to clear 2 million more of space to take on Dalton's 2020 contract, but this sound about perfect for both teams.

[CBD]

13 minutes ago, BBillsWestCoast said:

How can the New England Patriot's recover from Gronkowski's dead cap? I believe it is $10 Million. They should be $8 Million under the cap;https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/

 

They will have to cut 1-2 Vet's and only CB J. Johnson is worth cutting... Restructure... and no free agents. They have to draft for need (LBs/OLine/TE/DT). I hope other teams steal everyone!

 

I see them trying to draft Baun or Kmet in round 2. I would love to take either one before they do.

Dead money from Gronk's contract would have been on their cap last season

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, BBillsWestCoast said:

How can the New England Patriot's recover from Gronkowski's dead cap? I believe it is $10 Million. They should be $8 Million under the cap;https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/

 

They will have to cut 1-2 Vet's and only CB J. Johnson is worth cutting... Restructure... and no free agents. They have to draft for need (LBs/OLine/TE/DT). I hope other teams steal everyone!

 

I see them trying to draft Baun or Kmet in round 2. I would love to take either one before they do.

 

Where did you get the $10M from?

 

11 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

It's something I fully expect them to do before the draft.  They wont be able to sign him long term so they may as well get a pick and some cap relief from the guy.

 

They trade Thuney and release Sanu and they get back to 20 million under the cap.

 

They can cut Sanu and free up $6.5M, but leave a hole.  And I can't see anyone trading for Thuney.

 

10 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Nah, no dead cap involved. His signing bonus proration was done in 2016. Salary doesn't hit dead cap and carries to the new team. Unpaid bonuses also transfer. Workouts haven't started yet and the roster bonus date probably hasn't hit yet.

 

The prorated portion of his signing bonus accelerated into last season's cap.

[Southern Bills Fan]

I don’t think any of Gronks money goes on the patriots cap. ESPN says it goes on the bucs cap. 

[aristocrat]

12 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

The Patriots would still need to clear 2 million more of space to take on Dalton's 2020 contract, but this sound about perfect for both teams.

 

i'd honestly be worried about the pats if they got dalton. he'd make them a decent team at least.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Where did you get the $10M from?

 

 

They can cut Sanu and free up $6.5M, but leave a hole.  And I can't see anyone trading for Thuney.

 

 

The prorated portion of his signing bonus accelerated into last season's cap.

 

Looks like he costs 10 mil to the bucs and nothing to NE.  

 

They need to replace sanu before they can cut him - this is probably a good draft to do it.  

 

If they move Thuney their oline just opens up a huge hole at LG.  They made due with Newhouse at LT last year with Wynn hurt again ... and we know that newhouse stinks.  I feel like the guy next to him likely propped him up.  They get andrews back - and mason/cannon are pretty good.  Do you open the huge hole at LG to spread money around or try and fix QB?  I guess?  

 

It's a tough year with all the dead money, you either let it happen and re-stock in 2021 - or try and figure out how to bandaid QB.

Just now, aristocrat said:

 

i'd honestly be worried about the pats if they got dalton. he'd make them a decent team at least.

 

I know the bengals are cheap, but they aren't cutting dalton, they'll wait for a more appropriate value.  Winston might even be cheaper for NE since he lost the musical chairs game.  

[aristocrat]

4 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Looks like he costs 10 mil to the bucs and nothing to NE.  

 

They need to replace sanu before they can cut him - this is probably a good draft to do it.  

 

If they move Thuney their oline just opens up a huge hole at LG.  They made due with Newhouse at LT last year with Wynn hurt again ... and we know that newhouse stinks.  I feel like the guy next to him likely propped him up.  They get andrews back - and mason/cannon are pretty good.  Do you open the huge hole at LG to spread money around or try and fix QB?  I guess?  

 

It's a tough year with all the dead money, you either let it happen and re-stock in 2021 - or try and figure out how to bandaid QB.

 

I know the bengals are cheap, but they aren't cutting dalton, they'll wait for a more appropriate value.  Winston might even be cheaper for NE since he lost the musical chairs game.  

 

that's why i mentioned them trading dalton for thuney. that wouldn't be a terrible deal as they'd at least upgrade their line.

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, aristocrat said:

 

i'd honestly be worried about the pats if they got dalton. he'd make them a decent team at least.

Agree to a point.    He will put them in a much better position than Stidham, but he was bad last season.  Hard to figure out how good he would be for them as he has been pretty average over the last four seasons, but the Bengals have also been a bad organization for awhile now.

 

The Patriots are in a world of hurt right now.  If you look at their roster, it's not very good, and I've always believed their success was more about Brady than it was Belichick.  The thing they have going for them is the East isn't a very good division right now. 

 

Let's hope whoever they start is a tire fire. 

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

i'd honestly be worried about the pats if they got dalton. he'd make them a decent team at least.

 

Dalton's best days are behind him.  And without good skill position players, which he wouldn't have with the Cheaters...

 

5 minutes ago, dneveu said:

Looks like he costs 10 mil to the bucs and nothing to NE.  

 

They need to replace sanu before they can cut him - this is probably a good draft to do it.  

 

If they move Thuney their oline just opens up a huge hole at LG.  They made due with Newhouse at LT last year with Wynn hurt again ... and we know that newhouse stinks.  I feel like the guy next to him likely propped him up.  They get andrews back - and mason/cannon are pretty good.  Do you open the huge hole at LG to spread money around or try and fix QB?  I guess?  

 

It's a tough year with all the dead money, you either let it happen and re-stock in 2021 - or try and figure out how to bandaid QB.

 

Whether you can get a rookie to replace Sanu will depend on training camp.  As for Thuney, if they had Scarnecchia still, they could probably replace him.

[aristocrat]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Dalton's best days are behind him.  And without good skill position players, which he wouldn't have with the Cheaters...

 

 

Whether you can get a rookie to replace Sanu will depend on training camp.  As for Thuney, if they had Scarnecchia still, they could probably replace him.

 

dalton has been on the bengals. he would be going to a team with a great defense, wr's that stay on the field and a very strong run game.  he's 30.  if bill could go 10-6 with cassel he could do that with dalton.  

[Doc]

Just now, aristocrat said:

dalton has been on the bengals. he would be going to a team with a great defense, wr's that stay on the field and a very strong run game.  he's 30.  if bill could go 10-6 with cassel he could do that with dalton.  

 

The Bengals had excellent defenses and skill position players with Dalton.  And Belicheat went 10-6 with Cassel taking over one of the greatest offenses in NFL history.

[Roger Goodell]

In the interests of both fairness and league stability, the league office has decided to allow the New England Patriots $20 million of cap relief for the 2020 season.

 

Also, they will also be granted a fourth round compensatory pick in this week's draft.

[aristocrat]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The Bengals had excellent defenses and skill position players with Dalton.  And Belicheat went 10-6 with Cassel taking over one of the greatest offenses in NFL history.

 

they did years ago but not the last few.  

[Success]

I really hope this season takes place.  The Pats are really set up for a bad one - would be nice to grab a sweep against them after all of these years.

 

 

[chris heff]

I read somewhere that the Pats cap hit was only $2m, sorry I can’t find it.

[Doc]

21 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

they did years ago but not the last few.  

 

Yup and his play has fallen off as a result. 

 

Personally I think they keep him around as insurance and as a mentor for Burrow.

[aristocrat]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Yup and his play has fallen off as a result. 

 

Personally I think they keep him around as insurance and as a mentor for Burrow.

 

that's usually what happens. team around you sucks you tend to do a bit worse.  

[eball]

Pat who?

[Doc]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

that's usually what happens. team around you sucks you tend to do a bit worse.  

 

And I'm saying he'll be playing with worse players than he had with the Bengals.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

50 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

that's why i mentioned them trading dalton for thuney. that wouldn't be a terrible deal as they'd at least upgrade their line.

 

That would have to go down mid-draft i would think.  They'd want to trade for a specific pick for a specific player.  

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

And I'm saying he'll be playing with worse players than he had with the Bengals.

 

I mean - michel/white vs. mixon/bernard.  The oline is a maaaassive upgrade.  WR's of Harry, Edelman, maybe sanu vs. Boyd and... ross?  Plus McDaniels as OC, and a top defense.  He has to do a lot less.  

[aristocrat]

20 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

And I'm saying he'll be playing with worse players than he had with the Bengals.

 

that's wrong. and what if the pats add a wr in this loaded draft?  the pats are much better coached all over. dalton won't have to do much more than game manage to win. 

[cba fan]

26 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I read somewhere that the Pats cap hit was only $2m, sorry I can’t find it.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/rob-gronkowski-6551/

[chris heff]

19 minutes ago, cba fan said:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/rob-gronkowski-6551/

Thanks, so after trade Patriots dead cap hi is $2m.

[Doc]

32 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

that's wrong. and what if the pats add a wr in this loaded draft?  the pats are much better coached all over. dalton won't have to do much more than game manage to win. 

 

The Cheaters don't have a lot of talent on offense, especially suited for Dalton and not Brady, and a rookie WR isn't a sure thing.  Never mind that Belicheat has been incredibly poor at drafting WRs.  And all of this assumes the Bengals would trade Dalton for Thuney and want to pay Thuney $15M/year. 

 

Frankly I don't see Belicheat as interested in Dalton.  I think he'd rather roll with Stidham.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Doc

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, CBD said:

Dead money from Gronk's contract would have been on their cap last season

That is correct.  There was $2M of dead money from an option bonus that hit in 2019. That was it for cap hits against the Patriots. 

[aristocrat]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The Cheaters don't have a lot of talent on offense, especially suited for Dalton and not Brady, and a rookie WR isn't a sure thing.  Never mind that Belicheat has been incredibly poor at drafting WRs.  And all of this assumes the Bengals would trade Dalton for Thuney and want to pay Thuney $15M/year. 

 

 

 

he does seem to draft def players better kinda like our gm.the bengals do spend to the cap or close so it's not a crazy idea. it's all speculation

[Doc]

Just now, aristocrat said:

he does seem to draft def players better kinda like our gm.the bengals do spend to the cap or close so it's not a crazy idea. it's all speculation

 

Yup.  That's why I was glad the Bills traded for Diggs rather than trying to draft a WR.  But Belicheat has been terrible at it.  The only drafted WRs of note over his 20 years in Cheaterland are Deion Branch and Edelman.

[/dev/null]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

 

this was rumored a few days ago. they have to do that. i wonder if the bengals would trade them dalton for him?

 

Facing Andy Dalton twice a year.  That would be great news for us.  Bad news for the Steelers and Ravens

[CommonCents]

3 hours ago, BBillsWestCoast said:

How can the New England Patriot's recover from Gronkowski's dead cap? I believe it is $10 Million. They should be $8 Million under the cap;https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/

 

They will have to cut 1-2 Vet's and only CB J. Johnson is worth cutting... Restructure... and no free agents. They have to draft for need (LBs/OLine/TE/DT). I hope other teams steal everyone!

 

I see them trying to draft Baun or Kmet in round 2. I would love to take either one before they do.

They have a 2nd round pick?

[Phil The Thrill]

3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Trading Joe Thuney might be something they may have to do.

Yeah they don’t have the $14M to resign him play up their draft picks.  The only move would be to release/trade some other vets.

 

Also this could be part of the reason why they haven’t made a move at QB

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Yup.  That's why I was glad the Bills traded for Diggs rather than trying to draft a WR.  But Belicheat has been terrible at it.  The only drafted WRs of note over his 20 years in Cheaterland are Deion Branch and Edelman.

Branch is not great on his own.  Brady made him good

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yup and his play has fallen off as a result. 

 

Personally I think they keep him around as insurance and as a mentor for Burrow.

 

There is no way Dalton is mentoring Burrow. None. He is either there because with no camp to bring Burrow along they decide to sit him and Dalton plays. Or Dalton moves on. He ain't sitting there as a backup and mentor when there are starting jobs that would be open to him. And there is no way a team as cheap as the Bengals are paying a guy $16m to sit as a backup either.  

52 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Yeah they don’t have the $14M to resign him play up their draft picks.  The only move would be to release/trade some other vets.

 

Also this could be part of the reason why they haven’t made a move at QB

Branch is not great on his own.  Brady made him good

 

The Pats can re-do some deals and kick the can if they want to. This isn't a long term cap health issue. It is a one year crunch caused partly by a load of dead money (nearly $30m to guys not on the team). There are some options. I think they will make some moves once they see how the draft shakes out. 

[KD in CA]

3 hours ago, eball said:

Pat who?

 

I didn't realize he had front office responsibilities.....

 

[Rampage]

57 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Yeah they don’t have the $14M to resign him play up their draft picks.  The only move would be to release/trade some other vets.

 

Also this could be part of the reason why they haven’t made a move at QB

Branch is not great on his own.  Brady made him good

Branch was a solid receiver with the Seahawks, he wasn't a JAG but any means.

[TroutDog]

This is something I brought up in another thread, pre-trade. The $10m DID hit their books albeit for only a second. They knew this was a possibility thus had a plan to get rid of it. 
 

Between TB’s dead cap hit and if Gronk came out of retirement, it was untenable. Thus the immediate trade. Has been discussed ad nauseum on sports radio. 
 

Both Gronk and TB had their way as there was no other way for the Pats*** financially. 

[MAJBobby]

5 hours ago, BBillsWestCoast said:

How can the New England Patriot's recover from Gronkowski's dead cap? I believe it is $10 Million. They should be $8 Million under the cap;https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/

 

They will have to cut 1-2 Vet's and only CB J. Johnson is worth cutting... Restructure... and no free agents. They have to draft for need (LBs/OLine/TE/DT). I hope other teams steal everyone!

 

I see them trying to draft Baun or Kmet in round 2. I would love to take either one before they do.

there isn’t any dead cap on Gronk I don’t believe. He retired last year so the dead cap would have been in 2019