2 QBs that are former #1 overall picks and the Patriots don’t have a QB. Hmm.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Don Otreply said:

 Their are a bunch of closet Brady and Belly fans here by the looks of some of these posts... shameful at best...

 

Go Bills!!!

 

My fandom of Bill isn't even closeted. I pretty much love him. As someone who has coached semi-pro sport myself my respect and admiration for Bill Belichick is off the charts.

 

Brady is much easier to hate. 

[Doc]

22 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I’m sorry.  You knew Brady was going to be a HOF’er after his rookie season??  That’s amazing man!  Seriously!

 

I suspect you’re in the wrong line of work if you predicted his career trajectory after his rookie season where he was 1/3 for 6 yards.

 

No, I didn't know.  Neither did the Cheaters.  Otherwise they wouldn't have given Bledsoe a 10-year extension after that season/prior to the 2001 season.

 

The point is, you can't use one of the most rare examples in the history of the NFL and say "it could happen again."  Just like I wouldn't say "why did the Bills trade for Diggs?  They drafted a HOF'er in Andre Reed in the 4th round in 1985."

[Prospector]

BB doesn’t use jack@ss QBs that want to promote their brand or act like high school attention whor3s to run his offense. He uses a smart, mature, QB that makes sound decisions. Brady was that ten fold. Cam and Jameis are the exact opposite. I doubt they have the maturity level of a middle schooler... and that is a slight against middle schoolers. 

[Don Otreply]

24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

My fandom of Bill isn't even closeted. I pretty much love him. As someone who has coached semi-pro sport myself my respect and admiration for Bill Belichick is off the charts.

 

Brady is much easier to hate. 

Any individual associated with that organization is tainted, and not worthy of admiration. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Don Otreply

[Johnny Hammersticks]

20 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

No, I didn't know.  Neither did the Cheaters.  Otherwise they wouldn't have given Bledsoe a 10-year extension after that season/prior to the 2001 season.

 

The point is, you can't use one of the most rare examples in the history of the NFL and say "it could happen again."  Just like I wouldn't say "why did the Bills trade for Diggs?  They drafted a HOF'er in Andre Reed in the 4th round in 1985."

 

I never once stated that Jarrett Stidham is or was ever going to be as good as Tom Brady, dude!!!!!!!  

 

I’m merely posted that I suspect that the Patriots are content going into the season with Stedham, Hoyer and a draft pick. Go back and read all of my posts in this thread again, do some drawings or a story map to aid your comprehension, and then go kick rocks.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I never once stated that Jarrett Stidham is or was ever going to be as good as Tom Brady, dude!!!!!!!  

 

I’m merely posted that I suspect that the Patriots are content going into the season with Stedham, Hoyer and a draft pick. Go back and read all of my posts in this thread again, do some drawings or a story map to aid your comprehension, and then go kick rocks.

 

Don't get your panties in a bunch because YOU brought up Brady's rookie season when I mentioned Stidham's.  You should have just stuck to that last part. 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

1 hour ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I actually think they are content with Jarrett Stidham as their starter and Hoyer as the backup.  I also think they’ll draft a QB to develop/compete.

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

With a rookie year stat-line of 2 for 4 for 14 yards, no TDs and a pick-six, what's not to love?

 

1 hour ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

And Tom Brady was 1/3 for 6 yards during his entire rookie season.  What’s your point?  Unknown commodity.  

 

It has been reported that the Patriots have been encouraged about what they have seen from Stidham in practice.  I don’t know man...

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Seriously?  You're comparing him to Brady?

 

1 hour ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

I’m sorry.  You knew Brady was going to be a HOF’er after his rookie season??  That’s amazing man!  Seriously!

 

I suspect you’re in the wrong line of work if you predicted his career trajectory after his rookie season where he was 1/3 for 6 yards.

 

34 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

No, I didn't know.  Neither did the Cheaters.  Otherwise they wouldn't have given Bledsoe a 10-year extension after that season/prior to the 2001 season.

 

The point is, you can't use one of the most rare examples in the history of the NFL and say "it could happen again."  Just like I wouldn't say "why did the Bills trade for Diggs?  They drafted a HOF'er in Andre Reed in the 4th round in 1985."

 

6 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

I never once stated that Jarrett Stidham is or was ever going to be as good as Tom Brady, dude!!!!!!!  

 

I’m merely posted that I suspect that the Patriots are content going into the season with Stedham, Hoyer and a draft pick. Go back and read all of my posts in this thread again, do some drawings or a story map to aid your comprehension, and then go kick rocks.

 

Our “exchange” in time order.  I only used Tom Brady as an example because, like Jarrett, he played sparingly behind an established QB and did not put up “encouraging” statistics.  Both were/are relatively unknown commodities at those respective points in their careers.

 

Does that make sense to you now?  Do you breathe through your mouth a lot?

[Prospector]

12 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

I never once stated that Jarrett Stidham is or was ever going to be as good as Tom Brady, dude!!!!!!!  

 

I’m merely posted that I suspect that the Patriots are content going into the season with Stedham, Hoyer and a draft pick. Go back and read all of my posts in this thread again, do some drawings or a story map to aid your comprehension, and then go kick rocks.

Mr. Balloon hands

Edited April 8, 2020 by WorstTEever81

[Johnny Hammersticks]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's not my fault you made a stupid comparison and then got all uppity when I called you on it.  Dumbass.

 

You don’t really believe that because I know you as a poster here and you’re not that dumb.  I’m done with you.  

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

You don’t really believe that because I know you as a poster here and you’re not that dumb.  I’m done with you.  

 

Likewise.

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

My money is on the Pats ending up with Eason or Fromm. 

I’d laugh.  Fromm was a game manager in college and has Matt Barkley arm strength.  Eason has physical tools but apparently is a tool. 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

Belichick wants a guy to come in and run the system. The system is short to intermediate precise throws and taking care of the football. Don't take risks, just take what the defense gives you. Don't try to do too much.

 

Does that sound anything like Newton or Winston? They are two square pegs that do not fit into the round hole of NE's offense.

In 2018, before he hurt his shoulder, Cam was hitting 67% of his passes and had a 22 td to 7 int ratio (along with 4 rushing tds).  Obviously health is a huge issue but I’d be worried if they got Newton.  He literally had a bunch of scrubs most of his time in Carolina besides Olsen.  And Winston, who just had eye surgery, is a moron but he is also as talented as any passer in the nfl.  Those two guys upsides scare me as a Bills fan if they went to NE.  
 

Personally, the funniest move would be for NE to sign Kaepernick and have everyone’s head explode. ?

2 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

And Tom Brady was 1/3 for 6 yards during his entire rookie season.  What’s your point?  Unknown commodity.  

 

It has been reported that the Patriots have been encouraged about what they have seen from Stidham in practice.  I don’t know man...

I know he was in a weird offense in college but I’d be stocked if Stidham turns into a starting level qb.   He was hardly special in college and he’s just hyped because the Pats took him.

[RiotAct]

4 hours ago, uticaclub said:

No matter who Belichick has at QB, I would still pick them to win the division. Cam would be our worse case scenario if can return to his MVP. 

yep.  Still insta-loss x2 for the Bills until they can (finally) prove otherwise

[H2o]

10 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’d laugh.  Fromm was a game manager in college and has Matt Barkley arm strength.  Eason has physical tools but apparently is a tool. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

My fandom of Bill isn't even closeted. I pretty much love him. As someone who has coached semi-pro sport myself my respect and admiration for Bill Belichick is off the charts.

 

Brady is much easier to hate. 

Totally And respectfully disagree Gunner.  Brady maybe a d bag but I have a ton more respect for him.  He made himself the GOAt from being a 6th rounder who lost his job in college (bs reason too).  Belichick gets all this credit but has never won anything as a head coach without him (that Cassell season was a team coming off a 18-1* season).  And besides this year, how many times have the Pats had great defenses? I would bet good money on the Bucs having a better season than the Pats.  I think 9 wins is going to win the AFC East this year.

2 minutes ago, H2o said:

This guy is a rapper now haha.

[mjt328]

Both are terrible fits for the New England offense.

 

Cam Newton has always been most effective as a dual-threat, thanks to his running ability and big arm.  His strength has never been accuracy, patience or dissecting defensive schemes.  Pretty much the complete opposite of Tom Brady.  This is without starting to consider the way injuries have taken a toll.  There is a reason that most people believe Cam is done as a starting/franchise QB in this league.

 

Jameis Winston is purely a pocket-passer, but he is totally reckless with turnovers.  If Belichick is counting on the defense to carry the Patriots this year, the absolute last thing he needs is a guy who throws 3-4 interceptions a game.  After 5 years in the league, I doubt this is something coaches can still fix.  And with the current WR weapons the Patriots have, I doubt Winston will be able to duplicate the touchdowns he threw with Mike Evans and Chris Godwin.

 

As mentioned, the other problem is cap space.  The Patriots are currently at about $1.1 million, which isn't even enough to sign their draft picks.

I can't see either Newton or Winston agreeing to play for less than $15 million per year, which would put them at the bottom of the NFL in starting QBs - not counting the guys still on rookie deals.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Totally And respectfully disagree Gunner.  Brady maybe a d bag but I have a ton more respect for him.  He made himself the GOAt from being a 6th rounder who lost his job in college (bs reason too).  Belichick gets all this credit but has never won anything as a head coach without him (that Cassell season was a team coming off a 18-1* season).  And besides this year, how many times have the Pats had great defenses? I would bet good money on the Bucs having a better season than the Pats.  I think 9 wins is going to win the AFC East this year.

This guy is a rapper now haha.

 

Brady is the GOAT. But even so.... winning so consistently cannot be done without great coaching. 

[TigerJ]

Their skill sets are not similar besides both being able to throw the ball.  Cap room is a major issue for New England as has been stated.   I expect Belichick to draft a QB and maybe keep an older veteran on the roster to back up Stidham.

[bigK14094]

Cam has made a lot of money.  Without an offer he likes, he just might sit out a year.  He got pretty beat up over the years....maybe like Megatron in Detroit...time to get out.  Winston has the arm, not the head I am guessing based on 30 ints.  He is going to have to take backup money and try to win a job......I read Winston has matured, but, he had a lot of that to do........he does have fire in the belly though, somebody will take a shot with him imho.  Cam I am not so sure.

[C.Biscuit97]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Brady is the GOAT. But even so.... winning so consistently cannot be done without great coaching. 

I’m totally sure about Bill Walsh did nothing without Montana.  McCarthy won a lot of games but imo, he should have won SBs with Rodgers.  People questioned Reid as a coach (stupid B word still).  Think about all the coaches Manning elevated.  Then when he got a potential all time great qb, he won a Sb.

 

personally, I think coaching is very overrated in the nfl.  If Allen is good, McDermott will be good.  Belichick is a great coach but he has a losing record until Brady.  I think a top 5 Qb matters a ton more than a coach.  Imo, the best coach and he never gets credit for it is Joe Gibbs.  3 SBs with 3 different qbs.  A lot different than riding the same qb to multiple wins. JMO.

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’m totally sure about Bill Walsh did nothing without Montana.  McCarthy won a lot of games but imo, he should have won SBs with Rodgers.  People questioned Reid as a coach (stupid B word still).  Think about all the coaches Manning elevated.  Then when he got a potential all time great qb, he won a Sb.

 

personally, I think coaching is very overrated in the nfl.  If Allen is good, McDermott will be good.  Belichick is a great coach but he has a losing record until Brady.  I think a top 5 Qb matters a ton more than a coach.  Imo, the best coach and he never gets credit for it is Joe Gibbs.  3 SBs with 3 different qbs.  A lot different than riding the same qb to multiple wins. JMO.

 

My point isn't that it is more Belichick than Brady. My point is I like Belichick (it is the coach in me) and I find it easier to dislike Brady. 

 

But whatever talent you have the hardest thing in coaching is being a serial winner. Motivating players who have had success to go again and reload and go again every year is really ***** difficult. I tried it and failed. I think it is massively underrated. 

[StHustle]

6 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Newton and Winston, similar abilities and both available.

Similar abilities how?

[C.Biscuit97]

37 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

My point isn't that it is more Belichick than Brady. My point is I like Belichick (it is the coach in me) and I find it easier to dislike Brady. 

 

But whatever talent you have the hardest thing in coaching is being a serial winner. Motivating players who have had success to go again and reload and go again every year is really ***** difficult. I tried it and failed. I think it is massively underrated. 

But it’s a million times easier when you have the greatest qb ever who is also (while a d bag) as motivated as any Athlete who has ever played.  Brady sets the tone for all the players to follow. 

27 minutes ago, StHustle said:

Similar abilities how?

Yeah, that statement makes no sense.  It’s really based on nothing. 

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But it’s a million times easier when you have the greatest qb ever who is also (while a d bag) as motivated as any Athlete who has ever played.  Brady sets the tone for all the players to follow.

 

Yea I do think that underplays coaching. 

[Tipster19]

If Belichick gets either QB then I would suspect him to go after a TE or 2. If it were Winston I wonder if ole Billy Boy would go after OJ Howard. 2 other names that wouldn’t surprise me would be David Njoku and Evan Engram. This Covid 19 is slowing everything down but as soon as there is a let up just watch Belichick make some moves.

[freddyjj]

33 minutes ago, Tipster19 said:

If Belichick gets either QB then I would suspect him to go after a TE or 2. If it were Winston I wonder if ole Billy Boy would go after OJ Howard. 2 other names that wouldn’t surprise me would be David Njoku and Evan Engram. This Covid 19 is slowing everything down but as soon as there is a let up just watch Belichick make some moves.

if BB can cheat the salary cap rules like he does every NFL rule each game week then I say yes your fairy tales can come true,

[Matt_In_NH]

8 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

He doesn’t have any cap room to sign either QB. 

They could create some and they could get one at a bargain one year deal at some point.   Neither have a lot of options.  

[hondo in seattle]

Folks say Stidham was miscast in the Auburn offense.  True or not, he won't be asked to play outside himself with the Pats.  Belichick and McDaniels will build the offense around Stiddy's strengths while avoiding his weaknesses.  I think he'll be the starter and I think the Pats will put up points.  

 

5 hours ago, Doc said:

 

With a rookie year stat-line of 2 for 4 for 14 yards, no TDs and a pick-six, what's not to love?

 

That's a really small sample size and tells us nothing.  Word out of Boston is that Stiddy looked solid in practice last year and understands Belichick's concepts.  

[Doc]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

Folks say Stidham was miscast in the Auburn offense.  True or not, he won't be asked to play outside himself with the Pats.  Belichick and McDaniels will build the offense around Stiddy's strengths while avoiding his weaknesses.  I think he'll be the starter and I think the Pats will put up points.  

 

 

That's a really small sample size and tells us nothing.  Word out of Boston is that Stiddy looked solid in practice last year and understands Belichick's concepts.  

 

Anything is possible.  I just don't see him as a good NFL QB and they still have deficiencies at WR.

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Anything is possible.  I just don't see him as a good NFL QB and they still have deficiencies at WR.

 

I agree totally with this. 

[Doc]

And TE.

[djp14150]

8 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Don’t get comfortable, here comes Belichick! Nothing is worse than false confidence/security. If anyone thinks that Belichick is just gonna roll over than they got another thing coming. Newton and Winston, similar abilities and both available.  I’m not buying the Stidham talk, expect Belichick to reinvent that offense. Nobody loves veterans that want to prove something more than Belichick.

Black qbs in heavily racist Boston...get the popcorn

[Orlando Tim]

6 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Winston to Pats would be our best case scenario.

 

Newton would be our worst case.

 

I agree with Winston but disagree with Newton- he will never be great again because he can not run like he used to run and therefore is only a mediocre QB.

[Phil The Thrill]

8 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Don’t get comfortable, here comes Belichick! Nothing is worse than false confidence/security. If anyone thinks that Belichick is just gonna roll over than they got another thing coming. Newton and Winston, similar abilities and both available.  I’m not buying the Stidham talk, expect Belichick to reinvent that offense. Nobody loves veterans that want to prove something more than Belichick.

Here’s a crazy and somewhat scary idea.  New England was rumoured to be interested in Josh Rosen in 2018.  Some people had mocked them making a big move to trade up into the Top 5 and draft him.  
 

Would Belichick consider trading a 4th round (or less) to Miami to see if Rosen has anything left?  If he doesn’t, he always has Stidham.  

[zonabb]

My money's on Belichek/Pats with at least 10 wins and Stidham being good. This is a good read, especially about him being in the wrong system at Auburn. He's basically what you expect (and I love) from a Belichek drafted player.... hard worker, real smart, team first... qualitative strengths first. How many first rounder QBs hit the quantitative stuff and everyoen falls in love with the TDs, running yards, height, hand width, college wins, etc. And how many of them, we come to find out, were lazy, rather dumb, and selfish and the physical tools and numbers couldn't help them?

 

Cry in your beer, I don't think this team falls of the face of the AFC East with BB and McDaniels. BB is a warlock and I'd be stunned if they didn't win the division. 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2885053-replacing-tom-brady

[Doc]

Also the Cheaters have the hardest schedule in the NFL and that's including playing the Jets and Dols twice, who always gave them problems.

[Punching Bag]

I can not see them signing starting QBs who cannot keep their mouths shut and not due interviews and books post career about their cheating.

 

Tommy boy won't talk about it post career because it reflect as badly as him as those Chicago White Sox baseball players banned from Hall of Fame.

[IgotBILLStopay]

NE can pretty easily create cap room. Hightower, Cannon, Sanu, Butler all have low deadcaps. Oh, and Thuney is a trade candidate - Since they didnt pay Brady 25 mill - they can very quickly move to the top 3 in terms of cap space available. And it is not that there are readymade starting jobs available for Cam and Jameis. They could do a lot worse than sign up with Belichick for a huge NE discount.

 

nice post OP

8 hours ago, MJS said:

Belichick wants a guy to come in and run the system. The system is short to intermediate precise throws and taking care of the football. Don't take risks, just take what the defense gives you. Don't try to do too much.

 

Does that sound anything like Newton or Winston? They are two square pegs that do not fit into the round hole of NE's offense.

But Belichick is the most adaptible guy out there - the guy has yoyoed between a 3-4 and a 4-3 effortlessly. I dont see Jameis and Cam style being different from Brady's as a constraint.

 

 

The only thing giving me pause about the Pats' chances this season is that I have a sneaky suspicion, they might Tank for Trevor. We will know for sure  if Belichick trades this year's draft capital / Thuney for next year's draft capital.

Edited April 9, 2020 by IgotBILLStopay

[BobChalmers]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

In what way are Cam and Winston similar abilities?

 

They are nothing alike.

 

They're black, obviously.  

 

Yeah - just a quick check-in for folks who don't know - Jameis Winston is NOT a running QB - NEVER has been.  Not at FSU, not now.  He's also not nearly as big as Cam.

 

Now I suppose if the OP meant "they have similar abilities" in that they both currently play as if they had DIS-abilities, he may be on to something.

 

I wouldn't sign either for free.  Maybe, just maybe Winston on the off-chance his Lasik helps with his INTs.

 

Cam is done.  He's broken and he's crazy - he should find a home near his WR spirit-animal AB and toss footballs with him.

 

 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

NE can pretty easily create cap room. Hightower, Cannon, Sanu, Butler all have low deadcaps. Oh, and Thuney is a trade candidate - Since they didnt pay Brady 25 mill - they can very quickly move to the top 3 in terms of cap space available. And it is not that there are readymade starting jobs available for Cam and Jameis. They could do a lot worse than sign up with Belichick for a huge NE discount.

 

nice post OP

But Belichick is the most adaptible guy out there - the guy has yoyoed between a 3-4 and a 4-3 effortlessly. I dont see Jameis and Cam style being different from Brady's as a constraint.

 

Except they won't have nearly the same weapons on offense that they did when they were putting up yards and points.