Update: Dak may be franchised (offered $33M) and Cooper transition tagged = at min $43M cap hit

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

But notice when he’s handing the ball off to Zeke more his INT rate is low. This year they had him throwing too much and his INT rate went higher. He threw 11 this year while he usually only throws 4-5 maybe 6 Max the last couple of years. My point is he’s not worth 45 million a year and Jones is a fool to even offer him this type of money. He’s a top 10-15 QB not top 5. Stats don’t mean squat if you can’t even get your team to the playoffs 

 

Well Dak has got his team to the playoffs as division champs twice in his 4 years and he has a playoff win. It is not as though he hasn't helped his team have success. Romo only won 3 division titles in his 9 seasons, Dak has 2 in 4. 

 

As for he is a 10-15 QB, I agree. I just said he had a top 5 or 6 season last year. The point about money is where people are getting this all wrong. If we work on the basis that at any one time about half the NFL has QBs it is genuinely happy with and at least 2 or 3 of them (presently maybe more) are guys still playing on rookie deals and one or two of them are old guys at the end ring chasing... that means a top 16 QB who isn't in either of those categories will be top 10 salary and every new deal goes in at the top of the top 10 and then slides down as new deals are done each spring. It is the league and the way it works. I swear Bills fans are going to get an almighty shock when it comes to extending Josh because even if he shows only a small performance jump in 2020 on 2019 he is going to get $35m+ per year.  

Edited March 9, 2020 by GunnerBill

[ngbills]

If Allen was a free agent what do you pay him? Some team may be willing to give Allen $30M per...

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Right now today you would rank Josh above Dak? That is crazy. Absolutely fine to say you still think his ceiling is higher, he has more natural talent and he can take another jump this year then it might be a conversation.  But as of right now you rank him higher? Nah sorry. 

 

As for the QB pay point.... other than Brees and Brady who are ring chasing at the tail end of their careers and then the guys who are still on rookie deals who is paid less than Kirk Cousins that you think should be getting more than him? 

 

1.  Yes, I would take JA above Dak.    Does anyone think Dak gets us to the playoffs last year?  

 

2.  I never said guys on the tail end of a rookie deal should be getting more than Cousins.  I'm saying Cousins is overpaid, and it's killing Minn's cap situation.  

 

 

[H2o]

35 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I’m not paying Dal $34m a year personally.  Nor am I paying Cooper that either.  Dak isn’t a top 5 QB, he’s not special IMO.  Cooper isn’t even a top 10 WR.  He’s good for a few big games with majority being mediocre or worse.  
 

Again neither is bad, and in fact would say both are even pretty good.  I’m just saying I’m not gonna pay this duo a cap choking amount of money as if they were top 3 players at their positions.  I don’t see them getting Dallas over the top.  It’s one thing to pay one, but both is a bit too rich for me.   

I wouldn't want to pay them that either, but it is the new age of contracts in the NFL with the ever ballooning salary cap. QB numbers are steadily going up. Cooper could easily get $15,000,000 or more from somewhere if Sammy could get $16,000,000 per as well. The fact is Dallas has spent A LOT of $$$ these last couple of seasons on Lawrence, Elliott, Smith, and their OL. This was always a problem they were going to run into. 

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

1.  Yes, I would take JA above Dak.    Does anyone think Dak gets us to the playoffs last year?  

 

2.  I never said guys on the tail end of a rookie deal should be getting more than Cousins.  I'm saying Cousins is overpaid, and it's killing Minn's cap situation.  

 

 

 

On 1 - yes, I do. 

 

On 2 - in which case he is not overpaid. That is basic supply and demand economics. 

[Mark Vader]

20 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

The Cowboys will remain mediocre for the next few years.

And will still get 6 prime time games a year.

[H2o]

1 minute ago, Mark Vader said:

And will still get 6 prime time games a year.

And be talked about constantly by the bobble-heads on TV because they are "America's Team" 

[Matt_In_NH]

23 hours ago, njbuff said:

Patrick Mahomes is going to make 60 mill a year at this rate.

I would sign  him for that in a heartbeat

[teef]

44 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I think so.  You have to eat gabagool every day too.

this ***** is racist.

[njbuff]

8 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

And will still get 6 prime time games a year.

 

That's it.

 

?

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Do I still get paid?

 

Then yes

 

Justifiable, but you always kind of hope people won't adhere to a "screw everybody else as long as I get mine" philosophy.

[DCOrange]

Will be interesting to revisit this thread in a few years when Allen is demanding this kind of money. Hopefully Allen proves himself to be elite by then, but we'll see. As is, I'm not sure which way I would be leaning in terms of wanting to give him a big contract but obviously we have a few years to figure out what kind of player he's going to be.

1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

But notice when he’s handing the ball off to Zeke more his INT rate is low. This year they had him throwing too much and his INT rate went higher. He threw 11 this year while he usually only throws 4-5 maybe 6 Max the last couple of years. My point is he’s not worth 45 million a year and Jones is a fool to even offer him this type of money. He’s a top 10-15 QB not top 5. Stats don’t mean squat if you can’t even get your team to the playoffs. Also the only reason dak had a better year than zeke is because Garrett stopped running the ball and was relying on Prescott’s arm too much

Dak was playing at a near MVP level for most of the season lol. He tailed off a bit down the stretch but he had a top 5-10 QB season this past year. Doesn't necessarily mean he's actually a top 5-10 QB but he proved he can potentially play at that level.

 

47 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

1.  Yes, I would take JA above Dak.    Does anyone think Dak gets us to the playoffs last year?  

 

2.  I never said guys on the tail end of a rookie deal should be getting more than Cousins.  I'm saying Cousins is overpaid, and it's killing Minn's cap situation.  

 

 

Come on man. This is insanity.

Edited March 9, 2020 by DCOrange

[BuffaloBills1998]

3 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Dak was playing at a near MVP level for most of the season lol. He tailed off a bit down the stretch but he had a top 5-10 QB season this past year. Doesn't necessarily mean he's actually a top 5-10 QB but he proved he can potentially play at that level.

Come on man. This is insanity.

Again what did his near MVP season get him and his team this year? Stats don’t mean ***** if you can’t get your team to the next level. Stats are for losers

[Royale with Cheese]

19 minutes ago, teef said:

this ***** is racist.

 

[DCOrange]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Again what did his near MVP season get him and his team this year? Stats don’t mean ***** if you can’t get your team to the next level. Stats are for losers

You were talking about it as if he was worse last season because they went away from Zeke. Dak was awesome last season and in all likelihood, they will be in the playoff picture again next season largely because of him.

[BuffaloBills1998]

4 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

You were talking about it as if he was worse last season because they went away from Zeke. Dak was awesome last season and in all likelihood, they will be in the playoff picture again next season largely because of him.

I highly doubt they will be in the playoff picture next year since all of there cap will be tied to Dak, Zeke and Cooper. They don’t have the cap for free agency and probably will barely have enough cap for their rookies in the upcoming draft. And most of Dak’s good games last season  were against bad teams and all the games against good teams last season he was mediocre. Dallas has their own version of Kirk cousins. Puts up nice stats but can’t get your team to the next level. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by BuffaloBills1998

[BeastMaster]

6 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

You were talking about it as if he was worse last season because they went away from Zeke. Dak was awesome last season and in all likelihood, they will be in the playoff picture again next season largely because of him.

Awesome against Miami, Washington x2, Giants x2, Lions, and Eagles once. Their signature win was against the Rams who were not very good either.

 

This Dak was awesome crap is complete and utter nonsense. 

[Billl]

52 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

Justifiable, but you always kind of hope people won't adhere to a "screw everybody else as long as I get mine" philosophy.

If the cowboys couldn't put together a competitive roster when Dak was making $1,000,000 a year, what makes you think the difference between $33mm and $35mm is going to matter?

 

All the penny pinching armchair GMs on the internet would be the first to complain when Cooper Rush is slinging the old pigskin for America's team.

25 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

Awesome against Miami, Washington x2, Giants x2, Lions, and Eagles once. Their signature win was against the Rams who were not very good either.

 

This Dak was awesome crap is complete and utter nonsense. 

Unlike Josh who had all those signature wins against playoff teams, right?

[BeastMaster]

10 minutes ago, Billl said:

If the cowboys couldn't put together a competitive roster when Dak was making $1,000,000 a year, what makes you think the difference between $33mm and $35mm is going to matter?

 

All the penny pinching armchair GMs on the internet would be the first to complain when Cooper Rush is slinging the old pigskin for America's team.

Unlike Josh who had all those signature wins against playoff teams, right?

Now we're getting to the bottom of your agenda...

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

If the cowboys couldn't put together a competitive roster when Dak was making $1,000,000 a year, what makes you think the difference between $33mm and $35mm is going to matter?

 

All the penny pinching armchair GMs on the internet would be the first to complain when Cooper Rush is slinging the old pigskin for America's team.

Unlike Josh who had all those signature wins against playoff teams, right?

You know what would be great? If Josh and Dak went head to head on National TV so that we could see which one of them looked like a franchise QB and which one ?the bed.

 

Wait...

[BeastMaster]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

You know what would be great? If Josh and Dak went head to head on National TV so that we could see which one of them looked like a franchise QB and which one ?the bed.

 

Wait...

??

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Again what did his near MVP season get him and his team this year? Stats don’t mean ***** if you can’t get your team to the next level. Stats are for losers

 

And if that was Dak's whole career so far you might have a point. But he has won plenty. He is way above .500 and has two division titles and a playoff win from his first 4 years. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And if that was Dak's whole career so far you might have a point. But he has won plenty. He is way above .500 and has two division titles and a playoff win from his first 4 years. 

But my point is he had an even more talented roster to work with this season and he couldn’t make the playoffs. Especially this season when they relied on his arm more than zeke’s legs which goes to show he’s not the kind of QB who’s arm you can rely on. And in that case he isn’t the type of QB you pay the big bucks to. Mahomes is a franchise QB Prescott is not, you don’t pay a top 15 QB top 5 money

[Billl]

41 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

You know what would be great? If Josh and Dak went head to head on National TV so that we could see which one of them looked like a franchise QB and which one ?the bed.

 

Wait...

What happened in that game?  Did Allen throw for 355 yards and 2 TDs, or was that Dak?

1 minute ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

But my point is he had an even more talented roster to work with this season and he couldn’t make the playoffs. Especially this season when they relied on his arm more than zeke’s legs which goes to show he’s not the kind of QB who’s arm you can rely on. And in that case he isn’t the type of QB you pay the big bucks to. Mahomes is a franchise QB Prescott is not, you don’t pay a top 15 QB top 5 money

Dallas scored 120 more points than Buffalo.  I guess you think Dak should have played better defense.

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

What happened in that game?  Did Allen throw for 355 yards and 2 TDs, or was that Dak?

Really?  Oh boy...

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

What happened in that game?  Did Allen throw for 355 yards and 2 TDs, or was that Dak?

What happened in that game? Let’s see: the less experienced QB, with a far less talented supporting cast, went on the road and scored 2 TDs without turning the ball over and gave his team a 19-point lead.

 

Meanwhile, the more experienced QB—with a much better supporting cast, put together one solid drive before crumbling, turning the ball over twice and putting his team in a 19-point deficit at home. But at least he piled up garbage yards and a score so that less-educated fans can claim that he somehow outplayed the guy that was clearly and obviously better that day.

[BuffaloBills1998]

8 minutes ago, Billl said:

What happened in that game?  Did Allen throw for 355 yards and 2 TDs, or was that Dak?

Dallas scored 120 more points than Buffalo.  I guess you think Dak should have played better defense.

He put up numbers against bad teams this season and struggled against the good ones. He’s not consistent. Dallas actually had a pretty good Defense until the last couple games. The Game they had against us  is a prime example why you shouldn’t shell out the big bucks to Prescott. He’s overrating himself to get a big pay day. Watch after they pay him and he doesn’t live up to his contract 

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

But my point is he had an even more talented roster to work with this season and he couldn’t make the playoffs. Especially this season when they relied on his arm more than zeke’s legs which goes to show he’s not the kind of QB who’s arm you can rely on. And in that case he isn’t the type of QB you pay the big bucks to. Mahomes is a franchise QB Prescott is not, you don’t pay a top 15 QB top 5 money

 

Except you do. If you don't pay a top 15 QB top 5 money you can't sign him. Because someone will and within 3 year he won't be getting top 5 money and will still be producing top 15 Quarterbacking while you are looking for a replacement. And their failure to make the playoffs this year can not be laid mainly at Dak's door. It really can't. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Isn't the more pertinent question, who will be better next year and going forward? Josh or Dak? That to me is where the rubber meets the road and what GMs and coaches get paid the big bucks to figure out. If the question is, who has done more to this point? Well isn't Tom Brady always going to be the answer. The uncertainty of looking into the future is what makes people uncomfortable because it involves more than who had the best counting stats. It involves watching film, looking at pertinent analytics, health and luck, and a million other things. Anyone can line up a bunch of stats, with no skin in the game, and say of course so and so is better because he's done more. I care about going forward.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Isn't the more pertinent question, who will be better next year and going forward? Josh or Dak? That to me is where the rubber meets the road and what GMs and coaches get paid the big bucks to figure out. If the question is, who has done more to this point? Well isn't Tom Brady always going to be the answer. The uncertainty of looking into the future is what makes people uncomfortable because it involves more than who had the best counting stats. It involves watching film, looking at pertinent analytics, health and luck, and a million other things. Anyone can line up a bunch of stats, with no skin in the game, and say of course so and so is better because he's done more. I care about going forward.

 

Why is that a pertinent question? Josh isn't an option for the Cowboys.... the question is will Dak be better than anyone they can draft at 17 or sign as a FA. I think the answer is overwhelmingly yes. 

[BringBackOrton]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Why is that a pertinent question? Josh isn't an option for the Cowboys.... the question is will Dak be better than anyone they can draft at 17 or sign as a FA. I think the answer is overwhelmingly yes. 

I think the folks who are hating on Dak have some kind of hang up that is Allen related. The two couldn’t be further from related.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Why is that a pertinent question? Josh isn't an option for the Cowboys.... the question is will Dak be better than anyone they can draft at 17 or sign as a FA. I think the answer is overwhelmingly yes. 

Oh come on you've been comparing Allen and Prescott and saying it was a clear cut decision based on what they'd done to this point. Who would you want next year, 3 years from and at what price?

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Oh come on you've been comparing Allen and Prescott and saying it was a clear cut decision based on what they'd done to this point. Who would you want next year, 3 years from and at what price?

 

If you think that is what I have been doing in this thread you really haven't been paying attention. I did point out Dak is more of a proven commodity than Josh but in the same breath said that Josh still has a higher ceiling.

 

The question in this thread is not about whether I or anyone else wants Josh or Dak because that is utterly irrelevant - it isn't a real choice. The question here is should the Cowboys pay Dak? And in my view they absolutely should. I think in a year or two years time we will be having the exact same conversation on Josh Allen and if he continues to progress then I will be arguing we should "overpay" him too by making him a top 3 salaried QB. 

[Alphadawg7]

22 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Somebody will pay him.  Then what's Dallas gonna do?  Who they gonna replace him with?

 

He's got "hand."

They could sign a solid FA like Teddy, Rivers, Tannehill, etc for less and for shorter then draft a QB.  This is one of the best off seasons ever to find a solid vet QB in FA.  

 

If they are gonna sign one, Dak makes the most sense given he’s a QB.  But still, he’s not the kind of player I want to break the bank for personally.  I’d rather let someone else over commit and find a QB in the draft while using a Vet FA to keep them competitive.  I mean they spent all that money on Zeke, find a guy who can be solid and doesn’t need to be great at QB while focusing the offense around Zeke.  Then draft someone like Eason or Love this year to groom.  
 

But I get it, this is what happens today.  Guys get over paid all the time.  But then you look at Beane whose being smart on his signings and managing the cap about as good as I’ve ever seen vs adding talent.  
 

And Dallas, well Jerry Jones, isn’t gonna wanna rebuild.  So I’m sure Dak stays a Cowboy.  But I don’t think he’s going to live up to the contract.

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[BringBackOrton]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If you think that is what I have been doing in this thread you really haven't been paying attention. I did point out Dak is more of a proven commodity than Josh but in the same breath said that Josh still has a higher ceiling.

 

The question in this thread is not about whether I or anyone else wants Josh or Dak because that is utterly irrelevant - it isn't a real choice. The question here is should the Cowboys pay Dak? And in my view they absolutely should. I think in a year or two years time we will be having the exact same conversation on Josh Allen and if he continues to progress then I will be arguing we should "overpay" him too by making him a top 3 salaried QB. 

It’s really simple. If Josh Allen was RoTY, was ~40-20 as a starter, went to the playoffs twice, had two double digit win seasons under center, and had a playoff win against a quality opponent by his fourth season, EVERYONE would want to pay him. And they’d be crazy to let him go and then try to draft some guy in the late first or second round to replace him.

 

That’s it. Case closed.

[auburnbillsbacker]

On 3/8/2020 at 5:26 PM, White Linen said:

This is what's wrong with the NFL.  Paying the highest salary because they're "next" but they're not the best at their position.  

The cap goes up every year.  This will always happen and its fine.  The players have a way to always be highest paid.  Sign 1 year deals and play well.  Besides Reavis they don't do that because they want the security  a long term deal provides.  Due to that, people will pass them by.

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

They could sign a solid FA like Teddy, Rivers, Tannehill, etc for less and for shorter then draft a QB.  This is one of the best off seasons ever to find a solid bet QB in FA.  

 

If they are gonna sign one, Dak makes the most sense given he’s a QB.  But still, he’s not the kind of player I want to break the bank for personally.  I’d rather let someone else over commit and find a QB in the draft while using a Vet FA to keep them competitive.  I mean they spent all that money on Zeke, find a guy who can be solid and doesn’t need to be great at QB while focusing the offense around Zeke.  Then draft someone like Eason or Love this year to groom.  
 

But I get it, this is what happens today.  Guys get over paid all the time.  But then you look at Beane whose being smart on his signings and managing the cap about as good as I’ve ever seen bs adding talent.  
 

And Dallas, well Jerry Jones, isn’t gonna wanna rebuild.  So I’m sure Dak stays a Cowboy.  But I don’t think he’s going to live up to the contract.

 

Really? So how does Dallas improve next year by signing a worse FA QB to big money and then also using a draft pick on another worse QB? What percentage of late first/second round QB’s ever win 10 games in a season, let alone twice? Or win a playoff game? Or throw 30 TDs? 

 

I thought BILLS FANS of all people would recognize just how difficult it is to find an above average starting QB in this league. This is crazy.

[Alphadawg7]

20 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Really? So how does Dallas improve next year by signing a worse FA QB to big money and then also using a draft pick on another worse QB? What percentage of late first/second round QB’s ever win 10 games in a season, let alone twice? Or win a playoff game? Or throw 30 TDs? 

 

I thought BILLS FANS of all people would recognize just how difficult it is to find an above average starting QB in this league. This is crazy.

Big money?  Those guys would be quite a bit cheaper and on shorter contracts.  
 

Sometimes you need to take a step back to improve.  Does anyone really think Dallas is gonna win a SB next year with this team that didn’t even make the playoffs in a weak division?  
 

So the solution is to throw big money at the same squad who won 8 games in one of the weakest divisions in football last year?  Once they pay Dak and Amari their cap is screwed with all the other big contracts they got.  
 

And how exactly is over paying Dak and Cooper “making them better” when under Daks BEST season as a pro statistically they won 8 games and missed the playoffs.  Not to mention one of Coopers best seasons too.  

Again...See:  Beane, Brandon for what to do next.

[BringBackOrton]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Big money?  Those guys would be quite a bit cheaper and on shorter contracts.  
 

Sometimes you need to take a step back to improve.  Does anyone really think Dallas is gonna win a SB next year with this team that didn’t even make the playoffs in a weak division?  
 

So the solution is to throw big money at the same squad who won 8 games in one of the weakest divisions in football last year?  Once they pay Dak and Amari their cap is screwed with all the other big contracts they got.  
 

And how exactly is over paying Dak and Cooper “making them better” when under Daks BEST season as a pro statistically they won 8 games and missed the playoffs.  Not to mention one of Coopers best seasons too.  

Again...See:  Beane, Brandon for what to do next.

Brandon Beane hasn’t even GMed a team that’s won a playoff game. His record since taking over as GM is WORSE than Dallas’ in the same time period. Dallas also has a better roster almost entirely across the board. Buffalo is a much better coached, but less talented roster.

 

I honestly do not fathom this discussion. They have a worse chance of winning the Super Bowl with Rivers than Dak so why sign him at all? Do you honestly think Jordan Love or Jake Fromm will be a better NFL QB than Dak Prescott? What is your end game strategy as the Dallas GM? Let your superstar OL, RB, WR, DE and LB groups age (and sign large contracts/leave the team) while you pay Rivers $15M, and hope you land a HoF QB outside of the top 15 in the draft while ignoring the statistical reality that makes that nearly impossible? Is that the secret plan? 

[BigBillsFan]

45 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

It’s really simple. If Josh Allen was RoTY, was ~40-20 as a starter, went to the playoffs twice, had two double digit win seasons under center, and had a playoff win against a quality opponent by his fourth season, EVERYONE would want to pay him. And they’d be crazy to let him go and then try to draft some guy in the late first or second round to replace him.

 

That’s it. Case closed.

 

You changed my perspective on signing him for the Cowboys. Your last few posts have been excellent.

 

My question is can you afford to pay him and expect he keeps up that production if he swallows that much cap? I mean he's worth starter money, but the most in the league? Something has to give (o-line or good WRs) and I don't know if I believe a player like him is worth it but I guess if you have to roll the dice he's the best the Cowboys have.