Star Lotulelei takes a pay cut

[ColoradoBills]

15 hours ago, GG said:

 

Nothing new, other than a straight cut in salary.  He gains by the salary guarantee which assures a roster spot in 2020, and another $2.5 million if he's injured for next year.   The bonuses appear to be unchanged from the original terms, where he can earn an additional $1.2 million in 2020.   If Bills have an adequate young guy in the wings, they will be incentivized to deactivate Star later in the season. 

 

Maybe,  but I think it's more likely Star will be let go next year.  Of course IF Star is performing well in a rotational role he may take

another "restructured" pay cut for 2021.

 

One thing for sure is Beane is making it clear that players need to perform even if they are friends with McDermott.

I see it as 1.75M is being transferred from Star (who's snap count has been diminished by his play) to someone else.

It's a good message to send.

[teef]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

 

I really enjoy the back and forth with fans who cite no statistics or any evidence to back up their opinion.  All emotion, no substance.  

 

From weeks 1-9, the 2018 Bills scored 96 points.  Total.  Had that pace continued they were pushing the worst offenses since the passing game opened up in 1978.  

 

In year 3 of the rebuild you cite they were in the bottom half of the league and often bottom quarter in offensive performance.  Yet, as I've long said, rebuilds in the modern NFL can be done quickly and efficiently.  Buffalo hasn't done that.  T 

 

I get that many fans are emotional, will absolutely not criticize this team, and turn their anger onto anyone who does.  It's been going on here ever since I joined and likely before that.

 

Unfortunately, emotions don't win prizes and neither does being a .500 team after 3 full seasons of rebuilding.  

 

Your non-sequitur about oranges was weak.  Try again Hondo.  

i just don't understand why some insist on stating this.  you bring up a .500 team in 3 seasons as if every season the bills had a even or losing record.  why not mention that this staff has made the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years?  something that no other staff has been able to accomplish in almost 2 decades.  i guess that doesn't fit an angry narrative.  

 

on top of that, you keep taking about fans being emotional and posting that way.  aren't you the one who makes up scenarios, usually leaning entirely towards the negative that are completely based on nothing other than misguided opinions?  you strike me as totally hypocritical.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

I really enjoy the back and forth with fans who cite no statistics or any evidence to back up their opinion.  All emotion, no substance.  

(....)

Unfortunately, emotions don't win prizes and neither does being a .500 team after 3 full seasons of rebuilding. 

 

If fans cite some statistic, but it's not particularly relevant or meaningful, does that make it substantive?

 

I don't get the point about "being a .500 team after 3 full seasons of rebuilding".  I mean, technically, we're not...we're just over 0.500 (0.520 to be exact)

The 49'ers on the other hand, have yet to reach 0.500 in 3 years under Shanahan.... they're 0.479 (to be exact)

 

What point are you trying to illustrate with this 0.500 team thing?

 

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

You want to sign Chris Jones to play EDGE in McDermott’s scheme? 
 

Are you sure you watch the NFL?

 

Maybe it's because I jokingly said hey let's sign him in this thread? I sure hope it isn't to play Edge

Edited February 12, 2020 by Reed83HOF

[Stank_Nasty]

6 minutes ago, teef said:

i just don't understand why some insist on stating this.  you bring up a .500 team in 3 seasons as if every season the bills had a even or losing record.  why not mention that this staff has made the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years?  something that no other staff has been able to accomplish in almost 2 decades.  i guess that doesn't fit an angry narrative.  

 

on top of that, you keep taking about fans being emotional and posting that way.  aren't you the one who makes up scenarios, usually leaning entirely towards the negative that are completely based on nothing other than misguided opinions?  you strike me as totally hypocritical.  

something that only 10 other, of the 32, NFL teams have done in that span.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

42 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

No, but opposing offensive players are obligated to say 'excuse me', as they blow past him....

I thought they had to pay him to be let through- Now it’s just be polite?

 

im not sure what to conclude from all of this ? 
 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Are you responding to me as if I'm advocating cutting him immediately?

 

 

 

Yes.

 

And btw when you are trying to point out what you consider "bad takes" by me from the past...........try to use takes where what I suggested wasn't done but still resulted in some kind of success.

 

You pointed out my wanting the Bills to pay David Harris back in 2015 to take over Rex defense..........he chose to stay with the Jets despite the Bills great interest in signing him.........it wasn't just a wild idea..............and the Bills defense fell to 26th in DVOA in 2015 because of assignment mistakes which Preston Brown was specifically scapegoated for.

 

So then they used a #2 and two #4's to draft Reggie Ragnuts in 2016!   More chaos on defense.

 

Double fail.

 

Their struggles at signal caller on D likely cost them a couple playoff trips and the defensive struggles caused a regime change.

 

So yeah that team would have been better off with Harris at $7.5M per for a couple seasons.    He was in decline and playing in a Todd Bowles defense where his experience was less important than his lack of foot speed. but he didn't fall off a cliff.

 

    

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Maybe it's because I jokingly said hey let's sign him in this thread? I sure hope it isn't to play Edge

I am a big Jones fan, and I really thought he was going to be their pick at 19. I have reason to believe that Doug liked him a lot.

[GG]

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yes.

 

Good, then you should have no problem showing where I'm arguing that Murphy should be cut right now.

 

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

And btw when you are trying to point out what you consider "bad takes" by me from the past...........try to use takes where what I suggested wasn't done but still resulted in some kind of success.

 

You pointed out my wanting the Bills to pay David Harris back in 2015 to take over Rex defense..........he chose to stay with the Jets despite the Bills great interest in signing him.........it wasn't just a wild idea..............and the Bills defense fell to 26th in DVOA in 2015 because of assignment mistakes which Preston Brown was specifically scapegoated for.

 

So then they used a #2 and two #4's to draft Reggie Ragnuts in 2016!   More chaos on defense.

 

Double fail.

 

Their struggles at signal caller on D likely cost them a couple playoff trips and the defensive struggles caused a regime change.

 

So yeah that team would have been better off with Harris at $7.5M per for a couple seasons.    He was in decline and playing in a Todd Bowles defense where his experience was less important than his lack of foot speed. but he didn't fall off a cliff.

 

    

 

Right on cue, the narrative shifts as if the Bills messed up by not signing Harris to an above-market deal, as opposed to the reality where Bills had no chance to sign Harris to an above-market deal because Jets extended him before he hit FA.

 

But thanks for confirming your usual doublespeak to always appear to be correct in retrospect. 

 

In your narrative, Bills would have been wise to overpay an aging vet to help a coach install his system, but were clearly stupid to overpay another aging vet to help another coach install his system.

[Reed83HOF]

18 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

I am a big Jones fan, and I really thought he was going to be their pick at 19. I have reason to believe that Doug liked him a lot.

He is phenomenal. I hate looking back at the drafts after Donahoe , but the 2016 is one of the worst ones and that is saying a lot. A whole draft for Rex 

[teef]

33 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

something that only 10 other, of the 32, NFL teams have done in that span.

absolutely!  is this team still in need for growth?  of course.  the personnel needs to improve, josh needs to get better, coaching needs to limit mishaps, etc.  

 

i'm not bashing anyone's opinion as their entitled to it, but saying this staff is .500 and leaving it at this just strikes me as being deceptive.  we were all prepared for a down second year with the hopes of being regular playoff contenders, and for now it seems to be worth it.  people are acting like the year occurred due to bad coaching.  i get it's not a big deal, but when it comes to this staff, some posters insist as describing them through an average win loss record with no context.  besides, as mentioned before, san fran has a worse record over the last 3 years than the bills.  not a great measure of success always.

 

if three years ago you told us the new staff would be .500, we'd be upset.  if three years ago you told us this staff would go to the playoffs 2 out of 3 times, i doubt anyone would have believed you.  two very different ways of describing how things have played out.  i personally think this team is in a far better position than it has been for a long time.  why continue to look it through the absolute worst lens possible?

 

i'm also loving hearing about how this team is one of the oldest in the league.  another fun way of presenting the info.

Edited February 12, 2020 by teef

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Good, then you should have no problem showing where I'm arguing that Murphy should be cut right now.

 

 

Right on cue, the narrative shifts as if the Bills messed up by not signing Harris to an above-market deal, as opposed to the reality where Bills had no chance to sign Harris to an above-market deal because Jets extended him before he hit FA.

 

But thanks for confirming your usual doublespeak to always appear to be correct in retrospect. 

 

In your narrative, Bills would have been wise to overpay an aging vet to help a coach install his system, but were clearly stupid to overpay another aging vet to help another coach install his system.

 

I'm aware that Harris signed before free agency.......never did I say otherwise...........Ryan lamented him choosing to re-up with NY.........they wanted Harris BADLY it was not a secret and only a fool would think that Harris wasn't made aware of that.

 

If McDermott were bringing in a signal caller type to run his defense or a significant difference maker that is a different story.    Hyde and Poyer were his scheme fit signings that offseason.

 

Now had Thomas Davis hit UFA I would have been all over that.......and the Panthers actually made sure to extend Davis in summer of 2017 in a move that seemed like it was done specifically to prevent McDermott from signing him in the 2018 offseason(McD was obviously not pleased with his LB situation either).

 

Lotulelei is just a generic DT1T with simple responsibilities........he's not calling the defense and he's so far been guaranteed $30M of his deal and has only played 2 seasons(of middling to poor football). 

[Don Otreply]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The point is that doesn't matter.

 

It's OK if they are the oldest team in the NFL next year..............you don't win by keeping young cores together for a long time anymore.

 

The Seahawks won the SB with the youngest team in the entire NFL.....young at all key positions etc.......3 years later they were in major re-tool.

 

A lot of Bills fans haven't paid attention to how good NFL teams are run for a couple decades now...........you try to make hay on your rookie QB contract.........and after that you have to adjust the plan.  

 

So what the Rams did was great.......perennial losing franchise that took a shot and actually got to a SB........they are on a fat vet QB contract now and have to adjust their plan the way the Seahawks have.

 

Hopefully the Bills actually contend for at least one SB win before Allen gets paid.........but the clock is ticking..........they can't be on the @Don Otreply"we need at least two more years to build" plan cuz in two more years they will be either in contract 2 of Josh Allen or on to a different QB.

 Bado, Bado, Bado,  reading comprehension my man, I will explain further, what I stated was it would take two more seasons to completely shed the old bills team reputation of being a bad team/ poorly run outfit, go ahead and have another read, why is it do you think so many elite player currently shun the bills, answer = team reputation, which is almost fixed,  but will take additional time to be fully corrected.  Contending for a super bowl, and fixing the teams reputation are not mutually exclusive, nuthin but luv, ???

 

Go Bills!!!

[Stank_Nasty]

11 minutes ago, teef said:

absolutely!  is this team still in need for growth?  of course.  the personnel needs to improve, josh needs to get better, coaching needs to limit mishaps, etc.  

 

i'm not bashing anyone's opinion as their entitled to it, but saying this staff is .500 and leaving it at this just strikes me as being deceptive.  we were all prepared for a down second year with the hopes of being regular playoff contenders, and for now it seems to be worth it.  people are acting like the year occurred due to bad coaching.  i get it's not a big deal, but when it comes to this staff, some posters insist as describing them through an average win loss record with no context.  besides, as mentioned before, san fran has a worse record over the last 3 years than the bills.  not a great measure of success always.

 

if three years ago you told us the new staff would be .500, we'd be upset.  if three years ago you told us this staff would go to the playoffs 2 out of 3 times, i doubt anyone would have believed you.  two very different ways of describing how things have played out.  i personally think this team is in a far better position than it has been for a long time.  why continue to look it through the absolute worst lens possible?

 

i'm also loving hearing about how this team is one of the oldest in the league.  another fun way of presenting the info.

its also slightly deceptive as well..... I just saw an article on ESPN weeks ago running down the average age of the year end STARTERS for each team and, if I remember correctly, buffalo had the 5th youngest group of starters by the years end.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

its also deceptive.... I just saw an article on ESPN weeks ago running down the average age of the year end STARTERS for each team and, if I remember correctly, buffalo had the 5th youngest group of starters by the years end.

exactly.  there's not one positional group that i'm nervous about "aging out".  i'm not sure what the desire is to frame it that way, but that's why i keep coming back!

[BADOLBILZ]

35 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

I am a big Jones fan, and I really thought he was going to be their pick at 19. I have reason to believe that Doug liked him a lot.

 

Jones had been mocked to the Bills and certainly made a lot more sense than Shaq.  

 

How Shaq was perceived as an OLB I still don't understand.

 

That draft was close to the worst case scenario of "drafting for need".

 

And most people on here LOVED it.

 

Shaq, Ragnuts and Adolphus...........all needs that should have been addressed in free agency or trade...........but they had been exceptionally wasteful with those cap dollars the year prior.

 

People who take the "we need one of those but we can get one later" approach to drafting look at the difference between Chris Jones and Adolphus Washington.    Had to strike while the iron was HOT with Shaq.

 

 

[Stank_Nasty]

1 minute ago, teef said:

exactly.  there's not one positional group that i'm nervous about "aging out".  i'm not sure what the desire is to frame it that way, but that's why i keep coming back!

No reason for optimism that I can see. Barely a .500 squad made up senior citizens over the last 3 years ?..... or as another character in this thread decided to say a couple pages back, "the bills have obviously been much more lucky than good over the last 3 years" ?

[GG]

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I'm aware that Harris signed before free agency.......never did I say otherwise...........Ryan lamented him choosing to re-up with NY.........they wanted Harris BADLY it was not a secret and only a fool would think that Harris wasn't made aware of that.

 

That's your position now, but wasn't at the time or years after that offseason.  You always framed it as a big mistake & miss on the Bills part.

 

14 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

If McDermott were bringing in a signal caller type to run his defense or a significant difference maker that is a different story.    Hyde and Poyer were his scheme fit signings that offseason.

 

Now had Thomas Davis hit UFA I would have been all over that.......and the Panthers actually made sure to extend Davis in summer of 2017 in a move that seemed like it was done specifically to prevent McDermott from signing him in the 2018 offseason(McD was obviously not pleased with his LB situation either).

 

Lotulelei is just a generic DT1T with simple responsibilities........he's not calling the defense and he's so far been guaranteed $30M of his deal and has only played 2 seasons(of middling to poor football). 

 

The Star signing was an admission of a mistake thinking the defense wouldn't miss Dareus in the middle.  That move was 100% "process" because it was clear that Dareus was not going to be onboard with what McD was building.  So, Beane plucked the best available Panther to help stabilize the D.   

 

Looking at this in retrospect, Bills got more overall value from Star in his two years for $26 million than they have from Murphy for $15 million, although both underperformed.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

20 minutes ago, teef said:

absolutely!  is this team still in need for growth?  of course.  the personnel needs to improve, josh needs to get better, coaching needs to limit mishaps, etc.  

 

i'm not bashing anyone's opinion as their entitled to it, but saying this staff is .500 and leaving it at this just strikes me as being deceptive.  we were all prepared for a down second year with the hopes of being regular playoff contenders, and for now it seems to be worth it.  people are acting like the year occurred due to bad coaching.  i get it's not a big deal, but when it comes to this staff, some posters insist as describing them through an average win loss record with no context.

 

if three years ago you told us the new staff would be .500, we'd be upset.  if three years ago you told us this staff would go to the playoffs 2 out of 3 times, i doubt anyone would have believed you.  two very different ways of describing how things have played out.  i personally think this team is in a far better position than it has been for a long time.  why continue to look it through the absolute worst lens possible?

 

 

Saying they are .500 and that certain pretty indicative metrics........like a huge negative point differential and a 30th ranked offense over 3 years.........suggest they are lucky to be .500............may disappoint you but it's there.

 

Yes as you said we'd be disappointed to know that the new regime took over a team and proceeded to be .500 over the next 3 seasons coming off two regimes that played nearly the same .500 level football.    

 

No I would not have been surprised by a 9-7 and 10-6 season over the next 3 years because the team they inherited was talented enough to have been in the playoffs in any of the prior 5 seasons going back to the last year of Chan Gailey.   

 

I mean if you are upset by the thought of .500 you are then surprised to be 9-7, 6-10 and 10-6?   That's a very short bridge to cross from where they were coming from.

 

These "we never expected to make the playoffs anytime soon" retro-active takes come from a place that surely was not TBD.

 

What it comes down to is that we want to PERCEIVE that something special is happening..........in reality it's been a very slow 7 year climb from Marrone's .500 teams to McD's "wildcard contention" level.  

 

[GoBills808]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

You're so right. And here's another:

 

Only cause this went over and over during reg season, but there is a fundamental lack of understanding about how the interior dline operates in McD's scheme

 

Lotulelei does a ton of stuff that not only doesn't show up on stat sheet but gets missed by almost every casual fan...shuffle and bridge to engage and free up another DT, downblock and open gap for LB control, lines up offset to play immediate double for twists/stunts...if the dline is the engine he's like the serpentine belt. Everything kind of rotates in conjunction w his work. Oliver is going to be the crankshaft that can do it all but he needs more experience. Phillips is like a turbo, super fun but nonessential.

[schoolhouserock]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Saying they are .500 and that certain pretty indicative metrics........like a huge negative point differential and a 30th ranked offense over 3 years.........suggest they are lucky to be .500............may disappoint you but it's there.

 

Yes as you said we'd be disappointed to know that the new regime took over a team and proceeded to be .500 over the next 3 seasons coming off two regimes that played nearly the same .500 level football.    

 

No I would not have been surprised by a 9-7 and 10-6 season over the next 3 years because the team they inherited was talented enough to have been in the playoffs in any of the prior 5 seasons going back to the last year of Chan Gailey.   

 

I mean if you are upset by the thought of .500 you are then surprised to be 9-7, 6-10 and 10-6?   That's a very short bridge to cross from where they were coming from.

 

These "we never expected to make the playoffs anytime soon" retro-active takes come from a place that surely was not TBD.

 

What it comes down to is that we want to PERCEIVE that something special is happening..........in reality it's been a very slow 7 year climb from Marrone's .500 teams to McD's "wildcard contention" level.  

 

I’m cool with slow as long as it’s sustained.

[teef]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Saying they are .500 and that certain pretty indicative metrics........like a huge negative point differential and a 30th ranked offense over 3 years.........suggest they are lucky to be .500............may disappoint you but it's there.

 

Yes as you said we'd be disappointed to know that the new regime took over a team and proceeded to be .500 over the next 3 seasons coming off two regimes that played nearly the same .500 level football.    

 

No I would not have been surprised by a 9-7 and 10-6 season over the next 3 years because the team they inherited was talented enough to have been in the playoffs in any of the prior 5 seasons going back to the last year of Chan Gailey.   

 

I mean if you are upset by the thought of .500 you are then surprised to be 9-7, 6-10 and 10-6?   That's a very short bridge to cross from where they were coming from.

 

These "we never expected to make the playoffs anytime soon" retro-active takes come from a place that surely was not TBD.

 

What it comes down to is that we want to PERCEIVE that something special is happening..........in reality it's been a very slow 7 year climb from Marrone's .500 teams to McD's "wildcard contention" level.  

 

we keep hearing about how the talent was enough, but the playoffs never seemed to happen.  you can down play the playoff appearances if you like, but to me they're a huge positive.  we're PERCEIVING that something special is happening because the team seems to be on an upward trend.  you're correct in that it may actually fall apart, and you're absolutely correct that a lot of improvements need to be made, but presents a .500 record to reflect that this staff's effort/results are average isn't accurate to me.  some people lean towards the constant negative, which is their choice.  

Just now, schoolhouserock said:

I’m cool with slow as long as it’s sustained.

so am i.  

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, teef said:

we keep hearing about how the talent was enough, but the playoffs never seemed to happen.  you can down play the playoff appearances if you like, but to me they're a huge positive.  we're PERCEIVING that something special is happening because the team seems to be on an upward trend.  you're correct in that it may actually fall apart, and you're absolutely correct that a lot of improvements need to be made, but presents a .500 record to reflect that this staff's effort/results are average isn't accurate to me.  some people lean towards the constant negative, which is their choice.  

I would have taken more issue w/ 'wildcard contention level' tbh

 

We had wildcard wrapped up, we were contending for the division and a first round bye this season whether they'll admit it or not

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That's your position now, but wasn't at the time or years after that offseason.  You always framed it as a big mistake & miss on the Bills part.

 

 

The Star signing was an admission of a mistake thinking the defense wouldn't miss Dareus in the middle.  That move was 100% "process" because it was clear that Dareus was not going to be onboard with what McD was building.  So, Beane plucked the best available Panther to help stabilize the D.   

 

Looking at this in retrospect, Bills got more overall value from Star in his two years for $26 million than they have from Murphy for $15 million, although both underperformed.

 

 

 

The highlighted is a total fabrication.

 

I hadn't mentioned Harris since he re-signed with the Jets.........the Bills didn't have the option of signing him........he signed BEFORE UFA Gerry........he was NOT available.

 

I'll help you out..........the transaction I think you are talking about was the Bills not trading for Brandon Marshall.     I was all in on trading for him and hated the Percy Harvin signing.

 

Marshall went on to have a 1500 yard 14 TD season with the Jets...........he fell off after that..........probably wasn't worth the long term contract but sure as hell beat paying Percy Harvin anything.

 

And yes the Star signing was an admission of a mistake and they threw good money at bad to fix it.     He didn't re-store the run defense to what it was prior to Dareus trade.   In fact when teams want to run on the Bills the Bills still struggle to defense it.    The WC game in Houston even turned on the Texans deciding to run the ball up the middle.   It's still the achilles heel of an otherwise excellent defense.

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, schoolhouserock said:

I’m cool with slow as long as it’s sustained.

 

 

In the past 20 years the Peyton Manning Colts are the ONLY organization that has rose to any sustained success from bottoming out............the easiest way to greatness is from a start at .500 type level.  

 

Bills fans have often lamented mediocrity as a reason for not being able to take the next step but that's always been BS.

 

The Bills are in a perfect position to take the next step...........but contrary to the retro-active narrative they actually were there under Marrone and Ryan as well...................you gotta' make the right moves to take the next step but it's there for the taking.

Edited February 12, 2020 by BADOLBILZ

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Only cause this went over and over during reg season, but there is a fundamental lack of understanding about how the interior dline operates in McD's scheme

 

Lotulelei does a ton of stuff that not only doesn't show up on stat sheet but gets missed by almost every casual fan...shuffle and bridge to engage and free up another DT, downblock and open gap for LB control, lines up offset to play immediate double for twists/stunts...if the dline is the engine he's like the serpentine belt. Everything kind of rotates in conjunction w his work. Oliver is going to be the crankshaft that can do it all but he needs more experience. Phillips is like a turbo, super fun but nonessential.

 

Er....Jordan Phillips or Harrison Phillips?

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Er....Jordan Phillips or Harrison Phillips?

Jordan Phillips

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Jordan Phillips

 

You relieve my mind of the need to impugn your judgement in this instance.

Or to put it as Weird Al  "Or else, my brother, I might have to get medieval on your heinie"

[Nick the Greek]

I hate fully guaranteed contracts.

 

see Eric Woods last contract before he was forced to retire. We got burned.. bad. 

[teef]

21 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I would have taken more issue w/ 'wildcard contention level' tbh

 

We had wildcard wrapped up, we were contending for the division and a first round bye this season whether they'll admit it or not

They were on the cusp for sure. Get getting to the playoffs this year was a mental win for me. Who knew if Josh was going to improve, who knew if they would bring in enough offensive talent to improve, etc. 

 

It’s not enough for the long term, but I’m satisfied with where the bills are after 3 years. 

[BADOLBILZ]

25 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I would have taken more issue w/ 'wildcard contention level' tbh

 

We had wildcard wrapped up, we were contending for the division and a first round bye this season whether they'll admit it or not

 

 

When the schedule got tough the Bills played like a "wildcard contender".

 

They had their chance to be more than that but they rode the easiest schedule the team has seen in 40 years to a 5th seed.

 

And were once again SWEPT by the division champion Patriots.

 

McDermott is 0-6 versus Belichick...........and some of those losses over that time were when the Pats were playing their worst football of the season...........so until you start winning some games against the division leader you aren't really a division contender...........and once you get there you gotta' start winning some meaningful games against other division winners and top seeds or you aren't a SB contender. 

 

As Bill Parcells said after turning the 1-15 Dolphins into a division winner the next season.........the climb from bad to decent is a lot easier than the next level up.

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by BADOLBILZ

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

When the schedule got tough the Bills played like a "wildcard contender".

 

They had their chance to be more than that but they rode the easiest schedule the team has seen in 40 years to a 5th seed.

 

And were once again SWEPT by the division champion Patriots.

 

McDermott is 0-6 versus Belichick...........and some of those losses over that time were when the Pats were playing their worst football of the season...........so until you start winning some games against the division leader you aren't really a division contender...........and once you get there you gotta' start winning some meaningful games against other division winners and top seeds you aren't a SB contender. 

 

As Bill Parcells said after turning the 1-15 Dolphins into a division winner the next season.........the climb from bad to decent is a lot easier than the next level up.

 

Agree w the bolded and the point re: easy schedule

 

However- I don't agree they played the tough stretch like a wildcard contender. They mopped up the Broncos to start, then went into primetime away vs Dallas and dominated a desperate team at home. That was a legit win. Then lost a close (although Bills clearly second best) home game to the hottest team in the league at the time in the Ravens, but bounced back with maybe the biggest win in the last 5 yrs @Pitt. Finished that stretch by giving the Pats all they could handle at Foxborough and yes, came up short again but I did not see them shrink when things tightened up at all. I thought they looked the part down the stretch. They looked inexperienced to my eyes more than anything, NOT like they didn't belong or couldn't hang w the best

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

When the schedule got tough the Bills played like a "wildcard contender".

 

They had their chance to be more than that but they rode the easiest schedule the team has seen in 40 years to a 5th seed.

 

And were once again SWEPT by the division champion Patriots.

 

McDermott is 0-6 versus Belichick...........and some of those losses over that time were when the Pats were playing their worst football of the season...........so until you start winning some games against the division leader you aren't really a division contender...........and once you get there you gotta' start winning some meaningful games against other division winners and top seeds or you aren't a SB contender. 

 

As Bill Parcells said after turning the 1-15 Dolphins into a division winner the next season.........the climb from bad to decent is a lot easier than the next level up.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_income_trap

[billsfan89]

11 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I disagree with your first paragraph, though I think you're right on with the rest, but he really isn't overpaid. He was paid what he was worth to McDermott. He isn't just a run-stopper, it's more complex than that, as I'm sure you know. He's a space eater, and there aren't that many of those guys to go around, so the good ones get paid well, as there are two or three significantly above Star in the top ten. It's a really difficult job that few are able to physically handle. Not every defense needs one, but the ones that do need them badly.

 

Space eater may not be a "premium position," but neither is $10 mill a year a premium salary. Star is tied for 148th highest paid in the league, in terms of average salary, and 129th highest in terms of guarantee. Calling that a premium salary would be ridiculous. The bottom line is simply that this is a position that McDermott needs filled in his defense and needs filled at a pretty high level. He knew Star could fill it at that level, having coached him in Carolina. And if McDermott has showed one thing, it's that he knows how to put together a really good defense with consistency. He needed Star to do that. 

 

As you point out, this is a good deal for both sides, a small pay cut for some guarantees the Bills are willing to live with because they want him here.

 

Saying he is 148th highest paid in the league is highly misleading. When he signed his deal in 2018 he was the 10th highest paid DT in the league and even in 2019 was still the 13th highest paid at his position. I think looking at his standing within his position is the best way to look at things. Star has a function in the system however he doesn't rush the passer and Star is not elite at being a space eater. Don't get me wrong he is good at that role but I don't think he is a Snacks Harrison type space eater. 

 

I don't think he comes even close to being top 20 DT in the league, thus him being paid in or close to the top 10 at his position makes him overpaid. However being overpaid doesn't mean he doesn't have value to the defense. I think this pay cut brings him closer to his true value and I am fine with him at his current salary and he fills a good role effectively. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Saying he is 148th highest paid in the league is highly misleading. When he signed his deal in 2018 he was the 10th highest paid DT in the league and even in 2019 was still the 13th highest paid at his position. I think looking at his standing within his position is the best way to look at things. Star has a function in the system however he doesn't rush the passer and Star is not elite at being a space eater. Don't get me wrong he is good at that role but I don't think he is a Snacks Harrison type space eater. 

 

I don't think he comes even close to being top 20 DT in the league, thus him being paid in or close to the top 10 at his position makes him overpaid. However being overpaid doesn't mean he doesn't have value to the defense. I think this pay cut brings him closer to his true value and I am fine with him at his current salary and he fills a good role effectively. 

 

 

@Thurman#1 is making massive excuses here......there is a CHASM between Star Lotulelei and the best space eaters........he is not even good at the job.

 

Snax is a NT playing head up on the OL in front of him and still routinely makes 70+ tackles per season.............he literally keeps his LB's clean...........and not every team thinks even a guy like Snax is worth the money he gets.

 

Ideally the DT1T in McDefense can make plays in the backfield as well............like Star did as a rookie.    It's not a NT position where the guy just has to hold up blocks for the big MLB to come in and get clean shots on RB's...........a DT1T should be able to tackle a RB.     Harrison Phillips tackles RB's so the Bills at least have that when he returns.

 

[John from Riverside]

34 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

@Thurman#1 is making massive excuses here......there is a CHASM between Star Lotulelei and the best space eaters........he is not even good at the job.

 

Snax is a NT playing head up on the OL in front of him and still routinely makes 70+ tackles per season.............he literally keeps his LB's clean...........and not every team thinks even a guy like Snax is worth the money he gets.

 

Ideally the DT1T in McDefense can make plays in the backfield as well............like Star did as a rookie.    It's not a NT position where the guy just has to hold up blocks for the big MLB to come in and get clean shots on RB's...........a DT1T should be able to tackle a RB.     Harrison Phillips tackles RB's so the Bills at least have that when he returns.

 

His Harrison Phillips available?

[BillsVet]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If fans cite some statistic, but it's not particularly relevant or meaningful, does that make it substantive?

 

I don't get the point about "being a .500 team after 3 full seasons of rebuilding".  I mean, technically, we're not...we're just over 0.500 (0.520 to be exact)

The 49'ers on the other hand, have yet to reach 0.500 in 3 years under Shanahan.... they're 0.479 (to be exact)

 

What point are you trying to illustrate with this 0.500 team thing?

 

 

Would you argue economics using recidivism rates?  Or the success of a corporation with unemployment?

 

Neither would you debate the W-L record over a 3 year span for a team when they just played in the SB.  SF showed tremendous improvement.  Buffalo won 1 more game in '19 than they did in '17.  Which team is trending up and which one appears to be plateauing in their rebuild?  

 

I see this as a willful conflation of the topic at hand and, I also realize has strayed far from the original topic.  

[GG]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The highlighted is a total fabrication.

 

I hadn't mentioned Harris since he re-signed with the Jets.........the Bills didn't have the option of signing him........he signed BEFORE UFA Gerry........he was NOT available.

 

I'll help you out..........the transaction I think you are talking about was the Bills not trading for Brandon Marshall.     I was all in on trading for him and hated the Percy Harvin signing.

 

 

 

Of course you hadn't mentioned after he re-signed with the Jets.  Maybe a weather-wane is more correct?  And then this twist.

 

If you don't want to hit the links, here are the quotes:

 

Quote

 

May 2016

(Ragland is )Not as talented as former Alabama ILB and current Cowboy Rolando McClain.

 

So basically no way he will ever hold a candle to Ray Lewis.

 

Rex is hoping for another David Harris. Also doubtful but a better comp.

 

Should have just passed on trading for an $8M RB and paid David Harris the extra $1M per to leave the Jets and follow him to Buffalo.

 

That was the formula that worked in NY with Bart Scott following him from the Ravens. Preston Brown and Bradhams struggles communicating defensive adjustments played a huge part in sinking last season.

 

--------

 

October 2016

 

As for Harris........I wasn't a proponent of signing him in FA.........my point was that they blamed the defensive issues on communication and if Harris was the key to not blowing what should have been a playoff season in 2015.....then they should have paid him ahead of warty stars like Harvin, Hammy McCoy or Charles Clay.

 

Horse......then cart.

 

I never thought Harris was actually needed..........if it wasn't obvious then it is much clearer now that they simply did a sh*t job of preparing the D in the 8 months leading up to the 2015 season.........but Preston Brown was scapegoated for it and Harris WAS available so they don't really have a leg to stand on IMO as far as that excuse is concerned.

 

 

 

 

[YattaOkasan]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

In the past 20 years the Peyton Manning Colts are the ONLY organization that has rose to any sustained success from bottoming out............the easiest way to greatness is from a start at .500 type level.  

 

Bills fans have often lamented mediocrity as a reason for not being able to take the next step but that's always been BS.

 

The Bills are in a perfect position to take the next step...........but contrary to the retro-active narrative they actually were there under Marrone and Ryan as well...................you gotta' make the right moves to take the next step but it's there for the taking.

San Fran picked ahead of last year. Feel like they bottomed out and got good value for it. 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

San Fran picked ahead of last year. Feel like they bottomed out and got good value for it. 

 

 

Jacksonville also tanked for 5 years.......and then had a 4th quarter lead in the AFC Championship game in New England.

 

But then there were the next 2 seasons.

 

Like I said.......since Indy in 1998 nobody has tanked and gone from there to SUSTAINED success.

 

Patriots, Steelers, Seahawks, Packers, Ravens........these teams have been the most consistent contenders of the first two decades of this century and have won 12 of the first 20 Super Bowls.........and they never tanked.