Cut or Trade candidates

[Dkollidas]

Obviously we all know the big name free agents, Ngakoue, Cooper, Hooper, etc.

 

What I want to look at here is who people are looking at for some low key additions. 
 

Either:

1) A trade candidate i.e. Stephon Diggs, or Alshon Jeffrey, or Ryan Kerrigan 

 

2) guys who could be cut or have club options not picked up i.e. Everson Griffen, Carlos Dunlap or Calais Campbell. 

[Rc2catch]

I like that market much better than the current free agent market. 

[Dkollidas]

21 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I like that market much better than the current free agent market. 

Myself as well. That’s why I’m curious of who people have heard is/will be available via cut or trade. 
 

I also believe this is the market Beane will attack most vigorously as opposed to top tier free agents.

[Rock'em Sock'em]

Trades work out better for teams that are working the comp pick formulas.  A team like the Seahawks can trade a 1st round pick for a guy like Clowney.  Then if he leaves after one year, they will at least get back a 3rd rounder.  Same for the Patriots (Sanu) and the Ravens (Peters). The same trade to a team not getting comp picks would effectively cost that team more.

 

I personally am hoping for AJ Green plus a defensive end.  Dunlap is not a splashy player, but is an extremely solid edge setter and plays with gap responsibility. The other defensive ends listed would improve our team.  For the reason stated above, I would not be a fan of trading picks.  Player for player trades work out when good players don't fit on their current team.

[BuffaloRebound]

Joey Bosa most likely sits out without a new deal.  I don’t he’d cost what Mack did, but I’d pursue it if I were Beane.  

[Mr. WEO]

42 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

Obviously we all know the big name free agents, Ngakoue, Cooper, Hooper, etc.

 

What I want to look at here is who people are looking at for some low key additions. 
 

Either:

1) A trade candidate i.e. Stephon Diggs, or Alshon Jeffrey, or Ryan Kerrigan 

 

2) guys who could be cut or have club options not picked up i.e. Everson Griffen, Carlos Dunlap or Calais Campbell. 

 

to reiterate:

 

 

 

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Joey Bosa most likely sits out without a new deal.  I don’t he’d cost what Mack did, but I’d pursue it if I were Beane.  

 

Given how good of a drafter Beane is thus far I would be unwilling to give up pick 22 and possibly another mid-round pick for Bosa AND give him a massive contract. That's exchanging a lot of your cap space and draft capital for one player. If this was Whaley or another GM who stunk at drafting I wouldn't mind doing it since the picks have lesser value if you don't know how to use them. But I would rather just use cap space to go after one of the many pass rusher on the market instead of cap and picks. 

[3rdand12]

7 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Given how good of a drafter Beane is thus far I would be unwilling to give up pick 22 and possibly another mid-round pick for Bosa AND give him a massive contract. That's exchanging a lot of your cap space and draft capital for one player. If this was Whaley or another GM who stunk at drafting I wouldn't mind doing it since the picks have lesser value if you don't know how to use them. But I would rather just use cap space to go after one of the many pass rusher on the market instead of cap and picks. 

I would pay the man.

Change Bills Defense in one fell swoop.

[BuffaloRebound]

6 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Given how good of a drafter Beane is thus far I would be unwilling to give up pick 22 and possibly another mid-round pick for Bosa AND give him a massive contract. That's exchanging a lot of your cap space and draft capital for one player. If this was Whaley or another GM who stunk at drafting I wouldn't mind doing it since the picks have lesser value if you don't know how to use them. But I would rather just use cap space to go after one of the many pass rusher on the market instead of cap and picks. 

 

True but Bosa is elite and a process guy.  We’re gonna have to overpay for one of the free agent edge rushers who’s not as good as Bosa.  He’s good enough and young enough to consider it.  

[bigK14094]

27 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

 

True but Bosa is elite and a process guy.  We’re gonna have to overpay for one of the free agent edge rushers who’s not as good as Bosa.  He’s good enough and young enough to consider it.  

A process guy????? What planet are you from?

[Kirby Jackson]

This may not be the place but can we PLEASE stop with the whole “process guy” thing. We traded for Antonio Brown last year!! The Bills certainly value culture but they absolutely value talent.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[KD in CA]

11 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

A process guy????? What planet are you from?

 

Yeah, I'd say guys named Bosa and Watt pretty much follow their own path.  But I'd love one of them on the Bills.

[Rc2catch]

12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

This may not be the place but can we PLEASE stop with the whole “process guy” thing. We traded for Antonio Brown last year!! The Bills certainly value culture but they absolutely value talent.

Yeah the process is over. Leaders are in place, they have the core they wanted. Anyone gets out of line they have the players to put them in check. 

[wppete]

I really like the idea of going after Ryan Kerrigan to take over the SAM LB position. Think he would be an upgrade from Lorenzo. Hoping the Rivera, McBeane connection can make something happen. 
 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by wppete

[Kirby Jackson]

11 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Yeah the process is over. Leaders are in place, they have the core they wanted. Anyone gets out of line they have the players to put them in check. 

That’s exactly the point. They wanted a year or 2 to establish their expectations and build a strong locker room. Once that happened all bets were off. Antonio Brown is, arguably, the worst person in the league (or at least one of them). There is NOBODY that the Bills won’t consider if the talent, price, need and fit make sense.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

Obviously we all know the big name free agents, Ngakoue, Cooper, Hooper, etc.

 

What I want to look at here is who people are looking at for some low key additions. 
 

Either:

1) A trade candidate i.e. Stephon Diggs, or Alshon Jeffrey, or Ryan Kerrigan 

 

2) guys who could be cut or have club options not picked up i.e. Everson Griffen, Carlos Dunlap or Calais Campbell. 

 

I thought we already hashed out the Alshon Jeffrey situation.  He will cost the Eagles $15M in dead cap if they trade him.  Agholor is a FA.  Agholor and Jeffrey's injuries showed how thin the Eagles are at WR behind them. 

 

I think the Eagles will be buyers in the WR market, not sellers; if they do move on from one of the main guys they've already got, it would more likely be to not re-sign Agholor.

 

35 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

This may not be the place but can we PLEASE stop with the whole “process guy” thing. We traded for Antonio Brown last year!! The Bills certainly value culture but they absolutely value talent.

 

We did WHAT?

 

We maybe did the due diligence of a phone call asking "if you're going to trade him, maybe we're interested, what's your asking price?" but that's a few blocks over from "trading"

[Dkollidas]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I thought we already hashed out the Alshon Jeffrey situation.  He will cost the Eagles $15M in dead cap if they trade him.  Agholor is a FA.  Agholor and Jeffrey's injuries showed how thin the Eagles are at WR behind them. 

 

I think the Eagles will be buyers in the WR market, not sellers; if they do move on from one of the main guys they've already got, it would more likely be to not re-sign Agholor.

I was just using examples. Yes I made a specific post about Jeffrey but wanted to expand upon players around the league.

You’re welcome to your opinion that he won’t be moved by Philadelphia. At the same time, Jeffrey is one of many players whose name is out there as a potential trade candidate. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Dkollidas

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Yeah the process is over. Leaders are in place, they have the core they wanted. Anyone gets out of line they have the players to put them in check. 

 

I actually think one of McDermott's post-season messages was to the contrary - that keeping leadership in each room will be a continual challenge as players retire or become FA and move on, and that failure to do so is something he saw as a "lesson learned" in Carolina.

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I actually think one of McDermott's post-season messages was to the contrary - that keeping leadership in each room will be a continual challenge as players retire or become FA and move on, and that failure to do so is something he saw as a "lesson learned" in Carolina.

 

"...we on the personnel side will look at it with our own eyes. Sean and his coaches are in the meeting room and might like (a certain player) more because they’ve become buddies and see the game the same way and communicate well.

 

“I stand back and look at it from a distance. Maybe he doesn’t want to teach a new guy, who has just a little more ability, the ins and outs of his system. It’s my job to press him on that if I think there are players who make us better in the draft or free agency.”

[Rc2catch]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I actually think one of McDermott's post-season messages was to the contrary - that keeping leadership in each room will be a continual challenge as players retire or become FA and move on, and that failure to do so is something he saw as a "lesson learned" in Carolina.

To a certain extent sure. But at this point Allen, Milano, Poyer and Hyde and maybe even smoke and Dawkins etc etc have got to set the tone for the locker room. 
Even new guys like Feliciano. 
I can’t see someone loafing it in practice or talking silly and one of those guys not putting them in their place. 
Let’s use Bosa as example since he was discussed as not a “process guy” earlier in this thread. 

If he was giving half effort during practice or in a game or just running his mouth I can’t see our players not putting him in check. Even if we break it down as positional groups in the film rooms I have to believe that guys like Star and Jerry set the tone for this kind of stuff. 
Every team needs their leaders, but for me anyways “the process” and “he’s not a process guy” stuff is long gone. They reshaped the entire team in guys who share a like mindedness with this staff. They have the culture they wanted so they can add guys who may be a little questionable on the character side now to this locker room without making it toxic. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

 

True but Bosa is elite and a process guy.  We’re gonna have to overpay for one of the free agent edge rushers who’s not as good as Bosa.  He’s good enough and young enough to consider it.  

I dont know how much of a process guy Bosa is......I do know he is a damn good player....I would be all for this.

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I thought we already hashed out the Alshon Jeffrey situation.  He will cost the Eagles $15M in dead cap if they trade him.  Agholor is a FA.  Agholor and Jeffrey's injuries showed how thin the Eagles are at WR behind them. 

 

I think the Eagles will be buyers in the WR market, not sellers; if they do move on from one of the main guys they've already got, it would more likely be to not re-sign Agholor.

 

 

We did WHAT?

 

We maybe did the due diligence of a phone call asking "if you're going to trade him, maybe we're interested, what's your asking price?" but that's a few blocks over from "trading"

We had the terms worked out but couldn’t reach the terms we needed with him. If Antonio Brown agreed, he would have been on the Bills.
 

The point being the Bills were (and will be) willing to overlook a suspect character if they think he helps them win. That’s why it’s stupid, at this point, to cross guys off the list because they aren’t “process guys.” That’s dead. The culture and leadership is in place. The Bills will look at anyone and everyone that fits a need at the right price.

[Sherlock Holmes]

3 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

Obviously we all know the big name free agents, Ngakoue, Cooper, Hooper, etc.

 

What I want to look at here is who people are looking at for some low key additions. 
 

Either:

1) A trade candidate i.e. Stephon Diggs, or Alshon Jeffrey, or Ryan Kerrigan 

 

2) guys who could be cut or have club options not picked up i.e. Everson Griffen, Carlos Dunlap or Calais Campbell. 

1. Christian McCaffrey

2.Cooper Kupp

3. Joey Bosa

4.Ryan Kerrigan

Edited February 7, 2020 by Sherlock Holmes

[whatdrought]

I'd love me some Calais Campbell. 

[Rc2catch]

4 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

1. Christian McCaffrey

2.Cooper Kupp

3. Joey Bosa

4.Ryan Kerrigan

Mccafrey? He’s completely un tradeable. 
They would literally fire Rhule before the draft if he traded away the face of the franchise. 
They already lost Kuechly, Olsen, possibly trading Newton, and they’re probably cutting some more guys since it looks like they’re going back to the 4-3. 
I get rebuilds, and “tanking” and all that but they still have to sell some tickets. 
It’s a nice wish list of players though. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 minute ago, Rc2catch said:

Mccafrey? He’s completely un tradeable. 
They would literally fire Rhule before the draft if he traded away the face of the franchise. 
They already lost Kuechly, Olsen, possibly trading Newton, and they’re probably cutting some more guys since it looks like they’re going back to the 4-3. 
I get rebuilds, and “tanking” and all that but they still have to sell some tickets. 
It’s a nice wish list of players though. 

They can keep Scam Newton then Kuechly retired so he can come here to coach, knew it would cost too much to trade for both him and McCaffrey

[BuffaloRebound]

12 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

1. Christian McCaffrey

2.Cooper Kupp

3. Joey Bosa

4.Ryan Kerrigan

The high motor lunch pail team.  

[thebandit27]

A number of EDGE players could get traded, including any of:

Chandler Jones

Calais Campbell 

Von Miller

Everson Griffen 

I also think there’s a better than fair chance that a RB or two move among Malcolm Brown and Gio Bernard.

[Trogdor]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I actually think one of McDermott's post-season messages was to the contrary - that keeping leadership in each room will be a continual challenge as players retire or become FA and move on, and that failure to do so is something he saw as a "lesson learned" in Carolina.

I hope he saw a way to not slip back into mediocrity. That team had a very good run, but it has largely underperformed in a division that sometimes allows a winner at .500. I don't think you have to be an aged out vet to be a leader, so hopefully they don't go that way.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

We had the terms worked out but couldn’t reach the terms we needed with him. If Antonio Brown agreed, he would have been on the Bills.
 

The point being the Bills were (and will be) willing to overlook a suspect character if they think he helps them win. That’s why it’s stupid, at this point, to cross guys off the list because they aren’t “process guys.” That’s dead. The culture and leadership is in place. The Bills will look at anyone and everyone that fits a need at the right price.

 

Bottom line, I agree with you that I don't think the Bills will rule anyone out at this point if he has the talent they need and the price is right.

 

Kirby, you're very definite here, I know you have involvement in the industry.  Without compromising a source, can you give anything that would lend credence to this?  It kind of goes against what AB (not that he's a credible source) and what Beane has said on the topic publicly to wit:

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/08/buffalo-bills-brandon-beane-antonio-brown-moved-on/

 

“We inquired about Antonio Brown on Tuesday, and kept talks open with the Steelers. We had positive discussions, but ultimately it didn’t make sense for either side. As great as a player as Antonio Brown is, we have moved on and our focus is on free agency.”

Then there's this:

 

Then there was something about Brown telling Rosenhaus just to throw out the Bills, don't even bother to talk to them.

 

All in all, it just didn't sound like it was anywhere close to a final deal.

PS and Thank God for that!

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

A number of EDGE players could get traded, including any of:

Chandler Jones

Calais Campbell 

Von Miller

Everson Griffen 

I also think there’s a better than fair chance that a RB or two move among Malcolm Brown and Gio Bernard.

 

Von Miller ?? but what would the price be?

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Von Miller ?? but what would the price be?

High...but not so high that I wouldn’t pay it

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Bottom line, I agree with you that I don't think the Bills will rule anyone out at this point if he has the talent they need and the price is right.

 

Kirby, you're very definite here, I know you have involvement in the industry.  Without compromising a source, can you give anything that would lend credence to this?  It kind of goes against what AB (not that he's a credible source) and what Beane has said on the topic publicly to wit:

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/08/buffalo-bills-brandon-beane-antonio-brown-moved-on/

 

“We inquired about Antonio Brown on Tuesday, and kept talks open with the Steelers. We had positive discussions, but ultimately it didn’t make sense for either side. As great as a player as Antonio Brown is, we have moved on and our focus is on free agency.”

Then there's this:

 

Then there was something about Brown telling Rosenhaus just to throw out the Bills, don't even bother to talk to them.

 

All in all, it just didn't sound like it was anywhere close to a final deal.

PS and Thank God for that!

 

 

FWIW, I’ll back Kirby on that info being legit 

[Kirby Jackson]

33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Bottom line, I agree with you that I don't think the Bills will rule anyone out at this point if he has the talent they need and the price is right.

 

Kirby, you're very definite here, I know you have involvement in the industry.  Without compromising a source, can you give anything that would lend credence to this?  It kind of goes against what AB (not that he's a credible source) and what Beane has said on the topic publicly to wit:

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/08/buffalo-bills-brandon-beane-antonio-brown-moved-on/

 

“We inquired about Antonio Brown on Tuesday, and kept talks open with the Steelers. We had positive discussions, but ultimately it didn’t make sense for either side. As great as a player as Antonio Brown is, we have moved on and our focus is on free agency.”

Then there's this:

 

Then there was something about Brown telling Rosenhaus just to throw out the Bills, don't even bother to talk to them.

 

All in all, it just didn't sound like it was anywhere close to a final deal.

PS and Thank God for that!

 

 

I just know what I’ve heard from the Steelers people and it was pretty much done. It doesn’t look good for anyone the way that it ended so I think that’s why the narrative came out as it did. It’s easier to say “everyone was misinformed” than to say “we thought it was done and were wrong.” Maybe you’re right and it wasn’t there. The truth is probably somewhere in between.
 

Either way, the point being that they are willing to look into suspect characters remains. The whole “process guy” thing shouldn’t impact our line of thinking this offseason. I’m not saying that the Bills will bring in Greg Hardy, Tyreke Hill, and Johnny Manziel, etc... We should not however, be at all surprised if we see a guy or 2 that aren’t stereotypical “process guys.” The culture and leadership is in place that they would now be comfortable with a guy with some questions. If the Bills were to trade for OBJ (as an example) we shouldn’t be shocked. The Bills aren’t only looking at stereotypical “process guys” at this point. They are looking at EVERYONE that they think can make them better. Their pursuit of Antonio Brown is all the evidence that we need.

[Buffalo Boy]

3 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

Mccafrey? He’s completely un tradeable. 
They would literally fire Rhule before the draft if he traded away the face of the franchise. 
They already lost Kuechly, Olsen, possibly trading Newton, and they’re probably cutting some more guys since it looks like they’re going back to the 4-3. 
I get rebuilds, and “tanking” and all that but they still have to sell some tickets. 
It’s a nice wish list of players though. 

    This is an ongoing discussion in Charlotte all over the local sports radio shows.

     It is expected that McCaffrey is going to reset the market at running back with the number I keep hearing being $18 million per season.

     The stat that keeps getting passed around is something like : The combined salaries of the last ten RBs to start for  the SB winners is in the $11-12 million range. 
    A team that is clearly in rebuilding mode could use both the draft/ trade capital as well as the cap room unloading McC gets them.

    Also, history shows the odds that he continues to earn that contract with stellar play at that position is questionable for the duration of 4-5 year deal.

    Couple all this with Rhule signing a seven year deal and the idea of McC being available for the right price is not as far fetched as you seem to think.

    What does it cost ?

    Two firsts??

    

[Rc2catch]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    This is an ongoing discussion in Charlotte all over the local sports radio shows.

     It is expected that McCaffrey is going to reset the market at running back with the number I keep hearing being $18 million per season.

     The stat that keeps getting passed around is something like : The combined salaries of the last ten RBs to start for  the SB winners is in the $11-12 million range. 
    A team that is clearly in rebuilding mode could use both the draft/ trade capital as well as the cap room unloading McC gets them.

    Also, history shows the odds that he continues to earn that contract with stellar play at that position is questionable for the duration of 4-5 year deal.

    Couple all this with Rhule signing a seven year deal and the idea of McC being available for the right price is not as far fetched as you seem to think.

    What does it cost ?

    Two firsts??

    

He’s arguably the best player in the league outside of quarterback of course. 
I can see reasons to trade him, but from an owner standpoint I can’t see having an empty stadium for an entire season. Trading him is more realistic when it actually comes contract time. Losing kuechly to retirement and Olsen being gone and possibly cutting/trading Cam they really don’t have much of anything left except their young core of players. CMC is the face of the franchise and “fantasy draft pick #1” next year. His popularity is at an all time high. Fans will buy tickets to see him. If he’s gone who is gonna go to games to watch? 
I don’t think they are in full blown rebuild personally. It all hinges on what they do at quarterback. If they can’t get one and don’t want Cam yeah they kinda have to rebuild. If they land a Teddy Bridgewater and some pieces on defense and an offensive lineman or two I think they could sniff playoffs next season. Moore and samuel are pretty shifty decent receivers. Burns looked legit. I like some of their team. 
 

But if they decided to move CMC they should be calling Miami not us. If he’s setting the market in the future for running back contracts they should expect at minimum 2 first round picks plus more. Otherwise it makes no sense for them. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Rc2catch

[below]

Diggs

Brandin Cooks or Robert Woods

Corey Davis

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

This may not be the place but can we PLEASE stop with the whole “process guy” thing. We traded for Antonio Brown last year!! The Bills certainly value culture but they absolutely value talent.

You are correct that the Bills value talent but it will not be acquired without other considerations. They didn't make a trade for AB.  It was reported that the Bills were involved in the discussions to acquire him.  Whether they were serious about getting him or were just trying to drive up the price, is still not known for sure.  I believe that Beane will avoid players that will be distractions, locker room problems, or not adhere to assignments within the scheme being played.  I don't care what kind of label people put on this; culture, process, etc..

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, below said:

Diggs

Brandin Cooks or Robert Woods

Corey Davis

 

Given the talk about the Bills being willing to negotiate for AB, it may not make a difference, but apparently Diggs is a bit of a ...

anyway, in this fluff piece, 4 Vikings are clear and unambiguous that he's the guy on the team they would LEAST like to date their sister. 

 

[Putin]

8 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Given how good of a drafter Beane is thus far I would be unwilling to give up pick 22 and possibly another mid-round pick for Bosa AND give him a massive contract. That's exchanging a lot of your cap space and draft capital for one player. If this was Whaley or another GM who stunk at drafting I wouldn't mind doing it since the picks have lesser value if you don't know how to use them. But I would rather just use cap space to go after one of the many pass rusher on the market instead of cap and picks. 

One of many pass rushers on the market ?? 

 

[Nester]

Diggs on the field tantrums soured me in him a bit.