So whatever will happen to "Right Josh" Rosen?

[TwistofFate]

5 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

There are countless posts in the ashes of message boards where the poster says "I saw him play in college" & "he was screwed" when the true reason the guy flamed out in the NFL is simply he isn't good enough to perform at the next level.  Most of the guys he's playing against in college will only get in a NFL game with a ticket.  Heisman trophy winners like Leinart, #1 picks like Tim Couch, etc they all couldn't cut it at the next level because they lacked the talent to advance at the next level.  Rosen is in the same boat.  He wasn't screwed.  Arizona spotted that he lacked the goods and was able to get something back, but the lack of interest as pointed out in an earlier post that mentioned Miami was able to trade down & still get him shows the league was on to him.  Miami will get little or nothing when they drop him.  1)He lacks the talent to play in the NFL, it's that simple 2) He definitely wasn't screwed-he made millions while lacking the ability to be a NFL QB.  

Lol, Arizona was a train wreck when they drafted him.   The coaching staff was so bad they were fired, the new coaching staff didn't want him because they wanted their own Qb who fit the offense the wanted to run.  

 

It made zero sense to keep him and pay the salary of two first round picks at the position. 

 

Miami benched him because they were losing the locker room after trading away loads of talent.   Its hard to get players to buy in to your methods when it was apparent they were putting in all this hard work for nothing.   Rosen became the sacrificial lamb to keep the team bought into their coaches vision. 

 

Rosens stats were almost identical to Allens in their rookie year.  Did we trade away Allen because he sucked? 

 

Rosen got the shaft, plain and simple. 

[Dr. Who]

4 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Rosen has gotten the shaft thus far in his career.  He has zero continuity around him, has been thrust into multiple different offenses on multiple teams, and hasn't been coached right anywhere. 

 

He will probably end up in New England where he will shine.  He still possessses a skill set that most qbs don't....unbelievable anticipatory throws. 

 

New England has shown interest in him already but the price was too high. He os a perfect fit in their system. 

 

With Tom Brady more than likely gone, the Pats will look to add top tier talent at a bargain price at that position. I can absolutely see in in NE this off-season. 

 

I believe Rosen was the best Qb in the draft and still believe that. He simply has not been as fortunate with his situation as Allen or Jackson. 

Allen's first year was not marked by a better surrounding roster than what Rosen had with the Cardinals. Both had abysmal o-lines, while I think the rb situation and receiver talent was generally better in Arizona. Nonetheless, there are differences where stats don't tell the whole story. Rosen floundered and pouted while Allen energized his teammates and won games. I'll keep in mind that you continue to believe Rosen was the best qb in his draft when I read your analysis of Allen's play.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Dr. Who

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Miami benched him because they were losing the locker room after trading away loads of talent.   Its hard to get players to buy in to your methods when it was apparent they were putting in all this hard work for nothing.   Rosen became the sacrificial lamb to keep the team bought into their coaches vision. 

 

No, they benched him because he was playing terrible and Fitzpatrick made the offense competent. Rosen had a passer rating of 52.0 this year. Fitzpatrick had a passer rating of 85.5 and he did it with a worse supporting cast considering Drake was traded and Preston Williams went on IR. They would have gone 0-16 with Rosen starting.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

15 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

In 2022 Rosen will be teamed with the Pegula's daughter in mixed doubles tennis.

 

 

...LMAO....best he'll do is "ball boy".....and complain about the other 9 assigned before him..............

[Charles Romes]

On 1/15/2020 at 8:55 PM, sven233 said:

Not that he has been great while getting a chance to start, but he's gotten a pretty raw deal if you ask me.  Two terrible organizations with absolutely no chance of winning with a young QB.  I'm not sure what will end up happening to him, but I do hope that he ends up in a good situation on a good team where he can backup for a couple years while working on his craft.

You could say Josh Allen was hung out to dry his rookie season with the the likes of Kelvin Benjamin and Jordan Mills to work with. Somehow he survived which may be the top indicator that our Josh will soon earn the undisputed franchise QB moniker.  

[Bing Bong]

Rosen's probably had the worst luck for a 1st round QB in the history of the league haha

55 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

You could say Josh Allen was hung out to dry his rookie season with the the likes of Kelvin Benjamin and Jordan Mills to work with. Somehow he survived which may be the top indicator that our Josh will soon earn the undisputed franchise QB moniker.  

The Cardinals and Dolphins were 2 of the worst teams ever man

[TwistofFate]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

Allen's first year was not marked by a better surrounding roster than what Rosen had with the Cardinals. Both had abysmal o-lines, while I think the rb situation and receiver talent was generally better in Arizona. Nonetheless, there are differences where stats don't tell the whole story. Rosen floundered and pouted while Allen energized his teammates and won games. I'll keep in mind that you continue to believe Rosen was the best qb in his draft when I read your analysis of Allen's play.

What does my analysis of Allen have to do with my assessment of Rosen? 

 

Ill tell you....nothing. 

 

Rosens situation in Zona isn't even comparable.  Buffalo head of cohesion among the coaches and front-office and we're on the incline.  Arizona was on the decline terrible coaching staff that was on the brink of being fired no Unity within the team.

 

Their situations are like night and day.

[Albany,n.y.]

9 hours ago, Putin said:

And you know him personally?

If you read the post you commented on you would know I stated that his teammates in Arizona, who do know him, never said he had a me me me attitude.  Since none of the posters, you & I included know what he is like with teammates, the most reliable sources are the guys he actually played with.  

[TwistofFate]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

No, they benched him because he was playing terrible and Fitzpatrick made the offense competent. Rosen had a passer rating of 52.0 this year. Fitzpatrick had a passer rating of 85.5 and he did it with a worse supporting cast considering Drake was traded and Preston Williams went on IR. They would have gone 0-16 with Rosen starting.

Apparently you haven't watched much film on Rosen in Miami.

 

Comparing a second-year quarterback on his second team with a whole team full of new players around him versus a 10-year plus veteran in the league is ludicrous in my opinion.

 

The switch was made to Fitzpatrick to save face by Flores.  I'm not sure how much you would expect out of a second-year quarterback on his second team in two years with an entirely new coaching staff but he was not given the chance to grow.

 

In fact aren't you one of the people who claimed the Josh Allen needed time with all these new players on offense?

 

Josh Allen is afforded the luxury of mistakes due to new offensive players but Rosen is not even though he's in a completely different system for the second year in a row?

 

That seems completely bias to me.

 

Go watch some film and highlights there's plenty of them on YouTube about Rosen.

 

Watch the contested throws he makes and The Tight Windows he throws in and the accuracy he displays.

 

The kid did not have a fair Shake.

Edited January 18, 2020 by TwistofFate

[BringBackFergy]

5 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

What does my analysis of Allen have to do with my assessment of Rosen? 

 

Ill tell you....nothing. 

 

Rosens situation in Zona isn't even comparable.  Buffalo head of cohesion among the coaches and front-office and we're on the incline.  Arizona was on the decline terrible coaching staff that was on the brink of being fired no Unity within the team.

 

Their situations are like night and day.

There it is...again and again. Poor J.R....was put in a bad situation. Tell me, aren’t most top 10 QB’s drafted put on bad teams? Baker, Darnold and Allen were all drafted by bad teams. How is it that the Cards were any different? Perhaps your analysis was off? You and the hundreds of experts who whiffed on their “Most NFL Ready” Rosen moniker. NFL Ready QB’s don’t make excuses for weaknesses in their selected team...they lead, compete, and garner respect of their teammates (Like Fitz, like Darnold, like Allen). They overcome weaknesses in the O line (like Allen did as a rookie). They work with the receivers they had (Rosen had Larry Fitzgerald...Allen had Foster). Stop making excuses for your terrible pre-draft analysis and admit you simply took the “experts” narrative which has proven to be sadly mistaken. 

[Albany,n.y.]

6 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Lol, Arizona was a train wreck when they drafted him.   The coaching staff was so bad they were fired, the new coaching staff didn't want him because they wanted their own Qb who fit the offense the wanted to run.  

 

It made zero sense to keep him and pay the salary of two first round picks at the position. 

 

Miami benched him because they were losing the locker room after trading away loads of talent.   Its hard to get players to buy in to your methods when it was apparent they were putting in all this hard work for nothing.   Rosen became the sacrificial lamb to keep the team bought into their coaches vision. 

 

Rosens stats were almost identical to Allens in their rookie year.  Did we trade away Allen because he sucked? 

 

Rosen got the shaft, plain and simple. 

You lost me at the stat thing.  When you watch Rosen & Allen play there's a world of difference that stats don't reflect.  Keep relying on stats & you'll never understand a game that needs to be seen to be understood.  That's why the coaches & players review film instead of burying their heads in a bunch of stat sheets.  

 

After seeing film of Rosen vs NFL talent, there was very little demand for Rosen in the trade market, reflected by the fact Miami traded down before trading for Rosen knowing that they were getting back a similar pick, one year removed, to the pick they were giving up for Rosen, making the trade low-risk.  

 

Rosen has pocketed money for a job he is not qualified to have.  If getting millions for lack of production is getting the shaft, you & I have a different opinion on what that means.  

 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

Allen's first year was not marked by a better surrounding roster than what Rosen had with the Cardinals. Both had abysmal o-lines, while I think the rb situation and receiver talent was generally better in Arizona. Nonetheless, there are differences where stats don't tell the whole story. Rosen floundered and pouted while Allen energized his teammates and won games. I'll keep in mind that you continue to believe Rosen was the best qb in his draft when I read your analysis of Allen's play.

 

I agree with this.  It's interesting to see all the revised history about who was in a worse position, Allen or Rosen.  The only thing I'll concede is that when all is said and done Allen is part of a better organization.  But that doesn't mean the Bills organization didn't put Allen in just as bad a position last year as Arizona put Rosen in:

 

*  BOTH QB's were placed in offenses that were historically terrible.  The ONLY reason some say Rosen had a worse O-line is that they ignore the fact that Allen bailed last year's O-line out with his athleticism - which is greatly superior to Rosens.  You put Rosen behind last years Bill's O-line and he looks just as bad.

 

*  Rosen actually had a better receiver group.  Fitzgerald is a solid vet and unselfish class act.  He alone elevated the Card's receivers over anything the Bill's fielded last year.

 

*  And let's not forget just how badly the Bill's mismanaged Allen's rookie training camp & preseason.  They gave him very few snaps with the first team and then declared that Peterman would be the starter.  This lasted ONE FREAKING WEEK.  After that they threw Allen to the wolves.  That he survived and by the end of the season had started to thrive is why he is the guy for us.

 

*  And let's not forget that going into the season the Bills had done NOTHING to ease Allen into the league.  Allen did not benefit from having an experienced QB in the QB room and his Offensive Coordinator was brand new to the Bills.

 

Allen succeeded his rookie year IN SPITE of the Bills.  It's that simple. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by CincyBillsFan

[TwistofFate]

19 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

There it is...again and again. Poor J.R....was put in a bad situation. Tell me, aren’t most top 10 QB’s drafted put on bad teams? Baker, Darnold and Allen were all drafted by bad teams. How is it that the Cards were any different? Perhaps your analysis was off? You and the hundreds of experts who whiffed on their “Most NFL Ready” Rosen moniker. NFL Ready QB’s don’t make excuses for weaknesses in their selected team...they lead, compete, and garner respect of their teammates (Like Fitz, like Darnold, like Allen). They overcome weaknesses in the O line (like Allen did as a rookie). They work with the receivers they had (Rosen had Larry Fitzgerald...Allen had Foster). Stop making excuses for your terrible pre-draft analysis and admit you simply took the “experts” narrative which has proven to be sadly mistaken. 

Ummmm, how many were traded after their first year??? 

 

The experts analysis has nothing to do with it. 

 

Everyone claims Rosen was surrounded by better talent....where?   Last time I checked, the Cardinals had 5 wins this year.  Where's all that great supporting cast at? 

 

Rosen had nearly identical stats as Allen their rookie season.  Allen was fortunate enough to be on a team that was building around him and on the incline.

 

Rosen was put in two terrible situations in a row, with no commitment to him or his growth. 

 

It has nothing to do with his ability and everything to do with his situation.  It's completely foolish to think otherwise. 

 

Did they build around him?   Did they commit to him?  Did they coach him up or bench him to save face?  He was afforded none of the luxuries Allen had the privilege of.  That's a fact. 

[TwistofFate]

28 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

You lost me at the stat thing.  When you watch Rosen & Allen play there's a world of difference that stats don't reflect.  Keep relying on stats & you'll never understand a game that needs to be seen to be understood.  That's why the coaches & players review film instead of burying their heads in a bunch of stat sheets.  

 

After seeing film of Rosen vs NFL talent, there was very little demand for Rosen in the trade market, reflected by the fact Miami traded down before trading for Rosen knowing that they were getting back a similar pick, one year removed, to the pick they were giving up for Rosen, making the trade low-risk.  

 

Rosen has pocketed money for a job he is not qualified to have.  If getting millions for lack of production is getting the shaft, you & I have a different opinion on what that means.  

 

The asking price for Rosen was too high.   There was plenty of interest. 

 

No one wants to dump high draft picks near the draft when their boards are figured out. 

 

Rosen is a much more talented passer then you let on. There is plenty of film to show it. 

 

Not qualified to have a job??  LMFAO. 

 

I can't even with you.... 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

The Dolphins recently made a major mistake, as it turned out, with Tannehill.  Wonder if they'll be a bit gun shy.  With more experience and a decent supporting cast, Rosen can play

[Don Otreply]

He will be fed to piranhas at the end of the upcoming season, and we shall no longer have reason to discuss his functionality as a NFL QB. 

Good, now that’s out of the way...

 

Go Bills!!!

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

38 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

The asking price for Rosen was too high.   There was plenty of interest. 

 

No one wants to dump high draft picks near the draft when their boards are figured out. 

 

Rosen is a much more talented passer then you let on. There is plenty of film to show it. 

 

Not qualified to have a job??  LMFAO. 

 

I can't even with you.... 

 

Somebody is still butt hurt over the draft.  Guess what, the Rosen One will never be a Bill. lol lol lol

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Albany,n.y. said:

You lost me at the stat thing.  When you watch Rosen & Allen play there's a world of difference that stats don't reflect.  Keep relying on stats & you'll never understand a game that needs to be seen to be understood.  That's why the coaches & players review film instead of burying their heads in a bunch of stat sheets.  

 

After seeing film of Rosen vs NFL talent, there was very little demand for Rosen in the trade market, reflected by the fact Miami traded down before trading for Rosen knowing that they were getting back a similar pick, one year removed, to the pick they were giving up for Rosen, making the trade low-risk.  

 

Rosen has pocketed money for a job he is not qualified to have.  If getting millions for lack of production is getting the shaft, you & I have a different opinion on what that means.  

 

 

I think we've found where wrong Josh went.

[TwistofFate]

13 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Somebody is still butt hurt over the draft.  Guess what, the Rosen One will never be a Bill. lol lol lol

I don't care that he's not a Bill, it is what it is.  What's done is done. 

 

I think it's just silly to make statements like Rosen isnt qualified to play in the NFL.  Or...to act like him being traded to another team after a rookie campaign had anything to do with his performance and nothing to do with fact the staff that drafted him was fired and the new staff went a completely different direction at the position. 

 

His entire caeer thus far has been terribly mis-managed and he hasn't been put in any kind of situation to succeed. 

 

That's what's happened to him. 

 

The only Qbs from that class that haven't been mismanaged are Allen and Jackson.  

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

I mean I guess there was a heated debate about which Josh to take but it’s kinda pathetic how happy some people are about the Rosen situation. The league is better with more good qbs.  More qbs are ruined than made.  There is not a 1st or 2nd year qb who would have succeed in his situations.  Those were pathetic situations to put a guy in.  By comparison, Allen looks like he raised a perfect family while Rosen raised by the Manson family.  He may end up just sucking but if you are saying that because of those situations, you just want to be right because you don’t like that some Bills fans wanted him or you don’t like his politics. 
 

he’s our rival now but I hope he goes to a good franchise because it’s embarrassing the situations he’s been in. I would have the said the same thing for any rookie who went through what he has. 

4 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

I don't care that he's not a Bill, it is what it is.  What's done is done. 

 

I think it's just silly to make statements like Rosen isnt qualified to play in the NFL.  Or...to act like him being traded to another team after a rookie campaign had anything to do with his performance and nothing to do with fact the staff that drafted him was fired and the new staff went a completely different direction at the position. 

 

His entire caeer thus far has been terribly mis-managed and he hasn't been put in any kind of situation to succeed. 

 

That's what's happened to him. 

 

The only Qbs from that class that haven't been mismanaged are Allen and Jackson.  

 

 

Well said, I think the qb and receiver situation that Allen had as a rookie was pretty dumb but he has had the luxury of a top 3 defense both years.  The team also committed to building the o line around him and got him some weapons.  It’s so weird to say but we finally gave a young qb a non dysfunctional situation to grow in.  That’s the exact opposite of what Rosen has had.  It’s like out of a textbook of how to ruin a young quarterback.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

I don't care that he's not a Bill, it is what it is.  What's done is done. 

 

I think it's just silly to make statements like Rosen isnt qualified to play in the NFL.  Or...to act like him being traded to another team after a rookie campaign had anything to do with his performance and nothing to do with fact the staff that drafted him was fired and the new staff went a completely different direction at the position. 

 

His entire caeer thus far has been terribly mis-managed and he hasn't been put in any kind of situation to succeed. 

 

That's what's happened to him. 

 

The only Qbs from that class that haven't been mismanaged are Allen and Jackson.  

 

 

 

No, I finally figured you out.  You wanted Rosen so bad (because you assessed and stated he was the best QB in the draft) and for probably personal reasons, that you have an agenda to trash Allen because you didn't get what you want.  This is the primary reason for your disdain towards Allen whether you will admit it or not.  Your fervent defense of Rosen and obsessive critique of Allen only proves this point.  

Edited January 18, 2020 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

I don't care that he's not a Bill, it is what it is.  What's done is done. 

 

I think it's just silly to make statements like Rosen isnt qualified to play in the NFL.  Or...to act like him being traded to another team after a rookie campaign had anything to do with his performance and nothing to do with fact the staff that drafted him was fired and the new staff went a completely different direction at the position. 

 

His entire caeer thus far has been terribly mis-managed and he hasn't been put in any kind of situation to succeed. 

 

That's what's happened to him. 

 

The only Qbs from that class that haven't been mismanaged are Allen and Jackson.  

 

 

OK, he's as qualified to play in the NFL as all the other recent 1st round busts who got to hang on a few years past their expiration dates because at one time they were good in college.  

He was traded for pennies on the dollar because the other NFL teams realized the odds are he's a bust after watching film of him as a rookie.  The closest thing in terms of QB devaluation in recent years was GB cutting 2nd rounder Brian Brohm after 1 season & the Bills eventually signing him off GB's practice squad months after he cleared waivers.

Back when the Bills signed Brohm there were plenty of guys like you who said "I saw him play in college" and others saying "he was projected as a high 1st rounder" and proclaimed him to be a steal for the Bills.  I warned them that QBs are treated like gold among GMs and for any prospect to flame out that quickly where you're getting him for pennies on the dollar is a very bad sign.  They all know now they were wrong about Brohm as you are about Rosen.  

Face it, once they have NFL film on these QBs, NFL GMs by their actions know more than any of us on a message board.  You haven't faced the fact that no matter how he was treated, Rosen was always going to bust.  Almost every GM has that figured out by now.  

Edited January 18, 2020 by Albany,n.y.

[C.Biscuit97]

46 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

No, I finally figured you out.  You wanted Rosen so bad (because you assessed and stated he was the best QB in the draft) and for probably personal reasons, that you have an agenda to trash Allen because you didn't get what you want.  This is the primary reason for your disdain towards Allen whether you will admit it or not.  Your fervent defense of Rosen and obsessive critique of Allen only proves this point.  

While that could be true, there are other factors.  If Rosen and Allen got switched, maybe both of their careers are different.  They had very similar passing numbers their rookie years.  Allen didn’t have his OC fired 4 games into the season.  
 

it’s also ok to doubt certain things with Allen.  He has shown some good things but he is far from completely established.  But as of right, clearly he is having the better career.  But I don’t think any reasonable person can argue that he hasn’t been in a much, much better situation to succeed than Rosen.  

[Teddy KGB]

Is twistoffate 26 reincarnated? 

[frostbitmic]

5 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...LMAO....best he'll do is "ball boy".....and complain about the other 9 assigned before him..............

I'll disagree my friend ... The Daughter of the Pegula's will make them both stars on the mixed double set ... He's just in the wrong sport at the moment.

 

He'll get help ... Just watch . ?

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

48 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

While that could be true, there are other factors.  If Rosen and Allen got switched, maybe both of their careers are different.  They had very similar passing numbers their rookie years.  Allen didn’t have his OC fired 4 games into the season.  
 

it’s also ok to doubt certain things with Allen.  He has shown some good things but he is far from completely established.  But as of right, clearly he is having the better career.  But I don’t think any reasonable person can argue that he hasn’t been in a much, much better situation to succeed than Rosen.  

 

Of course it's okay to doubt certain things about Allen or any other player on this team for that matter.  That's not my point.  My point oriented at ToF was how he is so obsessed with crucifying Allen regardless and now I (we) know why.  He's still upset about the draft and will never accept Allen as the Bills QB.  

[TwistofFate]

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

No, I finally figured you out.  You wanted Rosen so bad (because you assessed and stated he was the best QB in the draft) and for probably personal reasons, that you have an agenda to trash Allen because you didn't get what you want.  This is the primary reason for your disdain towards Allen whether you will admit it or not.  Your fervent defense of Rosen and obsessive critique of Allen only proves this point.  

My disdain for Allen comes at his lack of passing performance given the fact that he has had tools put all around him yet continues to not make any meaningful leap in production.  It has absolutely nothing to do with Rosen. Rosen doesn't play for the Bills, Allen does. 

 

And for your information, Mahomes is the Qb I wanted this organization to draft. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, TwistofFate said:

My disdain for Allen comes at his lack of passing performance given the fact that he has had tools put all around him yet continues to not make any meaningful leap in production.  It has absolutely nothing to do with Rosen. Rosen doesn't play for the Bills, Allen does. 

 

And for your information, Mahomes is the Qb I wanted this organization to draft. 

 

Yet here you are defending Rosen like the second coming.  You have a personal vendetta against Allen period.  

[C.Biscuit97]

46 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Yet here you are defending Rosen like the second coming.  You have a personal vendetta against Allen period.  

I haven’t read through the whole thread but is it really defending Rosen like the second coming by pointing out how awful he has been handled?  I would think the same thing if it was Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, Jackson, Darnold, etc.  Arizona and Miami put on a clinic on how not to develop a qb.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

No, I finally figured you out.  You wanted Rosen so bad (because you assessed and stated he was the best QB in the draft) and for probably personal reasons, that you have an agenda to trash Allen because you didn't get what you want.  This is the primary reason for your disdain towards Allen whether you will admit it or not.  Your fervent defense of Rosen and obsessive critique of Allen only proves this point.  

 

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Yet here you are defending Rosen like the second coming.  You have a personal vendetta against Allen period.  

 

I'd kind of hate to have to lock the thread I started to discuss Rosen's possible future because it's been turned into Yet Another Allen Campaign.

 

 

[TwistofFate]

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Yet here you are defending Rosen like the second coming.  You have a personal vendetta against Allen period.  

lol, how can I have a personal vendetta against someone I don't even know? 

 

It's not that hard to defend Rosen, anyone with a single shred of common sense can see his situation is far less than optimal. 

 

And....the whole point of this thread is to discuss Rosen....

 

 

"Fitz gives us the best chance to win. It's easy for people to sit and say, 'You should do this or that, or this or that.' I don't think those same people will stand in front of that group and say, 'This is in the best interest of the team, for us to win this week,'" Flores said. "That's no knock on Josh. Maybe you think that's in the best interest, but you're not in front of this team every day. You're not in the trenches and a lot of people aren't."

Flores believes he could lose the respect of his locker room by telling his players Rosen gives them the best chance to win instead of Fitzpatrick.

 

Rosen has been dealt a bad hand since being drafted No. 10 overall by Arizona in 2018: He has been on two rebuilding teams with constant change, subpar offensive lines and complex schemes -- and each has had an escape plan if it didn't go well with him. Rosen said he doesn't spend much time wishing he could have landed in a more stable situation, such as those of fellow 2018 quarterbacks Lamar Jackson (Baltimore Ravens) and Josh Allen (Buffalo Bills).

 

Its clear to see by anyone without bias. 

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/miami-dolphins/post/_/id/30317/planning-ahead-josh-rosens-future-dolphins-2020-qb-picture

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan
replace google link with actual link

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Rosen has been dealt a bad hand since being drafted No. 10 overall by Arizona in 2018: He has been on two rebuilding teams with constant change, subpar offensive lines and complex schemes -- and each has had an escape plan if it didn't go well with him. Rosen said he doesn't spend much time wishing he could have landed in a more stable situation, such as those of fellow 2018 quarterbacks Lamar Jackson (Baltimore Ravens) and Josh Allen (Buffalo Bills).

 

Its clear to see by anyone without bias. 

https://www.espn.com/blog/miami-dolphins/post/_/id/30317/planning-ahead-josh-rosens-future-dolphins-2020-qb-picture

 

Regarding the link - didn't Tua Tagovailoa say he'd return to Alabama next year?  Did he declare for the draft instead?

 

Edit: OK, I guess he did

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001094892/article/alabama-qb-tua-tagovailoa-declares-for-2020-nfl-draft

[Teddy KGB]

15 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

 

 

It's not that hard to defend Rosen, anyone with a single shred of common sense can see his situation is far less than optimal. 

 

 

Seems pretty hard.    The guy is 2-2 at flaming out for 2 different teams.   
 

Poor man’s Jeff George. 

 

[Putin]

6 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

I don't care that he's not a Bill, it is what it is.  What's done is done. 

 

I think it's just silly to make statements like Rosen isnt qualified to play in the NFL.  Or...to act like him being traded to another team after a rookie campaign had anything to do with his performance and nothing to do with fact the staff that drafted him was fired and the new staff went a completely different direction at the position. 

 

His entire caeer thus far has been terribly mis-managed and he hasn't been put in any kind of situation to succeed. 

 

That's what's happened to him. 

 

The only Qbs from that class that haven't been mismanaged are Allen and Jackson.  

 

 

Dolphins definitely mismanaged the first overall pick by not letting  Rosen play the full season 

[TwistofFate]

2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Seems pretty hard.    The guy is 2-2 at flaming out for 2 different teams.   
 

Poor man’s Jeff George. 

 

So a top 10 pick flames out after starting 14 games???  On two different teams? 

 

Man, the hypocrisy on this board is insane! 

[Teddy KGB]

34 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

So a top 10 pick flames out after starting 14 games???  On two different teams? 

 

Man, the hypocrisy on this board is insane! 

omg you are 26 corner???

[Bing Bong]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Well said, I think the qb and receiver situation that Allen had as a rookie was pretty dumb but he has had the luxury of a top 3 defense both years.  The team also committed to building the o line around him and got him some weapons.  It’s so weird to say but we finally gave a young qb a non dysfunctional situation to grow in.  That’s the exact opposite of what Rosen has had.  It’s like out of a textbook of how to ruin a young quarterback.

The defense alone was a world of difference between the Cards and Bills. One QB had to force the issue with a bad supporting caste, the other could live to see another possession... Also with a bad supporting caste. Arizona was a whole nother world of rookie quarterback hell compared to Buffalo... AND WE SHOULD CONSIDER THAT A GOOD THING

 

people here acting like they wanted JA's rookie year to suck as much as Rosen's to prove he's tougher or something.

 

I don't understand our infatuation with the other quarterbacks in Josh Allen's draft class. Them being good or flat out sucking makes no difference to JA's performance. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[folz]

I'm sure most of this has already been said, but the thing is no one can say with certainty right now whether Rosen can or can't develop into a starting QB in this league.

 

Let me state first, I wanted Darnold or Allen in the draft and I would have been happy with Mayfield too. The only two I didn't want were Rosen and Jackson. Rosen based on the personality/likability issues raised at draft time (not his play) and Jackson because I was worried that he wasn't a good enough passer. I am thrilled the Bills went with Allen. I think he was the perfect fit for Buffalo and wouldn't trade him for any of the other guys.

 

But there is no way that anyone, except for maybe the Miami staff, can properly evaluate Josh Rosen at this point. He gets drafted by a stripped-down Arizona team with a historically bad offensive line and a first-year head coach (who wouldn't even get a  second year). There was no stability at all in the team or the organization and no weapons (except an aging Fitzgerald). That was not a good situation for developing a QB. The whole team was not just devoid of talent, but was also learning a new playbook, getting used to new coaches, etc, like Josh. 

 

Then he (a top 10 draft pick) is traded away after just one season. An unprecedented move in the league. That couldn't have helped his confidence. And the team he is traded to is in the midst of an historic purge of talent and full-on rebuild mode. And he has to once again get to know an entirely different playbook, teammates, coaches, and city. None of the other four QBs drafted with Rosen had to do all four of those things. Darnold is the only other one that had to do even two of those things. And Rosen, who apparently doesn't have the warmest of personalities, has to try to win a team over against one of the most loved QBs (personality-wise) in the league in Fitz? And he only had 3 starts in Miami. That may be because he wasn't ready, but under his circumstances, it isn't surprising that he wasn't ready. Plus, you can't extract his long-term potential from those three games.

 

It is absolutely ridiculous to think a QB could develop and be good under those circumstances. Josh Allen, under much better circumstances (except for the O-line and WR talent of last year), has played 28 games and people still say he needs more time before a complete evaluation can be made on him (which is true). Well Rosen has only had 16 starts with two really bad teams having to start all over from scratch in year two. How can anyone give him a fair evaluation right now.

 

I'll just add one stat into the conversation (as far as offensive line play is concerned---understanding that some sacks are on the QB, not the O-line, but...), Rosen has been sacked once every 8.2 attempts. In comparison, Josh Allen had been sacked once every 11.8 attempts, Darnold has been sacked once every 13.5 attempts, and Mayfield has been sacked once every 15.7 attempts. I don't know if Rosen could have or still can become a good QB or not in the right situation, but to evaluate him as terrible at this point seems unfair to me.

 

 

 

As to the OP's original question, I would say it comes down to how the Miami staff feels about him. The hiring of Chan Gailey makes me think that they plan to at least start next season with Fitz at QB. Meaning they still don't think Rosen will be ready at the start of next season or don't believe in him at all.

 

The next thought is will Miami draft a QB in the first round this year. It looks like Tua will be available to them at 5. He seems to be the guy they have wanted all along. So, I say Miami does draft Tua, but plans to start Fitz until Tua is healthy and has developed enough to take over the reigns (be that in year one or year two). If they thought somewhat highly of Rosen (even if they think he needs a lot of work still) maybe you keep him as a third developmental project. Wouldn't be bad having two top-10 drafted QBs to develop, to hedge your bets. But the way NFL rosters are now, it is tough to keep three QBs. So, ultimately, I think Miami will look to trade Rosen again (unless they can't secure a QB they want in the draft, in which case he probably would get one more year in Miami).

 

And just as Arizona did not get a return on their investment, I don't think Miami gets as much as they traded for him. I don't think Rosen finds a starting spot next year, as most teams right now either have their QB, are grooming one, or will draft one. But I could see a team pick him up just to take a looksie, to see if they think they could develop him and hope in the meantime that he might be good enough as their number two. I could see teams like New England, Pittsburgh, Indy, or the Chargers taking a look. Teams that have an older QB, who will be in the QB market soon, so why not take a look and see if you can basically get a guy for pennies on the dollar (that is if any of them liked him coming out of the draft). Or maybe Indy if they aren't completely sold on Jacoby as their starter. Bring Rosen in as competition. I bet Frank could get the best out of him. No doubt someone will take a look, but Rosen will probably have to prove that he can at least be a decent backup right now, in order to eventually get another shot at being a starter. I think if he goes to a stable organization and can win a backup job, he'll get another shot some day and at worst will be able to hang around the league for a while as a backup. But if he goes to another bad situation, I could see him being out of the league by the end of his rookie deal.

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by folz

[White Linen]

On 1/16/2020 at 5:49 PM, Nextmanup said:

Couldn't disagree more with the "statue" concept.

 

A QB's ability to read a defense and accurately deliver the ball through the air will always keep him in the league and very successfully, too, regardless of running ability. 

 

All the athleticism in the world won't overcome an inability to that, and the QBs who get by on athleticism more than passing are always going to be on the edge of losing their starting job.

 

Lamar Jackson is a great example...check back in with his career in a couple of years.  It may not be where you think it's going to be, based on his first year.

 

 

 

Disagreeing that 2 + 2= 4 is your prerogative.

[BUFFALOKIE]

On 1/16/2020 at 6:05 PM, Blue on Blue said:

Maybe it was the "F*%k Trump" hat. 

 

Kaepernick also tried to tussle with Orange Man; last seen he was somewhere in Georgia on a high school field, throwing make-believe passes in his shorts.

THAT was the ONLY thing I liked about Rosen!