Josh Allen article

[JaCrispy]

46 minutes ago, SCBills said:

One fan-view positive to take is that Josh Allen did gain a level of respect this year.  
 

It’s not “that dude is a franchise QB”..

 

Its more along the lines of “that dude is ridiculously talented but also kind of a crackhead”....

 

....but, hey, that’s better than “completion percentage derrrr, doesn’t belong in the league” points of view we had to deal with. 
 

 

Lol Allen’s new nickname should be “Crackhead” ????

[Buffbills716]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Whether the play or pattern should have been called is a separate issue.  Watch the play.  It was not a ridiculous throw.  It was a throw to a guy who had position and just needs to time his jump better for a big completion.  Quit looking for false reasons to criticize the QB.

It was thrown to a man in double coverage.  Quit trying to gloss over his mistakes!

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Buffbills716 said:

It was thrown to a man in double coverage.  Quit trying to gloss over his mistakes!

And DiMarco had position and should have caught it.  Quit trying to deny what you saw.

 

 

[Buffbills716]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

And DiMarco had position and should have caught it.  Quit trying to deny what you saw.

 

 

We can agree to disagree.  I just wish the throw was to a WR, not 50 yards down the field in double coverage.  If the throw had been to Duke, your argument may have merit, but to a guy who averages 6.5 catches per season?

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Buffbills716 said:

We can agree to disagree.  I just wish the throw was to a WR, not 50 yards down the field in double coverage.  If the throw had been to Duke, your argument may have merit, but to a guy who averages 6.5 catches per season?

There just wasn’t anyone open so throw it downfield and hope he makes a play.  He doesn’t it’s like a punt anyway.  He jumps a fraction of a second later it’s a completion.  So I don’t see why it should be criticized so heavily.

[Sweats]

Playing free jazz on a kazoo........pretty much sums up our year.

[Bob in STL]

We have all seen Marino, Elway, Kelly, Farve, Manning, Brees, Brady throw jump balls to men on double coverage.  If DMarco jumps at the right time it’s a great play.  Still, a very questionable call and play.  
 

Josh will benefit from better players around him.  He does not have a #1 WR, we saw that yesterday.   Singletary looks like a nice player but we will be better off if he is part of a tandem with a fresh and bruising power back.   Knox is a work in progress.  The OL has graduated to average and can benefit from better tackles.  
 

Josh still has a lot to learn but he does have a great set of physical tools and a great attitude.   That said I have never witnessed a playoff game with as much chaotic play and dare I say panic as I saw with Allen.  He got more erratic as the game went on.  Hopefully this is a turning point in the right direction for him.  

[BananaB]

2 minutes ago, Buffbills716 said:

We can agree to disagree.  I just wish the throw was to a WR, not 50 yards down the field in double coverage.  If the throw had been to Duke, your argument may have merit, but to a guy who averages 6.5 catches per season?

So what would you say if he forced it to one of the other WRs who were covered and running running shallower routes and had that pass get picked off? Dimarco had position and never made the play on the ball. Even if it did get picked off 50 yards down field  it isn’t much difference then a punt. 

[Beast]

2 hours ago, Kemp said:

Josh Allen gets one more season to prove he's a franchise QB. 

 

Panicking in the biggest moments is not encouraging. 

 

Getting zero TDs against a poor D is not encouraging. 

 

All will be forgotten if next season is much better. If not, dump him.

 

Actually, he will probably get longer than just next season.

 

Deservedly so, I might add.

[rayray808]

Sarcasm people... this dude is ripping Josh not praising him 

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, Kemp said:

Josh Allen gets one more season to prove he's a franchise QB. 

 

Panicking in the biggest moments is not encouraging. 

 

Getting zero TDs against a poor D is not encouraging. 

 

All will be forgotten if next season is much better. If not, dump him.

 

Yeah, no. He's a long term project. You either go all in or not at all. If you cut him you absolutely know he'll get a second chance with another team and you wiull be kicking yourself.

 

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

It was a funny take and had moments of truth.  But it made me think of something else - are the Bills, Deboll & McD screwing Josh Allen up?

 

While the writer of this article was being a smart a## he was also noting something that we Bills fans are already aware of - Allen makes jaw dropping plays and plays QB with a creativity seldom seen in the NFL. 

 

Last year Lamar Jackson was booed at home as he had a terrible game in the playoff against San Diego.  The "new" offense  the ravens were trying to run seemed to implode in the playoffs.  Who watching that game, including most of the 65,000 people in the stadium, weren't calling for Joe Flaco?  But the Ravens in the off season doubled down on their crazy offense and put even more pieces around Jackson to make it happen.  The result was there for all to see.

 

Maybe what the Bills need to do is treat Allen like the Ravens treat Jackson - as an unconventional talent that could redefine how the QB position is played.  Change the offense to FOCUS on and FEATURE the wild stuff that Allen does.  Surround Allen with equally creative and wacky PLAY MAKERS.  On this current offense ONLY Singleterry would fit the kind of skill player Allen should have around him.  Guys like SF's Kittle or Carolina's McCaffrey would thrive in such an environment. 

 

Just some food for thought and I hope Daboll, Bean & McD do a little out of the box thinking this off season.  Or we can stick with splitting Gore & DeMarco out wide in an empty backfield.  You know a play design that deprives Allen of extra protection while simultaneously removing 40% of the threat the spread out "play makers" are supposed to represent?

 

 

 

I agree with doubling down. But it's Josh Allen's passing that needs to be developed. I want him running less, not more. He has the ability to make great throws, let's surround him by guys that get open and catch the ball. He can be a great passer once things slow down a bit more for him and he continues to mature. His brain has to grow into his body. 

[MattM]

What gives me great hope about Josh is the realization that he’s really only played 2 years of football against high competition, and one of those years he was (a) not the starter going into the year and thus shared training camp reps with 2 others and (b) was hurt for a part of that year.  Take Watson for a counter example.  He played at Clemson against the ACC and teams like Alabama in huge games for several years before the NFL.

 

i think Josh made big strides his year, and if he makes similar strides next year, watch out.....

[WhoTom]

Josh reminds me so much of Favre - energetic, playful, and often reckless. His gunslinger mentality wins a lot of games, but once in a while he does something that makes you say, "WTF?" He seems more humble than Favre, however, which gives me hope that he'll tame that instinct a bit - but not too much.

 

Yeah, the article was sarcastic and the writer was ripping on Josh, but you've gotta admit, that was one hell of an entertaining game. We're bummed about the outcome, but if Ford doesn't get called for the block and we win in OT, it's a whole different narrative today.

[Buffbills716]

22 minutes ago, BananaB said:

So what would you say if he forced it to one of the other WRs who were covered and running running shallower routes and had that pass get picked off? Dimarco had position and never made the play on the ball. Even if it did get picked off 50 yards down field  it isn’t much difference then a punt. 

He never should have thrown a "Hail Mary"-type pass to a double-covered fullback/WR in the first place.  My point is that if a QB is going to do that, throwing to a taller WR is the better call.  

[egd]

3 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Didn't read it after I saw this, if true...and I assume it is. Calling a guy who is obviously bright, and scored a 37 on the Wonderlic is a disqualifier for me.

 

37 is not that good. Ryan Fitzpatrick had a 48.

[Buffbills716]

22 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Yeah, no. He's a long term project. You either go all in or not at all. If you cut him you absolutely know he'll get a second chance with another team and you wiull be kicking yourself.

 

 

I agree with doubling down. But it's Josh Allen's passing that needs to be developed. I want him running less, not more. He has the ability to make great throws, let's surround him by guys that get open and catch the ball. He can be a great passer once things slow down a bit more for him and he continues to mature. His brain has to grow into his body. 

I am getting tired of long-term projects.  Allen smells, tastes, feels like a JP/EJ.  I give him one more year, then cut the cord.

[Motorin']

Just now, Buffbills716 said:

I am getting tired of long-term projects.  Allen smells, tastes, feels like a JP/EJ.  I give him one more year, then cut the cord.

 

Let us know when you cut him. 

[Buffbills716]

Just now, Motorin' said:

 

Let us know when you cut him. 

After three years, it won't be me, but the Bills.  He needs a decent OC if he ever hopes to take it to the next level.

[Motorin']

1 minute ago, Buffbills716 said:

After three years, it won't be me, but the Bills.  He needs a decent OC if he ever hopes to take it to the next level.

They should hire Gregg Williams as HC if the Bills don't make it back to the playoffs next year. 

[Buffbills716]

Just now, Motorin' said:

They should hire Gregg Williams as HC if the Bills don't make it back to the playoffs next year. 

Or keep Daboll.  I think the Bills should keep the playbook simple for Allen (i.e., get rid of Daboll) and get him some talent to support him.  If they do that, and I we are still screwing around with field goals/missed opportunities instead of TDs, then yes, cut the cord.

[JaCrispy]

14 minutes ago, egd said:

 

37 is not that good. Ryan Fitzpatrick had a 48.

Josh is smart on paper, no doubt...but it’s his “in game” football IQ that seems low imo...

Edited January 5, 2020 by JaCrispy

[HalftimeAdjustment]

Didn't he try to jump over someone near the end of the game too?

[RobbRiddicksTDLeap]

1 minute ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

Didn't he try to jump over someone near the end of the game too?

Yes, and he almost had it too. 
 

The kid was trying to make a play. At least he held onto the ball. That’s promising. 
 

He has a lot of flaws, but he’s got guts. You mix that with experience and the physical tools, and gee whiz we are in for a treat. 
 

There is not a person among us, who in their most panicked professional moment, not made a mistake that will haunt us forever. Most of us get second chances and get to learn from them. Josh Allen has given zero reason to believe he is not capable of the same. 

[Mickey]

6 hours ago, NoSaint said:

I hope we never see him bail backwards on a blitz on the edge of fg range, lateral a ball randomly, or heave it to a FB in double coverage- and those are just the exceptionally bizarre choices.

He has made a ton of plays all season doing the exact same things. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. And it wasn't a random lateral, he was trying to get it to Knox so we could maybe, you know, score points and win the game. I remember seeing Flutie do the same thing only successfully. It's easy to critique choices after the results are in. If he gets it to Knox, he is a genius. If he pulls off a houdini like escape on the blitz as he has done many times before, we'd all be applauding. Despite what anyone thinks of his play which was certainly not perfect, he got us to OT in a desperate situation at the end of regulation and he had us in position for a game winning FG until that ridiculous call on Ford.  

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said:

Oh boy. 
 

You should read it. It’s actually pretty funny, and if you can’t laugh at how goofy some of his plays from this game were, then you might be taking “the game” a little bit too serious. 
 

The article is a light hearted look at the doltish things our QB does. 

You're right.   The article is great.   Really funny, but it's clear that the author also appreciates Josh's talents.  

4 hours ago, egd said:

 

37 is not that good. Ryan Fitzpatrick had a 48.

37 is better than about 90% of all NFL QBs.   

[Meatloaf63]

7 hours ago, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said:

Maybe by some fans, but for the most part, if they win the game no one would be complaining. If they win the game, that goofy lateral is “dont ever do that again” kind of a moment. If they win the game, that horrid 4th and 27 is a moment when we all willfully forget how we got there as fan base and a team. 
 

There’s no greater cause of amnesia in sports, than success. 

The 4th and 27 is nothing more than a reminder of how inept the o line still is...

4 hours ago, Buffbills716 said:

He never should have thrown a "Hail Mary"-type pass to a double-covered fullback/WR in the first place.  My point is that if a QB is going to do that, throwing to a taller WR is the better call.  

Well sure it is, but for some reason our brilliant OC thinks a slow plodding fullback is the best option on that play?

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, Buffbills716 said:

I am getting tired of long-term projects.  Allen smells, tastes, feels like a JP/EJ.  I give him one more year, then cut the cord.

Oh, my heavens.  

 

In JP's third year in Buffalo, he had a passer rating of 85 and never got close again.  He went 7-9 in that season and had only 3 other wins in his career.  

 

In EJ's second season in Buffalo he had a passer rating of 80 and never got close again.  

 

After his second season in Buffalo, Josh Allen improved to 85 went 10-6 and went to the playoffs.   Allen runs better than both, throws better than both and already has more career wins than both.   

 

Not sure what you're looking at.  

3 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

The 4th and 27 is nothing more than a reminder of how inept the o line still is...

Well sure it is, but for some reason our brilliant OC thinks a slow plodding fullback is the best option on that play?

 

You're right about the o line. 

 

The throw to DiMarco was on Allen, not Daboll.  

[Kemp]

5 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Yeah. If only he put balls on the money that weren’t dropped.

 

Yeah, dropped balls was a big problem, yesterday, but not by the receivers.. 

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The throw to DiMarco was on Allen, not Daboll.  

The other deep route was being run by none other than...Lee Smith. Are we blaming Allen for bad play design? There was nowhere to go with that pass.

[y2zipper]

8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Oh, my heavens.  

 

In JP's third year in Buffalo, he had a passer rating of 85 and never got close again.  He went 7-9 in that season and had only 3 other wins in his career.  

 

In EJ's second season in Buffalo he had a passer rating of 80 and never got close again.  

 

After his second season in Buffalo, Josh Allen improved to 85 went 10-6 and went to the playoffs.   Allen runs better than both, throws better than both and already has more career wins than both.   

 

Allen is definitely better as a prospect than EJ or Losman were, but I agree that in a year we are definitely going to know what we have at the position and that it's sufficient time to bring in competition if we don't see league average passing efficiency or better. We play in an era where players that make bad decisions or have a gunslinger mentality don't succeed because passing efficiency is king. To make it clear, Josh should be the starter next year and I will think he will get there, but NFL development has a shelf life because that's how rookie scale contracts work.

 

I think the key to developing Allen as a passer is to find something he can do consistently as a passer and do it a lot. I don't know what that is yet. Just looking statistically, Josh has 9 games below the eating average and 8 games above it in 17 starts this year and the offense varies wildly like his play does.

 

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, y2zipper said:

 

Allen is definitely better as a prospect than EJ or Losman were, but I agree that in a year we are definitely going to know what we have at the position and that it's sufficient time to bring in competition if we don't see league average passing efficiency or better. We play in an era where players that make bad decisions or have a gunslinger mentality don't succeed because passing efficiency is king. To make it clear, Josh should be the starter next year and I will think he will get there, but NFL development has a shelf life because that's how rookie scale contracts work.

 

I think the key to developing Allen as a passer is to find something he can do consistently as a passer and do it a lot. I don't know what that is yet. Just looking statistically, Josh has 9 games below the eating average and 8 games above it in 17 starts this year and the offense varies wildly like his play does.

 

I agree that if Allen doesn't improve next season over this season, there will be doubts.   I was reacting to the notion that he isn't showing more that EJ or JP showed.   That's ridiculous.  He runs better, he passes better, he leads better.   

 

My objective for this season was to get within the top 20 in passer rating.   He finished 24th, and say what you will about the receivers and the oline, Allen didn't do as well as I hoped.   My objective for next year, going into this season, was top 10.   That's going to require a big leap, but I don't mind if he doesn't get there.   The objective for 2019 was a meaningful improvement over 2018, and we got that.   If we see a meaningful improvement again in 2020, I'm good.  

 

 

[Meatloaf63]

37 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Oh, my heavens.  

 

In JP's third year in Buffalo, he had a passer rating of 85 and never got close again.  He went 7-9 in that season and had only 3 other wins in his career.  

 

In EJ's second season in Buffalo he had a passer rating of 80 and never got close again.  

 

After his second season in Buffalo, Josh Allen improved to 85 went 10-6 and went to the playoffs.   Allen runs better than both, throws better than both and already has more career wins than both.   

 

Not sure what you're looking at.  

 

You're right about the o line. 

 

The throw to DiMarco was on Allen, not Daboll.  

He didn’t have a better option and if DiMarco doesn’t jump a step too soon, he has a good chance of catching it.  A Qb in that situation can’t question what open receiver he is throwing too, he has to trust them to make the catch.  And I say it’s ok Daboll for having him on the field and calling that play...

[familykwi]

8 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Didn't read it after I saw this, if true...and I assume it is. Calling a guy who is obviously bright, and scored a 37 on the Wonderlic is a disqualifier for me.

Lighten up Francis.  It's parody. 

If you consider that's Josh became a player to watch after the hurdle in Minnesota last year (a maneuver he somewhat replicated along the sideline yesterday with lesser success), then you have to admit this article is actually on point.

 

Josh is definitely not boring.

[3rdand12]

8 hours ago, Kemp said:

Josh Allen gets one more season to prove he's a franchise QB. 

 

Panicking in the biggest moments is not encouraging. 

 

Getting zero TDs against a poor D is not encouraging. 

 

All will be forgotten if next season is much better. If not, dump him.

well  well.

you can always draft another one right ?

7 hours ago, NoSaint said:

I hope we never see him bail backwards on a blitz on the edge of fg range, lateral a ball randomly, or heave it to a FB in double coverage- and those are just the exceptionally bizarre choices.

no kidding : (

 Flushed out of the pocket takes on new meaning when running backwards

 ala Tyrod perhaps

7 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

 I was telling somebody yesterday it's almost like Josh plays like a fan out there. He just tries to do too much sometimes. I get the feeling that he has embraced Buffalo almost too much to the point where he feels like it's all on his shoulders

good post

5 hours ago, Buffbills716 said:

After three years, it won't be me, but the Bills.  He needs a decent OC if he ever hopes to take it to the next level.

which is it then ?

[familykwi]

Wow, this topic has been fun to read.  Let's be honest about a couple of things though:

 

Fitz is a Harvard man, Josh is from Wyoming.  That Fitz had a better wunderlich should not be a surprise to anyone.  No shame in Fitzy outscoring you.

 

I was wondering why our FB was 50 yards downfield in the first place.  I hope to draw coverage from a primary target.  IF he had actually timed that ball better (something I would not expect from a FB BTW), you would have heard a collective DIMARCO??? from space.  Some because they never heard of him, the rest of us because we would still be wondering what he was doing there in the first place.

 

I also feel you cannot say if DiMarco timed his jump better he would have caught it.  Having two defenders on his back may have impeded his ability to maintain control on the way down.  Just sayin'.

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, familykwi said:

I also feel you cannot say if DiMarco timed his jump better he would have caught it. 

 

That was probably the craziest aspect of that play: He could have actually caught the ball. He completely mistimed his jump.

[london_bills]

8 hours ago, TroutDog said:

I hate that he called him a dolt but I said the same thing in a thread the other day: I’m excited any time he has the ball. 
 

For all his faults, he has improved dramatically this year. From completion percentage to limiting INT’s to getting rid of hero ball. I can’t wait to see what next season brings!

Love Josh Allen. Very exciting. Showed progress statistically, limited the picks.

 

He's here to stay but no - he has not got rid of the hero ball!!! It's was there in the second half yesterday. It was the old Josh Allen. 

[billsfan1959]

5 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Josh is smart on paper, no doubt...but it’s his “in game” football IQ that seems low imo...

 

I'm thinking a message board version of the Wonderlic might be useful here.....

[Dr.Sack]

Every time I trash Allen on another sub 60% completion percentage game the day after I look back & think how someone so crazy could be given the keys to our franchise.
 

This kid is reckless. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is given the nickname “Skywalker” for his insane play. He’s 50% Light Side 50% Dark Side. He’s the ‘chosen one’. I believe Daboll loves that maniac & there’s a lot of mutual appreciation. 

 

? to you Josh “Skywalker” Allen. 

[billsfan1959]

4 minutes ago, london_bills said:

Love Josh Allen. Very exciting. Showed progress statistically, limited the picks.

 

He's here to stay but no - he has not got rid of the hero ball!!! It's was there in the second half yesterday. It was the old Josh Allen. 

 

Even with those "Old Josh Allen" head-scratching decisions, he still led the team to the game tying FG and, had it not been for the penalty on Ford, a chance at the game winning FG in OT.