Buffbills716 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 57 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Oh, my heavens. In JP's third year in Buffalo, he had a passer rating of 85 and never got close again. He went 7-9 in that season and had only 3 other wins in his career. In EJ's second season in Buffalo he had a passer rating of 80 and never got close again. After his second season in Buffalo, Josh Allen improved to 85 went 10-6 and went to the playoffs. Allen runs better than both, throws better than both and already has more career wins than both. Not sure what you're looking at. You're right about the o line. The throw to DiMarco was on Allen, not Daboll. They went 10-6 based on strength of schedule and their defense. Allen was a part of it, but overall, I saw things in him (errant passing, poor decision making, poor throws, staring down receivers) that I saw in EJ and JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroutDog Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, london_bills said: Love Josh Allen. Very exciting. Showed progress statistically, limited the picks. He's here to stay but no - he has not got rid of the hero ball!!! It's was there in the second half yesterday. It was the old Josh Allen. I’d disagree. Were there moments of it? Sure, but not the every play stuff of old. He has improved in that area. Just my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
london_bills Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: Even with those "Old Josh Allen" head-scratching decisions, he still led the team to the game tying FG and, had it not been for the penalty on Ford, a chance at the game winning FG in OT. Let's see what he does with a top receiver and better o line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffbills716 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: well well. you can always draft another one right ? no kidding : ( Flushed out of the pocket takes on new meaning when running backwards ala Tyrod perhaps good post which is it then ? Good question. Who's available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 8 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said: Just some food for thought and I hope Daboll, Bean & McD do a little out of the box thinking this off season. Or we can stick with splitting Gore & DeMarco out wide in an empty backfield. You know a play design that deprives Allen of extra protection while simultaneously removing 40% of the threat the spread out "play makers" are supposed to represent? Oh, God stuff like this just drives me nuts with Daboll. He gets some bad rap from folks here, but personnel choices that don’t have our best offensive talent on the field on key downs just makes me want to hurl - items, stomach contents, foul words 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Buffbills716 said: They went 10-6 based on strength of schedule and their defense. Allen was a part of it, but overall, I saw things in him (errant passing, poor decision making, poor throws, staring down receivers) that I saw in EJ and JP. Of course you saw those things from Josh. You're gonna see those things from virtually every QB who is the 24th rated passer in the league. However, in my opinion, to say that 27 starts into his career Josh looks anything like JP or EJ is simply foolish. 27 starts into his career EJ Manuel's career was over - he never got that many starts, because he failed before then. 27 starts into his career, Losman's was effectively over. To compare Josh Allen with those guys is absurd. Today, Allen has major upside potential and the other two, at the same points in their careers, had demonstrated that they had NO upside. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffbills716 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Of course you saw those things from Josh. You're gonna see those things from virtually every QB who is the 24th rated passer in the league. However, in my opinion, to say that 27 starts into his career Josh looks anything like JP or EJ is simply foolish. 27 starts into his career EJ Manuel's career was over - he never got that many starts, because he failed before then. 27 starts into his career, Losman's was effectively over. To compare Josh Allen with those guys is absurd. Today, Allen has major upside potential and the other two, at the same points in their careers, had demonstrated that they had NO upside. After yesterday, I do not see the upside. JP/TT could throw the long ball, and EJ could run (average), but they lacked the skills necessary to take it to the next level. Allen is similar in that he has the skills, but not the touch and aptitude an NFL QB needs to succeed. Maybe that's why he is the 24th ranked passer who has played against some pretty easy defenses this year. A QB's primary job to throw, not run. Edited January 6, 2020 by Buffbills716 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, Buffbills716 said: I just hope you are right. I really do. Me too. Where I agree with you is that what we've seen from him isn't nearly good enough. Where I disagree is that we're looking at another JP or EJ. He's already beyond them, and growing. How far he grows, we'll have to wait and see. Here's one other thought: I would feel even better about Allen's future if McDermott fired Daboll. Not because I think Daboll is doing a bad job; I really don't know enough about football to know whether Daboll is any good and likely to get better. But if McDermott fired him, that would tell me that part of Allen's problems this year were OC problems, not Allen. I don't expect that happen. If Daboll is gone, it would be because he took a HC job. I'd be surprised if that happened, but I've been surprised before. If he doesn't get a HC job, I think McD keeps him and works with him to get improvement out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffbills716 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Me too. Where I agree with you is that what we've seen from him isn't nearly good enough. Where I disagree is that we're looking at another JP or EJ. He's already beyond them, and growing. How far he grows, we'll have to wait and see. Here's one other thought: I would feel even better about Allen's future if McDermott fired Daboll. Not because I think Daboll is doing a bad job; I really don't know enough about football to know whether Daboll is any good and likely to get better. But if McDermott fired him, that would tell me that part of Allen's problems this year were OC problems, not Allen. I don't expect that happen. If Daboll is gone, it would be because he took a HC job. I'd be surprised if that happened, but I've been surprised before. If he doesn't get a HC job, I think McD keeps him and works with him to get improvement out of him. I agree with you on Daboll. Edited January 6, 2020 by Buffbills716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 42 minutes ago, Buffbills716 said: After yesterday, I do not see the upside. JP/TT could throw the long ball, and EJ could run (average), but they lacked the skills necessary to take it to the next level. Allen is similar in that he has the skills, but not the touch and aptitude an NFL QB needs to succeed. Maybe that's why he is the 24th ranked passer who has played against some pretty easy defenses this year. A QB's primary job to throw, not run. Try telling that to Lamar Jackson. We ignore what the Ravens have done at our peril. Like the rest of the Allen supporters on this board I agree that he needs to keep improving his passing game. But to not acknowledge the significant improvements he's made in just one year in that part of his game is to be deliberately blind. But for Allen to continue to grow & improve as a passer he MUST get more help at the play maker position. As I watched the rest of the wildcard playoff games I couldn't help but notice that only NE had fewer offensive threats then the Bills. Even the banged up Eagles had better play making/more productive TE's and a better one-two punch at RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffbills716 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 15 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said: Try telling that to Lamar Jackson. We ignore what the Ravens have done at our peril. Like the rest of the Allen supporters on this board I agree that he needs to keep improving his passing game. But to not acknowledge the significant improvements he's made in just one year in that part of his game is to be deliberately blind. But for Allen to continue to grow & improve as a passer he MUST get more help at the play maker position. As I watched the rest of the wildcard playoff games I couldn't help but notice that only NE had fewer offensive threats then the Bills. Even the banged up Eagles had better play making/more productive TE's and a better one-two punch at RB. I support Allen. I am just concerned that he may not reach that next level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Gotta admit, I was cracking up while reading that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Long Beach Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I agree, I thought it was fantastic. Funny enough and true enough. When Josh is on the field, it sure as hell isn't boring. It's great to finally have some magic on the field, even if it's the sorcerers apprentice kind. Fitz had some, but my god, those interception filled debacles... Josh has CLEARLY been learning and getting better during his time in the league. That alone makes him better than any young Buffalo QB I can remember since our decent ones were all vets (Bledsoe, Flutie, even Fitz). The hope is that he can KEEP learning and getting better. He sure looks like he can. Fingers crossed that he does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 1/5/2020 at 5:02 AM, stevewin said: "Josh Allen was ripping double guitar solos with fireworks coming off the fretboard and a dang live tiger on the stage." Thats friggin great Honestly thought that line was hilarious. Really funny article. And it's frankly pretty hard for me to tell what the author's actual feelings about Allen are. Is this a massive sarcastic insult? Is he putting this out there with the hope that in the future when Josh tries these plays--which, let's be honest, he's always going to try some crazy *****... it's in his nature--they succeed on these big stages? Regardless, if you can't laugh reading that article, you don't have a soul. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Remember, all these other stud QB's have ALWAYS had big, fast, strong-hands, playmaking studs to rely on (most cases more than one) ................ Brady, Gronk+ Rodgers, Adams+ Mahomes, Kelce+ Watson, Hopkins+ Ben, Brown+ I could go on and on. Where is Allen's big time WR to help him out of (sometimes) bad situations. This is where the evaluation of Allen being a bad QB is TOTALLY unfair. He doesn't have Hopkins, Julio Jones, AJ Green, Hill and Kelce, Michael Thomas, Gronk, Beckham, Adams. This is also where the Carolina Panthers have failed Cam Newton, by not getting him a stud WR to rely on. Because of this, Newton's career is hanging on by a thread now. Let's hope Allen doesn't suffer the same fate as Newton, meaning NEVER having a true stud No.1 WR like MOST of these franchise QB's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 That piece is utterly awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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