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Andre Roberts is a waste on the 46

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maybe we should bring NFL quality WR's here and not go into the season with an offense comprising of practice squad players 

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2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Any idea if the average drive start on kickoffs is significantly different from the 25?

Again, I"m not criticizing Roberts, I'm just not sure he provides enough value for a guy who is turning out to be a return specialist only?

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Reminds me of a post i wrote about Roberts back on August 24th:

On 8/24/2019 at 9:55 PM, brianthomas said:

thats what i keep hearing & he definitely was the best in the league last year & he's a lock to make the team.

But for fan board hypotheticals if it came down to him & Williams i'd pick the Duke because he gives our offense something that nobody else can. With the exception of last year, AR averages about 22 yards/return. How much would Isaiah get, 19, 20, 21? Of course its just preseason but Roberts returns havent been very memorable so far this preseason. McKenzie is a better fit for our offense imo & he's been doing the punt returns, so I'd put McKenzie in that KR role too & use the extra roster spot for something different, like a tall wr who can make the big catch in the red zone.

Now if we're keeping 7 wr's than that changes & i'd keep Roberts. But we're gonna have to make some difficult decisions come cut day. Is a few yards possible extra per return worth getting rid of another player who could make a bigger impact somewhere else? Thats the decision & its gonna be a tough one this year... which is a good thing :P

Needless to say most posters felt having an All Pro return man was more important.

But on games like today, where we're in the red zone & don't have a tall receiver to throw to, you sure wish you at least had that option to throw to once & awhile.

I'm not saying Duke Williams will light up the stat sheet week in week out. But his size presents another challenge to the defense & if he gets you that 1st down or TD in the back of the end zone on a 4th & 8, i'd say its worth having him on the active roster versus the extra 3 yards added onto our kickoff return average with Roberts claiming that roster spot.

Allen doesn't really throw WR's open that often. Usually they have to be open & Allen fires it in there. That sounds perfect for a tall, strong WR like Duke. Yes those 3 yards extra in field position are nice, but bigger picture the return game just hasn't been that game changing for us. But getting that 1st down or TD late in the game. I'd take that in a heartbeat.

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Different regimes do different things. Under McD Roberts always returns, under rex and Gailey etc there were different returners. I tend to wonder what it would be like if beasley and mckenzie returned some kicks. I think roberts has been consistent though.

Edited by london_bills

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3 hours ago, TPS said:

Something I've been thinking about and today confirms it for me.  The Bill's return game isn't good enough to waste a spot dressing Roberts. 

I believe they'd be better off dressing Duke.  

 

 

He needs to stop bringing kickoffs out from out of the endzone. But I do like him as a punt returner. Very sure-handed. Enough to deserve a spot on the 46-man active roster? Maybe not in 2020, but this season I'm fine with it.

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5 hours ago, TPS said:

Something I've been thinking about and today confirms it for me.  The Bill's return game isn't good enough to waste a spot dressing Roberts. 

I believe they'd be better off dressing Duke.  

 

 yep.  and ke kept taking it out of the endzone and getting tackled before the 25.  just boneheaded.  

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Of all NFL players who've played at least 11 games this season the leader in kick return average is..........Andre Roberts! 26.8 AVG

 

He's doing his job....

Edited by billsbackto81
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Holy Wow. This thread. 

 

Roberts is second in the league in return average and is excellent at fielding punts and not allowing them to bounce or be downed in the black zone. Furthermore, the reason he doesn't get many punt returns is because teams intentionally avoid giving him returnable balls because he is a known threat. 

 

This is a terrible thread and sums up this entire day on TBD. 

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I think Roberts has been fairly effective this season. He has had several decent kickoff returns. However, blocking by the return team today was really poor and gave Roberts almost no chance to make a play. 

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Our roster problems:

 

We need at least one more OT.  Ford needs to either make a huge step up, or move to og because we aren't likely to keep Spain.  If Ford does step up we need a new og, in which case I suppose we can keep Spain but I don't see how we will know that Ford improves until into next season.

 

We have a total of two WRs in the roster, Miami for example has three or four and their top two are better than ours.  Denver too.  We need a prototype.

 

We kinda need another pass rusher.  I'm 50/50 on this one, but a clowney or someone like that would super charge our d

 

We need another Corner.

 

We need another rb who can hurt a d.  Lots of guys drafted this year and prolly next will do this.

 

Last, and not least, the bottom 12 or so guys on our roster, and I think 7 or 8 of them are on O, are scrubs and we need to upgrade.  This will help special teams a ton, and honestly might be the biggest difference between us and Baltimore.  We won zero one on ones in special teams and our punter sucks too.  If we added yards to our seven returns or punted better we prolly win the game 

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11 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Andre has been a surprising disappointment. He hasn't busted 1 good kickoff or punt return all season.  But our punt and kickoff block coverage might be the worst in the league. Farwell is actually worse than Crossman. 

which games have you been watching

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12 hours ago, TPS said:

Something I've been thinking about and today confirms it for me.  The Bill's return game isn't good enough to waste a spot dressing Roberts. 

I believe they'd be better off dressing Duke.  

 

 

How many times has he fumbled?

 

He gives us certainty back there and if he doesn't ever run it out of the EZ we will never hit a big play.

 

Keep on keeping on Andre I love what you do for the team.

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The issue isn't about Roberts himself, it's the trade off on the decision for the 46.

 

Roberts is strictly a return man. In 11 games he has 2 catches for 13 yards. He is in the top 4 in kickoff return average; however, I'm not certain he has given the Bills a significantly different starting position than not returning the kick? 

 

One alternative is dressing Duke to provide a big sure-handed WR. He has 6 catches (on 7 targets) in 3 games and a game-winning TD. Yes, he doesn't have the speed or the separation, but his separation is his size, and his stats show he's more valuable on O than Roberts. 

 

So, In an ideal world, the Bills would have both on the 46, but they have to make a choice. Some of you may think it's a clear choice; I don't, which was the point of my post.  

Btw, This Is also the the reason there's a Duke thread going again. 

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The Bills are fourth in the NFL in kickoff return average.

 

If I'm not mistaken, they were #1 going in to the Baltimore game. 

kick return.PNG

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21 minutes ago, TPS said:

The issue isn't about Roberts himself, it's the trade off on the decision for the 46.

 

Roberts is strictly a return man. In 11 games he has 2 catches for 13 yards. He is in the top 4 in kickoff return average; however, I'm not certain he has given the Bills a significantly different starting position than not returning the kick? 

 

One alternative is dressing Duke to provide a big sure-handed WR. He has 6 catches (on 7 targets) in 3 games and a game-winning TD. Yes, he doesn't have the speed or the separation, but his separation is his size, and his stats show he's more valuable on O than Roberts. 

 

So, In an ideal world, the Bills would have both on the 46, but they have to make a choice. Some of you may think it's a clear choice; I don't, which was the point of my post.  

Btw, This Is also the the reason there's a Duke thread going again. 


 

There is no trade off.  Roberts is excellent on special teams and if you replace him with McKenzie - the issue is the fumbles go way up.  Ask Carolina about allowing Ray Ray to field punts.

 

The position Andre plays is typical of how most teams build.  You have a core special teams guys that handles kickoff and punts and does not turn the ball over - just like you have a dedicated kicker, punter, and snapper.  Any production he gives us on offense is a plus.

 

Is Duke a better WR - yep, but he can not do the things that Andre does - so that is not the replacement that would occur.  It would be sitting WR speed (McKenzie or Foster) for size. 
 

The Bills are also running more 11 personnel with 3 WRs - so I could see a trade off of a TE for a WR at some point, but to start a thread about Roberts being useless is just crazy.  
 

Plus if your big issue is not having Duke on the active roster - then post that in the Duke thread.  Don’t blame Roberts - that is still one of the top returners in the NFL - for keeping Duke on the bench.  It should be an easy and clear choice of Roberts over Duke - it is not even close.  There are many other positions to sit to activate Williams if they think he will be a difference maker.

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This.  He cost us field position multiple times yesterday.  Duke must have banged someone's wife. 

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His numbers are among the best in the NFL. This is just a bitchfest about him not breaking one.

His instincts and judgement, knowing when to call for a FC and when to block etc. 

He doesn't fumble. 80% of those returns for 9-15 yards w 3 guys bearing down on him anyone else fair catches. He's been worth every penny in my opinion. I've been saying all season how nice it is to have an all-pro return guy.

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46 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:


 

There is no trade off.  Roberts is excellent on special teams and if you replace him with McKenzie - the issue is the fumbles go way up.  Ask Carolina about allowing Ray Ray to field punts.

 

The position Andre plays is typical of how most teams build.  You have a core special teams guys that handles kickoff and punts and does not turn the ball over - just like you have a dedicated kicker, punter, and snapper.  Any production he gives us on offense is a plus.

 

Is Duke a better WR - yep, but he can not do the things that Andre does - so that is not the replacement that would occur.  It would be sitting WR speed (McKenzie or Foster) for size. 
 

The Bills are also running more 11 personnel with 3 WRs - so I could see a trade off of a TE for a WR at some point, but to start a thread about Roberts being useless is just crazy.  
 

Plus if your big issue is not having Duke on the active roster - then post that in the Duke thread.  Don’t blame Roberts - that is still one of the top returners in the NFL - for keeping Duke on the bench.  It should be an easy and clear choice of Roberts over Duke - it is not even close.  There are many other positions to sit to activate Williams if they think he will be a difference maker.

I would agree with your take, for the most part.  If you read my post as blaming Roberts, then you've misinterpreted it.  His contribution has been on ST, not offense, and that is the trade-off I'm looking at--giving up something on ST to get more on O. However, where I'm in agreement is your point that it may be Foster where the real decision lies?  

9 minutes ago, SmokinES3 said:

His numbers are among the best in the NFL. This is just a bitchfest about him not breaking one.

His instincts and judgement, knowing when to call for a FC and when to block etc. 

He doesn't fumble. 80% of those returns for 9-15 yards w 3 guys bearing down on him anyone else fair catches. He's been worth every penny in my opinion. I've been saying all season how nice it is to have an all-pro return guy.

It's not a bitchfest. The issue is the Bills need a big-bodied WR, and if they want one on the 46, then they have a decision to make. 

I think  @Rochesterfan probably has the right take.

 

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15 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Andre has been a surprising disappointment. He hasn't busted 1 good kickoff or punt return all season.  But our punt and kickoff block coverage might be the worst in the league. Farwell is actually worse than Crossman. 

   I asked this in another thread.

   WHY don’t we block the outside gunners when we are receiving a punt????

    The other teams outside guys are given a free release to the inside. It has to be by design because our guys don’t even try to engage them or bracket them to the outside.

     Every single punt Roberts is back there catching it with both outside coverage guys on him as he signals the fair catch.

WTF????

Anybody???? Thoughts????

15 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Roberts can't do much when the Ravens gunners are running down the field freely, not even slowed down by the Bills.  He had no chance on the PR's.  

This is every game, all season long

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On 12/9/2019 at 8:34 AM, TPS said:

I would agree with your take, for the most part.  If you read my post as blaming Roberts, then you've misinterpreted it.  His contribution has been on ST, not offense, and that is the trade-off I'm looking at--giving up something on ST to get more on O. However, where I'm in agreement is your point that it may be Foster where the real decision lies?  

It's not a bitchfest. The issue is the Bills need a big-bodied WR, and if they want one on the 46, then they have a decision to make. 

I think  @Rochesterfan probably has the right take.

 

You won't get any pushback from me on the need for a 6'4" #1 receiver.

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