McBeane and draft timing

[Bevis]

20 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Tell you what.  Go back through your post history and copy the one you posted before the 2017 draft saying Mahomes would be a star.  Or pipe down.

 

There were concerns about Mahomes in terms of his footwork and his coming out of an offensive scheme that had never produced an NFL quality QB.  He had a great season last year, and no one would have seen it coming that early in his career before the 2017 draft.  And if you say you did you’re not telling the truth, that simple.

 

This retrospective critique stuff is fun to do.  I still cringe over the Lamonica trade.  But it accomplishes nothing. It lets people who have nowhere near the data teams have a reason to beeyatch.

 

There were those clamoring for Mahomes before the 2017 draft ya know and hated passing on a QB that fell into their lap when they really needed one.  One of them happens to be on the radio, a guy many of you think is an idiot.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Bevis said:

 

There were those clamoring for Mahomes before the 2017 draft ya know and hated passing on a QB that fell into their lap when they really needed one.  One of them happens to be on the radio, a guy many of you think is an idiot.

And I wanted Watson.  My statement was that no one saw the kind of season Mahomes had last year before the draft.  And I stand by that.  If they had every team in the league would have tried to move up to the # 1 pick to grab him.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

And I wanted Watson.  My statement was that no one saw the kind of season Mahomes had last year before the draft.  And I stand by that.  If they had every team in the league would have tried to move up to the # 1 pick to grab him.

Andy Reid did apparently. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Andy Reid did apparently. 

You and others need to read.  If any team  saw that Mahomes would have the year he had last year, they would have spent the farm to move up to # 1 to get him.  No one did including Reid.  And the reason they didn’t is because Mahomes had flaws coming out.

 

Anyone who says they knew Mahomes would be the guy we saw last year pre-draft is full of it.  

[Chuck Wagon]

I think it's a massive red flag on the organization as a whole that we "weren't in a position to evaluate QB" in the 2017 draft (yet still took Peterman).  Feels like a lame attempt at an excuse after Mahomes and Watson have turned into what they have become because they don't want to say "we didn't think they'd be this good".

[Bevis]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

You and others need to read.  If any team  saw that Mahomes would have the year he had last year, they would have spent the farm to move up to # 1 to get him.  No one did including Reid.  And the reason they didn’t is because Mahomes had flaws coming out.

 

Anyone who says they knew Mahomes would be the guy we saw last year pre-draft is full of it.  

 

That argument is such BS.  Of course no one knows what any player WILL be, it's what they think the player CAN be, that's called talent evaluation.  Ya know, the thing that is being called into question here concerning McDermott and him passing on Mahomes?  Jesus, it should not be this difficult.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, Bevis said:

 

That argument is such BS.  Of course no one knows what any player WILL be, it's what they think the player CAN be, that's called talent evaluation.  Ya know, the thing that is being called into question here concerning McDermott and him passing on Mahomes?  Jesus, it should not be this difficult.

 

You sound supppper sensitive

[Bevis]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You sound supppper sensitive

 

I'm allergic to idiots on the internet, affects my skin in bad ways.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Bevis said:

 

That argument is such BS.  Of course no one knows what any player WILL be, it's what they think the player CAN be, that's called talent evaluation.  Ya know, the thing that is being called into question here concerning McDermott and him passing on Mahomes?  Jesus, it should not be this difficult.

No, you’re wrong.  People here are blasting McD for not taking him because he had this one great season that no one would have predicted.  One season.

 

If you tell me you thought Mahomes would have had the season he had last year in his first full season I call BS.

[H2o]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You sound supppper sensitive

 

[Philo]

@teef I think you missed a name on your list...

[Bevis]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

No, you’re wrong.  People here are blasting McD for not taking him because he had this one great season that no one would have predicted.  One season.

 

If you tell me you thought Mahomes would have had the season he had last year in his first full season I call BS.

 

Mike Schopp is right, some of you will defend the Bills no matter what.  

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

 

I think Beane is trying to line up his needs with what the draft is strong in.

 

 

Shhh....now every FO is going to want to follow this ingenious plan.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Bevis said:

 

Mike Schopp is right, some of you will defend the Bills no matter what.  

I don’t listen to Mike Schopp,  I have no idea what he said or didn’t say, and thus you’re wrong again.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

2 minutes ago, Philo Beddoe said:

@teef I think you missed a name on your list...

they're one of the same. one leaves, the other shows up.

[Patrick Duffy]

6 minutes ago, Bevis said:

 

I'm allergic to idiots on the internet, affects my skin in bad ways.

 

Does your skin look anything like the picture u have for you username? If so, does it itch? It looks like it may itch..

[C.Biscuit97]

14 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You and others need to read.  If any team  saw that Mahomes would have the year he had last year, they would have spent the farm to move up to # 1 to get him.  No one did including Reid.  And the reason they didn’t is because Mahomes had flaws coming out.

 

Anyone who says they knew Mahomes would be the guy we saw last year pre-draft is full of it.  

You’re right.  If teams had information that Mahomes would have had one of the greatest seasons ever in his second, he would have went number 1 overall.  Brilliant.  You also know that’s not how the draft works right?  It’s about projections.  Andy Reid, who had a qb who took him to the playoffs every season, traded up to get Mahomes instead of getting a player to help them immediately?  I would call that a pretty big statement of faith at how good he thought he was going to be.

[BarleyNY]

46 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Tell you what.  Go back through your post history and copy the one you posted before the 2017 draft saying Mahomes would be a star.  Or pipe down.

 

There were concerns about Mahomes in terms of his footwork and his coming out of an offensive scheme that had never produced an NFL quality QB.  He had a great season last year, and no one would have seen it coming that early in his career before the 2017 draft.  And if you say you did you’re not telling the truth, that simple.

 

This retrospective critique stuff is fun to do.  I still cringe over the Lamonica trade.  But it accomplishes nothing. It lets people who have nowhere near the data teams have a reason to beeyatch.

 

Feel free to google my stuff.  I am from Cleveland and root for both the Browns and Bills.  My wish going into that draft was that one of my teams would get Mahomes.  Leroy I think it was scooped the trade and I said I hoped he was wrong because that meant in all likelihood KC would get him.  In 2018 I said I hoped the Bills and Browns would get Mayfield and Rosen.  I’ll take my lumps on Rosen, but Mayfield looks legit.

 

I didn’t expect Mahomes to be this good, this early, but I thought he had the best upside to be a franchise QB in that draft.  Believe me or don’t.  I don’t really care.

[Buffalo716]

I think beane plays the game well. There is no chance he knew Oliver would fall into his lap and Williams would retire, that's just luck

 

Same with getting Edmunds and Allen. We needed a QB and MLB and they were sitting there and the draft played out well

 

Beane seems like he doesn't deviate from his plan, he isn't throwing crap at A wall and seeing what sticks

[Dablitzkrieg]

3 hours ago, Element115 said:

 

 

And these responses are very predictable tbh.  Just jump on twitter and see for yourself.

This is an example of what I hear every time I see a post of yours.  Absolute garbage!

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re right.  If teams had information that Mahomes would have had one of the greatest seasons ever in his second, he would have went number 1 overall.  Brilliant.  You also know that’s not how the draft works right?  It’s about projections.  Andy Reid, who had a qb who took him to the playoffs every season, traded up to get Mahomes instead of getting a player to help them immediately?  I would call that a pretty big statement of faith at how good he thought he was going to be.

 

Yes well not every FO has an Andy Reid. He is known for his success with makiing the most out of QBs.  31 other teams  most likely have 20/20 hindsight also.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy

[BillsVet]

42 minutes ago, Bevis said:

Mike Schopp is right, some of you will defend the Bills no matter what.  

 

Over the years here I've observed an increasing sensitivity to anyone, fan or pundit, who even comes close to criticizing the team.  It could be GR, ESPN, or some NFL personality on Twitter.  People rush here to complain the Bills have been put down as if they themselves are the ones being criticized.    

 

I cannot understand how anyone so intensely personalizes criticism of their favorite team.  It's a game.  It's entertainment.  And if the team is mediocre, or average after off-seasons of rebuilding, people are going to call it out. 

 

This is going to be an interesting season regardless.

 

[SoTier]

6 hours ago, Element115 said:

 

I need an explanation.  What we know about Allen to this point, "so far so good" is simply not the case. Is this a faith based determination?

 

Bills fans who "Billieve" have convinced themselves that Allen can't fail because they've convinced themselves that McDermott and Beane are infallible despite considerable evidence to the contrary.  

 

The reality is that in most drafts, there's only one QB who fits the description of "franchise QB" and only 4 draft classes -- 2004, 2005, 2008, 2016 -- had more than 1 first round pick who can be called a "franchise QB".   Three classes had no franchise QBs: 2002, 2007, and 2013.  2015 may be the fourth since there's lower round QBs of note in the class.

• 2000 -- 1 first rounder   - #18 - Chad Pennington  #199 - Tom Brady    Best QB -Tom Brady
• 2001 -- 1 first rounder - #1 - Michael Vick  #32 - Drew Brees  Best QB - Brees
• 2002 -- 3 first rounders - #1 David Carr  #3 Joey Harrington  #32 Patrick Ramsey 
• 2003 - 4 first rounders - #1 Carson Palmer  #7 Byron Leftwich  #19 Kyle Boller #22 Rex Grossman   Best QB - Palmer
• 2004 - 4 first rounders - #1 Eli Manning  #4 Phillip Rivers  #11 Ben Roethlisberger  #22 JP Losman  #90 Matt Schaub   Best QB: Roethlisberger or Rivers
• 2005 - 3 first rounders - #1 Alex Smith  #24 Aaron Rodgers #25 Jason Campbell  Best QB: Rodgers
• 2006 - 3 first rounders - #3 Vince Young  #10 Matt Leinart  #11 Jay Cutler  Best QB: Cutler
• 2007 - 2 first rounders - #1 Ja'Marcus Russell  #22 Brady Quinn
• 2008 - 2 first rounders - #3 Matt Ryan  #18 Joe Flacco   Best QB: Ryan
• 2009 - 3 first rounders - #1 Matthew Stafford  #5 Mark Sanchez  #17 Josh Freeman   Best QB: Stafford
• 2010 - 2 first rounders - #1 Sam Bradford  #25 Tim Tebow   Best QB: Bradford
• 2011 - 4 first rounders - #1 Cam Newton #8 Jake Locker  #10 Blaine Gabbert  #12 Christian Ponder  #35 Andy Dalton  Best QB: Newton
• 2012 - 4 first rounders - #1 Andrew Luck  #2 Robert Griffin III  #8 Ryan Tannehill  #22  Brandon Weed  #75 Russell Wilson  #88 Nick Foles  #117 Kirk Cousins
• 2013 - 1 first rounder - #16 EJ Manuel 
• 2014 - 3 first rounders - #3 Blake Bortles  #22 Johnny Manziel  #32  Teddy Bridgewater  #36 Derek Carr  #62 Jimmy Garoppolo
• 2015 - 2 first rounders - #1 Jameis Winston  #2 Marcus Mariota
• t2016 - 3 first rounders - #1 Jared Goff  #2 Carson Wentz  #26 Paxton Lynch  #91 Jacoby Brissett  #135 Dak Prescott

12 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I think we finally have a front office that evaluates players well, which makes drafting the BPA an effective policy.

 

Except that they have consistently drafted for need, especially in the first and second rounds.

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, H2o said:

Ahhhh, the good ole thread hijacking. I suggest you go join Jeffismagic/Zero(whatever) over on the Chiefs' message board. 

 

Why is this "thread hijacking"?  The OP claimed that passing on a QB to take a CB because the Bills needed to replace Stephon Gilmore was the right move.   The truth is that Josh Allen is not, at this point, anywhere near being a competent NFL starting QB.  He may never become one -- or he might become a HOFer.  Nobody knows. Unless Mahomes implodes, however, it's very likely that Allen will always come up short compared to Mahomes.

[H2o]

Just now, SoTier said:

 

Why is this "thread hijacking"?  The OP claimed that passing on a QB to take a CB because the Bills needed to replace Stephon Gilmore was the right move.   The truth is that Josh Allen is not, at this point, anywhere near being a competent NFL starting QB.  He may never become one -- or he might become a HOFer.  Nobody knows. Unless Mahomes implodes, however, it's very likely that Allen will always come up short compared to Mahomes.

Because people love to turn anything and everything into re-hashed arguments about us passing on Mahomes. The horse has been beaten to death already, resurrected, and beaten to death again only about a billion times on this board. It takes away from the overall outlook of how it seems the Bills have positioned themselves for EACH draft and focuses on one single pick out of the numerous that have been made. Making it about a dead argument versus the broader spectrum he was getting at is indeed hijacking a thread, despite the mention he made of us passing on a single QB (or two as some guys were really in on Watson as well, with the main one people piss and moan over being Mahomes). 

[Dkollidas]

7 hours ago, Mountain Man said:

An absolutely ridiculous assumption which would have seen the Bills penalised massively by the league if true 

I’m sure no one does anything that isn’t completely sanctioned by the league. They’re friends. They could’ve been at the combine and chatting and said “I like that guy”, and responded “yup, he’s gonna be a player, might even spend a 2nd Round Pick on a guy like that”. 

 

Not saying it did happen, but I wouldn’t see it as impossible

17 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

He's not expecting a top-15 pick, but the rest is plausible.

Bad choice of words on my part, didn’t mean to say that they should expect a top-15 Pick, I was just using a random draft spot as an example. 

[BADOLBILZ]

13 hours ago, H2o said:

 

 

 

Now that I know how much Pat Mahomes talk bothers you............we gonna' have a lotta' fun.

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Now that I know how much Pat Mahomes talk bothers you............we gonna' have a lotta' fun.

 

you going to ride his jock through his whole career?

[Matt_In_NH]

Hughes just signed an extension but they still need a dominant pass rusher for sure.

[Element115]

21 hours ago, teef said:

wow.  you watched a netflix special about bob lazar.  you...are...deep.

 

While I have seen the Lazar documentary as well as the Joe Rogan Lazar podcast, that is not where I learned about the collaborative synthesis of elements 114 & 115. I don't recall exactly where, but it was years before that.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 8/29/2019 at 1:43 PM, Logic said:

You're the first person to ever say this. 

Great, hard hitting, original, thought provoking content.

Well done.

 

 

It's gotta' be said.

 

That decision looms over the McDermott regime..........which has a current record of 15-17 and is held together only by the benefit of the doubt.

 

And you know I am hardly surprised that Sears is letting their market trend analysts post on message boards during the middle of the day.   SMH

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

you going to ride his jock through his whole career?

 

 

Let's put it this way...........if the topic is a dead horse then what does that make McBeane and Allen?

 

I've compared the situation to the Kelly/Marino many times............if the Bills select Marino instead of Kelly then Marino likely becomes a Bill in 1983 because he wanted to play in the NFL,  while JK was down for whatever.

 

And in year 2 Marino went ballistic on the AFC and it looked like they had passed on the future Greatest QB of all time.

 

As fate would have it the Bills still managed to dominate the AFC for most of Marino's career.    That's what I am hoping happens with Allen.    Passing on Mahomes and handing him to a long time AFC/AFL rival was horrible........but the situation is NOT a dead horse discussion yet...........not unless McDermott and Beane and Allen are cooked.........the Bills could still succeed.   Let's see it.

[K-9]

More of this endless teeth gnashing over something we never had. What a bunch of wimps. 

 

I know we had a couple around here that were pounding the table for Mahomes at the time and I truly respect that, but mostly its just the same hindsight geniuses whining like the little bi*tch*es they are.

 

Over and over and over again.

 

Since there is nothing that this ceaseless crybaby crap can do about it, I suggest growing a pair and accepting the current situation. 

[BillsVet]

10 hours ago, mattynh said:

Hughes just signed an extension but they still need a dominant pass rusher for sure.

 

I'm sure Beane has one scoped out in the 2021 draft already.  gods at drafting know these things years out, including which players will declare as juniors..  At least that's what I've heard here.  

 

Then again, when you've got 3 first round picks on the defense, one wonders how many more will be needed to round out that side.  

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, K-9 said:

More of this endless teeth gnashing over something we never had. What a bunch of wimps. 

 

I know we had a couple around here that were pounding the table for Mahomes at the time and I truly respect that, but mostly its just the same hindsight geniuses whining like the little bi*tch*es they are.

 

Over and over and over again.

 

Since there is nothing that this ceaseless crybaby crap can do about it, I suggest growing a pair and accepting the current situation. 

 

 

Wow.

 

I have said some things on this board but even I would expect a time out for that.

 

The B word between white folks is the caucasian equivalent of the N word.........even I wouldn't circumvent the filter to use it in that context.........bravo classy K!

 

 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Wow.

 

I have said some things on this board but even I would expect a time out for that.

 

The B word between white folks is the caucasian equivalent of the N word.........even I wouldn't circumvent the filter to use it in that context.........bravo classy K!

 

 

Perhaps in your un-evolved, knuckle dragging existence. 

 

Sometimes, you have to say it like it is. Even if that means upsetting the knitting club of whiny, little wusses (is that gentler for you, dear?) that just can’t accept the reality of a given situation even after two and a half years. It’s pitiful. 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Perhaps in your un-evolved, knuckle dragging existence. 

 

Sometimes, you have to say it like it is. Even if that means upsetting the knitting club of whiny, little wusses (is that gentler for you, dear?) that just can’t accept the reality of a given situation even after two and a half years. It’s pitiful. 

 

 

 

 

I really hope you weren't like this in the break room with the other secretaries at OBD.    

 

You are clearly at the end of your rope........that's when people pull out the "you are a B word or N word which makes you less human than me so I don't have to entertain your thoughts" train of thought.   

 

You probably should just be ignoring the topic instead of showing us your pimply bare azz.

 

Trading the pick used to select Mahomes to the team that defeated you in Buffalo for a chance to go to Super Bowl I..........and has almost single handedly knocked the Bills out of playoff contention like 3 times in the last 6 years..............I mean it could get WORSE........like Mahomes winning a SB this year(God FORBID).......but it's really bad.

 

Chin up though........McBeane still have their chance to make it right even if you have already thrown in the towel.

[Element115]

23 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Perhaps in your un-evolved, knuckle dragging existence. 

 

Sometimes, you have to say it like it is. Even if that means upsetting the knitting club of whiny, little wusses (is that gentler for you, dear?) that just can’t accept the reality of a given situation even after two and a half years. It’s pitiful. 

 

 

 

You should get a warning point for bypassing the filter. 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I really hope you weren't like this in the break room with the other secretaries at OBD.    

 

You are clearly at the end of your rope........that's when people pull out the "you are a B word or N word which makes you less human than me so I don't have to entertain your thoughts" train of thought.   

 

You probably should just be ignoring the topic instead of showing us your pimply bare azz.

 

Trading the pick used to select Mahomes to the team that defeated you in Buffalo for a chance to go to Super Bowl I..........and has almost single handedly knocked the Bills out of playoff contention like 3 times in the last 6 years..............I mean it could get WORSE........like Mahomes winning a SB this year(God FORBID).......but it's really bad.

 

Chin up though........McBeane still have their chance to make it right even if you have already thrown in the towel.

 

LMAO! I’ll have to add “self-righteous, sanctimonious, hypocrite” to my list of Badobilz synonyms. 

 

You’re still butt hurt about SB I?!   Poor little whiny baby, there’s just no getting over losing Mahomes for you is there? I hope Mahomes DOES win a SB, just to see if your level of toddler tantrum could reach a new level. My money is on you, Baby Hughey.

 

 

[Zerovoltz]

On 8/28/2019 at 10:45 PM, Augie said:

I’m confident we can get a steal at #32. 

 

So....trading with KC again then?