Carl Paladino: Put new stadium in Cobblestone district

[thenorthremembers]

On 8/5/2019 at 7:02 AM, May Day 10 said:

I dont care if its uber, lyft, horse and buggy, rickshaws, palanquins, or liberty cab.  The street pattern out of perry street/cobblestone is the same single lane gridlock going in 1 to 2 directions.  

 

I would bet a large majority of people who attend bills games live outside the city limits as well.  Unlike other cities.

 

I have been to plenty of venues across the country, and most of them are tucked into an interstate(s).  Drivers empty out right onto the highway and disappear. 

 

Its not that i am against a downtown stadium.  Ill probably be 50 by then and ready for a go out for a beer, then attrnd a game experience.  I just believe the cost and heavy lift of putting a stadium downtown is much more prohibitive than building one in orchard park by the existing one.

I agree.  Trying to get in and out of Sabres games is a mess.   I drive from near Lake Ontario and its a pain to get back on the thruway. 

 

Keep it in Orchard Park, for God's sake.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, RiotAct said:

true, but let’s look at the “out of” part of that equation.

 

On a typical downtown workday, you have people leaving work during a very spread-out time window (roughly 3:30 - 5:30 PM), from several different lots and parking garages within the area bounded by Oak (east), Lower Terrace (west), Goodell (north), and Exchange (south)

 

With a football game, the vast majority of those people will all be trying to leave at the same time, AND they’ll be leaving the exact same location.  i.e., shitshow with the current infrastructure.  the 

 

EDITED TO ADD: okay, mostly the same location.  Sure there will be some people who park over a mile away and walk, but...

 

 

I would agree it would be bad if everyone parked there and tried to leave at the same time, but look at other stadiums downtown- Baltimore, Cincinnati, Detroit, etc.  they have parking for about 8-10,000 cars around the stadium at most. For example: You have to use the light rail in Baltimore that drops you off right at the stadium.  

 

Buffalo already has the free light rail metro service that deliver people from other areas down to the Harbor.  Not to mention the fact that some of the concerts down town have attracted 40,000+ just to canal side - so the volume of people can be handled.

 

The experience will be vastly different from the OP experience and the first couple of preseason/regular season games will be a nightmare- just as it is in OP when they changed the traffic patterns a couple of years ago and no one knew where they were going.  Then everyone settled into a pattern and people meet up and it becomes a new normal.

 

 

 

 

[LabattBlue]

Unless they can find a way to squeeze a stadium into the cobblestone lots and the HSBC atrium site, having the Indian casino where it is currently located, could provide a formidable challenge trying to fit a new stadium into Pegulaville.

 

Also, in terms of the Perry projects, the "newer" occupied towers are closer to the casino, and the abandoned low rise building are further away from the Cobblestone area...located between Louisiana and Hamburg Sts.  Probably the best bet would be to move all of this subsidized housing somewhere in the East Side, where you have blocks and blocks of streets that for the most part are vacant lots....and use the space for parking.

 

I'm not good at overlaying in GoogleMaps, but I'd like to know if the Colts dome, could fit in the area(cobblestone lots and HSBC atrium) I mentioned at the beginning of this post.

[ColoradoBills]

24 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Unless they can find a way to squeeze a stadium into the cobblestone lots and the HSBC atrium site, having the Indian casino where it is currently located, could provide a formidable challenge trying to fit a new stadium into Pegulaville.

 

Also, in terms of the Perry projects, the "newer" occupied towers are closer to the casino, and the abandoned low rise building are further away from the Cobblestone area...located between Louisiana and Hamburg Sts.  Probably the best bet would be to move all of this subsidized housing somewhere in the East Side, where you have blocks and blocks of streets that for the most part are vacant lots....and use the space for parking.

 

I'm not good at overlaying in GoogleMaps, but I'd like to know if the Colts dome, could fit in the area(cobblestone lots and HSBC atrium) I mentioned at the beginning of this post.

 

Google the following:   19ideas.com/stadium/

The link is acting a little squirrely to post.

EDIT:  The link is OK now.

 

This site was from the old board and you can use it to put the stadium anywhere in western new york.

Once you double click and get the stadium to drag around maximize the window.

It's pretty fun to check out places.

Edited August 8, 2019 by ColoradoBills

[Punching Bag]

40 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Google the following:   19ideas.com/stadium/

The link is acting a little squirrely to post.

EDIT:  The link is OK now.

 

This site was from the old board and you can use it to put the stadium anywhere in western new york.

Once you double click and get the stadium to drag around maximize the window.

It's pretty fun to check out places.

 

Didn't find a place to put the stadium but found Penn Dixie Fossil Park & Nature Reserve where I used to go when I was a kid.  I lived in Steelton.  Some scientists came one day looking for fossils and I showed them area where trilobite fossils were predominant. Pulled one from my stash and they said it was the largest of that species they have seen and asked if museum could have it. I said fine.  They took a look at it closely and told me I did a tremendous job excavating it and I explained my method and they told me "Very scientific.  You have potential to be a paleontologist."   Saw them a couple of weeks later and asked when it would be in museum and they told me they used it for barter to another museum for another item they did not have.

[LabattBlue]

3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Google the following:   19ideas.com/stadium/

The link is acting a little squirrely to post.

EDIT:  The link is OK now.

 

This site was from the old board and you can use it to put the stadium anywhere in western new york.

Once you double click and get the stadium to drag around maximize the window.

It's pretty fun to check out places.

Thx!

[Jrb1979]

6 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

I agree.  Trying to get in and out of Sabres games is a mess.   I drive from near Lake Ontario and its a pain to get back on the thruway. 

 

Keep it in Orchard Park, for God's sake.

I have never had an issue getting in or out for Sabres games and I live in Niagara Canada. I usually park at the parking garage across from the thru-way and walk. After games I go grab a drink waiting for traffic to clear. 

[ALF]

Ch 2 news reports NY approves $1.3B  project for NHL Islanders new Arena 

 

https://pix11.com/2019/08/08/islanders-belmont-arena-plans-approved-by-ny-state/

 

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/politics/belmont-islanders-empire-state-development-1.34784916

Edited August 9, 2019 by ALF

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, ALF said:

Ch 2 news reports NY approves $1.3B  project for NHL Islanders new Arena 

 

https://pix11.com/2019/08/08/islanders-belmont-arena-plans-approved-by-ny-state/

 

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/politics/belmont-islanders-empire-state-development-1.34784916

 

I believe that project is almost entirely financed with private money, aside from a new train station ($105 million, of which the developer is reimbursing the state for $97 million over 40 years)....

[Fan in San Diego]

On 8/7/2019 at 7:22 AM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

You do realize there are cities with metro populations in the millions, several times larger than Buffalo, by a lakes, oceans and rivers, with multiple downtown arenas and stadiums, that somehow manage the traffic? You have yet to give a reasoned explanation why Buffalo would be paralyzed by a downtown stadium, and these other cities aren't?

Look at San Diego, Petco park is very close to the ocean. The convention center next to Petco is on the ocean. See comic con at the convention center. Somehow SD handles the traffic. Trolleys and trains.

[ALF]

I  was wishing for state help for a new or remodel of New Era. It would be nice if outside help for Terry and Kim for new stadium or remodel.

[Fan in San Diego]

Have the Pegulas buy the old Fort Erie Race Track and put the new stadium there.

 

Problem solved.

[Solomon Grundy]

18 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Unless they can find a way to squeeze a stadium into the cobblestone lots and the HSBC atrium site, having the Indian casino where it is currently located, could provide a formidable challenge trying to fit a new stadium into Pegulaville.

 

Also, in terms of the Perry projects, the "newer" occupied towers are closer to the casino, and the abandoned low rise building are further away from the Cobblestone area...located between Louisiana and Hamburg Sts.  Probably the best bet would be to move all of this subsidized housing somewhere in the East Side, where you have blocks and blocks of streets that for the most part are vacant lots....and use the space for parking.

 

I'm not good at overlaying in GoogleMaps, but I'd like to know if the Colts dome, could fit in the area(cobblestone lots and HSBC atrium) I mentioned at the beginning of this post.

Why have the "subsidized housing" on the East Side??? Maybe renovate some of the abandoned buildings around the city (east, west, north, south) and turn them all into some type of subsidized housing.

[PromoTheRobot]

11 minutes ago, Fan in San Diego said:

Have the Pegulas buy the old Fort Erie Race Track and put the new stadium there.

 

Problem solved.

 

For Canadians. All US fans have to cross the border at the Peace Bridge, whose CBP staffs have all been reassigned to the Mexican border.

[ALF]

I like the present location , remodel  or indoor. 

[John in Jax]

On 8/2/2019 at 7:13 AM, Rochesterfan said:

If they extend the “subway” and the rail line - you could funnel the people in and out and maintain space for 20,000 people parking around the stadium.  Plus with the hotels, food, bars, and casino - there are things to do after the game to enjoy the area. 

 

I've never been a regular attendee of NFL games, but when I have gone, I get there HOURS early to tailgate, then spend 3-4 hours inside the stadium for the game, then head back out to the lot and tailgate and/or let traffic thin out for a while, then after all that, I'm ready to head home and relax, and prep for work the next day.

 

So my question is: how many people are looking to "do things" after the game?! For me, that would extend it from an 8-hour day to a 9-12 hour day, on a Sunday night.....No thanks. Lol

Edited August 9, 2019 by John in Jax

[SoCal Deek]

I was amazed in London. They were able to empty Wembley Stadium in a just few minutes, all via mass transit (The Tube).  They line up the trains after a big event and away everyone goes.  Super organized!

[LabattBlue]

3 hours ago, the skycap said:

Why have the "subsidized housing" on the East Side??? Maybe renovate some of the abandoned buildings around the city (east, west, north, south) and turn them all into some type of subsidized housing.

Just a suggestion because of the vacant lots.       Point being there are options if they need to use the current space around Perry St for either the stadium or parking.  

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, John in Jax said:

 

I've never been a regular attendee of NFL games, but when I have gone, I get there HOURS early to tailgate, then spend 3-4 hours inside the stadium for the game, then head back out to the lot and tailgate and/or let traffic thin out for a while, then after all that, I'm ready to head home and relax, and prep for work the next day.

 

So my question is: how many people are looking to "do things" after the game?! For me, that would extend it from an 8-hour day to a 9-12 hour day, on a Sunday night.....No thanks. Lol

 

 

If you go to many other stadiums - tailgating is very limited. 

 

If they build the stadium downtown - your couple of hours before and after - will be spent differently.  If they build tailgating lots a bit away from the stadium - then you can do the exact same thing there as in OP.  

 

Many others will come in and find a place to park near bars and restaurants- some will eat and drink before hand - some will meet up with their friends.  You watch the game and you can hit up some bars afterwards to eat/drink and watch more games or you can leave.

 

The experience will change some, but you still control what you want to do.  You can keep it at 8 hours, you can shorten it to 5 or 6 hours, you can extend it until after 2am if you want.  

 

 

[Misterbluesky]

Looks like the Islanders (ice hockey) are getting a new expensive arena.

Thanks,Albany.

[Lurker]

1 minute ago, Misterbluesky said:

Looks like the Islanders (ice hockey) are getting a new expensive arena.

Thanks,Albany.

 

1 minute ago, Misterbluesky said:

Looks like the Islanders (ice hockey) are getting a new expensive arena.

Thanks,Albany.

Privately funded...

[John in Jax]

3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

If you go to many other stadiums - tailgating is very limited. 

Just curious as I left town in the late 70s, but isn't tailgating an integral part of being a Bills fan....of the Buffalo fan experience? And won't they lose a LOT of fans if they take that away?

[Hammered a Lot]

On 8/8/2019 at 3:33 PM, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

I would agree it would be bad if everyone parked there and tried to leave at the same time, but look at other stadiums downtown- Baltimore, Cincinnati, Detroit, etc.  they have parking for about 8-10,000 cars around the stadium at most. For example: You have to use the light rail in Baltimore that drops you off right at the stadium.  

 

Buffalo already has the free light rail metro service that deliver people from other areas down to the Harbor.  Not to mention the fact that some of the concerts down town have attracted 40,000+ just to canal side - so the volume of people can be handled.

 

The experience will be vastly different from the OP experience and the first couple of preseason/regular season games will be a nightmare- just as it is in OP when they changed the traffic patterns a couple of years ago and no one knew where they were going.  Then everyone settled into a pattern and people meet up and it becomes a new normal.

 

 

 

 

Buffalo light rail 6 miles Baltimore 21 miles Big difference. 40,000 for concerts at canalside??? I doubt that highly. Guns and Roses was in the 30,000s at NEF. 

[BigDingus]

Just a random question, is Buffalo still losing people year over year, or has it stabled out/started gaining people again?

I know the business landscape has changed quite a bit, but last time I was there it seemed like a lot was needed in infrastructure & renovations. Never lived there, but I love the place so much & am always fascinated reading about the area.

A new stadium would go a long way in securing the team, but I know it's not so simple. I only wish we had done it sooner, as other rust belt/midwest teams managed to find a way & not break the bank. It's only getting more & more expensive as time goes on, so hopefully a solution is in sight.

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, Hammered a Lot said:

Buffalo light rail 6 miles Baltimore 21 miles Big difference. 40,000 for concerts at canalside??? I doubt that highly. Guns and Roses was in the 30,000s at NEF. 

 

 

From a 2016 AP article about regrowth downtown in Buffalo with Canalside.

https://www.apnews.com/411cf9338ef74df8b77279ef6899ae42

 

“BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) — Buffalo’s blossoming Lake Erie waterfront district saw a surge in tourist visits over the summer.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s office says Canalside crowds topped 1.5 million people, up from 1 million a year ago.

Planners have added more food venues and scheduled more concerts, cultural events and other draws to an area that until recently offered little to visitors.

The Thursday night concert series drew 133,000 people, with artist T-Pain seeing the biggest crowd of 40,000.“

 

This was from 2016 - and the number of visitors have continued to grow.

 

That is also a Thursday night and people start arriving downtown before people start leaving work - so it handled the initial incoming traffic and outgoing work bound traffic.

 

The 6 miles of light rail is enough to spread out the parking across the city.  I also believe they would need to utilize the Amtrak line that runs North and South, but does have a downtown drop-off already right near the 190 and Michigan just east of the area.  That would allow the creation of some larger “Tailgating” lots in the more spread out Southtowns if they want that.

 

The concerts routinely draw 25,000 people and those are just the people at the concert - there are hoards of other people in the area that are not counted within the concert goers.  I believe they routinely handle 30-40,000 people on the concert nights - it is again a spread out leaving time, but the number of people is not going to be the issue. It is going to be traffic flow and timing on the routes that will need work.  The logistics will be a bear to work out.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Rochesterfan

[Jrb1979]

11 hours ago, John in Jax said:

Just curious as I left town in the late 70s, but isn't tailgating an integral part of being a Bills fan....of the Buffalo fan experience? And won't they lose a LOT of fans if they take that away?

They want to limit tailgating, in hopes of limiting the obnoxious drunks that go to the games. The Bills may lose a lot of tailgating fanbase but will gain a bunch of fans that want a more family friendly environment. 

[Sanners]

On 8/8/2019 at 3:10 PM, jeremy2020 said:

 

Yea, why should people be able to live in the area they work in...and poor people give up their rights by being poor when it inconveniences me.

It’s not only poor people Jeremy. There was a bunch of news of people renting apartments there due to location that had serious means. I have no problem with poor people living there, but at the very least the HUD should remodel or rebuild. It is a disgusting eye sore. Period. 

[PromoTheRobot]

On 8/10/2019 at 7:44 AM, Jrb1979 said:

They want to limit tailgating, in hopes of limiting the obnoxious drunks that go to the games. The Bills may lose a lot of tailgating fanbase but will gain a bunch of fans that want a more family friendly environment. 

 

Plus they want to funnel some of those fans to bars and restaurants inside the stadium or around town that the Pegulas might own or have a cut of.  You don't make money off tailgating. 

[ALF]

Paladino offers BMHA $1 for 53 empty buildings in Perry housing neighborhood

 

https://news.wbfo.org/post/paladino-offers-bmha-1-53-empty-buildings-perry-housing-neighborhood

[cba fan]

On 8/2/2019 at 1:21 PM, SoTier said:

 

If you are talking about the CBD, yes it is mostly empty because  most buildings are filled with traditional 9-5, M-F type enterprises, but there are businesses there -- mostly restaurants, bars, gyms, theaters, etc.   Most are small places, but that doesn't mean that they should be kicked to the curb in order to build a sports palace that's used maybe 30 times a year at best.  Moreover,  'Downtown' is more than the CBD; Canalside and Erie Basin Marina are part of downtown, too, and the businesses there are packed on Sundays, especially in the summer and early fall.  The buildings these businesses in are on the tax rolls; a city/county/state owned stadium wouldn't be.

 

There are about 5-7k people living in the CBD and the outlying parts of downtown like Waterfront Village, Johnson Park,  the Theatre District. These people would find their lives signifcantly impacted by crowds of 70k people filling their streets, parking illegally, etc  The residents of the Marine Drive apartments and the Waterfront Village would find it difficult if not  impossible to get in or out of their neighborhoods on game days/nights.

so build it further into the Perry Projects then.

 

and all the complaints are just weird. So I would not buy a house I like and want due to 10 days a year I will see a football crowd around the area for about half the day? A day I can sell 25 or more parking spaces on my yard for $25 to $50 per car? With my older family taking care of that $1200 profit every game while I walk a couple blocks and go to the game?

[stuvian]

We have the best tailgate in the entire league because we are not downtown in a major city. There are no good downtown NFL tailgates. If it moves downtown we lose what we enjoy today. Long live Orchard Park 

[Fan in San Diego]

40 minutes ago, cba fan said:

so build it further into the Perry Projects then.

 

and all the complaints are just weird. So I would not buy a house I like and want due to 10 days a year I will see a football crowd around the area for about half the day? A day I can sell 25 or more parking spaces on my yard for $25 to $50 per car? With my older family taking care of that $1200 profit every game while I walk a couple blocks and go to the game?

I have a friend in Dallas who does exactly this. He is laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

14 minutes ago, stuvian said:

We have the best tailgate in the entire league because we are not downtown in a major city. There are no good downtown NFL tailgates. If it moves downtown we lose what we enjoy today. Long live Orchard Park 

 

 

Nobody loves the tailgate more than I but I don't think a downtown stadium will take the party out of Bills fans.    

 

Tailgating is about the people and it's what we do.    There might be a few more limitations......no open flames etc......but Bills fans take the tailgate with them everywhere right now so I have a hard time thinking it would ever turn into a "show up an hour before the game" or "just tailgate with a veggie tray with the people in your car" environment.

[stuvian]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Nobody loves the tailgate more than I but I don't think a downtown stadium will take the party out of Bills fans.    

 

Tailgating is about the people and it's what we do.    There might be a few more limitations......no open flames etc......but Bills fans take the tailgate with them everywhere right now so I have a hard time thinking it would ever turn into a "show up an hour before the game" or "just tailgate with a veggie tray with the people in your car" environment.

Name one good downtown tailgate in the NFL?  BTW do you work for Roger Goodell ? 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, stuvian said:

Name one good downtown tailgate in the NFL?  BTW do you work for Roger Goodell ? 

 

 

Name one that was good BEFORE it was moved downtown and then sucked.

 

OP is fine right now and maybe for the next 5 or even 10 years.........but long term there is a trade-off if the Bills want to compete enough financially for it to be worthwhile for the large markets to continue to share revenue with them.     A modern, downtown environment would create the opportunity for more revenue.

[Don Otreply]

Arguments can certainly be made for both locations. The biggest draw back for the Pegula’s is the fans who get drunk for the games, the potential liability is through the roof, this can not be argued.  If the fans were even a little self policing it would likely not be as big a problem for them, but they aren’t.  In fact fans outwardly encourage the behavior.  So what’s an owner to do?  Build the new stadium we’re that style of tailgating is naturally curtailed, where the location complements their other massive investments, why in the world would they do that??  hmmm...,

 

Go Bills!!!

Edited August 12, 2019 by Don Otreply

[C.Biscuit97]

17 hours ago, ALF said:

Paladino offers BMHA $1 for 53 empty buildings in Perry housing neighborhood

 

https://news.wbfo.org/post/paladino-offers-bmha-1-53-empty-buildings-perry-housing-neighborhood

They better not do anything to give that racist idiot a cent. 

[mjd1001]

On 8/2/2019 at 5:25 PM, Formerly Allan in MD said:

If you think an NFL stadium doesn't attract commerce, check out the Pat's pad.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you, but there are a lot of key differences between Foxboro and here (Orchard park or anywhere else)

 

-The pats stadium (And Patriot place) is within 30-40 miles of a couple million people who have pretty easy access to the area.

-Whether it was in 'patriot place' or not...that area is a much better area in general to support a bunch of restaurants, a luxury theater, a mini-mall and a Bass pro.  Not only because of my point above (population density) but also the wealth in the area. A lot of BIG companies, a lot of TECH companies employ a lot of people and pay high wages right off of Rt. 128 not too far from the Stadium.

-Having lived in the area a while back and visiting the area a couple times per year...Patriot place isn't a slam-dunk as it is.  Stores come in and close down every year, and when you visit there on a Summer afternoon sometimes..I wonder why even more don't close down because it can be a ghost town in some of those shops.

 

An NFL stadium may help attract commerce to a certain extent, but you aren't going to get even a 'mini Patriot place" unless they area was already 80% of the way there to support that kind of thing before the stadium.  I don't think there is a place in WNY where we could have that now...due to population density and wealth.

Edited August 12, 2019 by mjd1001

[Solomon Grundy]

19 hours ago, ALF said:

Paladino offers BMHA $1 for 53 empty buildings in Perry housing neighborhood

 

https://news.wbfo.org/post/paladino-offers-bmha-1-53-empty-buildings-perry-housing-neighborhood

The Pegula's should offer them $5. Go to Hades Carl Paladino!!

[PromoTheRobot]

37 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm not totally disagreeing with you, but there are a lot of key differences between Foxboro and here (Orchard park or anywhere else)

 

-The pats stadium (And Patriot place) is within 30-40 miles of a couple million people who have pretty easy access to the area.

-Whether it was in 'patriot place' or not...that area is a much better area in general to support a bunch of restaurants, a luxury theater, a mini-mall and a Bass pro.  Not only because of my point above (population density) but also the wealth in the area. A lot of BIG companies, a lot of TECH companies employ a lot of people and pay high wages right off of Rt. 128 not too far from the Stadium.

-Having lived in the area a while back and visiting the area a couple times per year...Patriot place isn't a slam-dunk as it is.  Stores come in and close down every year, and when you visit there on a Summer afternoon sometimes..I wonder why even more don't close down because it can be a ghost town in some of those shops.

 

An NFL stadium may help attract commerce to a certain extent, but you aren't going to get even a 'mini Patriot place" unless they area was already 80% of the way there to support that kind of thing before the stadium.  I don't think there is a place in WNY where we could have that now...due to population density and wealth.

 

Actually Gillette and Patriot Place are in suburban nowhere. Miles from Boston or Providence. Also, you want to talk access? Rt.1 north or south are the only way in or out. It's a zoo post game.