2019 Wonderlic scores/Bob McGinn

[YoloinOhio]

This account has a lot of tweets today about The reports from Bob McGinn (former Packers beat writer/bobmcginnfootball.com who talks to a lot of scouts and then writes a report every year). Also dropped some scores fwiw 

 

 

 

 

 

QB scores (according to NYG board)

Ryan Finley 43
2. Gardner Minshew 42
3. Daniel Jones 37
4. Easton Stick 32
5. Clayton Thorson 32
6. Will Grier 30
7. Brett Rypien 28
8. Jarrett Stidham 27
9. Drew Lock 26
10. Tyree Jackson 25
11. Dwayne Haskins 25
12. Kyler Murray 20

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=581991

Edited April 22, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[RocCityRoller]

interesting insights

[1ManRaid]

Oof, Hock it is then.

[Aussie Joe]

Wow... Lots of anonymous bagging out going on..

 

So let’s draft Oliver, Fant and Metcalf..

[Gugny]

Wonderlic only matters when it comes to QBs.  All of these QBs scored well.

[YoloinOhio]

17 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Wonderlic only matters when it comes to QBs.  All of these QBs scored well.

I would be interested in the wonderlic score for a C and a MLB.

 

edit: I looked up ours for fun

Morse: 29

Edmunds: 22

Edited April 22, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I would be interested in the wonderlic score for a C and a MLB.

 

The bar is much lower for a kick returner, but Leodis reminds us that it’s not irrelevant. 

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Wonderlic only matters when it comes to QBs.  All of these QBs scored well.

 

 

It matters if it's crazy low.

 

If it's like Leodis McKelvin or CJ Spiller low then it will most likely surface as it did with them.

 

A lot of what people perceive is "instinctive" reaction are movements sped up by the ability to process seemingly basic info and be in better position to make plays.

 

Like as a RB being able to recognize where the hole is going to be on a run play based on an observation of the defensive alignment when you already know the play and line calls.     CJ clearly never knew where he was going until he got the ball.........which *sometimes* resulted in defenses over-pursuing to the expected point of contact and CJ running to daylight for huge gains somewhere else entirely.........but more often resulted in some seemingly inexplicable runs into his OL backs while the hole was on the other side of the field in All-22.

 

Leodis was the same way in coverage.    His elite speed wasn't enough to cover for his inability to recognize where the ball was going in time to react "instinctively".  

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[Augie]

 

 

Mr.........” I’d do it again” can’t be forgotten. 

[Logic]

That stuff about San Jose State was my favorite.

Ouch. Very ouch.

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

That stuff about San Jose State was my favorite.

Ouch. Very ouch.

How do you not have a training table? And what is a “horses” program? 

[Logic]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

How do you not have a training table? And what is a “horses” program? 

It's saying horse s h i t.

That's why the s and then the -------

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Logic said:

It's saying horse s h i t.

That's why the s and then the -------

Oh.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

[Logic]

I always love reading this stuff, and I'm sure there are plenty of kernels of truth. On the other side of the coin, though, is this:

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/172974292/nfl-draft-anonymous-scouts

The Psychology of the Anonymous Scout

One may wonder why scouts speak anonymously to the media in the first place. What's in it for them? Some believe that it's to drive draft prospects down for the benefit of their teams, though any general manager or head coach putting his draft board together based on what a bunch of guys said in a newspaper or online should probably be looking for alternate employment....

More to the point, Jeremiah believes, is the gradual diminishment of the scout in most front offices. It's not like it used to be, when super-scouts like Jack Butler, Jack Vainisi and Bill Nunn drove so much of the personnel pipeline to teams that drifted on their evaluation talent and were recognized as such. Nowadays, scouts are primarily well-traveled clerks, whose work is mere fodder for the alleged bigger brains higher up the food chain.

"The media and the general public ... a quote will come out from an anonymous scout, just ripping a player, which I totally don't agree with," said Jeremiah. "I don't think that's your place to trash a kid. I don't believe in that. And the second part is, they'll get railed at for not putting their name on it. And I'm thinking, 'You do realize that if any scout puts his name on something like that, he's done. He's fired. It's over.' And he might be shut out around the league, because he has a reputation as a guy who talks to the media. So, that's not even feasible. It's not happening."

It would be extremely valuable for media and fans to hear from scouts on a regular -- and regulated -- basis. It would add to the discussion of player value and projection, and it would allow those scouts who have seen their roles diminish to have a more prominent voice.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Logic

[Turk71]

I don't think it is off base to be skeptical of Metcalf and the hype surrounding him. The game of football is not being played at the combine or in the weight room.

[whatdrought]

JJ Arcega-Whiteside is a guy who, if he was there in the third, I’d be happy with. Just seems like a poor mans AJ Green where you know you’re gonna get 50-60 catches, 800 yards, and a couple great contested TDs each year. Seens like a perfect fit for what we have right now.

[Steve Billieve]

The only correlation wonderlic has to NFL success is for cbs and its negative.

[row_33]

8 hours ago, Augie said:

 

The bar is much lower for a kick returner, but Leodis reminds us that it’s not irrelevant. 

 

if not at draft time, then certainly after involvement in 40 or so kick returns

 

 

[Juice_32]

I’ve been on the Oliver train for a while. I’d love him in the 4th.

[wppete]

QB, Josh Allen score was 37

 

Anyone wants to try it for fun here you go.....

https://samplewonderlictest.com/

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by wppete

[row_33]

i got all 15 right on the mini-quiz, i wouldn't make a good QB though

[C.Biscuit97]

Are their bigger cowards than anonymous sources?  These guys talk real reckless about 21 years old when they can’t even put their name on it.  You can hear the bitterness of how these guys lives turned out in this comments.  

 

And it’s overrated but I’m really starting to like Butler. I hope he makes it to the 2nd.

13 hours ago, whatdrought said:

JJ Arcega-Whiteside is a guy who, if he was there in the third, I’d be happy with. Just seems like a poor mans AJ Green where you know you’re gonna get 50-60 catches, 800 yards, and a couple great contested TDs each year. Seens like a perfect fit for what we have right now.

Do you know about his times in the shuttle?  I love Stanford guys but he seemed more like a jump ball guy than actual starting nfl receiver. 

13 hours ago, Turk71 said:

I don't think it is off base to be skeptical of Metcalf and the hype surrounding him. The game of football is not being played at the combine or in the weight room.

This is where I’m at at. I just saw a show with him and he seems like a great dude but I think people are in love with stuff that doesn’t matter in being a successful receiver. 

[Lurker]

14 hours ago, Logic said:

I always love reading this stuff, and I'm sure there are plenty of kernels of truth. On the other side of the coin, though, is this:

 

That may apply 98% of the time to the rubes and Rodaks of the world--but McGinn's the 2% exception to the rule.  He's a bonafide legend and probably the best guy in the business for getting scouts to spill the real beans off the record.

 

Are some still blowing smoke up his chimney?   Probably, but he's savvy enough to know when that's happening...    

[Formerly Allan in MD]

15 hours ago, Gugny said:

Wonderlic only matters when it comes to QBs.  All of these QBs scored well.

Wrong!  If you're not too bright you may not be very coachable.  And everyone needs to know the playbook, aside from quarterbacks.  Conversely, if quarterbacks must do well on Wonderlic to be successful, how does one explain someone like Terry Bradshaw?

[eball]

Just now, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Wrong!  If you're not too bright you may not be very coachable.  And everyone needs to know the playbook, aside from quarterbacks.  Conversely, if quarterbacks must do well on Wonderlic to be successful, how does one explain someone like Terry Bradshaw?

 

Different era.  Also, Steel Curtain defense, Franco Harris, Lynn Swann, and John Stallworth.

[Gugny]

15 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Wrong!  If you're not too bright you may not be very coachable.  And everyone needs to know the playbook, aside from quarterbacks.  Conversely, if quarterbacks must do well on Wonderlic to be successful, how does one explain someone like Terry Bradshaw?

 

There is a clear cutoff between 2000-present and 1999 and earlier, with regard to the ability for the Wonderlic to be somewhat predictive when it comes to POSSIBLE quarterback success.

 

Bradshaw, Marino and Kelly were collectively about as smart as a piece of driftwood.  It was a different NFL, then.

 

I agree that a very low score for, say, a CB, would be troublesome.  I've only looked into QBs' scores and whether they've been successful.  I haven't looked at other positions.

[C.Biscuit97]

39 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Different era.  Also, Steel Curtain defense, Franco Harris, Lynn Swann, and John Stallworth.

He was before my time and I know he was the QB of 4 SB winners, but his numbers kinda sucked.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTe00.htm

[BADOLBILZ]

15 hours ago, Turk71 said:

I don't think it is off base to be skeptical of Metcalf and the hype surrounding him. The game of football is not being played at the combine or in the weight room.

 

 

In fairness,  Metcalf was considered a 1st or 2nd round prospect even before the season.........if you follow it he had adamant supporters from the get-go..........he didn't jump up 3-5 rounds because of his combine workout.

 

In HIS case the 40 time just explained and verified the kinda' ridiculous tape where he is just blowing DB's away on deep routes.

 

The clean bill of health was the most important thing.............because the biggest question with him has to be durability.    His "floor" is "can't stay healthy".

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

In fairness,  Metcalf was considered a 1st or 2nd round prospect even before the season.........if you follow it he had adamant supporters from the get-go..........he didn't jump up 3-5 rounds because of his combine workout.

 

In HIS case the 40 time just explained and verified the kinda' ridiculous tape where he is just blowing DB's away on deep routes.

 

The clean bill of health was the most important thing.............because the biggest question with him has to be durability.    His "floor" is "can't stay healthy".

 

 

But wasn’t it more because of his physical attributes?  He had 39 catches last year.  He was having a better season this year but broke his neck.  I’m not totally against him but there are a ton of red flags. 

[BADOLBILZ]

36 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But wasn’t it more because of his physical attributes?  He had 39 catches last year.  He was having a better season this year but broke his neck.  I’m not totally against him but there are a ton of red flags. 

 

 

No doubt he is a huge risk based on what we know right now.

 

While there are cautionary tales for sure about workout warriors not all low producing freak talents fail.

 

Josh Allen is one we obviously hope doesn't.

 

But for Metcalf the more apt comparison to me is Jevon Kearse.

 

I had him as the second best player in the 1999 draft.   He played LB and didn't produce much in a scheme that wasn't suited to his skills.  I see Metcalf the same way.   The system and QB's he had didn't really mesh with his strengths so you have to project.

 

 I was sweating bullets as Kearse fell toward the Bill but  to my devastation the long-middling Tennessee Titans snatched him up at pick #16 and he went on to help propel that lifeless franchise to a SB appearance and another year with the best record in the AFC.    A freak talent like that can be the difference between staying on the porch and running with the big dogs.   Antoine Winfield was a nice consolation prize and had a long, quality career but he never had near the impact on the league that "The Freak" had in those first 3 years where he was arguably the most feared defensive player in football.    Imagine him playing in Wade Phillips 3-4 instead of as an undersized DE in Greggo's D.      

 

We have a lot of folks on here who worry about "not making a profit" with the first round pick.    But the objective isn't to be 9-7...........you might save your job for a year or two doing that as a HC but you will most certainly go broke if you don't do A LOT better.    The objective is to be great.    I've long believed that the Bills will only break thru by force of talent.......and I certainly don't expect McD to ever be able to match wits with BB............an overwhelming roster with a lot of matchup winners is the best chance to get there.    

Edited April 22, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[row_33]

2 hours ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Wrong!  If you're not too bright you may not be very coachable.  And everyone needs to know the playbook, aside from quarterbacks.  Conversely, if quarterbacks must do well on Wonderlic to be successful, how does one explain someone like Terry Bradshaw?

 

what exactly do you mean about Terry?  He has done a great job playing his role on football panels for decades now, almost completed a full smacking of Letterman's face one night (too bad he held back....)

 

he called his own plays as well, that eliminates another party yelling at you and you having to figure out what they really meant when the shotclock was winding down

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, row_33 said:

i got all 15 right on the mini-quiz, i wouldn't make a good QB though

 

Sure ya did.  No pic then it didn’t happen.

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

"Rashan Gary whose started his Own Agency"

 

In a tweet about a low Wonderlic score?   Chad must be going for a Darwin award...

[Turk71]

8 hours ago, wppete said:

QB, Josh Allen score was 37

 

Anyone wants to try it for fun here you go.....

https://samplewonderlictest.com/

 

 

 

48. https://samplewonderlictest.com/result/636249

  That wasn't really that much fun.? You have to go really fast.

They should have all the questions on the same page. 

   My QB days are long over, maybe I could be a clock management consultant.

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

"Rashan Gary whose started his Own Agency"

 

In a tweet about a low Wonderlic score?   Chad must be going for a Darwin award...

He thinks whose is a contraction for 'who has'. 

[mcdamit]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

my nephew played with him in high school.  every one said he was a good team mate.  also said he was cocky and really wants to be a giant . 

he also told a funny story about the time during his freshaman year they let him play running back for one play.  He was so much bigger then everyone else he ran for 85 yards on his first carry.   

[Beast]

Since we don’t need a QB, I really am not too concerned about these scores.

[Coach Tuesday]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

No doubt he is a huge risk based on what we know right now.

 

While there are cautionary tales for sure about workout warriors not all low producing freak talents fail.

 

Josh Allen is one we obviously hope doesn't.

 

But for Metcalf the more apt comparison to me is Jevon Kearse.

 

I had him as the second best player in the 1999 draft.   He played LB and didn't produce much in a scheme that wasn't suited to his skills.  I see Metcalf the same way.   The system and QB's he had didn't really mesh with his strengths so you have to project.

 

 I was sweating bullets as Kearse fell toward the Bill but  to my devastation the long-middling Tennessee Titans snatched him up at pick #16 and he went on to help propel that lifeless franchise to a SB appearance and another year with the best record in the AFC.    A freak talent like that can be the difference between staying on the porch and running with the big dogs.   Antoine Winfield was a nice consolation prize and had a long, quality career but he never had near the impact on the league that "The Freak" had in those first 3 years where he was arguably the most feared defensive player in football.    Imagine him playing in Wade Phillips 3-4 instead of as an undersized DE in Greggo's D.      

 

We have a lot of folks on here who worry about "not making a profit" with the first round pick.    But the objective isn't to be 9-7...........you might save your job for a year or two doing that as a HC but you will most certainly go broke if you don't do A LOT better.    The objective is to be great.    I've long believed that the Bills will only break thru by force of talent.......and I certainly don't expect McD to ever be able to match wits with BB............an overwhelming roster with a lot of matchup winners is the best chance to get there.    

 

Eh you may be right.

 

Some of us (myself included) probably need to stop opining that McBeane can’t afford to be taking risks - you’re probably more correct in saying that they can’t afford NOT to... 

 

Kearse is an interesting comp - freak was a great name for him - I remember him chasing down receivers 25 yards downfield, he played with his hair on fire when he came into the league.  If only Clowney had Kearse’s mentality...

 

But back to Metcalf, man I don’t see it. I see the explosiveness sure, but he is so stiff and has decent (at best) hands... if they’re focused on adding an explosive playmaker on offense why not take Hollywood Brown, he can take the top off of a defense and has shown legit production... Metcalf just doesn’t seem built for the modern game, to me.  But you’re right about the concept - a bunch of Jonah Williams or Christian Wilkins drafts will get you fired, ultimately, even if you get to join the Dick Jauron Genial Ex-Coach Alumni Group.

[Avisan]

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Sure ya did.  No pic then it didn’t happen.

They aren't particularly difficult questions, the majority of the difficulty comes from the time crunch and the wonkiness of some of the word association questions

 

For the most part it's like 7th grade level algebra with the equation setup packaged in a cute little paragraph with a red herring or two