Oh Gettleman

[IgotBILLStopay]

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

No one: 

 

Absolutely no one:

 

Not even Daniel Jones’ mom:

 

NY Giants: Daniel Jones is the best QB in this draft 

 

Actually he has been very quietly moving into Top 10 consideration.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/2019-qb-countdown-why-daniel-jones-starting-garner-more-attention

 

Quote

Charley Casserly believes Jones has "the best anticipation and vision in the draft." NFL.com's Lance Zierlein notes Jones' "rare level of quality mechanics coming from the college game." ESPN's John Keim is fan of the passer's fearlessness in the pocket.

 

And he did quite well in both the Duke bowl game as well as the Senior bowl. Against a very decent Temple defense, he had a nice CFB line of 30-41for 423 yards, 5TDs and 2 INTs. And Gruden was impressed at the Senior Bowl.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2817058-2019-nfl-draft-jon-gruden-praises-duke-qb-daniel-jones-meets-with-will-grier

 

From where I sit, I love it. All for wanting 4 QBs to go in the Top 8:)

Edited April 20, 2019 by IgotBILLStopay

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

 

Actually he has been very quietly moving into Top 10 consideration.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/2019-qb-countdown-why-daniel-jones-starting-garner-more-attention

 

 

And he did quite well in both the Duke bowl game as well as the Senior bowl. Against a very decent Temple defense, he had a nice CFB line of 30-41for 423 yards, 5TDs and 2 INTs. And Gruden was impressed at the Senior Bowl.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2817058-2019-nfl-draft-jon-gruden-praises-duke-qb-daniel-jones-meets-with-will-grier

 

From where I sit, I love it. All for wanting 4 QBs to go in the Top 8:)

Thats great but no way in hell he’s the best QB in the draft 

[Mat68]

This is super B.S season. It's all lies.  These are all leaks from teams maneuvering.  The only team that has showed some cards are Oakland.  They kicked our all their scouts til the draft.  They are trading up.  From where to who that's another thing.

[ricko1112]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Nothing the Giants do makes sense.  They are the new Al Davis.  

 

How Gettleman is an NFL GM is mind blowing.

Giants will be picking defense at #6, not a QB. They may take a QB later, but Gettleman has said that Eli is still the guy to lead the Giants to 4-12. They aren't high on any of the higher ranked QBs this year.

 

Jones has been linked to the Pats though. Garoppolo has been the only QB BB has ever drafted to replace Brady. JG was pretty good in NE in those couple games before Kiko pile drove his shoulder into the turf. Still, who knows what BB will do next week?

[formerlyofCtown]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

He is a 4th round talent. If he goes in the 1st round I am giving up. I have been writing up my QB notes today (post to come tomorrow) and seriously.... he is so limited. 

What was your take on Josh Allen and Josh Rosen.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

What was your take on Josh Allen and Josh Rosen.

 

Oh well. Maybe disregard everything I say then.

[thebandit27]

23 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

What was your take on Josh Allen and Josh Rosen.

 

Gunner and I have occasioned to differ on draft prospects, but you're talking to a guy that had Dak rated as a 2nd rounder when the rest of the world called him a late day 3 guy.

 

He may not always be right, but he's well worth listening to IMO

Edited April 20, 2019 by thebandit27

[Kirby Jackson]

25 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Gunner and I have occasioned to differ on draft prospects, but you're talking to a guy that had Dak rated as a 2nd rounder when the rest of the world called him a late day 3 guy.

 

He may not always be right, but he's well worth listening to IMO

I think that Gunner likes Deshaun Watson too

[formerlyofCtown]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh well. Maybe disregard everything I say then.

No.  Just making a point.  You actually do pretty well compared to most.  Im not high on any of these QBs.  I think Lock has potential.  I havent really put as much time into any of as I did last year.  Gettleman is a pretty good talent evaluator though.

18 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Nothing the Giants do makes sense.  They are the new Al Davis.  

 

How Gettleman is an NFL GM is mind blowing.

He is actually pretty good at evaluating college talent but has always undervalued NFL talent.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said:

No.  Just making a point.  You actually do pretty well compared to most.  Im not high on any of these QBs.  I think Lock has potential.  I havent really put as much time into any of as I did last year.  Gettleman is a pretty good talent evaluator though.

He is actually pretty good at evaluating college talent but has always undervalued NFL talent.

 

Gettleman has never drafted a QB. So we have no idea how good he is at evaluating the most difficult position in sports.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Gunner and I have occasioned to differ on draft prospects, but you're talking to a guy that had Dak rated as a 2nd rounder when the rest of the world called him a late day 3 guy.

 

He may not always be right, but he's well worth listening to IMO

 

Yeah I bust on Gunner a lot about Shaq but in general Gunner does a pro level job of evaluating prospects, IMO.

 

Nobody is anywhere close to perfect..........it's seeing the elite capability in a guy like DeShaun Watson that really pops out...........I know you were also that high on Mahomes even well before his last season at TT.   Great calls.

 

In years where I put extensive research in I've pounded the table to trade the farm to move up for Champ Bailey................and Kellen Winslow Jr.?..............I had Aaron Donald as the top defensive player in 2014..........and had Calvin Pryor as the second best.

 

The key to being "more" right is not offering evaluations on everyone...........that's how you get cherry picked for your mis-evaluations.

[Bangarang]

21 hours ago, JoeF said:

 Zion Williamson is the only Dukie who should be #1 on anybody's draft board -- NFL or NBA...

 

Neither will be any good

[formerlyofCtown]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Gettleman has never drafted a QB. So we have no idea how good he is at evaluating the most difficult position in sports.

Thats a fair statement.  But overall I think his draft history is decent.

[dlonce]

Everyone has an opinion. I don’t see Jones as a first round pick,nor a second.

Hes more into the third round category, BUT, QBs get over drafted all the time.

 

Gettlemans is not drafting Jones #6.

He’s likely drafting DL or OL. Gettlemans a dinosaur and that’s what dinosaurs do.

I too am a dinosaur, I believe in drafting OL and DL at the top of a draft, unless you can draft a potential franchise QB.

 

Next years crop of QBs are purported to be much better than this years, and I believe the Giants will be

in play for one of them next year. He’s taking the Bills route,let’s see if it pans out.

Edited April 20, 2019 by dlonce

[SWATeam]

22 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

He is a 4th round talent. If he goes in the 1st round I am giving up. I have been writing up my QB notes today (post to come tomorrow) and seriously.... he is so limited. 

Out of curiosity, where did you have Josh Allen rated?

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Out of curiosity, where did you have Josh Allen rated?

 

I had a 3rd on Josh. He was too boom or bust for my tastes and I did worry about the inaccuracy. I have said since I totally missed on his legs and if I had seen his ability as a runner that would have lifted him into the 2nd because it allows a QB to move the chains on the ground and avoid having to force throws into tight windows early while they continue to develop as passers. I had a 2nd on Lamar Jackson for that reason. I always said Allen had the highest ceiling just a very slim chance of meeting it. I feel a lot better about him a year on. 

 

Someone asked for the link to my 2018 evals and I will dig them out at some point. 

[Kirby Jackson]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I had a 3rd on Josh. He was too boom or bust for my tastes and I did worry about the inaccuracy. I have said since I totally missed on his legs and if I had seen his ability as a runner that would have lifted him into the 2nd because it allows a QB to move the chains on the ground and avoid having to force throws into tight windows early while they continue to develop as passers. I had a 2nd on Lamar Jackson for that reason. I always said Allen had the highest ceiling just a very slim chance of meeting it. I feel a lot better about him a year on. 

 

Someone asked for the link to my 2018 evals and I will dig them out at some point. 

I think that a lot of us missed on his legs. I thought that he was mobile. It turns out he is an elite runner from the position and you are spot on as to the benefit. 3rd and 6 doesn’t need to be a throw into a keyhole. He can get out of the pocket, make a move and move the chains.

 

Your analysis this time of year is invaluable around here and consistently good. Thank you for the effort and opinions. It makes us all more informed come 5 days from now!!

Edited April 20, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...certainly is pretty sure of himself, I'd day.....

 

Dave Gettleman: I like my resume so far

Posted by Josh Alper on April 21, 2019, 9:46 AM EDT

 

Giants General Manager Dave Gettleman made the decisions to trade wide receiver Odell Beckham and not hold onto safety Landon Collins this offseason.

 

He’s heard the criticism of those moves and he’s heard doubts about his overall plan to build the team since he was hired in late 2017. It’s fair to say that Gettleman doesn’t think much of voices on the “outside looking in.”

 

Gettleman said he’s never seen a team win the Super Bowl with “a culture problem” and said that the Giants no longer have one as they head into the 2019 season. He said he’s been “intentional” with every move he’s made and pointed to his history as reason to believe he knows what he’s doing.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/21/dave-gettleman-i-like-my-resume-so-far/

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[iinii]

On 4/19/2019 at 2:52 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Nothing the Giants do makes sense.  They are the new Al Davis.  

 

How Gettleman is an NFL GM is mind blowing.

Read today’s MMQB. Gettleman is far from the worst GM in the league and probably a mentor for our current regime in some ways 

[WideNine]

On 4/19/2019 at 2:52 PM, glazeduck said:

Big body, big arm. To some, that's all you need to see (not saying that's a good point, btw...)

 

That and NE does a great job in pass pro, been protecting a fairly immobile Brady for a while and has a different rulebook applied in regards to holding. Why I think Rosen would be a good fit there too.

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

On 4/20/2019 at 2:30 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

I had a 3rd on Josh. He was too boom or bust for my tastes and I did worry about the inaccuracy. I have said since I totally missed on his legs and if I had seen his ability as a runner that would have lifted him into the 2nd because it allows a QB to move the chains on the ground and avoid having to force throws into tight windows early while they continue to develop as passers. I had a 2nd on Lamar Jackson for that reason. I always said Allen had the highest ceiling just a very slim chance of meeting it. I feel a lot better about him a year on. 

 

Someone asked for the link to my 2018 evals and I will dig them out at some point. 

Gunner, in as much as I really respect your knowledge and judgement, where would you put JA in last year's draft knowing what you know now?  

[GunnerBill]

Just now, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

Gunner, in as much as I really respect your knowledge and judgement, where would you put JA in last year's draft knowing what you know now?  

 

So if we pretend that his 2018 Bills tape was actually his 2017 Wyoming tape then probably high second, maybe 1st / 2nd borderline. I'd still have had him behind Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield because all their college tape was very good. 

 

If what you are asking is where would I rank him out of that class based on what they did in the NFL as rookies then I have him basically joint second with Darnold. I thought Darnold's rookie tape as a passer was a little better but Josh's big play ability stood out. 

[GunnerBill]

On 4/20/2019 at 5:46 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah I bust on Gunner a lot about Shaq but in general Gunner does a pro level job of evaluating prospects, IMO.

 

Nobody is anywhere close to perfect..........it's seeing the elite capability in a guy like DeShaun Watson that really pops out...........I know you were also that high on Mahomes even well before his last season at TT.   Great calls.

 

In years where I put extensive research in I've pounded the table to trade the farm to move up for Champ Bailey................and Kellen Winslow Jr.?..............I had Aaron Donald as the top defensive player in 2014..........and had Calvin Pryor as the second best.

 

The key to being "more" right is not offering evaluations on everyone...........that's how you get cherry picked for your mis-evaluations.

 

Cheers Badol. And yep, we all get evaluations wrong. I have basically 3 rules:

 

1. Never hide from one you get wrong and never stop having opinions because of it;

2. Watch the guys you got wrong even more than the guys you get right that is how you learn; and

3. Most importantly, try to get more right than wrong ?

 

[billsfan_34]

On 4/19/2019 at 4:00 PM, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...nope...Arizona.......biggest curve ball of the draft cometh..............

Kinda nice to not be at the tippy top of the steam pile anymore

[lookylookyherecomescookie]

38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So if we pretend that his 2018 Bills tape was actually his 2017 Wyoming tape then probably high second, maybe 1st / 2nd borderline. I'd still have had him behind Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield because all their college tape was very good. 

 

If what you are asking is where would I rank him out of that class based on what they did in the NFL as rookies then I have him basically joint second with Darnold. I thought Darnold's rookie tape as a passer was a little better but Josh's big play ability stood out. 

I wonder if you could do that with all the Bill's choices you ranked last draft. Where  (what round) you ranked them, and where you would have ranked them last year if their 2018 Bills tape was their 2017 college tape. I know this might be some work for you, but I'd really like to know which of these guys, in your mind, over or under performed, based on your original rankings.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, iinii said:

Read today’s MMQB. Gettleman is far from the worst GM in the league and probably a mentor for our current regime in some ways 

 

Taking a RB in one of the richest QB classes of the last decade is inexcusable.  It may work out, but the point is when you have the 2nd pick in the draft with stud QB prospects, you don't take a RB.  

 

You also don't sign your WR to a gazillion dollars then immediately trade him.  

 

So far I am very unimpressed with Gettleman.  

[dave mcbride]

On 4/20/2019 at 12:46 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah I bust on Gunner a lot about Shaq but in general Gunner does a pro level job of evaluating prospects, IMO.

 

Nobody is anywhere close to perfect..........it's seeing the elite capability in a guy like DeShaun Watson that really pops out...........I know you were also that high on Mahomes even well before his last season at TT.   Great calls.

 

In years where I put extensive research in I've pounded the table to trade the farm to move up for Champ Bailey................and Kellen Winslow Jr.?..............I had Aaron Donald as the top defensive player in 2014..........and had Calvin Pryor as the second best.

 

The key to being "more" right is not offering evaluations on everyone...........that's how you get cherry picked for your mis-evaluations.

Kellen Winslow Jr may go down as the creepiest human to ever play in the NFL. And it's not as if he doesn't face stiff competition!!

Edited April 22, 2019 by dave mcbride

[Mango]

On 4/19/2019 at 5:55 PM, YoloinOhio said:

I feel like Jones has the potential to be this year’s Ryan Nassib - constantly mocked to the Bills at 8 due to QB need and ties to Marrone. Ended up 4th rd, where he should have gone, never started. 

 

 

Funny you mention that. ESPN is on the TV's in the office at work, and I had to do a double take, dude looked like Nassib throwing the ball when I looked up at the TV. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

I wonder if you could do that with all the Bill's choices you ranked last draft. Where  (what round) you ranked them, and where you would have ranked them last year if their 2018 Bills tape was their 2017 college tape. I know this might be some work for you, but I'd really like to know which of these guys, in your mind, over or under performed, based on your original rankings.

 

So I was really high on Tremaine (top 10 grade) He slightly underperformed for me in 2018 but as I have said many times before there was big jump year 1 to year 2 on his college tape so I would hope for the same in the pros.

 

I thought Harrison Phillips was a solid 3rd round dtackle who played the run well but offered little pass rush upside - which is exactly what he was as a rotational player his rookie year. 

 

Loved the Taron Johnson pick. Had him about where they picked him and he performed maybe a little better than I expected as a rookie but I did say the moment we picked him he would beat out Philip Gaines to start and he did, handily. 

 

On the others Wyatt Teller, Siran Neal, Ray-Ray McCloud and Austin Proehl I hadn't evaluated any of them so would be unfair to comment. 

[Misterbluesky]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So I was really high on Tremaine (top 10 grade) He slightly underperformed for me in 2018 but as I have said many times before there was big jump year 1 to year 2 on his college tape so I would hope for the same in the pros.

 

Ahhh....you crushed him after the Panthers pre season game last August.But what you said was true...he drifts.

On the first drive in that game,he tried to read Newton's eyes when he was zeroed in on the TE..Edmunds bit..hook line. Vontae Davis played 10 yards off the wideout..Milano got sucked into the middle ...the gain was a long one.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

Ahhh....you crushed him after the Panthers pre season game last August.But what you said was true...he drifts.

On the first drive in that game,he tried to read Newton's eyes when he was zeroed in on the TE..Edmunds bit..hook line. Vontae Davis played 10 yards off the wideout..Milano got sucked into the middle ...the gain was a long one.

 

Yea and that was a theme all season. I am still reasonably confident he will be a lot better year 2. 

[Misterbluesky]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea and that was a theme all season. I am still reasonably confident he will be a lot better year 2. 

Then he better get stronger up top too..interior linemen owned him in games ..review the Colts game.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Misterbluesky said:

Then he better get stronger up top too..interior linemen owned him in games ..review the Colts game.

 

Agreed. 

[YoloinOhio]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

 

 

Funny you mention that. ESPN is on the TV's in the office at work, and I had to do a double take, dude looked like Nassib throwing the ball when I looked up at the TV. 

I don’t get the hype on him in the 1st rd. At all.

[GunnerBill]

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 10:00 PM, Stank_Nasty said:

 

jones? I would say 90% of what I've seen is anywhere from borderline top 10 to early 2nd. 

 

Just as an example for the range on Jones on this.... Todd McShay has him as a 3rd rounder and doesn't have him in his top 5 Quarterbacks which are:

 

1. Murray

2. Haskins

3. Lock

4. Stidham

5. Finley

 

Doesn't mean McShay won't mock him higher... but he is not high on Jones as a prospect.

[iinii]

21 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Taking a RB in one of the richest QB classes of the last decade is inexcusable.  It may work out, but the point is when you have the 2nd pick in the draft with stud QB prospects, you don't take a RB.  

 

You also don't sign your WR to a gazillion dollars then immediately trade him.  

 

So far I am very unimpressed with Gettleman.  

Other than helping build Super Bowl teams in Buffalo, NY (Giants), and Carolina the thing that caught my interest is the probability that Gettleman showed our current regime how to rip the bandaid of in a rebuild. 

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, iinii said:

Other than helping build Super Bowl teams in Buffalo, NY (Giants), and Carolina the thing that caught my interest is the probability that Gettleman showed our current regime how to rip the bandaid of in a rebuild. 

 

What bandaid did he rip off?  He’s holding on to Eli like a bad ex girlfriend he can’t leave.  

Edited April 23, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[iinii]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

What bandaid did he rip off?  He’s holding on to Eli like a bad ex girlfriend he can’t leave.  

Apparently Carolina had cap issues like OBD. You can hate on him all you want, whatever he does or doesn’t do is pretty irrelevant to me. Enjoy 

[YoloinOhio]

You should always take a Duke QB (wtf) over Dwayne Freaking Haskins especially when you will now face him 2x/ yr. Good luck with.... all of that. 

[PetermansRedemption]

Gettleman’s gonna Gettleman. Was Beane making the calls in Carolina? This guy is a joke. Take a RB at 2 in a great QB draft? Then reach for one at 6 in the very next draft. GENIUS

Edited April 26, 2019 by Bills2ref