Will the Bills move up for Quinnen Williams?

[HeHateMe]

3 hours ago, BillsCuse said:

Trading up for a DL in a DL heavy draft would be completely stupid.  No way

 

But very Billsy.

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Oliver almost matched his SO numbers and played in 4 less games.  So I am not sure how that can be said that he played worse.

 

Bottom-line is there is not a major difference that would make me happy to see the Bills give up multiple picks to get in the top three to take Williams when they can sit at 9 and take Oliver how arguably can be the better prospect.

 

Now if we are talking about moving up for one of the premier edge guys now we are talking.

Oh, I agree.  I do not want to trade up for Q Williams.

8 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

What’s a eh?

Are you drunk?

[John from Riverside]

34 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Yeah who wants those elite talent guys anyway.. 

I am sure the same thing was said when we took Sammy Watkins

10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Oliver almost matched his SO numbers and played in 4 less games.  So I am not sure how that can be said that he played worse.

 

Bottom-line is there is not a major difference that would make me happy to see the Bills give up multiple picks to get in the top three to take Williams when they can sit at 9 and take Oliver how arguably can be the better prospect.

 

Now if we are talking about moving up for one of the premier edge guys now we are talking.

I think there is a very real possibility that we might lose out on both

 

I still dont want to trade up

[MAJBobby]

40 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Yeah who wants those elite talent guys anyway.. 

I this situation who is more elite Williams or Oliver.

 

Numbers and skill-sets tell you they are very similar, so you are getting an elite player likely at 9 with Oliver and not having to give up multiple assets to get maybe a marginally better elite prospect

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I am sure the same thing was said when we took Sammy Watkins

I think there is a very real possibility that we might lose out on both

 

I still dont want to trade up

 

I think we could.  But in the end Bills set themselves up this offseason to fill holes, use com of their capital to move up and take a player they want.  And with the NFL Quick passing offenses now, I would argue that the position to do that for now is an elite penetrating DT more than it is any other position even DE.

 

But to go from 9 to 6 would cost the third.  So one could argue the value to get to 6 to ensure Oliver if the board is falling that way.  (ALL Speculation anyway)

Edited April 2, 2019 by MAJBobby

[glazeduck]

I think this is a real possibility... Most fans speculating and formulating their opinions on these players and general trade values are basing them on industry mocks... What those mocks aren't taking into account, often, are teams moving up for QBs. That happening is about as routine as the sun rising. 

 

I'm not saying the Bills will trade up to 2 or 3 for Quinnen, but if you assume that the top of the draft features a few teams trading up for QBs and the possibility of Bosa and possibly Allen going ahead of Williams, depending on what teams are looking for... 

 

It's not inconceivable that he falls to 5 or 6, at which point I could see the Bills moving a pick or two to get Williams. I know a lot of people here like Oliver, but the fact is that he's not a guarantee... Tough to take a guy who may or may not pan out that high. Williams looks like as sure a pick as there is in this draft and fits a HUGE need... 

[MAJBobby]

36 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

Comparing stats for Oliver and Williams isn’t really fair. Oliver had to play nose tackle last year.

But even Comparing them it shows Oliver makes more plays behind the LOS than Williams does

[N.Y. Orangeman]

I'd rather move up from the 2nd to grab Simmonds.

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

I think this is a real possibility... Most fans speculating and formulating their opinions on these players and general trade values are basing them on industry mocks... What those mocks aren't taking into account, often, are teams moving up for QBs. That happening is about as routine as the sun rising. 

 

I'm not saying the Bills will trade up to 2 or 3 for Quinnen, but if you assume that the top of the draft features a few teams trading up for QBs and the possibility of Bosa and possibly Allen going ahead of Williams, depending on what teams are looking for... 

 

It's not inconceivable that he falls to 5 or 6, at which point I could see the Bills moving a pick or two to get Williams. I know a lot of people here like Oliver, but the fact is that he's not a guarantee... Tough to take a guy who may or may not pan out that high. Williams looks like as sure a pick as there is in this draft and fits a HUGE need... 

So how again is Williams a sure pick and Oliver might not pan out?

 

The fact is BOTH might not pan out.  So makes more sound sense using one pick on a player vice multiple picks

Edited April 2, 2019 by MAJBobby

[LABILLBACKER]

Trading up would be way too costly. Maybe Oliver ends up better than Q?  Or maybe they both become Torell Troup?  Ah Spring, the season of pollen and speculation. 

[wppete]

Love Quinten Williams butbwe should stay where we are and get either Ed Oliver or Montez Sweat. No need to give up assets, we are building right now. 

[cage]

3 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

Whaley did it in 2014 when WR was the position of strength in that draft.

 

How did that work out?

 

I don't think Beane will make the same mistake, but what do I know.

 

 

I hate the "how did that work out?" as if that's a universally applicable response.  It doesn't mean anything.  Bills made a mistake in that regard by not having done enough evaluation of OBJ.  Its a separate matter.  How did trading up for Patrick Mahomes work out for KC?  We also moved up for Josh Allen.  How's that working out so far?

Edited April 2, 2019 by cage

[John from Riverside]

9 minutes ago, wppete said:

Love Quinten Williams butbwe should stay where we are and get either Ed Oliver or Montez Sweat. No need to give up assets, we are building right now. 

Actually.....I think we are to the point now where this team better do something this next year or McD and Beane will be feeling the heat......

 

I like the way they did it....but now this team needs to perform.  

[glazeduck]

14 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

So how again is Williams a sure pick and Oliver might not pan out?

 

The fact is BOTH might not pan out.  So makes more sound sense using one pick on a player vice multiple picks

One dominated the SEC and is prototype size. 

 

The other was up and down in the... [literally having to check what league Houston is in] AAC and is undersized for the position...

 

Not sure what else there is to say about it but if you consider the two comparable then we're not going to see eye to eye on this one... 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I doubt we trade up at all. Maybe trade back in the bottom 1st but trading up for a DL seems unlikely imo. 

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

One dominated the SEC and is prototype size. 

 

The other was up and down in the... [literally having to check what league Houston is in] AAC and is undersized for the position...

 

Not sure what else there is to say about it but if you consider the two comparable then we're not going to see eye to eye on this one... 

So nothing there points to how ONE is a Sure thing and the OTHER isn't.

 

I mean Aaron Donald cannot possibly be the best DT in the league because he came from PITT and not the SEC (take those SEC rose glasses off, it really helps in looking at player traits)

Edited April 2, 2019 by MAJBobby

[glazeduck]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

So nothing there points to how ONE is a Sure thing and the OTHER isn't.

 

I mean Aaron Donald cannot possibly be the best DT in the league because he came from PITT and not the SEC (take those SEC rose glasses off, it really helps in looking at player traits)

Neither are a sure thing. I didn't say they were. But one has quite a few more flags than the other.

 

Bills have picks to spend to get the right guy. At the right price, we should all hope they're willing to do that.

[MAJBobby]

7 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

Neither are a sure thing. I didn't say they were. But one has quite a few more flags than the other.

 

Bills have picks to spend to get the right guy. At the right price, we should all hope they're willing to do that.

 

I see a light weight Oliver. That will struggle to keep weight on however probably closer to his weight at 280-290

 

Williams is also a Light weight guy that bulked up and will struggle to keep weight on. 

 

There are just as many flags with one as the other and why they are graded close IMO 

[tombstone56]

I am not sold on Williams or Oliver yet both have outrageous  qualities but are they dt .nt or de. Williams looked  like he still was not in shape but posted crazy numbers still , Oliver has similar numbers but looked in better shape   but what position, ? I want Josh Allen ,rush de ,olb, ,, to move up for him or Williams will be costly possibly  our first in  2019 and 2020,,, depending on how high ,,now if they slide to 5 that is roughly only a  additional second.

[ndirish1978]

36 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

But even Comparing them it shows Oliver makes more plays behind the LOS than Williams does

 

True. but it's not an apples to apples comparison considering the conferences they play in completely different conferences with a big disparity in the level of competition

 

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, tombstone56 said:

I am not sold on Williams or Oliver yet both have outrageous  qualities but are they dt .nt or de. Williams looked  like he still was not in shape but posted crazy numbers still , Oliver has similar numbers but looked in better shape   but what position, ? I want Josh Allen ,rush de ,olb, ,, to move up for him or Williams will be costly possibly  our first in  2019 and 2020,,, depending on how high ,,now if they slide to 5 that is roughly only a  additional second.

 

I project both to penetrating 3Tech.  Which is needed on this team probably more so than an edge. 

Just now, ndirish1978 said:

 

True. but it's not an apples to apples comparison considering the conferences they play in completely different conferences with a big disparity in the level of competition

 

 

True and why Stats are only part of it when I look at players. 

 

I have Both Williams and Oliver graded pretty closely. Both projecting as Impact 3 Tech DTs. Just don’t see a big separation between the two in traits or play that justify a trade up for one over the other. 

[ndirish1978]

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I project both to penetrating 3Tech.  Which is needed on this team probably more so than an edge. 

 

True and why Stats are only part of it when I look at players. 

 

I have Both Williams and Oliver graded pretty closely. Both projecting as Impact 3 Tech DTs. Just don’t see a big separation between the two in traits or play that justify a trade up for one over the other. 

 

Agreed, I wasn't arguing for one over the other, just pointing out that using stats to justify things isn't going to work in this case. 

[mannc]

11 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I project both to penetrating 3Tech.  Which is needed on this team probably more so than an edge. 

 

True and why Stats are only part of it when I look at players. 

 

I have Both Williams and Oliver graded pretty closely. Both projecting as Impact 3 Tech DTs. Just don’t see a big separation between the two in traits or play that justify a trade up for one over the other. 

Do you see a big drop off from these two to Tillery?

[MacGyver]

1 hour ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Yeah who wants those elite talent guys anyway.. 

 

Like Sammy Watkins?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

Whaley did it in 2014 when WR was the position of strength in that draft.

 

How did that work out?

 

I don't think Beane will make the same mistake, but what do I know.

 

 

.....seriously?......some moves up work and others don't....likewise some moves down work (including the extra pick) and others don't (including the extra pick).....what the hell does Whaley or Sammy have to do with ANYTHING in 2019?...Jesus.........still grinding THAT ax................

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

7 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

 

Like Sammy Watkins?

Like Julio Jones?

[BillsFan17]

4 hours ago, Rebel101 said:

I would love to see the Bills get Williams whether he drops to them or they move up. I really don’t think Ed Oliver is going to great. He is a great athlete but that only gets you great stats in college. Once he gets to the NFL I think he will be an average rotational player. Quinnen Williams is a beast bills need to find a way

So, stats is what we base players off of?

[MrEpsYtown]

I think if, somehow, Williams, Bosa, or Allen are there at 5, they might try to trade with up. I do think 2 makes some sense as well, but might be too costly.  I don't think the Raiders will trade down, as they already have 3 first rounders. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by MrEpsYtown

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Will Bills Williams??

 

Bills will Williams while wrestling with winning ways.

been awhile. is that alliteration. or Haiku

 : )

[billsbackto81]

2 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Yeah who wants those elite talent guys anyway.. 

Fine.

Swap 9 for 2 and

give them our 6th and both 7s. ?

[Bill from NYC]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Williams 24 games 26 TFL 10 Sacks. Or 1.5 plays per game  behind LOS 

 

Oliver 32 games 53 TFL 13.5 Sacks or 2.07 plays per game behind LOS 

 

so how is One a Beast and the Other a AVG Rotational Player???

I am not the one who made this claim but let us not forget the competition, shall we?

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I project both to penetrating 3Tech.  Which is needed on this team probably more so than an edge. 

 

True and why Stats are only part of it when I look at players. 

 

I have Both Williams and Oliver graded pretty closely. Both projecting as Impact 3 Tech DTs. Just don’t see a big separation between the two in traits or play that justify a trade up for one over the other. 

i think you have to consider intelligence here. and can you move them around per down and distance. are they each 3 down players potentially.
I am sure there are tiebreakers for scouts that do not show in statistics.
The word " impact" is the key here.
and what you daft in the first 15 picks or better. 

ty for insight MAJ

thanks all

[YoloinOhio]

5 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

I am just talking about the overall team success with Watkins around., when we knew the team had bigger needs in 2014 than WR.

 

Everyone knew it was a reach at the time when Whaley did.

 

Everyone thought at the time the team was trading up for hometown boy Mack.

I actually thought WR was a huge need. LB was not. I don’t remember anyone thinking the trade up was for Mack. Maybe in hindsight some wish it was. Maybe some wished it was at the time, too. But trading a 1st and 4th to move up 5 spots for a LB from UB when they didn’t even need one at the time but did need a WR1 would have been laughed at by many, at the time. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[Bill from NYC]

52 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

.....seriously?......some moves up work and others don't....likewise some moves down work (including the extra pick) and others don't (including the extra pick).....what the hell does Whaley or Sammy have to do with ANYTHING in 2019?...Jesus.........still grinding THAT ax................

To be fair, Bills Fans have numerous axes to grind if you will. 

 

We were injured wrt the Watkins trade. We gave away the store for a receiver and didn't have a quarterback. So much for trading up.

 

We also walked right past Mahomes, traded down,  and wound up with a first round corner. That was pretty stupid, no?

 

My point is that Bills Fans (the greatest fans in the NFL by far imo) are still recovering from untold stupid mistakes. Not every fan is capable of being an ever present cheerleader in spite of all of the stupid mistakes. We all cope in different ways.

[starrymessenger]

JMO but there are 2 sure fire immediate impact players at the top of the draft: Bosa and Williams. If you are within striking distance of either you jump. Allen is a great prospect but won't find his stride at the next level right away, probably not for a couple of years. I think Bosa is the second player off the board and I'd rather have the DT anyway based on need/fit. Williams projects as all pro 3 tech and would turbo charge this D into top 5.

[LeGOATski]

35 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

been awhile. is that alliteration. or Haiku

 : )

abundant alliteration application

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

To be fair, Bills Fans have numerous axes to grind if you will. 

 

We were injured wrt the Watkins trade. We gave away the store for a receiver and didn't have a quarterback. So much for trading up.

 

We also walked right past Mahomes, traded down,  and wound up with a first round corner. That was pretty stupid, no?

 

My point is that Bills Fans (the greatest fans in the NFL by far imo) are still recovering from untold stupid mistakes. Not every fan is capable of being an ever present cheerleader in spite of all of the stupid mistakes. We all cope in different ways.

.not a fair assessment or indictment of OBD as far as Mahomes IMO...PLENTY of urinalists and posting pundits who advocated steering clear of the leper like Air Raid product...to paraphrase quote, "no way...no Air Raid QB EVER makes it in the NFL" for starters.....so in year 2, he has a helluva season and proves naysayers wrong so far....how about the premature accolades of RG II 5/8 or Kaep?....RG was "ME" in the winner pressers and "THEM" in the losses...real team guy......didn't Jaws proclaim Kaep as potentially in the "ten best of all time"?....and??...Mahomes ax is non sequitor IMO........

[3rdand12]

5 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

abundant alliteration application

rusky dusky neon dust

well done Le GOAT

25 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

To be fair, Bills Fans have numerous axes to grind if you will. 

 

We were injured wrt the Watkins trade. We gave away the store for a receiver and didn't have a quarterback. So much for trading up.

 

We also walked right past Mahomes, traded down,  and wound up with a first round corner. That was pretty stupid, no?

 

My point is that Bills Fans (the greatest fans in the NFL by far imo) are still recovering from untold stupid mistakes. Not every fan is capable of being an ever present cheerleader in spite of all of the stupid mistakes. We all cope in different ways.

Whaley finding wrs For Tyrod was kinda hilarious.
Not picking Mahomes is an easy explain Beane was going to pick the future state QB

not Whaley nor McD. and they surely saw a QB in the next draft

 and White is one of my favorite players.

 A Franchise player at that.

 maybe i am that idiot cheerleader practicing in the rain all alone. But i don't mind. 

 Go Bills.

[Bill from NYC]

6 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

 

 maybe i am that idiot cheerleader practicing in the rain all alone. But i don't mind. 

 Go Bills.

Not at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

As I said, we all cope in different ways.

 

Go Bills indeed. Lets hope for a sane, productive draft!

 

[Bill from NYC]

20 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

.not a fair assessment or indictment of OBD as far as Mahomes IMO...PLENTY of urinalists and posting pundits who advocated steering clear of the leper like Air Raid product...to paraphrase quote, "no way...no Air Raid QB EVER makes it in the NFL" for starters.....so in year 2, he has a helluva season and proves naysayers wrong so far....how about the premature accolades of RG II 5/8 or Kaep?....RG was "ME" in the winner pressers and "THEM" in the losses...real team guy......didn't Jaws proclaim Kaep as potentially in the "ten best of all time"?....and??...Mahomes ax is non sequitor IMO........

I don't really care what journalists say. The Bills pay millions of dollars to professional football people to build a team that we fans can watch win football games. I am tired of excusing decades of idiocy.

 

That said, I was behind the Josh Allen selection from day 1. Lets hope that we will draft some protection and weapons for him so he can develop, excel, and win football games.

[Da webster guy]

7 hours ago, MacGyver said:

No moving up please.

 

Obviously anything can happen, Beaner moved up twice last year in the first, but I agree it really seems silly to do unless you're freaked on a player.

 

A move up would cost us at least a 2nd, or a next year's first.  Either way, we're in a good spot at 9.  There will be sick talent there.