Calling it now: Zay Jones will not be on the week 1 roster.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Alright, I am finally sold that Zay will not be on roster.  My guess is they trade him, if they can get anything.  We are keeping 6 WR IMO

Brown

Beasley

Foster(an offseason where he worked with Josh)

Roberts

Duke(potential #1 way more upside than Zay)

Sills or Easley- both these kids can play!  I think at least one of them will show more than Zay.  I really liks Sills

 

Duke and Sills would be red zone targets.  Brown and Foster speed.  Easley and Beasley slot.  Roberts return.  What's Zay's role?  Sills seems much more sure handed.  Sorry Zay.   Sills is going to eat you alive

 

 

In college, Zay had more catches than anyone.  His routes looked crisp and his hands looked very good.  He ran a 4.45 40.  Thats not to say that he’s great......all that says is Sills and Duke haven’t done anything in the NFL yet.  Play in college and the CFL don’t mean jack.  I have hopes that both of these guys will be good,  it as of now, they’re UDFA’s with zero nfl exp.  temper expectations.....unless you’re just hear so you can say “I told you so” later on.  If Zay makes the team, no one will remember you saying anything, because no one cares.

Edited May 1, 2019 by NewEra

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

In college, Zay had more catches than anyone.  His routes looked crisp and his hands looked very good.  He ran a 4.45 40.  Thats not to say that he’s great......all that says is Sills and Duke haven’t done anything in the NFL yet.  Play in college and the CFL don’t mean jack.  I have hopes that both of these guys will be good,  it as of now, they’re UDFA’s with zero nfl exp.  temper expectations.....unless you’re just hear so you can say “I told you so” later on.  If Zay makes the team, no one will remember you saying anything, because no one cares.

 

Huh?  You just quoted Zays college performance in support of Zay,  then to discredit Duke and Sills you say college and CFL production doesn’t mean jack in the next sentence?  

 

So....

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Huh?  You just quoted Zays college performance in support of Zay,  then to discredit Duke and Sills you say college and CFL production doesn’t mean jack in the next sentence?  

 

So....

No.  I quoted Zays college performance to show that college performance means jack. Sills played well in college.  Doesn’t mean he’s any good.  Duke player well in the CFL.  Doesn’t mean he’s any good.  

 

Edit;  i’m not in support of Zay (but I support all Bills) I’m saying that those that are so sure of Sills and Duke should temper expectations.  I hope they turn out to be the real deal.  I LOVE I’ve seen in duke cfl highlight.  But I realize that he may just be another guy like everyone favorite, Da”rick 

Edited May 1, 2019 by NewEra

[Alphadawg7]

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

No.  I quoted Zays college performance to show that college performance means jack. Sills played well in college.  Doesn’t mean he’s any good.  Duke player well in the CFL.  Doesn’t mean he’s any good.  

 

Edit;  i’m not in support of Zay (but I support all Bills) I’m saying that those that are so sure of Sills and Duke should temper expectations.  I hope they turn out to be the real deal.  I LOVE I’ve seen in duke cfl highlight.  But I realize that he may just be another guy like everyone favorite, Da”rick 

 

Well I think you are mistaking the basis of this thread, which I started.  It was never to just rail against Zay, it was a discussion I started based on what I expected Beane to do this offseason and how I felt Zay would do facing stiffer competition.  

 

In your other post you asked if we are here to just say “I told you so” when it happens.  Well I’ve been here long enough for people to know that I don’t make threads like this for the purpose of “I told you so”, heck I don’t even make threads like this.

 

And I predicted Beane would add at least 3 new WRs in the offseason between FA and draft, and he added 5 relevant ones.  Brown, Cole, Duke, and Roberts in FA, plus Sills as an UDFA.  And he may be UDFA, but he should not be over looked, even Beane said they had a draft-able grade but later in rounds they went more with bigger needs.  

 

And Roberts is relevant, he won’t compete for a top 3 WR spot, but he will be a big threat for one of the WR spots as our returner.  

 

So the things I said would happen, did happen so far.  And now Zay will be in competition with Duke, Sills, and McKenzie for likely 2 spots.  And yes he has NFL experience over Duke and Sills, but that resume is actually pretty poor.  I believe you cited 7 TDs, but also over look majority came in 2 games vs the woeful Dolphins.  Totals don’t show week to week effectiveness and he was terrible in that category.  

 

So for me, it’s not about hating on Zay, heck I liked the pick when it happened (even though I personally wanted JuJu more).  It’s about believing or not if he will rise to the occasion against other young and hungry talent.  

 

I remain skeptical.  But hey if he does rise to the occasion, then that’s awesome, I would love to be wrong and see him stick and excel.  I’m not afraid of being wrong here, and I’m not interested in being “right”, just interested in Josh having the best tools around him to succeed, whoever that is.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well I think you are mistaking the basis of this thread, which I started.  It was never to just rail against Zay, it was a discussion I started based on what I expected Beane to do this offseason and how I felt Zay would do facing stiffer competition.  

 

In your other post you asked if we are here to just say “I told you so” when it happens.  Well I’ve been here long enough for people to know that I don’t make threads like this for the purpose of “I told you so”, heck I don’t even make threads like this.

 

And I predicted Beane would add at least 3 new WRs in the offseason between FA and draft, and he added 5 relevant ones.  Brown, Cole, Duke, and Roberts in FA, plus Sills as an UDFA.  And he may be UDFA, but he should not be over looked, even Beane said they had a draft-able grade but later in rounds they went more with bigger needs.  

 

And Roberts is relevant, he won’t compete for a top 3 WR spot, but he will be a big threat for one of the WR spots as our returner.  

 

So the things I said would happen, did happen so far.  And now Zay will be in competition with Duke, Sills, and McKenzie for likely 2 spots.  And yes he has NFL experience over Duke and Sills, but that resume is actually pretty poor.  I believe you cited 7 TDs, but also over look majority came in 2 games vs the woeful Dolphins.  Totals don’t show week to week effectiveness and he was terrible in that category.  

 

So for me, it’s not about hating on Zay, heck I liked the pick when it happened (even though I personally wanted JuJu more).  It’s about believing or not if he will rise to the occasion against other young and hungry talent.  

 

I remain skeptical.  But hey if he does rise to the occasion, then that’s awesome, I would love to be wrong and see him stick and excel.  I’m not afraid of being wrong here, and I’m not interested in being “right”, just interested in Josh having the best tools around him to succeed, whoever that is.

This has nothing to do with your thread. I was quoting someone else

Edited May 2, 2019 by NewEra

[Pete]

46 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Huh?  You just quoted Zays college performance in support of Zay,  then to discredit Duke and Sills you say college and CFL production doesn’t mean jack in the next sentence?  

 

So....

I was about to post the same thing brother!

[Pete]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

The Duke hype reminds me of DaRick Rogers. Not sure how many of you remember. There have been others as well. The obsession with the random guys out there that are better than everyone else on our roster...

Huge difference.  Sure both were 5 star recruits out of HS, and neither were drafted.  DaRick hasn't done much since college.  Whereas Duke was a CFL star. Beane himself has said that Duke makes WR not as much a need.  DaRick's failures have no bearing on Duke's success

[KD in CA]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Huge difference.  Sure both were 5 star recruits out of HS, and neither were drafted.  DaRick hasn't done much since college.  Whereas Duke was a CFL star. Beane himself has said that Duke makes WR not as much a need.  DaRick's failures have no bearing on Duke's success

 

He lead the SEC in receiving!!!

[billsfan89]

Brown, Beasley and the returner Roberts will be on the roster if healthy. That leaves 3 roster spots at the WR position open. In order for Zay's roster spot to be in danger he has to have 3 WR's leapfrog him. Foster is one that you could easily see that happening with. So that means 2 WR's have to be better than Zay for him to be outside the top 6. I could see one WR out of the rest beating out Zay but I don't see two happening. 

 

Esp considering that Zay was a McD pick who improved a lot last year and is still just 23 years old. It also doesn't help your case that the competition behind Zay is rather weak. I don't see two of those players coming on strong enough in camp/pre-season. 

[Rc2catch]

All this cut Zay talk is kind of crazy. 

Why are we hyping 3 guys who have never had an nfl snap? Easley, Duke and Sills are already getting crazy hype on here and they were passed over by every team in the league. I get all 3 have some potential to blossom but man this is setting up to be the ultimate freak out on this board when/if they’re cut and tried to stash them on the practice squad. One of them might make it but I can see the freak out on here already if Zay sticks and they cut some of these new guys 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Rc2catch said:

All this cut Zay talk is kind of crazy. 

Why are we hyping 3 guys who have never had an nfl snap? Easley, Duke and Sills are already getting crazy hype on here and they were passed over by every team in the league. I get all 3 have some potential to blossom but man this is setting up to be the ultimate freak out on this board when/if they’re cut and tried to stash them on the practice squad. One of them might make it but I can see the freak out on here already if Zay sticks and they cut some of these new guys 

 

This will now be like the 100th time I have said this.  

 

No one is claiming he will be cut.  I said in my original post I believed would trade Zay if he wasn’t able to to secure one of the top 3 spots on the Seth chart.  Never did I say he would be cut or predicted him being cut.  They would obviously keep him over cutting him if he proved to be one of the 6 best WRs on the team.

[Orlando Tim]

3 hours ago, ngbills said:

The Duke hype reminds me of DaRick Rogers. Not sure how many of you remember. There have been others as well. The obsession with the random guys out there that are better than everyone else on our roster...

I remember Darick and his crazy potential- i was one of those excited and shocked when he got cut. I will wait to see what happens here but i doubt Zay is cut or traded.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

On 4/25/2019 at 3:16 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

ITS DRAFT NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So...with the draft here, who is going to be the next WR addition to the Bills roster that bumps Zay off into a trade?  

My mom?

Someone else?

Or...

Falcons Trade down where we swap picks and pick up a WR?

Or...

A hotel window on the top floor?

So many options 

Or None at all.  

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

well since I haven't read every page let me dump this Dec article 

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/how-zay-jones-rebuilt-confidence-let-his-game-emerge

 

One of Jones’ teammates, who witnessed the receiver’s rookie year first-hand, then spent the first half of 2018 in Dallas, before re-joining the Bills last month, sees a Zay Jones who carries himself with a purpose.

 

“What jumped out at me the most when I got back was the look in his eye, the pep in his step, the confidence,” said fellow receiver Deonte Thompson. “From the time I walked back in the building a few weeks ago his confidence has made him a totally different dude. His confidence is at another level right now.”

 

The first Bills receiver with 50 receptions or more since 2016 and the team leader in catches, receiving yards and receiving touchdowns, Jones established himself as a steady and reliable option in Buffalo’s passing game despite a lot of change at the quarterback position.

 

“He gets better every day. He works his tail off,” said Josh Allen. “He comes into practice, he never takes a rep off, and it’s showing in games because he’s finding ways to get it done, creating more separation, it seems like, every game. When he’s got that type of attitude and work ethic, the chemistry just kind of becomes natural the more you throw to him."

 

 

 

since 2016........  Now, just who was the QB in 16 and 17??????    I jusT can'T remember his name 

Edited May 2, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

well since I haven't read every page let me dump this Dec article 

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/how-zay-jones-rebuilt-confidence-let-his-game-emerge

 

One of Jones’ teammates, who witnessed the receiver’s rookie year first-hand, then spent the first half of 2018 in Dallas, before re-joining the Bills last month, sees a Zay Jones who carries himself with a purpose.

 

“What jumped out at me the most when I got back was the look in his eye, the pep in his step, the confidence,” said fellow receiver Deonte Thompson. “From the time I walked back in the building a few weeks ago his confidence has made him a totally different dude. His confidence is at another level right now.”

 

The first Bills receiver with 50 receptions or more since 2016 and the team leader in catches, receiving yards and receiving touchdowns, Jones established himself as a steady and reliable option in Buffalo’s passing game despite a lot of change at the quarterback position.

 

“He gets better every day. He works his tail off,” said Josh Allen. “He comes into practice, he never takes a rep off, and it’s showing in games because he’s finding ways to get it done, creating more separation, it seems like, every game. When he’s got that type of attitude and work ethic, the chemistry just kind of becomes natural the more you throw to him."

 

 

 

since 2016........  Now, just who was the QB in 16 and 17??????    I jusT can'T remember his name 

Zay will lead the team in receiving. People here are way too hard on him.

[Bing Bong]

41 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Zay will lead the team in receiving. People here are way too hard on him.

I want to give him a 3rd year. I could have seen it going down had we targeted WRs in the draft after picking up a lot of FAs but I'm glad we went trenches and potential playmakers at the RB and TE position. 

 

Zay's clearly had enough production to merit keeping him on the roster and see improvement. More consistency on the flashes he's shown us so far of what he's capable of, and less mental errors. That all inevitably gets better as a WR matures. Years 3 or 4 we'll truly have a proper evaluation of his abilities in the NFL.

 

Granted we're weak at the position on paper, it's contingent on Foster maintaining how he finished last year and Zay improving. We absolutely needed depth in veterans John Brown and Cole Beasley which is what I wanted to address first and foremost. Don't want to trot out WRs that don't belong on the field like these last 3 years: put a floor on our worst WR, so that Josh Allen can spread the ball around better. JA doesn't have an established weapon which he needs desperately. But we've otherwise adequately addressed many offensive problems we had last year.

 

Maybe the offense still won't be good enough next year, but it won't be as big a liability to go 6-10. Next year I want to see an above average offense and a winning formula based on the defense or offense. It depends on how much Zay improves, which he will to some degree undoubtedly, Foster, and JA. And having proper knowledge of Zay's place in the NFL will give us a good opportunity next offseason to truly beef up the WR corps if needed.

 

I wanted to see him with the Bills in his 3rd year. It would have been disappointing getting rid of him for anything other than a top tier WR like DHop or Julio. I'd rather see Zay's jump in performance next year, than bet on a 2nd round or later rookie's jump into the NFL. Zay's done enough to earn that.

Edited May 2, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[formerlyofCtown]

12 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

All this cut Zay talk is kind of crazy. 

Why are we hyping 3 guys who have never had an nfl snap? Easley, Duke and Sills are already getting crazy hype on here and they were passed over by every team in the league. I get all 3 have some potential to blossom but man this is setting up to be the ultimate freak out on this board when/if they’re cut and tried to stash them on the practice squad. One of them might make it but I can see the freak out on here already if Zay sticks and they cut some of these new guys 

Duke has had NFL Snaps and had other suitors.  That being said I really like Zay Jones.

[brianb386]

Zay isn't a good option as a #1 guy, but he is a great #3 or #4 at worst. He may still be a solid #2. He had a bad start but has shown growth. I don't see them parting ways this year. If he has a bad year, then maybe next offseason, but I think the chances of him being off the roster week 1 are slim.

Edited May 2, 2019 by brianb386

[Punching Bag]

15 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

What if we had cut Moulds after year two.  Moulds 2nd year, 29 catches, 294 yards, 0 TD's. 

 

The difference was that rookies and 2 year players were not expected to perform like they are now.

 

A player of Moulds level coming out in draft now would be a godsend for some OC's.

[K-9]

15 hours ago, ngbills said:

The Duke hype reminds me of DaRick Rogers. Not sure how many of you remember. There have been others as well. The obsession with the random guys out there that are better than everyone else on our roster...

What about the Duke reminds you of Rogers? 

[K-9]

13 hours ago, Pete said:

Huge difference.  Sure both were 5 star recruits out of HS, and neither were drafted.  DaRick hasn't done much since college.  Whereas Duke was a CFL star. Beane himself has said that Duke makes WR not as much a need.  DaRick's failures have no bearing on Duke's success

DaRick Rogers was one of the most “football stupidest” players I’ve ever seen. If you needed a receiver to run coverages into other routes, he was your man. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Zay will lead the team in receiving. People here are way too hard on him.

 

54 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

I want to give him a 3rd year. I could have seen it going down had we targeted WRs in the draft after picking up a lot of FAs but I'm glad we went trenches and potential playmakers at the RB and TE position. 

 

Zay's clearly had enough production to merit keeping him on the roster and see improvement. More consistency on the flashes he's shown us so far of what he's capable of, and less mental errors. That all inevitably gets better as a WR matures. Years 3 or 4 we'll truly have a proper evaluation of his abilities in the NFL.

 

Granted we're weak at the position on paper, it's contingent on Foster maintaining how he finished last year and Zay improving. We absolutely needed depth in veterans John Brown and Cole Beasley which is what I wanted to address first and foremost. Don't want to trot out WRs that don't belong on the field like these last 3 years: put a floor on our worst WR, so that Josh Allen can spread the ball around better. JA doesn't have an established weapon which he needs desperately. But we've otherwise adequately addressed many offensive problems we had last year.

 

Maybe the offense still won't be good enough next year, but it won't be as big a liability to go 6-10. Next year I want to see an above average offense and a winning formula based on the defense or offense. It depends on how much Zay improves, which he will to some degree undoubtedly, Foster, and JA. And having proper knowledge of Zay's place in the NFL will give us a good opportunity next offseason to truly beef up the WR corps if needed.

 

I wanted to see him with the Bills in his 3rd year. It would have been disappointing getting rid of him for anything other than a top tier WR like DHop or Julio. I'd rather see Zay's jump in performance next year, than bet on a 2nd round or later rookie's jump into the NFL. Zay's done enough to earn that.

 

12 minutes ago, brianb386 said:

Zay isn't a good option as a #1 guy, but he is a great #3 or #4 at worst. He may still be a solid #2. He had a bad start but has shown growth. I don't see them parting ways this year. If he has a bad year, then maybe next offseason, but I think the chances of him being off the roster week 1 are slim.

 

True and agree to the three of you.

 

In a tragic offensive year (which Zay, yes, was a part of, but I think a small part due to some drops) I honestly can't wrap my head around the desire of many to run this guy out on a rail after he caught 61 passes for 7 TDs to lead the team, in his second year, after being drafted to be...wait for it...a number 2 receiver and is costing this team about a million dollars a year.  Edit:  and according Carp the Bills love him and he saw the field for 95% of the offensive snaps last year.

 

Whose dog did this man kick?!

 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts

[MrEpsYtown]

There is nothing at all special about Zay. When he's open, he sometimes catches the ball. He has no deep speed, he's average in size, has too many drops, he's an okay route runner, he's a bad blocker, he never makes contested catches, and has no RAC ability whatsoever. On top of that, he doesn't play special teams. He was a bad draft pick who has very little upside. He is literally, just a guy. I hope they move on. They probably won't, and will probably regret it. Trade him now while he might have some left over prospect shine. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

9 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

There is nothing at all special about Zay. When he's open, he sometimes catches the ball. He has no deep speed, he's average in size, has too many drops, he's an okay route runner, he's a bad blocker, he never makes contested catches, and has no RAC ability whatsoever. On top of that, he doesn't play special teams. He was a bad draft pick who has very little upside. He is literally, just a guy. I hope they move on. They probably won't, and will probably regret it. Trade him now while he might have some left over prospect shine. 

 

He had the most catches of any Bills WR since 2016, but sure since the Bills are so loaded with WR talent they should move on.  Also, not for nothing, he had 3 drops last year.  Its pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about, and being driven by his Rookie year narrative (which went completely out the window in year 2).  

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

42 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

The difference was that rookies and 2 year players were not expected to perform like they are now.

 

A player of Moulds level coming out in draft now would be a godsend for some OC's.

The same is a receiver can't perform without a QB who can get him the ball.  Zay had the dropsies year one but largely corrected that in year two.  Zay had Tyrod, Peterman and a raw rookie in Allen throwing to him for his 1st year and a half.  When Allen came back from his injury, he played much better and there was a direct correlation correlation in production from the receiver position.

 

People thought Randy Moss was done in Oakland then was traded to New England and had one of the greatest years of all time.  It's no coincidence that when Moulds went from the Todd Collins, Van Pelt, Hobert trio to Flutie, his production sky rocketed.

 

This thread is full of people not considering how QB play affects the receiver, even though it is the most important factor.

[MrEpsYtown]

18 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

He had the most catches of any Bills WR since 2016, but sure since the Bills are so loaded with WR talent they should move on.  Also, not for nothing, he had 3 drops last year.  Its pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about, and being driven by his Rookie year narrative (which went completely out the window in year 2).  

 

Remember who the quarterback was those two years. Are you basically saying our receivers were so terrible for two years that this terrible receiver had better stats than them? Is that what makes him special? I'm sorry but that is a totally meaningless point. This is crap, but that was more crappy, so this is better crap. It is still crap. Zay is nothing special. You could put almost anyone in there and get the same production imo. You can tell me whatever you think about what I know. He sucks. His rookie year sucked, his sophomore year was full of stats in garbage time. He's just not a big deal. He doesn't make plays. I liked the pick at that time, but he has proven to be a waste. I hope he surprises me, and iIhope he is good, and I'd be happy to come back to this thread and admit that I was wrong. I'm not holding my breath for that. 

[Punching Bag]

3 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

This thread is full of people not considering how QB play affects the receiver, even though it is the most important factor.

 

I agree and scheme affects as well.  Zay's first year was ruined by his WR coach who could not teach him on how to make transition to NFL.  Ironically the WR coach was his WR coach in college and recommended him to Coach McD.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Remember who the quarterback was those two years. Are you basically saying our receivers were so terrible for two years that this terrible receiver had better stats than them? Is that what makes him special? I'm sorry but that is a totally meaningless point. This is crap, but that was more crappy, so this is better crap. It is still crap. Zay is nothing special. You could put almost anyone in there and get the same production imo. You can tell me whatever you think about what I know. He sucks. His rookie year sucked, his sophomore year was full of stats in garbage time. He's just not a big deal. He doesn't make plays. I liked the pick at that time, but he has proven to be a waste. I hope he surprises me, and iIhope he is good, and I'd be happy to come back to this thread and admit that I was wrong. I'm not holding my breath for that. 

 

This is a mind boggling contradiction. 

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

This is a mind boggling contradiction. 

 

I don't want to get into some internet argument, but I'm not sure what you are implying. Are you saying the quarterback play was terrible last year? With Josh you can see the obvious upside, despite his inconsistencies. I don't see the upside with Zay. 

[hemma]

Torn labrum made year 1 a waste.

 

He'll be fine.

[Big Gun]

Zay is good, he'll be fine.    

[Shaw66]

Alpha

 

I give you credit.  When you started this thread, my first reaction was no way.  After a while I thought, well, maybe.  

 

Mow I think there's a good chance Zay will be gone. 

 

Beasley, Brown, Foster, Roberts, Williams, Sills could easily push Zay out. 

 

Sills? The problem the Bill's have with Sills is that if he shows real promise, they won't be able to hide him on the practice squad.

 

The problem Zay has is that Sills and William's are his competition, and both of them are fierce competitors.  Zay has to step up his game immediately, because those two will be pedal to the metal immediately.  

 

Great prediction.  

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I don't want to get into some internet argument, but I'm not sure what you are implying. Are you saying the quarterback play was terrible last year? With Josh you can see the obvious upside, despite his inconsistencies. I don't see the upside with Zay. 

 

You are attributing bad WR play to bad QB play, but not giving the same benefit to Zay.  That is a wild contradiction.  Look, people said the same about Zay after his rookie year, and what did he do? He almost doubled his production.  He is on an upward trend.  Why would that trend stop after year 2? How can a player trending up have no "upside?"

[MrEpsYtown]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Alpha

 

I give you credit.  When you started this thread, my first reaction was no way.  After a while I thought, well, maybe.  

 

Mow I think there's a good chance Zay will be gone. 

 

Beasley, Brown, Foster, Roberts, Williams, Sills could easily push Zay out. 

 

Sills? The problem the Bill's have with Sills is that if he shows real promise, they won't be able to hide him on the practice squad.

 

The problem Zay has is that Sills and William's are his competition, and both of them are fierce competitors.  Zay has to step up his game immediately, because those two will be pedal to the metal immediately.  

 

Great prediction.  

 

Great points. I do wonder which of these guys can be special teams guys. Outside of Foster I'm not sure. And if Foster is a starter here, maybe he doesn't play teams. I know it's not the biggest deal, but whoever makes the team needs to have some flexibility and versatility imo. I actually like the Iowa Easley kid a lot and I think he makes a great amount of sense as a slot guy, but he perhaps does make it to the practice. I agree that I don't think Sills does and Sills and Duke both offer size, which I think is something that is desperately needed here. 

[Alphadawg7]

55 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

He had the most catches of any Bills WR since 2016, but sure since the Bills are so loaded with WR talent they should move on.  Also, not for nothing, he had 3 drops last year.  Its pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about, and being driven by his Rookie year narrative (which went completely out the window in year 2).  

 

If I hand you three bags of dog poop, one will smell better than the other two.  Doesn’t mean it smells good.

 

So sorry, this statement is beyond meaningless.  His catch total was not good, his catch rate was not good, almost all his production came in 3 games, he was worthless and dominated badly in weeks 14, 15, and 16 with Allen, he had less than 40 yards receiving in 74% of his career games and 67% of his 2018 games, he was outplayed by an UDFA, and has a career catch rate under 50%.

 

But that’s a nice attempt to make his poop smell like a rose...but it’s still poop.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

If I hand you three bags of dog poop, one will smell better than the other two.  Doesn’t mean it smells good.

 

So sorry, this statement is beyond meaningless.  His catch total was not good, his catch rate was not good, almost all his production came in 3 games, he was worthless and dominated badly in weeks 14, 15, and 16 with Allen, he had less than 40 yards receiving in 74% of his career games and 67% of his 2018 games, he was outplayed by an UDFA, and has a career catch rate under 50%.

 

But that’s a nice attempt to make his poop smell like a rose...but it’s still poop.

 

Well, its more like manure that is in the process of turning into a flower.  Based of course on his upward trajectory.  

 

Look, I'm never opposed to upgrades.  But there aren't any upgrades.  Zay is arguably the second best receiver on the roster.  And since he is continuing to get better, there is literally no reason to trade him (notice I didn't say cut...lol). 

[MrEpsYtown]

6 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You are attributing bad WR play to bad QB play, but not giving the same benefit to Zay.  That is a wild contradiction.  Look, people said the same about Zay after his rookie year, and what did he do? He almost doubled his production.  He is on an upward trend.  Why would that trend stop after year 2? How can a player trending up have no "upside?"

 

I get you.I just don't buy his statistics as being anything all that real. I just don't see it with Zay. I don't see game breaking ability. He doesn't make plays. I want to give him a break for his terrible play his rookie year with Tyrod, and I get that he was injured, but boy as bad as Tyrod was, some of Zay's drops were right on the money. I think you have to attribute his increase in statistics as having played so many snaps with better quarterback play. I think it's impossible for a guy to play as much as he did, be targeted as much as he was, and not put up these numbers. Any receiver in the NFL could do what he did imo. 

[nedboy7]

ZJ is most likely gonna have a career year and make this thread look silly.  What’s the point of arguing over this. 

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Zay will lead the team in receiving. People here are way too hard on him.

We are hard on him because he has a hard time catching the ball, he cant consistently get open, and he lacks game breaking skills.

 

Jones got demoted on the depth chart this year with the additions of Beasley and Brown, and possibly even duke Williams. Make no mistake about that. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I get you.I just don't buy his statistics as being anything all that real. I just don't see it with Zay. I don't see game breaking ability. He doesn't make plays. I want to give him a break for his terrible play his rookie year with Tyrod, and I get that he was injured, but boy as bad as Tyrod was, some of Zay's drops were right on the money. I think you have to attribute his increase in statistics as having played so many snaps with better quarterback play. I think it's impossible for a guy to play as much as he did, be targeted as much as he was, and not put up these numbers. Any receiver in the NFL could do what he did imo. 

 

He definitely isn't a game breaker.  And that is ok. Robert Woods isn't a game breaker.  Stevie Johnson wasn't. The list goes on.  He just needs to be a good WR that gets open.  He does that.  He sucked his rookie year, foooor sure. But he didn't his second year. I think the real problem is peoples vision of him is clouded by his terrible rookie year.  His progress just isn't taken into consideration.  

 

But more importantly, I just don't think the fact that he isn't this mystical "WR1" means that he shouldn't be an NFL starter, or even a back up.  That is just a huge disconnect for me. I mean, with his production last year, there is just no argument that he isn't at least a WR3. Could anyone do what he has done? Maybe.  That is sort of an unprove-able assertion.