Baltimore had 50 yards total offense going into the 4th quarter

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Yes I hate prevent defenses.  Stats are deceiving - you can have a team be down 4 TDs at end of 3rd quarter so opposing defense plays prevent to try to prevent them from winning but they get 3 TDs and statisticians will rave about his 4th quarter performance.  

 

I hate prevent defenses too.  Team has a comfortable 4 TD lead at the end of the 3rd quarter, next thing they're giving up 3 TD, 2 2 point conversions, and they're fighting to keep their opponent out of the end zone on the final drive.  I think they "prevent" the team running that defense from winning all too often.

 

 

[formerlyofCtown]

34 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

This to me was similar to the Denver Manning issue.  Manning did not get them to the playoffs but when push came to shove he was better against better teams due to his brain.  He recognized what opposing defenses were doing, used his eyes to get DBs to bite at wrong time and his voice to get free downs.  Jackson was not ready for playoffs and they should have had discussion DURING halftime with QBs on what would happen if he continued being ineffective.  The 7 DB defense would not have been as effective against Flacco. Part of the issue may be some of the WRs who clearly supported Jackson over Flacco with some local Ravens fans saying that some WRs dogged it trying to get Jackson to be starter.

 

I talked to a coworker this morning that was pissed they didnt put Flacco in.

[formerlyofCtown]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I hate prevent defenses too.  Team has a comfortable 4 TD lead at the end of the 3rd quarter, next thing they're giving up 3 TD, 2 2 point conversions, and they're fighting to keep their opponent out of the end zone on the final drive.  I think they "prevent" the team running that defense from winning all too often.

 

 

Prevent doesnt allow the WRs to get behind the D.  If prevent was in play you wouldnt have a 31 yrd TD and teams dont use prevent in the Red Zone.  They may have given them somebyerds inbetween but that isnt the sole issue here.

[Watkins90]

15 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

1) I do agree they need a way to compute garbage aka Blake Bortles and Matt Stafford stats.

 

2) it is a playoff game so it’s not as garbage time as the regular season.  He made some nice plays at the end of the game.

While it wasn't exactly garbage time, as there wasn't that big of a lead, the Chargers clearly let off the gas, IMO. It just seemed totally different. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Prevent doesnt allow the WRs to get behind the D.  If prevent was in play you wouldnt have a 31 yrd TD and teams dont use prevent in the Red Zone.  They may have given them somebyerds inbetween but that isnt the sole issue here.

 

Correction: Prevent SHOULDN'T allow the WR to get behind the D.  But sometimes it does.  And what makes more sense - letting the opponent knock on your door in the red zone, or keeping them on the wrong side of the 50?

 

I understand your point about how Prevent D is supposed to work, when it works.  My counterpoint is here is a team, sitting on a nice comfortable lead in part because their D played "nasty" and throttled the opponent.  So instead of "dancing with the one who brung ya", you switch to a D that might not fire on all cylinders.  And when it doesn't, well Hey, now the difference between garbage time and a comeback for the bad guys can be miiiiighty thin.

[C.Biscuit97]

I also think some of the biggest Jackson critics would be defending Allen if he had a similar game in the playoffs.

 

jackson has a lot of work to do as pretty much every rookie QB does.  I will say I loved his attitude after the game. He went around high fiving fans who were booing him and taking accountability for his poor play.

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I also think some of the biggest Jackson critics would be defending Allen if he had a similar game in the playoffs.

Ya think?

[billsfan_34]

39 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

That is what I saw from the combine. 

 

Not impressed whatsoever 

SOS.   

 

What teams did they play?

 

 Flacco has a hip  injury and that’s why the RB was kept in at QB.   

 

The FO drafted LJ and decided now is the time and it cost them advancing in the playoffs 

 

 

Flacco is at the end of the line- once alot of tape is out on Lamar things wont be as easy for him.

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Ya think?

There are just some many double standards.  People were praising Allen’s “garbage time” performance against the Chargers in the regular season.  I’m tough on Allen but if he struggle in his first playoff start, I’m giving him a pass.

 

there is zero question Allen has the stronger arm.  But I was talking with a friend about how important touch is for a qb. Eric Ebron struggled with the Lions and had the drops.  He goes to the Colts and becomes a top 5 TE.  Did he just get much better or does Lick throw a more catchable football?  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Flacco is at the end of the line- once alot of tape is out on Lamar things wont be as easy for him.

Oh, I agree Flaco is nearly done.  

 

But his experience and talent “could have” saved that game.  

 

[oldmanfan]

Tough spot for a rookie QB.  That's why I think the Colts win this coming weekend.  First playoff game for Mahomes and the Colts D is playing well.  Plus KC's D is bad and Reid will do something dumb like he does routinely in playoff games.

[formerlyofCtown]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Correction: Prevent SHOULDN'T allow the WR to get behind the D.  But sometimes it does.  And what makes more sense - letting the opponent knock on your door in the red zone, or keeping them on the wrong side of the 50?

 

I understand your point about how Prevent D is supposed to work, when it works.  My counterpoint is here is a team, sitting on a nice comfortable lead in part because their D played "nasty" and throttled the opponent.  So instead of "dancing with the one who brung ya", you switch to a D that might not fire on all cylinders.  And when it doesn't, well Hey, now the difference between garbage time and a comeback for the bad guys can be miiiiighty thin.

But he was able to exploit that D as a passer correct.

[ILBillsfan]

the Media sure is spinning that fourth quarter against prevent defense  (if that is what you call it)  as the true Jackson they just want to focus on the last 5min

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

 

Brother of a different mother?

I think so...?

[Protocal69]

9 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

To me, it seems like maybe it was more than just a football decision to keep Jackson in (which is quite a stupid thing to do in the playoffs IMO). I think they probably didn’t want a QB controversy if Flacco had come in and played well. 

 

But its the playoffs. QB controversy be damned. Just give yourself the best chance to win the game and deal with all the rest when the time comes. 

If Flacco plays well, then great! You now boosted his trade value. 

 

 

The only other thing I can think of is that they wanted to get Jackson the experience for next year and beyond, even at the expense of winning the game... 

 

 

 

It might have been the 18 million guaranteed that the Ravens would have to had to pay if Flacco got hurt.

[Punching Bag]

19 minutes ago, Protocal69 said:

It might have been the 18 million guaranteed that the Ravens would have to had to pay if Flacco got hurt.

 

That certainly is a factor and probably should be but Flacco could have taken insurance for game to cover himself.

[billsfan_34]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Oh, I agree Flaco is nearly done.  

 

But his experience and talent “could have” saved that game.  

 

Absolutely, if Flacco is in they may have won- it is a tough decision to ride the QB carousel. Lamar has to get the ball up hard- leaves it to low going into his throwing motion.

[eball]

15 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

The Ravens hadn't been to the playoffs since 2014. They started the season 3-5 with Flacco(The win against Peterman doesn't count.)

 

I'm sure they were disappointed by and large in Jackson's performance, but they probably don't even make the playoffs without him. For the record, he finished the day with a 78.8 passer rating and 56 yards rushing. They were one possession away from what would have been a historic comeback.

 

He's still a rookie and all rookies improve, correct? Let's hope so.

 

There is some sort of odd narrative out there that (a) Flacco was terrible or something, and (b) Jackson played amazing in the Ravens' 6-1 run to close the regular season.  The Ravens won at Pittsburgh, at Tennessee, and were a missed PAT from taking the Saints to OT in New Orleans behind Flacco.  For the season Flacco's and Jackson's passer ratings were almost identical but Flacco took the same number of sacks as Jackson in over 200 more dropbacks, and there is no question Flacco is a better passer.  The Ravens also changed their run game once Jackson took over.

 

There is a strong probability the Ravens post the same record if Flacco doesn't get hurt and replaced, simply because of their defense.  I can sort of understand Harbaugh sticking with what was perceived as the "hot hand" to start the playoff game, but I remain steadfast in my opinion that it was a brutally bad decision for the team not to replace Jackson in the 3rd quarter.  Quoting Jackson's stats in the last five minutes of the 4th quarter when the Chargers completely changed their approach tells me nothing.

 

An interesting suggestion I've heard from a couple of Ravens fans is that perhaps both Harbaugh and Flacco said "F 'em" to the Ravens.  Harbaugh isn't necessarily planning on staying (he will listen to other offers) and Flacco wasn't exactly lobbying to play and risk injury since he knew he wasn't in their future plans.  I believe the Flacco part (he was likely pissed at the organization) more than the Harbaugh part.  I think Harbaugh is just stubborn.

[Thurman#1]

21 hours ago, H2o said:

A faster, but lesser of a passer version of Tyrod. Lamar is young and may improve though. He has a lot of work to do. 

 

 

He does indeed. But like Josh, he has a lot of time to do all that work. He and Josh are both young.

[Billsfan1972]

I for one did not think Lamar was that good down the stretch during the regular season.  A great defense and certainly very athletic and Baltimore took advantage of his skill set.  He did not throw a whole lot or had a good completion %. 

 

The issue is when they had to rely on Lamar to win the game, or create offense they had no idea what to do.

 

I compare him and the narrative to Allen and nothing but positive press for Lamar, while Josh still has many critics.

 

When watching Lamar, his passing mechanics and throws just are not very good.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[H2o]

8 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

He does indeed. But like Josh, he has a lot of time to do all that work. He and Josh are both young.

Yes, he and Allen are both young with both having work to do. If we are talking about which QB you would rather have leading your team? I take Allen every time. They both are gifted athletically and can take off running with the ball, but Jackson is clearly the more electric of the two. I just see Allen as the more talented QB prospect for the future. Jackson can be Atlanta version Vick-esque throwing for 2,500-3,000 yards a season while rushing for 800 if he can stay healthy. That the absolute most imo. He's kind of frail at this point though and I think the NFL hits will take their toll. I just don't see him ever being the type of QB who wins you games with his arm. I see Allen as being a QB who can succeed from the pocket once we get the OL fixed and upgrade the WR group. I see Allen winning us plenty of games with his arm the better the pieces are around him. Of course all of this is just opinion and we'll have to see how the next 2-3 years play out. 

[DCOrange]

Not sure if it was posted in here already, but the Chargers came out and said after the game that they noticed on film that the Ravens O-Line was tipping their pitches before every play. Based on the way one of their tackles lined up, they knew if it was a pass or a run every single play and based on the way the TEs lined up, they knew exactly where the Ravens planned on running. Pretty alarming if you're a Ravens fan to have coaches that don't notice stuff like that.

[NewEraBills]

I read an article on cbssports yesterday that echoed what I said.  A Chargers player I forget his name said they knew 70% of the Ravens plays.  That loss is entirely on the coaching IMO.  You can't come back and do the same thing and expecting the same results when the other team is doing something else to stop what you did before.  No adjustments is completely on the coaching.

[WideNine]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Correction: Prevent SHOULDN'T allow the WR to get behind the D.  But sometimes it does.  And what makes more sense - letting the opponent knock on your door in the red zone, or keeping them on the wrong side of the 50?

 

I understand your point about how Prevent D is supposed to work, when it works.  My counterpoint is here is a team, sitting on a nice comfortable lead in part because their D played "nasty" and throttled the opponent.  So instead of "dancing with the one who brung ya", you switch to a D that might not fire on all cylinders.  And when it doesn't, well Hey, now the difference between garbage time and a comeback for the bad guys can be miiiiighty thin.

 

Totally agree - and the other problem with prevent-type defenses is if they switch to a passive zone. Most competent QBs and receivers know how to find the soft spots in zone coverage and often those soft spots allow receivers a shot at getting out of bounds and stopping the clock. Most of your patient veteran QBs will eat that situation up to march their team down the field into scoring position.

 

If you are pressuring a QB into making poor decisions, why let up and let him gather himself and get into a rhythm?

 

Offenses practice what they will do for their 2-minute drills so some DCs react to that up-tempo situation. I think defenses are better served sticking to what has worked for them, and keeping the pressure on the QBs. If they go empty backfield, just use the defense you employed to stop that during the game, with an understanding that you do not want to give up the sidelines to stop the clock, but that should not take precedence over simply preventing the completion from happening in the first place via QB pressure and successful man coverage.

 

Probably over-simplifying it, but I have seen a lot of great defensive efforts flushed over the final 2-minutes of a game when a defense stops being aggressive and lays off the gas.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

54 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

I read an article on cbssports yesterday that echoed what I said.  A Chargers player I forget his name said they knew 70% of the Ravens plays.  That loss is entirely on the coaching IMO.  You can't come back and do the same thing and expecting the same results when the other team is doing something else to stop what you did before.  No adjustments is completely on the coaching.

Well then the Cowboys knew 70% of Seattle's plays as they were all runs and they did not take advantage or use Russell Wilson like they should. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

3 hours ago, DCOrange said:

Not sure if it was posted in here already, but the Chargers came out and said after the game that they noticed on film that the Ravens O-Line was tipping their pitches before every play. Based on the way one of their tackles lined up, they knew if it was a pass or a run every single play and based on the way the TEs lined up, they knew exactly where the Ravens planned on running. Pretty alarming if you're a Ravens fan to have coaches that don't notice stuff like that.

 

1 hour ago, NewEraBills said:

I read an article on cbssports yesterday that echoed what I said.  A Chargers player I forget his name said they knew 70% of the Ravens plays.  That loss is entirely on the coaching IMO.  You can't come back and do the same thing and expecting the same results when the other team is doing something else to stop what you did before.  No adjustments is completely on the coaching.

 

Well, there's a couple of points here.  One is, if you execute well enough, the opponent may know what you're going to do and not be able to stop it.

Thurman Thomas is on record saying that about the KGun Bills Offense, that the opponents knew what they were going to run and still couldn't stop it.

 

That may have been the situation for the Ravens - that opponents knew what they were gonna do but couldn't stop it.  Of course, then sooner or later someone who knows what you're going to do does figure out how to stop it (Cleveland 2nd half?), at which point your meal ticket is obsolete 'cuz everyone else picks up on it (Chargers D).

 

Another point is that with Lamar Jackson, the coaches' vocabulary may have been very limited.  It was clear they weren't executing a normal NFL offense, but a stripped-down set of plays tailored to his skills.  There still ought to be room for some misdirection and deception there.

 

I think the point that the Ravens coaches failed to adjust and that in the football chess game of Coach vs Coach, Harbaugh lost, still stands.

 

[KD in CA]

On 1/7/2019 at 6:23 AM, H2o said:

A faster, but lesser of a passer version of Tyrod. Lamar is young and may improve though. He has a lot of work to do. 

 

I'll take "Things I never thought I'd see in the NFL for $200, Alex"

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

 

I'll take "Things I never thought I'd see in the NFL for $200, Alex"

And again as soon as it seemed TT was developing chemistry with Watkins they blew that up to start 2017........  

 

Still concerned as to the Bills commitment to offense.  

[Scott7975]

18 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

But he was able to exploit that D as a passer correct.

Yeah if you want to call it that.  There was some badly blown coverage on at least one of those TD drives.  Even Tyrod Taylor would have exploited that.

[formerlyofCtown]

50 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Yeah if you want to call it that.  There was some badly blown coverage on at least one of those TD drives.  Even Tyrod Taylor would have exploited that.

Wrong answer, you and I and everyone else here knows that Tyrod never saw anyone when they were wide open.

[eball]

20 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I also think some of the biggest Jackson critics would be defending Allen if he had a similar game in the playoffs.

 

jackson has a lot of work to do as pretty much every rookie QB does.  I will say I loved his attitude after the game. He went around high fiving fans who were booing him and taking accountability for his poor play.

 

News flash -- fans defend players on their own team and criticize players on other teams.  At least usually.  That said, Jackson's game was trash.

 

I still don't think Jackson is a very smart guy and as soon as defenses appropriately scheme for his one-trick show (which already began to happen Sunday) he'll be in trouble unless he suddenly becomes someone he hasn't been before.  He's lucky to play on a team with a defense so good they'll make up for his weaknesses most of the time.