Josh Gordon Stepping Away from Football in Advance of this Sunday's Game; Returned to the Reserve/Commissioner Suspended List Indefinitely

[Bing Bong]

3 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

And this years new holiday show ... Martavis Bryant and Josh Gordon's green Christmas.

 

3 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

And this years new holiday show ... Martavis Bryant and Josh Gordon's green Christmas.

BuffaloBud420!!

1 minute ago, freddyjj said:

Why is everyone so sure it is weed.  Alcohol use has gotten guys suspended - Hal Garner and Robb Riddick on the Bills btw back in the day.

He was suspended for alcohol for a year. Aldo if I recall correctly it was pretty specious suspension for minor infraction if the reports are correct

[NoSaint]

Another thing I’m curious about - which matters little but I get curious about these situations....

 

violating terms of his reinstatement and another positive test may be the same thing but may be a number of others. 

 

What terms did he have? 

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

It is not a medical condition. It is a disease.  Like cancer, diabetes etc there are genetic factors.  Not too many of us know our complete family history - might be a factor in Josh's history?  

 

So to follow your train of thought someone can pick up and use for the first time not knowing they are triggering a latent disease.

 

Thanks for the discussion points

 

I would say that both definitions apply- as shown in the quotation of your linked article for the AMA. 

 

I would think that's definitely the case- I also can't imagine when he was first exposed and how exposure at younger ages must affect the overall fight with addiction throughout adulthood. It really is quite sad because, while he does hold some level of responsibility for this issue, there has to be a bunch of unknown factors that have impacted this guys life. 

 

My problem (not that I am an expert at all- just one mans opinion) with how we handle drug issues (or other addiction issues) in this country is that we seem to either take the "it's his bad choices that led him there, he gets what he deserves" or the "look at all the factors and external influences that caused this in him" approaches instead of finding a balance wherein we see that, while he has made bad decisions throughout his life, he has also had negative things/influences that didn't help. Not absolving the personal responsibility, but also understanding the real issue.

 

I don't know if I would say triggering the latent disease because it doesn't become a disease/condition until the addiction is present- it seems more like failure to understand the risk factors. 

 

I can drink without risking alcoholism (at least not more than usual) but if I had a disposition for it, I would be creating conditions that are going to increase my chances of having that happen to me. Like smoking when cancer runs in the family. 

[BlueandRed]

1 hour ago, Cmdjr85 said:

Incorrect. And youre not a doctor or qualified to make these statements

Correct.  The children in the cancer ward didnt chose to do something that brought on the cancer.

 

Calling addiction a disease is just another excuse for the addict.  

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by BlueandRed

[C.Biscuit97]

15 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

And this years new holiday show ... Martavis Bryant and Josh Gordon's green Christmas.

Should just stick to harmless stuff like blow or heroin and beating women.

Edited December 20, 2018 by C.Biscuit97

[whatdrought]

10 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

It's self medicating. Anxiety disorders, depression are what cause drug use. It's not the best decision to start doing a drug you are susceptible, but people that feel mentally off are more likely to experience something that gives them relief. Sometimes it starts with prescription drugs for the very problem you have. 

 

For many addiction is a symptom to underlying mental health. Which affects your decision making.. your desparation for a change. All that. It's not their addicts because they took a drug because they're predisposed to like it. Sometimes they're predisposed to seek anything other than sobriety because sobriety is so hard on them.

 

Ricky Williams and his crippling social anxiety disorder comes to mind. He knew marijuana would help for him. I don't think marijuana is particularly life threatening for people dependent on it, it certainly is for football, but Ricky made the choice to self medicate.

 

You make a good point but there are different types of addicts.. and I think you are narrowing on a certain subgroup.

 

Very good points. I wasn't trying to narrow down into the subgroups and all of that- rather just pointing out that there is a facet of choice in the action of taking drugs (your point about prescription drugs acting as gate-ways is so true and it pisses me off how quickly our medical professionals in this country are to throw pharmaceuticals at issues instead of looking for other ways to help/ side rant). 

 

I think that there are people who end up addicted by accident, or by external factors that aren't specifically their active choice. But there is some balance there wherein each time someone chooses to use, they are responsible for that action- even if they have been hindered by addiction/drug effects. It's the same way that mentally incapable people are still incarcerated in some form or another when they commit violent crimes. There are always consequences to our actions, even actions that we didn't fully realize in the moment. 

[BillsSB2020]

I hope the young man gets his life together. He's actually EXTREMELY intelligent if you've ever heard him speak. Sometimes overthinkers turn to drugs and alcohol. No reason to bash the young man when he's clearly down.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[BillsSB2020]

4 hours ago, dorquemada said:

 

life isn't going to be long for him if he can't straiten out.  it's tragic, and I can't help but wonder if he had gotten some mental health help earlier in his life if this all couldnt have been avoided

Mental health in this country can often be a joke. They give out a bunch of pills because big pharma likes it and ask a few questions then send you on your way.

 

A more holistic approach is more effective, but money reigns supreme. Sticking to the subject, Josh Gordon seems like a smart troubled young man. I hope the best for him. It's not going to be in football.

[Mr. WEO]

This is why the NFL will never budge on marijuana...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

So much virtue signaling in EVERY direction in this thread.

 

[BillsSB2020]

3 hours ago, whatdrought said:

The sad part of this is that if he can’t get his ***** together with a ton of money on the line and all the help imaginable, it’s hard to imagine him doing it on his own when the league finally cuts its losses.

 

I hope something major happens and he is met with the reality of his decisions, but history says he has a long long road.

Some people need to hit rock bottom as awful as that may be. 

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, ricojes said:

He should have just joined this board and posted something like "What's your definition of Mental Health?"

 

 

Just to be sure...

 

 

 

If dealing with the aftermath of that did not make him go back to hitting the pipe, nothing would.

 

 

 

And a bit more about how the Patriots plan to fill the gap left by Gordon - and an almost interesting story around how Belichick informed Gilmore of making his 2nd pro-bowl. Its good to know he never breaks character.

 

Game planning after Gordon's departure and other Patriot news "stuff"

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by WideNine

[BillsSB2020]

35 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

 

BuffaloBud420!!

He was suspended for alcohol for a year. Aldo if I recall correctly it was pretty specious suspension for minor infraction if the reports are correct

Really unfortunate circumstances too. He thought he could drink because the BROWNS season was over. Had a couple drinks on the plane and was tested when he landed. Turned out the ban was for the football calendar which didn't end until after the Superbowl. Of course it was silly of Gordon not to know those rules and considering what has transpired since, probably wouldn't have mattered. Either way, not a big fan of throwing stones from glass houses. The word "loser" could certainly be thrown at people who work menial jobs, etc. Josh Gordon attained success in the NFL and made some mistakes so who's the LOSER? My answer would be neither because labeling others as such is a fools errand.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[billsfan_34]

3 hours ago, TuelTime said:

 

Or he has mental health issues and uses marijuana to medicate. It is a shame that one of the best WRs in the game isn't able to smoke a little weed and play football but it is okay to pump them full of opiates so they can get back in the game. These guys are getting CTE from receiving repeated blows to the head. But yeah, lets worry about them puffing a little devil's lettuce. The rampant ignorance in this country is sickening.

Not against pot- just sayin pot is actually in the class of psychotics/hallucinogens. This may not be the best drug for his mental health. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, Cmdjr85 said:

Incorrect. And youre not a doctor or qualified to make these statements

Maybe hes an addict or a former addict.  As long as an individual is allowed to tell themself that it is out of their controll such as is the case with a disease then they will continue to be an addict.

 

Now people with mental and emotional issues can tend to be impulsive and that is a mental illness but addiction is just a hard cycle of choices to escape.

[26CornerBlitz]

Patriots WR Josh Gordon Indefinitely Suspended

 

Josh Gordon is stepping away from football to focus on his mental health.

 

The New England Patriots receiver announced the decision on Thursday.

 

"I take my mental health very seriously at this point to ensure I remain able to perform at the highest level," Gordon wrote in a statement. "I have recently felt like I could have a better grasp on things mentally. With that said, I will be stepping away from the football field for a bit to focus on my mental health. I would like to thank Coach Belichick, Mr. Kraft, as well as countless others with the Patriotsorganization for their continued support. I want to thank my fans for their support as well as I continue down the path to getting back to 100 percent."

 

Gordon has a long history of mental health and substance abuse issues.

 

 

[TigerJ]

I'm sad for Josh Gordon.  I'm not sad for New England, or the fact that New England has lost their most gifted receiver.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[starrymessenger]

I feel sorry for the guy. Seems like the ongoing problem is testing positive for weed. He hasn't been creating disturbances in public or harming people (except himself) if I remember correctly. So he has an addictive personality and can't lay off the stuff. It's a real shame that so great a talent has been wasted. 

[Doc Brown]

Happy Brady has fewer weapons limping into the playoffs.  Feel bad for Gordon though as this was his last shot.  Probably.

[dubs]

I don’t know enough about Josh Gordon’s life, mental state or substance abuse problem to make an intelligent comment about it. 

[Bing Bong]

1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:

Not against pot- just sayin pot is actually in the class of psychotics/hallucinogens. This may not be the best drug for his mental health. 

On another subject while I completely think pot is harmless for pretty much all NFL players (there's always exceptions). the drug has absolutely no PED qualities.. in fact I'd imagine quite the opposite and it'd be pretty damn hard to focus on minute details like the PLAYBOOK and snap count, and for all intents and purposes should be the players' business using the drug....

 

I don't find for a second that it helps with pain relief anymore than placebo compared to a legitimate narcotic PAINKILLER which specifically targets pain receptors while marijuana is simply a mind altering drug.. maybe it distracts you from pain I GUESS. Pharmacology of marijuana simply points it to be a psychoactive drug so any percieved effects on pain relief are just that.. percieved lol.

 

So I don't get the push to allow marijuana in the NFL as a friggin replacement to pain. I just don't think it really needs to be banned since it really does nothing to these players whatsoever other than what they think they are benefitting from it lol. Always found that a weird argument.

 

Don't ban pot and players will stop taking pain killers?? Nah there's no benign action from the drug in that regard. Just don't ban it cause it doesn't matter and if someone thinks it helps.. cool.. whatever. It really does nothing to your neurotransmitters or body at all as far as modern medicine is supposed to do for ailments. And I know a million people say anecdotally it cures any symptom you can name.. that's just because it's a psychoactive drug that creates a placebo for whatever you want to imagine it benefits you for.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

 

Thinking out loud I just edited that it’s trading a bottom 5th for top of 7th.... so 35-40ish draft slots on day 3? It’s possible they still get the exact guy they end up targeting AND got a starting WR for half a season on a contract for peanuts. Again, even in this worst case, was it really a loss for them? Erase all the upside and it’s not a terrible deal.

 

 

Not to disagree to much, but you were probably closer with the 60 picks than 35-40.  Cleveland is mid round and NE will be 15 picks or so later.  

 

So 5th to 6th is 32 picks plus 5th round comps (5 or so). Then the rest of the 6th and those Comp picks ( another 5 or so). So if Cleveland is 15 and NE ends up 27th you would have 32 picks + 5 (end of rd 5) + 15 (rd 7) + comp picks - about 55 - 70 picks or so.

 

I do not think it is a loss other than the fact they have counted on him being there and now he is gone.  They could have made a different move and maybe had not given up a pick and had someone for the rest of the season.

 

It ends up being low risk and very low reward for them.

[Just Joshin']

42 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I would be more sympathetic if he had stepped away for his mental health if he was not being suspended.  If not caught, he would have continued on with no concern.

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

I would be more sympathetic if he had stepped away for his mental health if he was not being suspended.  If not caught, he would have continued on with no concern.

 

We don't know how he violated the terms and with the Patriots still behind him it doesn't sound like he was "caught".

[NoSaint]

6 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

Not to disagree to much, but you were probably closer with the 60 picks than 35-40.  Cleveland is mid round and NE will be 15 picks or so later.  

 

So 5th to 6th is 32 picks plus 5th round comps (5 or so). Then the rest of the 6th and those Comp picks ( another 5 or so). So if Cleveland is 15 and NE ends up 27th you would have 32 picks + 5 (end of rd 5) + 15 (rd 7) + comp picks - about 55 - 70 picks or so.

 

I do not think it is a loss other than the fact they have counted on him being there and now he is gone.  They could have made a different move and maybe had not given up a pick and had someone for the rest of the season.

 

It ends up being low risk and very low reward for them.

Ah yea, comps- I always forget to add those in! But yea, point generally remains, little given and some gotten. If you take out the “told you so” factor it’s a pretty reasonable move even knowing the outcome.

 

if they had other better options, I’m not sure I saw them and we were as WR hungry as it gets.

[BillyWhiteShows]

6 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

On another subject while I completely think pot is harmless for pretty much all NFL players (there's always exceptions). the drug has absolutely no PED qualities.. in fact I'd imagine quite the opposite and it'd be pretty damn hard to focus on minute details like the PLAYBOOK and snap count, and for all intents and purposes should be the players' business using the drug....

 

I don't find for a second that it helps with pain relief anymore than placebo compared to a legitimate narcotic PAINKILLER which specifically targets pain receptors while marijuana is simply a mind altering drug.. maybe it distracts you from pain I GUESS. Pharmacology of marijuana simply points it to be a psychoactive drug so any percieved effects on pain relief are just that.. percieved lol.

 

So I don't get the push to allow marijuana in the NFL as a friggin replacement to pain. I just don't think it really needs to be banned since it really does nothing to these players whatsoever other than what they think they are benefitting from it lol. Always found that a weird argument.

 

Don't ban pot and players will stop taking pain killers?? Nah there's no benign action from the drug in that regard. Just don't ban it cause it doesn't matter and if someone thinks it helps.. cool.. whatever. It really does nothing to your neurotransmitters or body at all as far as modern medicine is supposed to do for ailments. And I know a million people say anecdotally it cures any symptom you can name.. that's just because it's a psychoactive drug that creates a placebo for whatever you want to imagine it benefits you for.

 

This is like the Seantrel Henderson debate.  Regardless of what you think about pit, it’s a substance on the NFL ‘s banned list.  

 

When you are making millions of dollars and have teammates depending on you, you don’t take drugs that are on the NFL’s banned list w/o consulting team or league doctors.  

 

Its just bad business.  If it is a problem with addiction then good for him for stepping away and getting help.  But this is not a debate over marijuana, it’s an issue of a player repeatedly banned substances.

[frostbitmic]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Should just stick to harmless stuff like blow or heroin and beating women.

WTF ?

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

This is like the Seantrel Henderson debate.  Regardless of what you think about pit, it’s a substance on the NFL ‘s banned list.  

 

When you are making millions of dollars and have teammates depending on you, you don’t take drugs that are on the NFL’s banned list w/o consulting team or league doctors.  

 

Its just bad business.  If it is a problem with addiction then good for him for stepping away and getting help.  But this is not a debate over marijuana, it’s an issue of a player repeatedly banned substances.

Or something else related to reinstatement (missed test? Missed mandatory counseling? I don’t know his terms- not that it matters much in “you have a handful of things to do and didn’t do it”)

[Bing Bong]

3 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

This is like the Seantrel Henderson debate.  Regardless of what you think about pit, it’s a substance on the NFL ‘s banned list.  

 

When you are making millions of dollars and have teammates depending on you, you don’t take drugs that are on the NFL’s banned list w/o consulting team or league doctors.  

 

Its just bad business.  If it is a problem with addiction then good for him for stepping away and getting help.  But this is not a debate over marijuana, it’s an issue of a player repeatedly banned substances.

I'm aware.. that's why i prefaced with "on another subject..."

 

just some musings that's all.

[SoCal Deek]

24 minutes ago, dubs said:

I don’t know enough about Josh Gordon’s life, mental state or substance abuse problem to make an intelligent comment about it. 

Thanks for sharing that.  I'm going to put you down as 'undecided' then.

[dubs]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thanks for sharing that.  I'm going to put you down as 'undecided' then.

 

Hah. Well, I know that post sounded silly but thought it might be helpful for many people to know they don’t HAVE to take a position on everything, especially on things they don’t really know much about. 

[MJS]

Biggest waste of space and talent that I can think of.

[Beast]

You mean the almighty Patriots weren’t able to turn this guy around?

 

I am salivating at their oncoming demise.

[Saint Doug]

6 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

He smokes pot and is using mental health as an excuse. One of the reasons people struggle recognizing mental health as a legit issue is the guys like this who will use it as a crutch. 

Ummmm. A large proportion of people who habitually use drugs usually do so due to mental health reasons. It’s called self-treatment. And, I don’t think there’s really many people who still “struggle” to recognize the mental health as a “legit issue” considering suicide rates are increasing, but if there still are, hopefully they can find a time machine to make it back to from 1950.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

 

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

I would be more sympathetic if he had stepped away for his mental health if he was not being suspended.  If not caught, he would have continued on with no concern.

 

...and making the announcement was not going to preemptively earn leniency from Judge Goodell.......it's a condition of employment regardless of legality in some states.......at the same time, I do not agree with random ttesting in the off season which is the individual's time AWAY from employment and it should be their prerogative whether legal in the home state or not....then again the NFL gets to set the rules of "privileged membership" afforded to only 1,696................