Browns at Broncos - Saturday Night Football

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Even if they were to come back, there is no way in hell kicking the field goal in that situation is the right call. I guarantee you the win pctg calculators would tell you to go for it.

 

I would have gone for it too, but Greggo bailed him out. All for naught in the end. 

[whatdrought]

Who came up with that offensive call on the last two plays? Jeez.

[Livinginthepast]

Both coaches acted like they were trying to outdo each other with stupid calls to LOSE this game. 

[Buddy Hix]

Good game but such brutal coaching. Billion dollar teams being managed by dinosaurs.

[Boatdrinks]

Even with the questionable decisions, still an entertaining game

[zow2]

I thought it was dumb at the time for Denver to clock it on first down with 50 secs to go.  I knew they would regret that.  Don’t throw away precious downs when you don’t need to.

[GETTOTHE50]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

I thought it was dumb at the time for Denver to clock it on first down with 50 secs to go.  I knew they would regret that.  Don’t throw away precious downs when you don’t need to.

 

Yep. Only do it when you’re in FG range 

[Big Gun]

Just now, Buddy Hix said:

Good game but such brutal coaching. Billion dollar teams being managed by dinosaurs.

Kind of like our guy who everyone says is safe yet isn't any better than all these other guys supposedly going to be fired in a few weeks. Guess we'll find out soon.

[Shortchaz]

Did they say the Broncos haven’t had back to back losing seasons since the 70’s? Crazy if true 

[LSHMEAB]

I think Gregg made the right decision to go and try to end the game but I'm a guy who doesn't generally believe in FG's on 4th and 1 in either situation.

 

Didn't like the Browns play at all, but definitely would have gone. Get it and you end the game. Don't get it and they have to drive quite a ways and hope they make a field goal.

 

Joseph's decision was completely chickensh** IMO.

Edited December 16, 2018 by LSHMEAB

[The Frankish Reich]

7 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

Both coaches acted like they were trying to outdo each other with stupid calls to LOSE this game. 

Yep. It's not about being "aggressive" vs. "conservative." It's about the probabilities. The Broncos needed to go for it on 4th down to take the lead, knowing that just one 1st down by the Browns could kill them. They kicked the FG. The Browns needed to take the FG since the Broncos had shown little likelihood of being able to go 70 or so yards for a TD. They went for it and failed.

And still ... if the Browns finish strong, how do they fire Greggy?? Is it possible they'll re-up him??

[LSHMEAB]

The only question I really have is what would Josh have done in either situation.

 

WWJD?

Edited December 16, 2018 by LSHMEAB

[Livinginthepast]

8 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yep. It's not about being "aggressive" vs. "conservative." It's about the probabilities. The Broncos needed to go for it on 4th down to take the lead, knowing that just one 1st down by the Browns could kill them. They kicked the FG. The Browns needed to take the FG since the Broncos had shown little likelihood of being able to go 70 or so yards for a TD. They went for it and failed.

And still ... if the Browns finish strong, how do they fire Greggy?? Is it possible they'll re-up him??

I think Gregg deserves a shot next year. He has at least got the best out of that team. He still seems the total dbag he was here years ago. I love his new hipster glasses BTW! When he made that time out call just as the Broncos were going offside. I could not help but be reminded of all the humiliating gaffes he had here and all his blowhard bravado about the 2001 Bills "can win the SB"! 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Livinginthepast

[The Frankish Reich]

7 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

The only question I really have is what would Josh have done in either situation.

 

WWJD?

All I know is that the Broncos with Josh probably would've won this game. The Broncos with a fantastic young pass rusher taken with the 5th overall pick are cleaning out their lockers in a couple weeks.

Edited December 16, 2018 by The Frankish Reich

[cle23]

1 minute ago, Livinginthepast said:

I think Gregg deserves a shot next year. He has at least got the best out of that team. He still seems the total dbag he was here years ago. I love his new hipster glasses BTW! When he made that time out call just as the Broncos were going offside. I could not help but reminded of all the humiliating gaffes he had here and all his blowhard bravado about the 2001 Bills "can win the SB"! 

 

I want to keep Gregg more or less simply to keep Kitchens. Obviously he and Baker are great together.  From 3-36-1 Hue to 4-2 Gregg.

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, cle23 said:

 

I want to keep Gregg more or less simply to keep Kitchens. Obviously he and Baker are great together.  From 3-36-1 Hue to 4-2 Gregg.

Yeah, a weird situation for them. I think they fired Hue early so they could line up the full-time replacement before the season even ends (Riley from Oklahoma?). Now Gregg is messing up the plan!

[PromoTheRobot]

25 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Actually turning into a great game.

Field goals on 4th and 1 are for losers.

 

Well really if they went for it on 4th and 1 the Browns would have likely tied the game late. Then Dever could have won the game on a FG. But considering they couldn't get one with 2 minutes to play, who knows how it would have turned out?

[uticaclub]

Did anyone catch the post game? Baker thanked Drew Stanton in his development, helping him read defenses and go through progressions. I thought it was weird that he was thanking the 3rd string guy & not Tyrod. Then i remembered how Tyrod couldn't go through progressions or read defenses, so happy we get to see Allen play instead of Tyrod

[cle23]

4 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yeah, a weird situation for them. I think they fired Hue early so they could line up the full-time replacement before the season even ends (Riley from Oklahoma?). Now Gregg is messing up the plan!

 

I've heard Riley isn't being considered at all. Arians possibly, and he would keep Kitchens. After that, Dorsey is as tight lipped as they come. Very few had any clue of Mayfield and Ward being the picks before they happened. 

2 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Did anyone catch the post game? Baker thanked Drew Stanton in his development, helping him read defenses and go through progressions. I thought it was weird that he was thanking the 3rd string guy & not Tyrod. Then i remembered how Tyrod couldn't go through progressions or read defenses, so happy we get to see Allen play instead of Tyrod

 

That, and Stanton was hired as essentially a personal QB coach for Baker.

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, cle23 said:

 

I've heard Riley isn't being considered at all. Arians possibly, and he would keep Kitchens. After that, Dorsey is as tight lipped as they come. Very few had any clue of Mayfield and Ward being the picks before they happened. 

Interesting ... maybe Greggo can go back to DC, although his ego would probably never allow that

[Boatdrinks]

22 minutes ago, pop gun said:

Kind of like our guy who everyone says is safe yet isn't any better than all these other guys supposedly going to be fired in a few weeks. Guess we'll find out soon.

Saying a Coach is safe simply because no one thinks the owner will make a change isn’t the same as saying he’s better than those other coaches. Even if they are likely to be fired soon. 

[The Frankish Reich]

4 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Did anyone catch the post game? Baker thanked Drew Stanton in his development, helping him read defenses and go through progressions. I thought it was weird that he was thanking the 3rd string guy & not Tyrod. Then i remembered how Tyrod couldn't go through progressions or read defenses, so happy we get to see Allen play instead of Tyrod

Tyrod, I have a feeling John Elway may be giving you a call ...

[Big Gun]

6 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Tyrod, I have a feeling John Elway may be giving you a call ...

Why, Tyrod stinks.

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, pop gun said:

Why, Tyrod stinks.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with Case Keenum, starting QB.  Really, they've got to try something different, and their options are very limited with the salary cap and a poor QB draft in front of them. You do realize the current backup is Kevin Hogan? That they brought Nathan Peterman in for a tryout?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

The Broncos going for that FG down 17-13 with like 4 minutes to go on 4th and 1 and then 4th and 6 after the delay of game makes me want to puke...and I had no rooting interest in the game. 

 

Conservative football deserves to lose. 

[Shortchaz]

25 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

The Broncos going for that FG down 17-13 with like 4 minutes to go on 4th and 1 and then 4th and 6 after the delay of game makes me want to puke...and I had no rooting interest in the game. 

 

Conservative football deserves to lose. 

At the time I was okay with that, they had timeouts and their defense was playing great. With that field goal, even if the Browns scored a td, the Broncos were still in the game. I usually agree with your argument, but was okay with the field goal in this case.

[John from Riverside]

56 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

The Broncos going for that FG down 17-13 with like 4 minutes to go on 4th and 1 and then 4th and 6 after the delay of game makes me want to puke...and I had no rooting interest in the game. 

 

Conservative football deserves to lose. 

and the browns going for the 1st when they could have made it a 4 point game to force the TD is LUNACY

 

It worked out for them in the end...but that could easily have been a disaster

[y2zipper]

That decision to kick the FG is why Minny paid cousins. Keenum is so awful they don't trust him to get a yard.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with Case Keenum, starting QB.  Really, they've got to try something different, and their options are very limited with the salary cap and a poor QB draft in front of them. You do realize the current backup is Kevin Hogan? That they brought Nathan Peterman in for a tryout?

 

Case Keenum > Tyrod Taylor. 

2 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

The Broncos going for that FG down 17-13 with like 4 minutes to go on 4th and 1 and then 4th and 6 after the delay of game makes me want to puke...and I had no rooting interest in the game. 

 

Conservative football deserves to lose. 

 

That decision is the final nail in Joseph's coffin. Usually when a GM thinks about firing a Head Coach after one year it is the right call and he should follow through and do it because otherwise you just waste a year. Exhibit A: Terry Pegula with Rex Ryan. Exhibit B: John Elway with Vance Joseph. Someone send that memo to the Cardinals owners. 

[Hebert19]

3 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

The Broncos going for that FG down 17-13 with like 4 minutes to go on 4th and 1 and then 4th and 6 after the delay of game makes me want to puke...and I had no rooting interest in the game. 

 

Conservative football deserves to lose. 

Speak it brother. 

1 hour ago, y2zipper said:

That decision to kick the FG is why Minny paid cousins. Keenum is so awful they don't trust him to get a yard.

Cousins ain't much better

[mannc]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

and the browns going for the 1st when they could have made it a 4 point game to force the TD is LUNACY

 

It worked out for them in the end...but that could easily have been a disaster

No, it was the correct decision and it’s not close.  First down and the game is over.  Chance of getting first down there is about 80%.  Win percentage being up 4 points after a kick off, with that much time left, is not much better than only being up 1 with the ball on the Broncs’  own 10 yard line.  The math is pretty simple and compelling in favor of going for it.  

5 hours ago, Augie said:

So is losing. You play smart, make them score a TD. 

Except it’s not smart.  It’s dumb.  

[mannc]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

And how do you not take 3 points there?

Because they wanted to win?

[HomeskillitMoorman]

3 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

At the time I was okay with that, they had timeouts and their defense was playing great. With that field goal, even if the Browns scored a td, the Broncos were still in the game. I usually agree with your argument, but was okay with the field goal in this case.

 

I can't agree, they had a shot right there to get the first down or take the lead on 4th and 1 from inside the opposition's 10. Gotta go for the killshot there. 

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

and the browns going for the 1st when they could have made it a 4 point game to force the TD is LUNACY

 

It worked out for them in the end...but that could easily have been a disaster

 

I loved that call. 4th and 1 and a shot to end the game right there and then with the ball in the hands of one of your best players...I'm taking that chance all day. They didn't get it but I have no problem at all with the logic there.

 

If McD ever makes a call like that, I'm behind it every time. But most likely he kicks the FG in both scenarios. 

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

The Broncos going for that FG down 17-13 with like 4 minutes to go on 4th and 1 and then 4th and 6 after the delay of game makes me want to puke...and I had no rooting interest in the game. 

 

Conservative football deserves to lose. 

Yup.  It shows a lack of faith in your offense and isn't that atypical for a head coach with a defensive background.  If you don't make it then the Browns are still backed up near their own endzone and you rely on your defense to give your offense another shot.  It's possible that decision was the nail in his coffin.  Do you think Elway would've been pissed if he was the Broncos quarterback in that situation and they kicked a field goal?

[HomeskillitMoorman]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Case Keenum > Tyrod Taylor. 

 

That decision is the final nail in Joseph's coffin. Usually when a GM thinks about firing a Head Coach after one year it is the right call and he should follow through and do it because otherwise you just waste a year. Exhibit A: Terry Pegula with Rex Ryan. Exhibit B: John Elway with Vance Joseph. Someone send that memo to the Cardinals owners. 

 

Yup, it probably is. I honestly think for some coaches the objective is just to keep it close, not to win the game. 

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Yup.  It shows a lack of faith in your offense and isn't that atypical for a head coach with a defensive background.  If you don't make it then the Browns are still backed up near their own endzone and you rely on your defense to give your offense another shot.  It's possible that decision was the nail in his coffin.  Do you think Elway would've been pissed if he was the Broncos quarterback in that situation and they kicked a field goal?

 

Absolutely, it's the right call all the way around to go for it. 

 

And oh yeah, Elway would have been livid. Joseph probably wasn't thinking about that in that moment, but having a former QB and especially a HOF one as a GM is going to be killer here. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by HomeskillitMoorman

[mannc]

2 hours ago, y2zipper said:

That decision to kick the FG is why Minny paid cousins. Keenum is so awful they don't trust him to get a yard.

No excuse.  You probably run the ball there anyway.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The cult of sharp and schopp showed up stronk in this thread. Fascinating.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Yup.  It shows a lack of faith in your offense and isn't that atypical for a head coach with a defensive background.  If you don't make it then the Browns are still backed up near their own endzone and you rely on your defense to give your offense another shot.  It's possible that decision was the nail in his coffin.  Do you think Elway would've been pissed if he was the Broncos quarterback in that situation and they kicked a field goal?

 

...Vance probably should start packing now...............

6 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Tyrod, I have a feeling John Elway may be giving you a call ...

 

 

....well John DOES know QB's....just ask him..............

[PromoTheRobot]

7 hours ago, pop gun said:

Why, Tyrod stinks.

 

I thought I read that Allen is a poor version of Tyrod?

3 hours ago, mannc said:

Because they wanted to win?

 

I was going to say how did that work out for them? But they still won.