Allen is More Accurate Than I Thought He Would Be

[Forward Progress]

What I like most about Allen is that he plays to win the game.  Every third down play he throws (or runs) with the goal of getting a new set of downs.  It drove me nuts when Tyrod would hit the checkdown for a 4-yard gain on 3rd and 8.  Tyrod gets a boost to his passer rating on the play, but the result isn't any better than an incomplete pass.

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

his problem (but can also be a strength)  is he has a backyard football or hero ball mentality. Its good for extending plays but sometimes he rushes throws, throws off his back foot, across his body, or just throws it has hard as he can (instead of 70% which is probably good enough). This results in inaccuracy.

When he actually gets his base set and drives into the ball he is very accurate.

 

I'm not sure this is true.

 

Allen is some kind of freak who is most accurate running full speed throwing lasers down the field. He might be the only QB I've ever seen where this is true. 

 

He still misses easy throws when he has his feet set. Pretty much anytime he doesn't throw a "fastball", his accuracy dips. 

 

When he just rips it, he's very accurate. It's the touch passes where he has to take some off a throw or drop it over a defender where he still struggles. 

[Antonio]

I agree, he is much more accurate that people give him credit for.

 

In my opinion, the area where he needs to improve is to not throw so hard all the time. There are times that a simple easy to catch ball is required, therefore it will be easier for the WR to catch or even to adjust to the ball if needed. 

 

Take the pass to Zay that he missed for example. He put too much into it. If not, Zay would of had time to stop as he did and put to hands on the ball insted of just one. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Forward Progress said:

What I like most about Allen is that he plays to win the game.  Every third down play he throws (or runs) with the goal of getting a new set of downs.  It drove me nuts when Tyrod would hit the checkdown for a 4-yard gain on 3rd and 8.  Tyrod gets a boost to his passer rating on the play, but the result isn't any better than an incomplete pass.

 

Agreed.

 

Unfortunately McDermott uses the opposite mindset and is way too conservative. 

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

16 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

And this will be on his coaching. Will his coaches make him a pocket passer before he's ready. They tried this with Tyrod and it sucked. Let him be JA and build around that like the Steelers did with Ben or the 49er with Young or the Titans with McNair. Don't take away what he does best.

 

I went hard yesterday saying Allen needs to Run a lot less.

 

frankly i would prefer they approach  the next four games as more opportunities to experiment and learn than a win at all cost approach.

 

if that means Allen stays in the pocket and attempts different types of throws based on his analysis of the defense...I will take that over a immediate scramble for a first down.

 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I don't buy that.  The throw is there to be made. Gotta have it when an NFL receiver comes that open by design in a clean pocket. 

 

Yeah, you wouldn't. 

[VADC Bills]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Agreed.

 

He can run 10 times a game now, but in 2 years that number should be around 5 times a game. He needs to reduce the number of times he gets hit if he's going to stay healthy. 

I would love to see him check down a little more.

I would like for the coordinators to design screens for him and incorporate more crossing patterns.

Once that happens we will put a lot more points on the board.

[CuddyDark]

1 minute ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

I went hard yesterday saying Allen needs to Run a lot less.

 

frankly i would prefer they approach  the next four games as more opportunities to experiment and learn than a win at all cost approach.

 

if that means Allen stays in the pocket and attempts different types of throws based on his analysis of the defense...I will take that over a immediate scramble for a first down.

 

 

We're not playing for this year. You job IMO is to let him be JA and build around that and come out with an offense next year that is all about what he does best. You can't force him to be a player he's not. Not at this point in his career. Working on that in the pocket stuff is in the offseason and on his own time with receivers after practice. For the Bills it should be this is how we win with JA as our QB.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

I do not look at accuracy as a duality--you either are or you are not accurate.  I see it as a spectrum.  Allen is by no means the most accurate quarterback.  But coming into the year, based on the scouting reports and every thing I had heard, I had expected him to be grossly inaccurate.  I do not think that has been the case.  He misses alot of throws; Zay in the endzone, Clay in the endzone, the interception.  But aside from those, he made numerous intermediate throws that were deadly accurate.  That throw to Zay at the end of the game that Zay dropped was a dime.  

 

The big thing is that I think his completion percentage is a bit misleading.  For whatever reason, probably because he has not developed his reads, Allen doesn't take the check down often.  Those check down throws really inflate completion percentages, especially for rookies.  Almost all of Allen's throws are over ten yards in the air.  Those lower percentage intermediate throws will always drive a completion percentage down.  

 

Point is this, I am happy with Allen's accuracy.  It is better than I expected, and I am hoping he will improve.  I am much more excited about Allen now than I was when we first drafted him.  

 

I agree with much of this. When i heard inaccurate I was much more thinking along the lines of ball placement where receivers are going to need to make circus catches on throws that should have hit them in stride. This is not the case for the most part.

 

Allen throws downfield a LOT. His completion percentage suffers in part because these are more difficult throws. Secondly, its pretty clear Allen is being coached to get out of the pocket and throw the ball away if nothing is there and he has no running lane. He has at least 4 or 5 of these every game.  One of the big changes I have noticed is that when he gets out of the pocket now he doesnt take off immediately he is looking for guys open downfield and making plays on the run...big difference from the first few games where he just took off with his head down not looking downfield. When you are only throwing 19 or 20 passes that's automatically starting you off at a 75% and in no way shape or form has anything to do with his real accuracy.

 

Are there some throws he misses? Sure there are. Everyone wants to point to the Zay throw but this is not really a case of being inaccurate. He put the ball exactly where Zay would have been of he sat down. Zay kept running. It looked wildly inacurate but it wasn't, just two young players not on the same page.

 

The Clay throw was tough because he was running all over and then kind of heaved it on the move. Could it have been better? Of course. Was it catchable? Absolutely.

 

The biggest thing with Allen I think is he needs to learn how to dial it down a notch or two when needed. Every throw does not need to be a laser. Sometimes a little air under the ball can do wonders especially when receivers are wide open.

 

That said, Allen throws darts many times downfield that only a handful of NFL QBs could throw. It will be really interesting to see how much better he gets with more experience and with better weapons and protection. At the very least i think its clear to see why the Bills and many other teams coveted Allen...the guy has a ceiling as high as any QB I can recall...he can literally do it all...

Edited December 3, 2018 by matter2003

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Yeah, you wouldn't. 

 

Why would I or anyone else with higher expecations?  That's not a difficult throw for an NFL QB who's not under pressure. It has to be a completion. 

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

3 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

We're not playing for this year. You job IMO is to let him be JA and build around that and come out with an offense next year that is all about what he does best. You can't force him to be a player he's not. Not at this point in his career. Working on that in the pocket stuff is in the offseason and on his own time with receivers after practice. For the Bills it should be this is how we win with JA as our QB.

 

But...if they aren’t playing for this year...then why not experiment?

 

we know he can run and we know he can throw on the run.

 

these four games work on what you don’t do so well or on areas that are uncomfortable.

 

ie...staying in the pocket.

 

if you let him be Josh Allen...then your a parent who is basically just caving to a crying baby to get them to stop crying.

 

Better to sit back there in the pocket and toss 45 balls for 300 yards and maybe 2-3 Tds and 2-3 ints. When your 4-8.

Edited December 3, 2018 by RalphWilson'sNewWar

[CuddyDark]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Why would I or anyone else with higher expecations?  That's not a difficult throw for an NFL QB who's not under pressure. It has to be a completion. 

Or, they should just get rid of throws like this until he hits them in practice. In games they should be running crosses and posts and curls so he can throw those frozen ropes he's good at. Right now that throw should only be in the offense once teams force it.

2 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

But...if they aren’t playing for this year...then why not experiment?

 

we know he can run and we know he can throw on the run.

 

these four games work on what you don’t do so well or on areas that are uncomfortable.

 

ie...staying in the pocket.

I just don't see him as a traditional pocket QB. I'd do what he does best and force teams to stop it. What you want is for him to perfect what he does best. Get him some all day runners at WR and a couple TE, C and a G and do what he does best all game long. Force the defense to change what they do to stop you.

Edited December 3, 2018 by CuddyDark

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

Or, they should just get rid of throws like this until he hits them in practice. In games they should be running crosses and posts and curls so he can throw those frozen ropes he's good at. Right now that throw should only be in the offense once teams force it.

 

You shouldn't have to play offense with those kind of limitations.  It was a great play design to get Foster wide open and the accurate throw simply has to be made.  It's why Allen was drafted in the top ten after the limited QB was traded away.   Hopefully next time he hits it because he's capable of executing the throw. 

[bobblehead]

20 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You are for sure right, but that is a tough NFL throw.  He hits that he is already at franchise QB status.  But that is a tough ask for a rookie.  I hope he gets there, but I'm not upset he hasn't hit that throw yet. 

I don’t think that pass should have been attempted. If Foster catches that, that defender puts him in the hospital 

[NickelCity]

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

The single most exaggerated criticism of Allen. 

 

It's staggering. 

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

But...if they aren’t playing for this year...then why not experiment?

 

we know he can run and we know he can throw on the run.

 

these four games work on what you don’t do so well or on areas that are uncomfortable.

 

ie...staying in the pocket.

 

if you let him be Josh Allen...then your a parent who is basically just caving to a crying baby to get them to stop crying.

 

Better to sit back there in the pocket and toss 45 balls for 300 yards and maybe 2-3 Tds and 2-3 ints. When your 4-8.

Oh you mean like that 25 yard dart he threw to Zay for a TD yesterday in between 3 Dolphin defenders? Or the play last week to Foster where he got sandwiched and still threw it 40 yards on rhe money for a 75 yard TD?

 

People keep talking like every throw he makes from the pocket is into the ground or 25 yards over someone's head and its not. On the last drive alone yesterday he made 3 consecutive throws from the pocket that were right on the money.

 

I think people come up with the narrative they want instead of the one that is happening on the field. Could he be better in the pocket? Yeah...he misses some throws. But he also makea some throws that maybe only 2 or 3 other QBs in the league could make.

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You shouldn't have to play offense with those kind of limitations.  It was a great play design to get Foster wide open and the accurate throw simply has to be made.  It's why Allen was drafted in the top ten after the limited QB was traded away.   Hopefully next time he hits it because he's capable of executing the throw. 

I think this is where learning to take something off the ball can help. He didn't have to throw the ball on a frozen rope, he could have took a little something off it and make it an easier play. Even if Foster had to slow down or stop it would have been preferrable to missing a throw because you zinged it too fast and misses him by a few feet.

3 minutes ago, bobblehead said:

I don’t think that pass should have been attempted. If Foster catches that, that defender puts him in the hospital 

I think that was one when he gets more experience where he throws it so Foster has to stop along the sideline, picks up 30 yards and goes out of bounds instead of leading him potentially into a huge hit.

 

Experience and seeing the same coverage more often will help with this.

[Bill Murray]

53 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

I'll agree. His overall accuracy isn't as bad as I expected, although he still has the random throw that he throws right into the turf which is weird.

 

Allen is very good at throwing the ball on a rope. If he's given the opportunity to let it rip, and he's throwing right at his target with no defender in the way, he's quite good.

 

On the flip side, any time he has to throw with touch he struggles. He can't naturally put air under the ball and drop it in a spot where his receiver can catch it. His deep balls are often inaccurate and he misses some easy throws where he can't just let it rip. Hopefully he works on those this offseason. 

disagree.  his pass to demarco out of the backfield had both great touch and anticipation.  he is a rookie, but that pass shows its something he needs to improve consistency on, not its something he cant do

[BillsFan2313]

37 minutes ago, RobH063 said:

You know who had career completion percentages of 60.1%, 59.4% and 56.9% respectively? Jim Kelly, Dan Marino and John Elway. Three Gold Jackets with accuracy issues. It's not important if you have other skills that help your team win games. They all had those traits and so does Josh Allen. I'm not saying to fit him for a Gold Jacket but Judas Priest, he's 7 games into his career. Give the kid some slack!

 

Que the "different era" folks

[26CornerBlitz]

Now this throw was a beautiful pass with touch and accuracy.  Gotta hold onto this Zay!

 

 

[dezertbill]

Everyone harps on the accuracy thing.  They overlook all of the amazing physical tools he has.  Even if he never becomes the most accurate QB in the game, he still has enough tools to be a great one.

 

What the Bills bet on from day one was his work ethic, and his desire to be more accurate.  He may never pass for 70% in a season, but he is going to work his butt off to get there.  If he gets to 64%, he'll be a stud QB.  He's a rookie, and  young.  As time goes and he gets reps and is put in situations he will only grow. 

 

What he has on the field is incredible confidence.  Whether it's running with the ball, or scrambling to make a pass, his body language screams, "I got this".  We needed a QB like that to lead this team for the next 15 years.  The accuracy thing will improve.  But he has other things you just cant teach. 

[elroy16]

I swear, reading this thread you'd think other QB's in the league are completing 90% of their passes.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP, Allen is much more accurate than I thought he'd be. His misses aren't that far off. The Foster bomb, the Foster sideline thrown, and Jones towards the sideline were all throws you want him to make but they aren't easy throws. The crossing pattern by Zay where Allen threw high was probably his worst throw (that or the INT) and that one Zay could have had, but it wasn't easy. The throw to Zay where there was a holding penalty and Allen threw it too far, Zay wasn't running when Allen threw it. Like the missed TD, I think that was more of a miscommunication than anything. 

 

He missed one to Benjamin early that it looked like KB may have been able to come back and fight for the ball. For a guy that is supposed to be good at catching contested passes, I've been extremely underwhelmed by Benjamin.

 

Allen also threw it away 4 or 5 times. 

 

In terms of his short area accuracy or throws with touch, he had a short throw to Clay, the 2-point conversion, the touch pass to DiMarco, two quick throws to McKenzie, the comeback to KB, and a few others. I think his short area accuracy has gotten better and he was solid this game. I don't recall any misfires that prevented a catch or YAC by the receiver. 

 

 

 

In terms of scrambling, well you can't really blame him for it. The o-line is not good and this stat proves it. You can't really claim it's because he holds the ball too long as this stat takes that into account. 

 

 

 

 

Another thing that impressed me yesterday was how little he got hit while scrambling. Last game he lowered his should a time or two when he shoulda gone out of bounds or slide while yesterday he didn't really take any shots while scrambling. It was a noticeable improvement in one game.

 

 

Allen is leaps and bounds further along than I expected him to be at this point. If he was playing like this at the beginning of next year, I would have been extremely happy. His line isn't giving him much time and he isn't getting bailed out by his receivers. Unless it's a average difficulty catch or less, it's almost always dropped. Can you guys think of one spectacular catch by someone this year? The Foster bomb last week was probably the best so far. 

 

 

Yes, he's missing some throws (literally every QB does) and I'm sure he's missing some reads, but he is so much better right now that I was expecting. He's making throws down the field we haven't seen in years, buying time in the pocket, and getting better every week. Beane himself said they need to do a better job of adding talent around him. It's going to be fun watching him develop. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by elroy16

[GoBills808]

I think people have a difficult time separating a QB's 'accuracy' from his 'consistency'. And there's a big difference.

 

If a QB is inaccurate, he can't throw the ball where he wants to. Manuel was an example, he just could not hit the target. Sometimes it was caught, other times it wasn't, but the ball was never in the right place it needed to be. That's inaccuracy, and the Manuels and Tebows of the world are unable to overcome it, because it is a fundamental component of their ability to play quarterback, inherent to their game from the way they release the ball to the way they read the defense and decide to target a particular spot on the field. It IS a fatal quarterbacking flaw.

 

But inconsistency is different. Allen suffers from inconsistency, which is the inability to put the ball where you want it EVERY SINGLE TIME, and often at a rate less consistent than his peers. Allen can and has thrown perfectly placed balls, on the move and from the pocket and going backwards and forwards and short and long etc..., he just hasn't been doing it regularly enough. Inconsistency is primarily a function of QB 'mechanics', which are essentially correctable physical traits/habits/behaviors that make consistent delivery of the football very difficult. When everything works and he trusts his read and remembers his coaching, he delivers a good accurate throw. When he isn't able to overcome his poor habits, he's inconsistent in his delivery.

[PolishPrince]

3 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

He throws 20 yard rockets better than most in league already.  It's the shorter dump offs with touch he struggles with.  

Even this is overblown... how about the throw to DiMarco? The 5 yard out route to Zay in the fourth? The screen to McCoy in the 4th? His short throws are fine, just randomly like 1-2 a game yes he rushes his feet and misses one. But all those throws I mentioned above were short under neath throws and they were put on the money with YAC

3 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

I do not look at accuracy as a duality--you either are or you are not accurate.  I see it as a spectrum.  Allen is by no means the most accurate quarterback.  But coming into the year, based on the scouting reports and every thing I had heard, I had expected him to be grossly inaccurate.  I do not think that has been the case.  He misses alot of throws; Zay in the endzone, Clay in the endzone , the interception.  But aside from those, he made numerous intermediate throws that were deadly accurate.  That throw to Zay at the end of the game that Zay dropped was a dime.  

 

The big thing is that I think his completion percentage is a bit misleading.  For whatever reason, probably because he has not developed his reads, Allen doesn't take the check down often.  Those check down throws really inflate completion percentages, especially for rookies.  Almost all of Allen's throws are over ten yards in the air.  Those lower percentage intermediate throws will always drive a completion percentage down.  

 

Point is this, I am happy with Allen's accuracy.  It is better than I expected, and I am hoping he will improve.  I am much more excited about Allen now than I was when we first drafted him.  

Fixed your mistake above.

But I agree, I of course didnt watch him in college and I didnt want another project waiting 3 years to see if they were worth a damn. I wanted the NFL ready QB for once. I am glad I was wrong, I am in love with Josh.

To touch on the "develop reads for why he doesnt check down" portion of your post. I dont think its his inability to see the check down. I dont remember where I heard it, hell maybe it was just a dream. But I believe he was interviewed after a college game where he made a crazy TD throw where a guy was open for a first down underneath. I think the interviewer said something like "Why did you even try to make that throw?" Allen responds "Well like Brett Favre always said: 'Touchdowns first.' " So I think this is going to be the one love/hate thing with Josh people will have as long as he has legs to make plays, and routes downfield.... I think the check down option to him is like an absolute emergency play. He is the kind of guy who would rather try a difficult 15 yard throw than a 2 yard gimme. Hell we have had a lot of "Captain Checkdowns" here in the past, so we should be happy with this - right?

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

30 minutes ago, PolishPrince said:

Even this is overblown... how about the throw to DiMarco? The 5 yard out route to Zay in the fourth? The screen to McCoy in the 4th? His short throws are fine, just randomly like 1-2 a game yes he rushes his feet and misses one. But all those throws I mentioned above were short under neath throws and they were put on the money with YAC

Fixed your mistake above.

But I agree, I of course didnt watch him in college and I didnt want another project waiting 3 years to see if they were worth a damn. I wanted the NFL ready QB for once. I am glad I was wrong, I am in love with Josh.

To touch on the "develop reads for why he doesnt check down" portion of your post. I dont think its his inability to see the check down. I dont remember where I heard it, hell maybe it was just a dream. But I believe he was interviewed after a college game where he made a crazy TD throw where a guy was open for a first down underneath. I think the interviewer said something like "Why did you even try to make that throw?" Allen responds "Well like Brett Favre always said: 'Touchdowns first.' " So I think this is going to be the one love/hate thing with Josh people will have as long as he has legs to make plays, and routes downfield.... I think the check down option to him is like an absolute emergency play. He is the kind of guy who would rather try a difficult 15 yard throw than a 2 yard gimme. Hell we have had a lot of "Captain Checkdowns" here in the past, so we should be happy with this - right?

 

I agree on the Clay thing, but I didn't want this thread to dissolve into an Allen v. Clay debate.  

[thebandit27]

Some of these opinions are quite interesting to read...especially thinking back to conversations on this board in February and March.

[ctk232]

5 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

I do not look at accuracy as a duality--you either are or you are not accurate.  I see it as a spectrum.  Allen is by no means the most accurate quarterback.  But coming into the year, based on the scouting reports and every thing I had heard, I had expected him to be grossly inaccurate.  I do not think that has been the case.  He misses alot of throws; Zay in the endzone, Clay in the endzone, the interception.  But aside from those, he made numerous intermediate throws that were deadly accurate.  That throw to Zay at the end of the game that Zay dropped was a dime.  

 

The big thing is that I think his completion percentage is a bit misleading.  For whatever reason, probably because he has not developed his reads, Allen doesn't take the check down often.  Those check down throws really inflate completion percentages, especially for rookies.  Almost all of Allen's throws are over ten yards in the air.  Those lower percentage intermediate throws will always drive a completion percentage down.  

 

Point is this, I am happy with Allen's accuracy.  It is better than I expected, and I am hoping he will improve.  I am much more excited about Allen now than I was when we first drafted him.  

Good points - the one thing I realized I noticed more yesterday than in his previous games was the number of "waffle" throws he had that weren't forced by pressure. It's only an eye test, but I noticed there were throws where he would waffle and either short the pass or miss inaccurately. Some of these came on the run, but a good number were either from a set position following a scramble, or even just moving about the pocket and throwing from a set position (some times with pressure looming or within reach).

 

The reason I mention it is I recall Daboll and the coaches saying that one of the things they were working on with Allen was his finesse as his full cannon isn't needed all the time. What I wonder is if this is Allen attempting to over-correct or attempt a more finessed throw, resulting in a more waffled pass. In all honesty, I can't tell if what I saw yesterday was just me, a result of him attempting to correct what the coaches identified. Either way the inconsistencies with sprial throws when not pressured seemed odd to me, and certainly contributory to his accuracy. Especially on certain throws like with Zay in the back of the endzone throwing behind him - took potential points off the board there.

 

I don't think this deserves a thread, but did anyone else notice this as well and have similar/different takes?

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

The blueprint is there. For whatever reason teams just aren't utilizing it.

 

Eventually people are going to figure out to stop a player like Allen, you need to rush 3 with a Spy, and drop the other 7 guys into zone coverage so they can keep their eyes on him in case he tries to run. 

 

Same as Tyrod. Make him be a quarterback, and eliminate his ability to escape the pocket, roll to his right and make big plays down the field. 

 

He's such an amazing runner that might now happen, but that's what I'd be doing if I was an opposing DC. Forget trying to sack him, just keep him in the pocket and make him beat you with his arm. 

 

He's the same size as Cam Newton, and after a while even he started getting banged up from the hits. Broken ribs, concussions, etc. 

 

You can't run as a QB as much as Newton did early in his career and Allen is now and expect to stay healthy. 

 

Except they are already doing this against Allen and it’s not working.  Dolphins had a spy all game on Allen, and it was mostly Kiko who has speed himself and Allen still made them pay dearly.  What you dont understand is that ever since the Vikings game, teams have been using spies frequently on Allen and are all trying to contain him as a runner.

 

Dolphin coaches and players all spoke about how dangerous he is as a runner before and after the game.  

[kota]

It's pretty obvious that he has gotten better with touch passes.  Go watch him in preseason where all he did was gun it.

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, kota said:

It's pretty obvious that he has gotten better with touch passes.  Go watch him in preseason where all he did was gun it.

 

Agreed.  Here is what so many people miss...the quick and significant improvements this kid makes.  When the off season began, I had him last in the top 5 of the QBs and didn’t want him.  But what blew me away and won me over was how much this kid really improved in a short window working on the fundamentals during the draft process.  He went right to #2 behind Baker for me on draft night.

 

Then to see the strides he made quickly early season from preseason and now how much better he got since being injured and it’s stunning how fast this kid takes leaps forward.  

 

I for one am stoked to see what he can do with an entire offseason being undisputed starter and getting all the reps to go along with more talent around him.  

Edited December 3, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Some of these opinions are quite interesting to read...especially thinking back to conversations on this board in February and March.

 

Credit to you for being the first scout (amateur or otherwise) on this board to say he could be something. He's certainly changed my mind. He could still fall off but I'm feeling way more confident than I would have ever thought possible. I mean I always thought the completion percentage thing was overblown but I did have concerns about his accuracy.

[Bangarang]

5 hours ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

Que the "different era" folks

 

Ryan Tannehill has a higher career completion percentage and QB rating than Jimbo. 

 

Comparing stats of modern day QBs to those of 20-30 years ago is silly.

[mjt328]

6 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

The blueprint is there. For whatever reason teams just aren't utilizing it.

 

Eventually people are going to figure out to stop a player like Allen, you need to rush 3 with a Spy, and drop the other 7 guys into zone coverage so they can keep their eyes on him in case he tries to run. 

 

Same as Tyrod. Make him be a quarterback, and eliminate his ability to escape the pocket, roll to his right and make big plays down the field. 

 

He's such an amazing runner that might now happen, but that's what I'd be doing if I was an opposing DC. Forget trying to sack him, just keep him in the pocket and make him beat you with his arm. 

 

 

I agree that if Allen doesn't become a good passer, then teams will be able to stop him with a similar defense as what you said above.  Keep him in the pocket and force him to make plays with his arm.

 

But I think Allen's critics (and there are many on this board) are just looking at his crazy rushing numbers, and are ignoring the improvements we are seeing in his passing.  For anyone paying attention, the growth is pretty obvious to see.  He's making better reads, and doing it quicker than what he was doing back in September/October. 

 

When he was drafted, I considered him WAY behind Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen in terms of throwing mechanics, accuracy and pocket presence.  He was basically a raw lump of clay with tons of athletic potential.  Seven months later, and I think he's already pretty much caught-up to those guys. 

 

Obviously Allen has a long-ways to go.  But we are seeing progression, which isn't something that could ever be said about our last 1st Round QBs.  The EJ Manuel we saw in Week 1-2 of his 2013 rookie season was probably the best he ever played in the NFL.  It took JP Losman until the middle of his third season before he finally showed a glimpse of being adequate, but was all downhill from that point.

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

WR's need to be able to catch rockets from him .....just like they had to with John Elway

[Max Fischer]

8 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

I do not look at accuracy as a duality--you either are or you are not accurate.  I see it as a spectrum.  Allen is by no means the most accurate quarterback.  But coming into the year, based on the scouting reports and every thing I had heard, I had expected him to be grossly inaccurate.  I do not think that has been the case.  He misses alot of throws; Zay in the endzone, Clay in the endzone, the interception.  But aside from those, he made numerous intermediate throws that were deadly accurate.  That throw to Zay at the end of the game that Zay dropped was a dime.  

 

The big thing is that I think his completion percentage is a bit misleading.  For whatever reason, probably because he has not developed his reads, Allen doesn't take the check down often.  Those check down throws really inflate completion percentages, especially for rookies.  Almost all of Allen's throws are over ten yards in the air.  Those lower percentage intermediate throws will always drive a completion percentage down.  

 

Point is this, I am happy with Allen's accuracy.  It is better than I expected, and I am hoping he will improve.  I am much more excited about Allen now than I was when we first drafted him.  

 

Agree except for the examples.  Missed Zay throw was a miscommunication, not an accuracy issue.  I will fight anyone who says the Clay throw was inaccurate. That was a thing of beauty. Under the same circumstances, maybe Aaron Rodgers in his prime makes that throw but I can't think of anyone else would be capable.  

 

The inception was not a good read/throw but I do wonder about McDermott's comment that alluded to the lack of crispness on KB's route. 

 

Allen has a lot to work out but I'm even encouraged by his touch passes (Zay on the WR screen for 2 points, and the floater to DiMarco)

[BillsFan2313]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

 

Ryan Tannehill has a higher career completion percentage and QB rating than Jimbo. 

 

Comparing stats of modern day QBs to those of 20-30 years ago is silly.

 

 

 

Yesssss

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

10 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

To build on your point, I think it's a good thing that Allen doesn't go to his check down receiver that much.  I once heard a coach say that you know a rookie QB or experienced is rattled and may be on his way to being a bust when he throws the check down pass to often.  IMO the Bills don't have the talent to fully exploit the check down yet:

 

*  Shady could be that guy but even he's lost a step and doesn't give us the check down threat that say an Alvin Kamara/Todd Gurly/Christian McCaffrey does.  And unlike most NFL teams we don't have anyone at TE that could remotely be considered a check down threat. 

 

*  For the check down pass to work properly you need to have a viable deep ball threat.  It's only been in the last few weeks that the Bills offense put enough speed on the field at receiver to provide that threat.  It also takes a QB willing AND able to throw the ball 60 yards downfield.  Allen has both of these attributes and while he just missed the 70 yard bomb to Forster don't think for a minute the Jet's safety's won't be studying that play in the film room this week. 

 

*  But if fans want to see 70% completion percentages they should hope Allen takes a page out of Anderson's play book.  I mean the guy was hitting his check down passes at 90%!  Think about all those 3rd and 12 plays where he threw the perfect 8 yard completion! 

 

Sound like anyone we know around here??