Charles Clay- the most useless player ever

[row_33]

Just now, hemma said:

I think the game has beaten him down physically so that he couldn't perform and after today, he may start thinking like Vontae.

He might be done.

 

Next time.... don’t drop it....

 

please

[Kelly the Dog]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

Mental or physical error or both?

 

 

Depends. African or European?

[Warcodered]

Pretty poor timing for his drop, earlier in the game and sure he'd still be getting some crap but nothing compared to the avalanche of ***** he's got coming his way.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Warcodered

[dave mcbride]

4 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It's wrong IMO to say a pass that was 55 yards in the air, running the opposite way, all the way across the field, AFTER running 30-40 yards to avoid the rush that hits the receiver in two hands and would have been a pretty easy catch if that receiver didnt trip himself, is 'highly inaccurate." 

We disagree strongly about this. But you blamed Watkins on a bad pass by Taylor, so we’re on different sides with regard to this basic issue. You blame receivers on bad but borderline catchable passes (which go incomplete ALL of the time if you actually watch other NFL teams), and I think it’s the QB’s job to be at least moderately accurate. I liked Allen’s game today, but his final throw today was very off target. He was a top ten pick and we should expect him to deliver on that pass. He didn’t today, but I expect him to do so in the future. He had a lot of good throws today, but consistency on the accuracy front is a real issue at present.

Edited December 3, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

We disagree strongly about this. But you blamed Watkins on a bad pass by Taylor, so we’re on different sides with regard to this basic issue.

You seem to be the only person out of about 50 who have commented on it to take your position so I feel comfortable in mine.

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

You seem to be the only person out of about 50 who have commented on it to take your position so I feel comfortable in mine.

I honestly don’t care a whit if my opinion isn’t popular on this message board, and popular support for your position among fans here who have their pitchforks out ain’t what I call “empirical evidence.” See my expanded reply above. I also wonder if people here actually watch other teams with any degree of closeness.

Edited December 3, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I honestly don’t care a whit if my opinion isn’t popular on this message board, and popular support for your position among fans here who have their pithforks out ain’t what I call “empirical evidence.” See my expanded reply above.

I did. I think you're ignoring the difficulty of the pass. He threw it rolling left after scrambling wildly across his body 55 yards in the air. Clay flat out said he stumbled, which is his fault. There was no one near him. He didn't have to change direction he was already coming back for the ball before he stumbled. He also had it right in his hands, two hands, and he dropped it. A lunging catch like that for an NFL player with no one near him is not an extremely hard catch. He said he flat dropped it.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Clay, KB and Croom should all be released next year. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

14 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I did. I think you're ignoring the difficulty of the pass. He threw it rolling left after scrambling wildly across his body 55 yards in the air. Clay flat out said he stumbled, which is his fault. There was no one near him. He didn't have to change direction he was already coming back for the ball before he stumbled. He also had it right in his hands, two hands, and he dropped it. A lunging catch like that for an NFL player with no one near him is not an extremely hard catch. He said he flat dropped it.

Was an unfortunate situation thatl the Bill's put themselves into, the team wont good enough to recover, the drop by clay only being one play.  Not excusing clay or Allen.....but could have been a totally different outcome if someone had held on to the pass

[billsredneck1]

i can't believe it! he had both hands on the ball and dropped it. what a loser!   signed...kb

[Troll Toll]

I kind of feel for Clay on that pass. I’m not blaming Allen at all, but from Clay’s end I know what it’s like to stand on the other end of a strong armed launch and having a tough time judging where it will come down. 

 

If you’ve ever been there, sometimes the passes from those really strong armed QBs seem like they are going to drop short like Allen’s did, but instead they end up just going and going and wind up over your head. I don’t know if it is just that the wind gets behind it from time to time, but knowing about that possibility can make you hesitant to move up for the ball right away. That won’t happen with 90% of QBs in the NFL because their arm isn’t strong enough, but Allen’s cannon is one you have to be mindful of.

[Spiderweb]

16 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

there was a time when Clay was the extent of our passing game.    sure he was wide open on that last throw, but that ball wasnt close to an easy catch,  and remember,  hes a tight end.

 

that bein said,  i think his time as a Bill is over.   u dont pay a guy his salary for the output hes had the last coupla years.  age and injuries are a bad mix.

Poor excuses. Clay should have moved quicker to the ball, and even as Lifton said he should have come out to the 5 yard line if necessary to catch that ball. A few years ago, Clay was fair, last year he was poor, this year he just sucks. He has always had a penchant for dropping possible TDs and for coming up little in big moments. I have seen all I ever want to see from him.

 

Also, even more so, KB should never take another snap, period. He is a total waste, cut him now. He is a poster child for addition by subtraction.

[dave mcbride]

8 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I did. I think you're ignoring the difficulty of the pass. He threw it rolling left after scrambling wildly across his body 55 yards in the air. Clay flat out said he stumbled, which is his fault. There was no one near him. He didn't have to change direction he was already coming back for the ball before he stumbled. He also had it right in his hands, two hands, and he dropped it. A lunging catch like that for an NFL player with no one near him is not an extremely hard catch. He said he flat dropped it.

Again, he is not going to throw the qb under the bus. Again, it was an impressive play in many ways and Allen played a pretty good game. But if you're going to focus on drops, focus on the play before (and yes, I know the pitchforks aren't out for zay because he has been playing well). Jones was interfered with, and yes, PI should have been called, but good receivers hold onto perfect throws like that all the time even while being mildly interfered with (that is, it was PI but hardly a mugging). It was a perfect back-shoulder throw right in his breadbasket, and he basically failed to keep it in. Moderately tough play, yes, because of the interference (and hence I'll give him a pass on it), but a less tough catch than the wounded duck Clay had to field. But because the pitchforks are out for Clay, there is no mention of the previous--and equally important--play.

[Bookie Man]

Maybe Clay could be a decent #2 TE. Hard to tell, I feel like I haven't seem him play in a year. Not sure where his body's at. I would love to see this team score a legit TE in the draft.

[Spiderweb]

16 hours ago, popcornpam said:

 When your quarterback scrambles you’re supposed to move up towards the Quarterback It was only 11 yards it wasn’t the end of the game. Poor coaching. 

?

16 hours ago, Pete said:

That play was on Josh.  Put your pitchforks down.  He also missed a wide open Foster.  Growing pains. We finally have our QB!

Allen performed a near miracle just to get the ball away. Clay simply has to make a play on the ball. Slow to eeacte and even worse hands. That's on Clay for not making a play.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

3 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

I kind of feel for Clay on that pass. I’m not blaming Allen at all, but from Clay’s end I know what it’s like to stand on the other end of a strong armed launch and having a tough time judging where it will come down. 

 

If you’ve ever been there, sometimes the passes from those really strong armed QBs seem like they are going to drop short like Allen’s did, but instead they end up just going and going and wind up over your head. I don’t know if it is just that the wind gets behind it from time to time, but knowing about that possibility can make you hesitant to move up for the ball right away. That won’t happen with 90% of QBs in the NFL because their arm isn’t strong enough, but Allen’s cannon is one you have to be mindful of.

Unfortunately Clay is a professional and a veteran and he should have realized that a cross body, on the run throw is not going to have that much zip on it, even from Josh Allen. It was a bad play by him, but it's not grounds for removal (for me) even given his salary.

 

On another note, those that want to blow $90 million in FA, this is what happens seemingly more often than not. The player doesn't live up to the contract.

Edited December 3, 2018 by 4BillsintheBurgh

[All_Pro_Bills]

I've watched the final 4 plays several times. 

 

1st and 10 from the 29, Allen screen to McCoy for 4 yards, 2nd and 6 from the 25, false start, 2nd and 11 from the 30, Allen under pressure throws the ball away to the left sideline.  Blow to the helmet of the QB by #50 of Dolphins not called.  Should have been 1st and 10 from the 15 on a 15 yard PF.

 

3rd and 11. Allen pass to Z. Jones to left sideline to the Miami 6 ruled complete.  Reviewed and over turned  But should have been defensive PI at the 6 for first and goal.  You can argue the non-call but the defender has his arms wrapped around the receivers chest prior to the ball arriving.  That looks like PI not playing the ball. 

 

4th and 11 Allen scrambles for about 12 seconds and throws the ball across his body to the right while running left/parallel.  When he releases the ball Clay is all alone 6 yards deep in the end zone as Miami's defenders had all drifted to the left side.  In fact the Bills had 3 receivers in the end zone at that point when they needed 11 yards, not 30.  None of them came back to the QB on the scramble.  McCoy did follow and run his pattern to the left side but was covered.  When the ball was released Clay ran out of the end zone but stumbled and missed the catch.

 

Should Clay have caught that?  I think so but the ref's missed two calls, it was a tough pass across the field and the receivers should have worked their way back out of the end zone when the play broke down and Allen started to scramble.  My point is this, I do blame Clay for dropping that pass, which a good receiver should come up with, but there were a host of other circumstances that could have changed the outcome.  Another, maybe discussed elsewhere how the Bills defense folded right after the Bills took the 17-14 lead.      

[2003Contenders]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I've watched the final 4 plays several times. 

 

1st and 10 from the 29, Allen screen to McCoy for 4 yards, 2nd and 6 from the 25, false start, 2nd and 11 from the 30, Allen under pressure throws the ball away to the left sideline.  Blow to the helmet of the QB by #50 of Dolphins not called.  Should have been 1st and 10 from the 15 on a 15 yard PF. 

 

3rd and 11. Allen pass to Z. Jones to left sideline to the Miami 6 ruled complete.  Reviewed and over turned  But should have been defensive PI at the 6 for first and goal.  You can argue the non-call but the defender has his arms wrapped around the receivers chest prior to the ball arriving.  That looks like PI not playing the ball. 

 

4th and 11 Allen scrambles for about 12 seconds and throws the ball across his body to the right while running left/parallel.  When he releases the ball Clay is all alone 6 yards deep in the end zone as Miami's defenders had all drifted to the left side.  In fact the Bills had 3 receivers in the end zone at that point when they needed 11 yards, not 30.  None of them came back to the QB on the scramble.  McCoy did follow and run his pattern to the left side but was covered.  When the ball was released Clay ran out of the end zone but stumbled and missed the catch. 

 

Should Clay have caught that?  I think so but the ref's missed two calls, it was a tough pass across the field and the receivers should have worked their way back out of the end zone when the play broke down and Allen started to scramble.  My point is this, I do blame Clay for dropping that pass, which a good receiver should come up with, but there were a host of other circumstances that could have changed the outcome.  Another, maybe discussed elsewhere how the Bills defense folded right after the Bills took the 17-14 lead.      

 

Excellent and fair review.

 

I will say in Clay's defense that he was not entirely useless yesterday either. He actually did a solid job blocking most of the game -- and made a couple of key outside blocks on 1st down runs.

[Kelly the Dog]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Again, he is not going to throw the qb under the bus. Again, it was an impressive play in many ways and Allen played a pretty good game. But if you're going to focus on drops, focus on the play before (and yes, I know the pitchforks aren't out for zay because he has been playing well). Jones was interfered with, and yes, PI should have been called, but good receivers hold onto perfect throws like that all the time even while being mildly interfered with (that is, it was PI but hardly a mugging). It was a perfect back-shoulder throw right in his breadbasket, and he basically failed to keep it in. Moderately tough play, yes, because of the interference (and hence I'll give him a pass on it), but a less tough catch than the wounded duck Clay had to field. But because the pitchforks are out for Clay, there is no mention of the previous--and equally important--play.

I agree about Zay. When I mentioned it was a tough catch I was only referring to how he ended up dropping it. He could have made an easier play on the ball. He definitely was interfered with. The officials made the right call on the drop but wrong call on the PI which of course they cannot consider. But all around, the Clay catch was a lot easier than Zay’s. 

[Punching Bag]

20 hours ago, NewEra said:

Show your love for Charles ******* Clay.  You sir, are a bum.  Thanks for one game vs the dolphins years ago.  

 

Quite a bit of exaggeration.  How about Bush who in all his runs for Bills got negative yardage?  of Billy Joe who as backup did not even look at plays inserted for the game?

 

As my debate teacher taught me: exaggeration is the first tool of those unprepared for battle of wits.

[Irv]

Cat Litter is made from Clay. 

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

21 hours ago, Amarillo Bills Fan said:

O'Leary would have made the catch

I totally agree and hated when they cut him. Clay has done absolutely nothing this year.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Quite a bit of exaggeration.  How about Bush who in all his runs for Bills got negative yardage?  of Billy Joe who as backup did not even look at plays inserted for the game?

 

As my debate teacher taught me: exaggeration is the first tool of those unprepared for battle of wits.

The guys that you mentioned had 1 year and very limited opportunity to make their presence felt.  Yes, they were both useless.

 

clay has been of the the highest paid players at his position for several seasons.  I havent missed a game since he’s been on the team and I can literally remember 1 game in which he’s played.  He had a chance to contribute 1 thing this season by making that catch.  He failed and has continued to be useless.

 

maybe I should changed the title to: Charles Clay: the most forgettable 9 million dollar a year player in league history.  No one will remember this guy for anything he did on the football field 

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

The guys that you mentioned had 1 year and very limited opportunity to make their presence felt.  Yes, they were both useless.

 

clay has been of the the highest paid players at his position for several seasons.  I havent missed a game since he’s been on the team and I can literally remember 1 game in which he’s played.  He had a chance to contribute 1 thing this season by making that catch.  He failed and has continued to be useless.

 

maybe I should changed the title to: Charles Clay: the most forgettable 9 million dollar a year player in league history.  No one will remember this guy for anything he did on the football field 

 

They got one year for that one year they were washed up in body (Bush) or mind (Billy Joe).

Agree completely with that and thought it was a mistake to sign him when they did especially with that contract.

 

The board has become like politics recently and to get attention extremely subjects are posted.  

Sometimes I think this board is becoming like TMZ Sports looking for hits.  Was not so bad before BBMB was shutdown and the lunatics let out onto the street.

[Joeziehmer]

McBeane let Nick O’Leary go after clutch plays.  Even though he beat out Clay it was experience over raw talent.  I guess clutch drops over keeping anyone close to clutch and having Kelvin who he wanted so badly to be tied around our salary cap neck as an anchor is worth it.  McDermott lacks the intellectualism, poise, and intelligence of Anthony Lynn, Frank Reich, and Tom Coughlin.  After watching him go off on Allen earlier this season and demand DaBoll slow down the rhythm passing practices it says a lot about how Allen’s development is being wasted if he had a Harbaugh it’s a different story.  After all staying loyal to Peterman with Beane wanting him gone says that McDermott isn’t staying for year three and Beane is looking at moving beyond him even if it means more moves behind his back and cutting or letting guys like Clay and Kelvin go.  

[Punching Bag]

2 minutes ago, Joeziehmer said:

 After all staying loyal to Peterman with Beane wanting him gone says that McDermott isn’t staying for year three and Beane is looking at moving beyond him even if it means more moves behind his back and cutting or letting guys like Clay and Kelvin go.  

 

Really? Beane, who was brought in by Coach McDermott,  is looking beyond McDermott?  And McDermott  isn’t staying for year three?

 

This is so far fetched I expected you to include aliens kidnapped some of our staff!

[Joeziehmer]

21 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Really? Beane, who was brought in by Coach McDermott,  is looking beyond McDermott?  And McDermott  isn’t staying for year three?

 

This is so far fetched I expected you to include aliens kidnapped some of our staff!

McDermott was going to stay loyal to Nate Peterman until he was either fired over it or Peterman got released.  The presser about having all confidence in the world as Beane was getting the paperwork ready to cut Nate kind of undermines McDermott in a good way.  If anything Beane realizes following Sean down the rabbit hole of letting O’Leary go after he beat out Clay as Nick did not fit his “process” means Beane is tired of Clappy the Repeater.  

Edited December 3, 2018 by Joeziehmer

[tcampbell104]

1 minute ago, Joeziehmer said:

McDermott was going to stay loyal to Nate Peterman until he was either fired over it or Peterman got released.  The presser about having all confidence in the world as Beane was getting the paperwork ready to cut Nate kind of undermines McDermott in a good way.  If anything Beane realizes following Sean down the rabbit hole of letting O’Leary he beat out Clay go to fit his process means Beane is tired of Clappy the Repeater.  

i think you are a troubled person

[Gray Beard]

I think people are giving Clay a little too much abuse.  He slipped.  Guys were slipping all day. 

He should have anticipated and come closer.  He should have judged the trajectory of the pass better.

Maybe the equipment manager should have given them longer cleats.

Maybe he didn’t want longer cleats because longer cleats would be harder on his bad knees.

I have thought for about two years that he was over rated.  I hope an upgrade is one of the higher priorities for next year.  

[Joeziehmer]

22 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Really? Beane, who was brought in by Coach McDermott,  is looking beyond McDermott?  And McDermott  isn’t staying for year three?

 

This is so far fetched I expected you to include aliens kidnapped some of our staff!

If it came down to saving his own skin or being tied to McDermott whose been blown out by those like Reich and Lynn of course Beane would work to save his own skin.  He’s not going into kaizen for seppuku of his own career with Sean.  

1 minute ago, Gray Beard said:

I think people are giving Clay a little too much abuse.  He slipped.  Guys were slipping all day. 

He should have anticipated and come closer.  He should have judged the trajectory of the pass better.

Maybe the equipment manager should have given them longer cleats.

Maybe he didn’t want longer cleats because longer cleats would be harder on his bad knees.

I have thought for about two years that he was over rated.  I hope an upgrade is one of the higher priorities for next year.  

We had an upgrade in Nick O’Leary but he’s in Miami.  You know the process which is basically like seppuku for fans.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

31 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Really? Beane, who was brought in by Coach McDermott,  is looking beyond McDermott?  And McDermott  isn’t staying for year three?

 

This is so far fetched I expected you to include aliens kidnapped some of our staff!

 

 

...and it's only Monday..........just a couple of quick observations IMO....

 

1. McBeane & McDermott are assuredly here through 2019. With ten picks and FA $$$, it can be their defining moment. Realistically, some of those fruits may not be evident until 2020. If we are in the same boat in 2019 time wise as we are now, it may raise some questions of concern, but I think same time frame in 2020 is probably the better judging point.

 

2. Clay is gone. Tender to drive up Fins cap space backfired, expecting them to match. So we move on in 2019. Hardly was a picture of health then and is not dependable.

 

3. Benjabum is gone. Let him go chase OBJ type money that his thinks he should get. Sad part is some GM may take the bait. Cue up the "just needs a change of scenery" tape.

 

...so stay tuned...........

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...and it's only Monday..........just a couple of quick observations IMO....

 

1. McBeane & McDermott are assuredly here through 2019. With ten picks and FA $$$, it can be their defining moment. Realistically, some of those fruits may not be evident until 2020. If we are in the same boat in 2019 time wise as we are now, it may raise some questions of concern, but I think same time frame in 2020 is probably the better judging point.

 

2. Clay is gone. Tender to drive up Fins cap space backfired, expecting them to match. So we move on in 2019. Hardly was a picture of health then and is not dependable.

 

3. Benjabum is gone. Let him go chase OBJ type money that his thinks he should get. Sad part is some GM may take the bait. Cue up the "just needs a change of scenery" tape.

 

...so stay tuned...........

 

 

Benjamin is not getting a big deal. Period.

 

He's not talented enough for teams to overlook his shortcomings the way they do others who constantly get paid despite little contribution.

 

He's looking at a one year deal in the 5 mil range.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

Benjamin is not getting a big deal. Period.

 

He's not talented enough for teams to overlook his shortcomings the way they do others who constantly get paid despite little contribution.

 

He's looking at a one year deal in the 5 mil range.

HINT: major, MAJOR sarcasm.......guy isn't worth an Earl Scheib paint job......may need to Google that......

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

HINT: major, MAJOR sarcasm.......guy isn't worth an Earl Scheib paint job......may need to Google that......

This review sums up my feelings on KB;

 

Shop has had my vehicle for almost two months. Since Sept 19th 2016. They have very bad communication. I was told several times of the completion date(s) of my vehicle, without them keeping their word. I was then asked to submit the check from my insurance company to them and that the car was ready, Friday Nov 11th and the vehicle was still not complete upon me arriving. One unkept word after another. The body shop manager (Arti) and his righthand man (Jack) are both very misleading. They also held my vehicle due to their communication and payment errors with the insurance company, State Farm. I pay my insurance, every month with a couple of different policies. It is not my responsibilty to ensure the insurance company pays the body shop. Therefore, the body shop shouldnt punish me by holding my vehicle until payment clears with a credible insurance company. The insurance company even offered to submit immediate documentation of payment confirmation to Earl Scheib when we spoke to Jack. Jack claimed he would call the insurance company back i  agreement so that my car could be released. I also personally called Arti to confirm. I have yet to get my vehicle out. This is a terrible body shop, abd it is further more some of the worse custoner service ive ever received from any business in general. BY ALL COSTS, establish business with another body shop before you do with Earl Scheib. They are the crapiest, and in my opinions, slick oil liars at the least. Id rather walk the extra mile for my business in the future. It would be worth it.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

This review sums up my feelings on KB;

 

Shop has had my vehicle for almost two months. Since Sept 19th 2016. They have very bad communication. I was told several times of the completion date(s) of my vehicle, without them keeping their word. I was then asked to submit the check from my insurance company to them and that the car was ready, Friday Nov 11th and the vehicle was still not complete upon me arriving. One unkept word after another. The body shop manager (Arti) and his righthand man (Jack) are both very misleading. They also held my vehicle due to their communication and payment errors with the insurance company, State Farm. I pay my insurance, every month with a couple of different policies. It is not my responsibilty to ensure the insurance company pays the body shop. Therefore, the body shop shouldnt punish me by holding my vehicle until payment clears with a credible insurance company. The insurance company even offered to submit immediate documentation of payment confirmation to Earl Scheib when we spoke to Jack. Jack claimed he would call the insurance company back i  agreement so that my car could be released. I also personally called Arti to confirm. I have yet to get my vehicle out. This is a terrible body shop, abd it is further more some of the worse custoner service ive ever received from any business in general. BY ALL COSTS, establish business with another body shop before you do with Earl Scheib. They are the crapiest, and in my opinions, slick oil liars at the least. Id rather walk the extra mile for my business in the future. It would be worth it.

 

...Cliff Notes version sarcasm...Earl Scheib paint job a bazillion years ago was $29.95............Benjabum ain't worth THAT......or a can of Rustoleum IMO.........

Edited December 4, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[T master]

I wish they would have kept O'leary !!

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14145/charles-clay

[Gray Beard]

22 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

HINT: major, MAJOR sarcasm.......guy isn't worth an Earl Scheib paint job......may need to Google that......

When my brother got married in 1977 my father got an Earl Scheib paint job on our old station wagon so that it would look good when we showed up for the wedding.  It worked out pretty well since he didn’t care that the paint job would only look good for a couple weeks.  

[GG]

13 hours ago, T master said:

I wish they would have kept O'leary !!

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14145/charles-clay

 

O'Leary NFL ability is encapsulated in one play.  He had a clear chance to put the game away with his second down catch and a run for the first down, and he was stopped 1 yard short.

 

In any event, the All-22 is damning to Clay's occasional brain farts during games.  He's seen hugging the endline for the majority of Allen's mad scramble and then slips in coming back to the ball.