Bills QB Josh Allen is changing skeptical minds. ---- Brady Quinn apparently prefers potential over results

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, eball said:

 

Beware the preemptive "QBR is a joke" responses...but that said, it is the one "ranking" that at least tries to incorporate a QB's entire game and not just his passing prowess.  There's no question Josh needs to improve in that area, and I think he will with a better OL and surrounding cast of skill players.  It is indisputable, however, that over the last three games Allen has almost singlehandedly given the Bills a chance to win, and that's what being a "total" QB is all about.

It’s an interesting idea for a star but he is flawed.  Qbs who run a lot aren’t going to last long in this league.  Regular qb rating is also a flawed stat as well.

 

imo, Allen is basically the guy I thought he was and had ranked with Lamar Jackson (he is much faster than I ever imagine though).  All the physical tools but his passing needs some major work.  Hopefully upgrades on offense will aid in his development.  I still have my doubts on the “all the tools but struggles with accuracy” qbs but I hope I’m wrong and he takes a major step next year.

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, eball said:

 

Beware the preemptive "QBR is a joke" responses...but that said, it is the one "ranking" that at least tries to incorporate a QB's entire game and not just his passing prowess.  There's no question Josh needs to improve in that area, and I think he will with a better OL and surrounding cast of skill players.  It is indisputable, however, that over the last three games Allen has almost singlehandedly given the Bills a chance to win, and that's what being a "total" QB is all about.

 

Never understood the hatred for QBR...its light years better and more accurate than the old QB Rating.  No rating is ever going to be perfect, because its impossible for stats to tell the whole story.  But its still by far the most useful and effective of the two ratings to gauge the effectiveness of a player.

 

My person theory is that the hatred on this board for QBR is rooted in Tyrod Taylor. QBR was always higher for Tyrod than QB Rating as it factored in the value and plays he made with his legs too.  So people who hated Tyrod always used to slam QBR because they hated anything that suggested Tyrod had any value.  

 

Reality is...QBR is substantially more useful in seeing how a QB is really affecting the game overall.  Its so much more accurate than QB Rating in determining the impact a QB is making out there week to week.  

Edited December 12, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[BillsVet]

If Allen keeps taking as many hits as he is there won't be any comparisons to make because he'll wind up on IR. 

 

For fantasy types, sure running the ball and scoring is nice.  It was fun to watch when Mike Vick did it too back in 2002 or so. Or Vince Young.  None of those guys got teams deep into the playoffs consistently.   

 

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

11 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

If Allen keeps taking as many hits as he is there won't be any comparisons to make because he'll wind up on IR. 

 

For fantasy types, sure running the ball and scoring is nice.  It was fun to watch when Mike Vick did it too back in 2002 or so. Or Vince Young.  None of those guys got teams deep into the playoffs consistently.   

 

 

 

If you listened to Allen's press conference; he's not looking to run.  Just a by product of him going through his progressions, no one open (his perception), and his internal clock and defensive rush coming to.  He said if he runs for 100 or runs for 2, he just wants to win.  People want him to quit running, but why?  If that is what the defense gives him, what is wrong with a 25 yard scamper and slide?  Baffles me when you have a QB who can create more time and space with his legs if needed and people want him to stop.  As his passing improves, man talking about one of the greatest dual threat QBs to come around.  Some of his hardest hits came on sacks where three players absolutely crushed him.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

If you listened to Allen's press conference; he's not looking to run.  Just a by product of him going through his progressions, no one open (his perception), and his internal clock and defensive rush coming to.  He said if he runs for 100 or runs for 2, he just wants to win.  People want him to quit running, but why?  If that is what the defense gives him, what is wrong with a 25 yard scamper and slide?  Baffles me when you have a QB who can create more time and space with his legs if needed and people want him to stop.  As his passing improves, man talking about one of the greatest dual threat QBs to come around.  Some of his hardest hits came on sacks where three players absolutely crushed him.

 

You're absolutely correct: he's taken far worse hits IN THE POCKET.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Joe in Winslow

[John from Riverside]

We want him to stay in the pocket and throw

 

He takes bad hits every time he does

 

That has to change

[LSHMEAB]

I'm getting a little tired of the JA carried the offense narrative.

 

The best QB'd game we've had all season was when Barkley gave others a chance to make plays. Allen needs to do that more often. Hero ball doesn't play in the NFL.

17 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

We want him to stay in the pocket and throw

 

He takes bad hits every time he does

 

That has to change

Does he ever even stay in the pocket, step up, and deliver the ball? I haven't seen it. He's got to stop bailing so early. I get that the line is subpar, but he tends to feel pressure that doesn't even exist. There's a good chance that with a better line will come confidence, but JA needs to do his part as well.

Edited December 12, 2018 by LSHMEAB

[The_Dude]

I don't know if it's time to "trust" Josh Allen....but it is time to invest in players around him. 

I'm frustrated that he has such crap around him. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

47 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'm getting a little tired of the JA carried the offense narrative.

 

The best QB'd game we've had all season was when Barkley gave others a chance to make plays. Allen needs to do that more often. Hero ball doesn't play in the NFL.

Does he ever even stay in the pocket, step up, and deliver the ball? I haven't seen it. He's got to stop bailing so early. I get that the line is subpar, but he tends to feel pressure that doesn't even exist. There's a good chance that with a better line will come confidence, but JA needs to do his part as well.

 

Pretty sure nobody cares what you're tired of...are you special or something?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

We want him to stay in the pocket and throw

 

He takes bad hits every time he does

 

That has to change

Of course we do.  

 

But when he has a 5 foot hole in front of him I won’t mind as long as he avoids the hit

Edited December 12, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Brady Quinn apparently prefers potential over results

 

 

Former Browns quarterback turned analyst would take Buffalo’s Josh Allen over Baker Mayfield if he were starting a team.

 

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/platform/amp/2018/12/12/18138343/cleveland-browns-quinn-mayfield-potential-results

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'm getting a little tired of the JA carried the offense narrative.

 

The best QB'd game we've had all season was when Barkley gave others a chance to make plays. Allen needs to do that more often. Hero ball doesn't play in the NFL.

Does he ever even stay in the pocket, step up, and deliver the ball? I haven't seen it. He's got to stop bailing so early. I get that the line is subpar, but he tends to feel pressure that doesn't even exist. There's a good chance that with a better line will come confidence, but JA needs to do his part as well.

You haven't seen him stay in the pocket and deliver the ball because you don't want to see it.  For some odd reason it appears you do not want the Bills QB to be successful.

[Boca BIlls]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'm getting a little tired of the JA carried the offense narrative.

 

The best QB'd game we've had all season was when Barkley gave others a chance to make plays. Allen needs to do that more often. Hero ball doesn't play in the NFL.

Does he ever even stay in the pocket, step up, and deliver the ball? I haven't seen it. He's got to stop bailing so early. I get that the line is subpar, but he tends to feel pressure that doesn't even exist. There's a good chance that with a better line will come confidence, but JA needs to do his part as well.

You have never seen him stay in the pocket and deliver the ball? Then stop talking in this thread since you never watched him play.

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

You haven't seen him stay in the pocket and deliver the ball because you don't want to see it.  For some odd reason it appears you do not want the Bills QB to be successful.

I realized many years ago that I could not control Bills games telepathically. God knows I tried.

 

I visit this message board to objectively analyze the team; not to cheerlead.

[PolishPrince]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'm getting a little tired of the JA carried the offense narrative.

 

The best QB'd game we've had all season was when Barkley gave others a chance to make plays. Allen needs to do that more often. Hero ball doesn't play in the NFL.

Does he ever even stay in the pocket, step up, and deliver the ball? I haven't seen it. He's got to stop bailing so early. I get that the line is subpar, but he tends to feel pressure that doesn't even exist. There's a good chance that with a better line will come confidence, but JA needs to do his part as well.

yes, when he has had time he has made tremendous throws from the pocket... See 2min drill vs Phins. TD bomb to Foster vs Jags. Second TD to Zay vs Phins.

"The best QB'd game we've had all season was when Barkley gave others a chance to make plays." Must help when the line was holding up for once, and we actually had a running game....

And actually I would argue the best QB'd game we have seen all year was Josh Allen vs Minnesota. We had such a lead he only threw the ball 2 times in the whole second half.

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said:

You have never seen him stay in the pocket and deliver the ball? Then stop talking in this thread since you never watched him play.

Ok Josh. I would like to see you stay in the pocket and deliver the ball instead of bailing MORE OFTEN! You've obviously done it on occasion.

 

 

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Ok Josh. I would like to see you stay in the pocket and deliver the ball instead of bailing MORE OFTEN! You've obviously done it on occasion.

 

 

How many accounts do you think Josh has on here?

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I realized many years ago that I could not control Bills games telepathically. God knows I tried.

 

I visit this message board to objectively analyze the team; not to cheerlead.

If you were being objective you would realize there have been many times Allen has hung in the pocket and delivered a strike.  As an example the 75 yard bomb to Foster.

 

You don't see it because you don't want to see it.  So spare me your objectivity nonsense.

[Beast]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

 

Does he ever even stay in the pocket, step up, and deliver the ball? I haven't seen it. He's got to stop bailing so early. I get that the line is subpar, but he tends to feel pressure that doesn't even exist. There's a good chance that with a better line will come confidence, but JA needs to do his part as well.

 

Yeah, OK.

 

Right off the top of my head, there is the Foster pass against the Jags.

 

If Allen drops back and sees nobody open, he’s going to start moving because he knows that will buy himself and receivers more time to make plays. His eyes are always down field. I’ve yet to see him looking at the rush so your take is simply ignorant to what is really happening.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Binghamton Beast

[C.Biscuit97]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

If you were being objective you would realize there have been many times Allen has hung in the pocket and delivered a strike.  As an example the 75 yard bomb to Foster.

 

You don't see it because you don't want to see it.  So spare me your objectivity nonsense.

The opposite is also true.  Believe it or not, it’s not the entire rest of the offense’s fault every time Allen makes a bad play.

 

this, like every qb debate, becomes a stupid political debate.  There are the “homers” who blame everyone else, ignore his faults, and make excuses.  He has 2 tds in a game, people say he will be a top 10 qb.  Then there are the “haters” who ignore how hard it is to be a rookie QBs, the awful offense (which the guys who picked Allen created), and say he will be a bust.

 

i try to remain in the middle.  I’m not a fan of upside, low production college qbs.  Especially in the top 10 of a draft.  I can clearly see the potential but I worry that we will keep talking about his upside while he struggles to consistently reach it.  But let’s hope that the guys which trade for Kelvin Benjamin and Jordan Matthews gets him real receivers so we can stop excuse making and just evaluate him. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

15 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Ok Josh. I would like to see you stay in the pocket and deliver the ball instead of bailing MORE OFTEN! You've obviously done it on occasion.

 

 

 

sorry man but your arguments are putting us to  ?  ? 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'm getting a little tired of the JA carried the offense narrative.

 

The best QB'd game we've had all season was when Barkley gave others a chance to make plays. Allen needs to do that more often. Hero ball doesn't play in the NFL.

Does he ever even stay in the pocket, step up, and deliver the ball? I haven't seen it. He's got to stop bailing so early. I get that the line is subpar, but he tends to feel pressure that doesn't even exist. There's a good chance that with a better line will come confidence, but JA needs to do his part as well.

You have seen him stand in the pocket

You have seen him throw the ball from the pocket

You have seen him take bad hits in the pocket

 

You either have or your not watching the games......I cant even count the times he has almost been sacked and left the pocket because of it.

[LSHMEAB]

I give up. Josh Allen is the greatest QB of all time. He has absolutely nothing to work on as he's already perfect. If anything, he needs to take it easy on opposing D's because it's unfair. 

 

As a matter of fact, the NFL is not the place for him. They really need to create a new league for someone of his caliber.

[Boca BIlls]

28 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Ok Josh. I would like to see you stay in the pocket and deliver the ball instead of bailing MORE OFTEN! You've obviously done it on occasion.

 

 

Look at you being a smart ass b.c you make up ***** and get called out for it. He bails b.c he is the best offensive player this team has and has no help from any other player.

[LSHMEAB]

Just now, Boca BIlls said:

Look at you being a smart ass b.c you make up ***** and get called out for it. He bails b.c he is the best offensive player this team has and has no help from any other player.

No, but I would expect grown men to have more coherent responses than to pounce on some technicality. 

 

He needs to stop bailing when there's no pressure and step up in the pocket more often. If you don't agree with that, there's really nothing I can offer you.

 

[Boca BIlls]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

No, but I would expect grown men to have more coherent responses than to pounce on some technicality. 

 

He needs to stop bailing when there's no pressure and step up in the pocket more often. If you don't agree with that, there's really nothing I can offer you.

 

I would expect grown men to not make up ***** for the sake of doing it and actually watch the games when they enter a thread that requires them to.

[LSHMEAB]

Just now, Boca BIlls said:

I would expect grown men to not make up ***** for the sake of doing it and actually watch the games when they enter a thread that requires them to.

Exactly. He has nothing to work on. He's perfect. He's never bailed too early. Every throw is perfect including the picks. 

 

If his coaches are anything like the members of the cult, he has absolutely no chance of improving.

 

Luckily, the Bills have semi qualified offensive coaches who will work with Josh to improve on his shortcomings and not sit him down and tell him that everything is everyone else's fault and he doesn't need to do anything different.

[Boca BIlls]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

Exactly. He has nothing to work on. He's perfect. He's never bailed too early. Every throw is perfect including the picks. 

 

If his coaches are anything like the members of the cult, he has absolutely no chance of improving.

 

Luckily, the Bills have semi qualified offensive coaches who will work with Josh to improve on his shortcomings and not sit him down and tell him that everything is everyone else's fault and he doesn't need to do anything different.

You are just looking to fight people and I should have known by your first post. "Does he ever even stay in the pocket, step up, and deliver the ball? I haven't seen it." 

 

Next time dont say ***** like that and every person in this thread might take you more serious then a troll.

[LSHMEAB]

Just now, Boca BIlls said:

You are just looking to fight people and I should have known by your first post. "Does he ever even stay in the pocket, step up, and deliver the ball? I haven't seen it." 

 

Next time dont say ***** like that and every person in this thread might take you more serious then a troll.

than

 

I've you take the time to read my posts, I've been complimentary of Josh when it's warranted and I've been critical when it's warranted.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by LSHMEAB

[Boca BIlls]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

than

 

I've you take the time to read my posts, I've been complimentary of Josh when it's warranted and I've been critical when it's warranted.

 

 

I've you?  See I can be a smart ass just like you.

[nedboy7]

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Exactly. He has nothing to work on. He's perfect. He's never bailed too early. Every throw is perfect including the picks. 

 

If his coaches are anything like the members of the cult, he has absolutely no chance of improving.

 

Luckily, the Bills have semi qualified offensive coaches who will work with Josh to improve on his shortcomings and not sit him down and tell him that everything is everyone else's fault and he doesn't need to do anything different.

 

No need to argue w weirdos.  Save your soul. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by nedboy7

[thebandit27]

3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'm getting a little tired of the JA carried the offense narrative.

 

The best QB'd game we've had all season was when Barkley gave others a chance to make plays. Allen needs to do that more often. Hero ball doesn't play in the NFL.

Does he ever even stay in the pocket, step up, and deliver the ball? I haven't seen it. He's got to stop bailing so early. I get that the line is subpar, but he tends to feel pressure that doesn't even exist. There's a good chance that with a better line will come confidence, but JA needs to do his part as well.

 

Josh Allen literally was the team's offense against the Jets.

 

He accounted for 307 of the team's 368 yards of offense, and accounted for 16 of the team's 19 first downs that didn't come from penalties.

 

If that's not carrying the offense then I don't know what is

 

And yes, he absolutely does do the things you claim you've never seen; save the hyperbole.

Edited December 13, 2018 by thebandit27

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

21 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

No need to argue w weirdos.  Save your soul. 

 

He has no soul; his reputation score is 666!

[Orlando Tim]

23 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

than

 

I've you take the time to read my posts, I've been complimentary of Josh when it's warranted and I've been critical when it's warranted.

 

 

If you stated JA has not stayed in the pocket to make a throw then you are overly critical- he has a ton to work on but the dude has stood and delivered many times and i have only watched 4 games- his bomb to robert foster was as good as it gets with standing and delivering. 

[LSHMEAB]

3 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

He has no soul; his reputation score is 666!

Ugh. Somebody needs to give me a rep point soon, even if it's one of those crooked faces!

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

If you stated JA has not stayed in the pocket to make a throw then you are overly critical- he has a ton to work on but the dude has stood and delivered many times and i have only watched 4 games- his bomb to robert foster was as good as it gets with standing and delivering. 

 

No, that would make him blind.  Anyone who has watched Josh play saw that great long bomb TD to Foster against the Jags.  It looked like he was going to be sacked yet stood in there and got the ball perfectly to Foster.  Against the Jets he stood there several times an delivered the ball.

 

Does he have things to work on?  Duh, he's a rookie who has made just 8 starts.  But to be critical of him given his supporting cast is crusading.  And I'd much rather he leave the pocket, even early, if it means not taking hits.

[K-9]

3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I'm getting a little tired of the JA carried the offense narrative.

 

The best QB'd game we've had all season was when Barkley gave others a chance to make plays. Allen needs to do that more often. Hero ball doesn't play in the NFL.

Does he ever even stay in the pocket, step up, and deliver the ball? I haven't seen it. He's got to stop bailing so early. I get that the line is subpar, but he tends to feel pressure that doesn't even exist. There's a good chance that with a better line will come confidence, but JA needs to do his part as well.

Per the bold text, if you haven’t seen Allen do that then you simply haven’t watched or haven’t been paying attention. This makes me question the validity of your posts. It’s as if you’re simply making something up to support a narrative. 

[JohnC]

19 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Josh Allen literally was the team's offense against the Jets.

 

He accounted for 307 of the team's 368 yards of offense, and accounted for 16 of the team's 19 first downs that didn't come from penalties.

 

If that's not carrying the offense then I don't know what is

 

And yes, he absolutely does do the things you claim you've never seen; save the hyperbole.

I'm a believer in JA. But that is not to say that I'm confident that he is going to be a good franchise qb. I just don't know for sure whether he will ever be able to proficiently make the reads and go through progressions? Will he be able to make throws with the appropriate touch? The trap with judging a qb with such eye popping tools is that you don't know if the physical tools will be harnessed with the mental side of the position, the most important part of playing the position. 

 

What Barkley demonstrated in the Jet game is that if you know how to play the position and have good accuracy then for the short term even a qb with limited throwing talents can get by. With physical limitations you are not going to be a long term solution but you can see the difference between a more refined qb from a raw qb. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

I give up. Josh Allen is the greatest QB of all time. He has absolutely nothing to work on as he's already perfect. If anything, he needs to take it easy on opposing D's because it's unfair. 

 

As a matter of fact, the NFL is not the place for him. They really need to create a new league for someone of his caliber.

Your most intelligent post on the subject to date. 

[LSHMEAB]

15 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Per the bold text, if you haven’t seen Allen do that then you simply haven’t watched or haven’t been paying attention. This makes me question the validity of your posts. It’s as if you’re simply making something up to support a narrative. 

It's called truthful hyperbole, but I think you already knew that.