Bills QB Josh Allen is changing skeptical minds. ---- Brady Quinn apparently prefers potential over results

[Foxx]

2 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

Brady, Wilson, Roethlisberger, Warner did it in year one.  Kaepernick got there in year two, so did Marino and Unitas.  Wentz led the Eagles much of the season last year then they won with a backup.  None of this matters though because there have be over 50 Super Bowls and 4 of those wins have come in the last 20 years.  So in the modern era, about 20-25% of Super Bowls have been won by QB's with 2 years or less experience in the league.  It is not nearly as unheard of as many of you are trying to make it out to be.

sorry but this not very accurate. please check your facts.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

19 minutes ago, Foxx said:

sorry but this not very accurate. please check your facts.

That was off the top of my head.  If my facts are wrong please educate me since you seem to know. 

19 minutes ago, Foxx said:

sorry but this not very accurate. please check your facts.

Actually I just checked pro football reference and they all seem to be accurate.  Brady, Roethlisberger and Wilson all did it in year two and Warner in year one.  Kaepernick and Marino definitely got there in year two and Kaepernick was one play away from winning it all.  Unitas is the only one I did not check.

Edited December 2, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

16 minutes ago, Foxx said:

sorry but this not very accurate. please check your facts.

Hiding now?

[iinii]

About what?

[Foxx]

1 minute ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

Hiding now?

sheesh, relax will ya. i've got other things going on. 

your references were correct. while 25% is not great odds, they aren't bad. i still think it a stretch.

[Domdab99]

I'm sold. Allen is the franchise QB we have been waiting decades for. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

I'm sold. Allen is the franchise QB we have been waiting decades for. 

He’s definitely improving.  

 

Losing KB will be a huge plus for the Bills 

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Allen's 4th quarter stats:

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Bottom line:  Is he improving?  Is he developing?  The answer is yes and that is what most people stated they wanted to see coming back from the injury.  While he still makes some of the same mistakes, such as holding on the ball too long or some accuracy issues, the ratio of mistakes versus good plays is steadily moving in the right direction.  He's been more decisive with his throws and has shown the ability to extend plays and gain critical first downs.   The game is beginning to slow down for him and I think getting Dabol out of the press box and on to the field has helped as well.    

[Ronin]

On 11/30/2018 at 12:19 AM, Johnnycage46 said:

 

I disagree.  I think his medium passing accuracy is very good.  His short game is very fixable.

 

Not really all that complex, is it?

 

I stated a fact whereas you stated an opinion.  

 

It's a FACT that there isn't a franchise QB in the league that has not mastered the short-medium game.  

 

It's your OPINION that his short-game is very fixable and that his medium passing accuracy is very good.  

 

Apparently things like that are a bit too complex for you.  I'll make an active effort not to challenge you anymore.  Don't want to push you over the top or anything.  

 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

I stated a fact whereas you stated an opinion.  

 

It's a FACT that there isn't a franchise QB in the league that has not mastered the short-medium game.  

 

It's your OPINION that his short-game is very fixable and that his medium passing accuracy is very good.  

 

Apparently things like that are a bit too complex for you.  I'll make an active effort not to challenge you anymore.  Don't want to push you over the top or anything.  

 

Mastered the short-intermediate game?   As in never misses a pass?  And your statements are facts vs. everyone else just having an opinion?  Get over yourself.  You're just another wannabe NFL coach that thinks he knows it all and doesn't.

[Ronin]

On 11/29/2018 at 10:54 PM, Johnnycage46 said:

 

But here's the thing...you can't play the "take the such and such away". If you do that you have to reverse ALL things (penalties that negated good throws, drops, etc).

 

You mention over reaction to his last game...that's the point I am making with his "inaccuracy issues". Oberblown.

Exactly.  Good point.  Its like saying well take Brady away and the Pats suck...yes that is true lol.  But they DO have Brady and Allen did rush for those yards.

 

Sure you can, UNLESS, you want to boil down a game to two passes and use those as an indication of a good game.  The balance of his stats SUCKED in that game.  

 

So OK, I realize that you're not the deepest thinker in general, but the antithesis of your statement is that if a QB blows on 90% of his passing plays generally speaking, but has two big plays in a game, he's good.  OK, as I've said, everyone's entitled to their opinion.  There isn't a franchise QB that plays like that though.  

 

Frankly, I think it's laughable that anyone would consider being good on a mere two or three passes/game, but hey, that's what makes forums so much fun to read.  

 

The critique of Allen by a Football Outsiders guy said it best about Allen's passing game, he said; 

 

"The conundrum with Allen is that these flashes -- the moments of pure brilliance -- come so few and far between. Allen dazzles once or twice a game with a play that feels impossible, only to look like a late-round pick for the remainder of his appearance."

 

That's exactly how that game went.  This past game was much better and his best of the season easily, IMO anyway, despite having had 2 INTs, both pretty much his fault.  

 

He's showing promise, but he's also going to get killed running like that.  It's only a matter of time before he gets clocked by a large LB moving at full tilt.  I don't see his career lasting more than a few years with him running like that and finishing runs head-first at the rate that he does.  Sooner or later teams are going to start adjusting to that defensively.  I really hope that the staff works that out post-haste.  

Edited December 3, 2018 by TaskersGhost

[zow2]

I liked seeing some quick, short high % passes called in the second half.  Not everything has to be a 20 yard rope or a bomb.  Brady and Rodgers for example make a living out of short throws mixed in to their games. 

 

Allen is starting to look like the best QB out of this draft, with the exception of Mayfield.  But I don't know how much better or more accurate Mayfield will get going forward?  He's good now.  Will he get better?   With Allen you feel like he will get much more comfortable and more accurate a season or two from now.   

 

Anyway, i was skeptical.. I didn't want to draft Josh Allen.  So i give credit to Beane and his staff here for moving up to get themselves into position to draft him.

[Johnnycage46]

40 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

I stated a fact whereas you stated an opinion.  

 

It's a FACT that there isn't a franchise QB in the league that has not mastered the short-medium game.  

 

It's your OPINION that his short-game is very fixable and that his medium passing accuracy is very good.  

 

Apparently things like that are a bit too complex for you.  I'll make an active effort not to challenge you anymore.  Don't want to push you over the top or anything.  

 

I have some other OPONIONS that I am not allowed to share on this site too

30 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

Sure you can, UNLESS, you want to boil down a game to two passes and use those as an indication of a good game.  The balance of his stats SUCKED in that game.  

 

So OK, I realize that you're not the deepest thinker in general, but the antithesis of your statement is that if a QB blows on 90% of his passing plays generally speaking, but has two big plays in a game, he's good.  OK, as I've said, everyone's entitled to their opinion.  There isn't a franchise QB that plays like that though.  

 

Frankly, I think it's laughable that anyone would consider being good on a mere two or three passes/game, but hey, that's what makes forums so much fun to read.  

 

The critique of Allen by a Football Outsiders guy said it best about Allen's passing game, he said; 

 

"The conundrum with Allen is that these flashes -- the moments of pure brilliance -- come so few and far between. Allen dazzles once or twice a game with a play that feels impossible, only to look like a late-round pick for the remainder of his appearance."

 

That's exactly how that game went.  This past game was much better and his best of the season easily, IMO anyway, despite having had 2 INTs, both pretty much his fault.  

 

He's showing promise, but he's also going to get killed running like that.  It's only a matter of time before he gets clocked by a large LB moving at full tilt.  I don't see his career lasting more than a few years with him running like that and finishing runs head-first at the rate that he does.  Sooner or later teams are going to start adjusting to that defensively.  I really hope that the staff works that out post-haste.  

Stalkeeerrrrrr

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

Allen's 4th quarter stats:

 

those look pretty darn good for a snapshot.  

 

 

[Ronin]

On 11/30/2018 at 12:19 AM, Johnnycage46 said:

 

I disagree.  I think his medium passing accuracy is very good.  His short game is very fixable.

 

Not really all that complex, is it?

 

And frankly, talking about not being complex, neither is going to Allen's stats and splits to see where he's performing and where he isn't.  

 

His behind the LoS passes are his best.  That would be his "short-game," or at least a big part of it, for you.  Having said that, it's still not even average by NFL QB standards.  Funny thing tho, everyone got all hopped up over Allen's deep arm when his deep-game isn't very good at all.  

 

He's 6 of 29 (20.7%) for 250 yards, 1 TD for throws that are thrown over 20 yards.  2 of 12 over 30, and 1 of 8 over 40.  

 

See, people that understand football from having watched it for decades, should understand that teams simply aren't built around deep-games.  The deep-ball is good to have in an arsenal, but almost no QBs have Allen's arm-strength, but lo-and-behold they still win Super Bowls.  Now how can that possibly be.  I know, you'll have that hamster running on that wheel in your head for a while trying to piece that one together.  

 

And BTW, that's really not far off the mark for deep-throws, even by the best QBs.  

 

Rodgers is 21 of 59 (35.6%) for 834 and 5 TDs, he's 7 of 20 over 30, and 3 of 5 over 40.  

 

Brady is 9 of 35 (25.7%) for 297 and 2 TDs, 4 of 17 over 30, and 0 for 6  over 40, far more in line with Allen's numbers.  

 

The PRIMARY different between them and Allen, and the rest of the true franchise QBs and Allen, is that their short-medium numbers are quite signficantly higher. 

 

But you know all of that in your condescension, didn't you?  You're taken a look at all of that and understood it before commenting and repeatedly telling me that I don't know as much as I think I do and otherwise implying that I know very little and that my takes, which are ALL based on thorough analyses, right?  

 

Lastly, it once again goes to show that this "deep-arm" stuff is overrated, entirely.  And note, I didn't say useless, what DID I say?  I said OVERRATED, which is OBVIOUSLY the case since you can run the same analyses for all of the franchise QBs and come up with similar.  

 

On a side note, Allen's numbers are the worst of ALL the major QBs selected in the 2018 Draft.  He's got worse completion %, Rating, TD/INT ratio, YPA, and Rating than Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, and even Jackson.  He only has a better YPA than Rosen by about a quarter of a yard.  And it's a very difficult argument to suggest that any of those QBs have notably better circumstances when three of those four teams are a combined 10-25-1 and when not one of those teams ranks above-average in offense. 

 

In FACT, the Jets rank 30th in yardage offense, we rank 31st, and the Cards rank 32nd.  

 

As I've said and continue to maintain, Allen's success in this league, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER QB, WILL BE fully determined by how well he masters the short-medium game.  Right now it's well below average and not significantly better than ANY of his draft peers, NONE OF WHOM anyone is raving about in terms of their passing games.  If that doesn't improve then he's not going to be a franchise QB in Buffalo.  

 

Now, that's an awful lot of actual FACTS and true DATA that no doubt you've already researched independently before opening your pie-hole, right?  THAT (along with the associated lengthy history of NFL QB play) is what I'm basing my assessments on.  

 

YOU on the other hand are using ego to launch into your ridiculously oversimplified, and clearly WRONG arguments.  So if you don't mind, please get off my pant-leg.  

 

Otherwise, enjoy your  over-simplified world of narrative driven gibberish.  

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by TaskersGhost

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Buffalo Bills‏Verified account @buffalobills 2h2 hours ago

 

9 rushes for 135 yards. That's the most rushing yards by a Buffalo Bills quarterback in franchise history.

 

 

 

Josh was the first Rookie to rush for 100 yards in 2 consecutive games dating back to 1961 (if I heard the announcers correctly) 

[Ronin]

24 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

I have some other OPONIONS that I am not allowed to share on this site too

Stalkeeerrrrrr

 

LOL 

 

I'd love to hear one of those OPONIANS.  

 

What, do you live here?   

 

It's funny, arguments always seem to boil down to "stalking," (in your case), chants of "trolling," cheap name-calling, and other egotistically oriented posts that suggest both anger-management as well as inabilities to cope with being wrong on the parts of people that not only have run out of whatever basis they're arguing on, but also on entirely refuted arguments.  

 

And it's funny, I was thinking the same on the Stalking part of it given the repetitive completely lacking in much veracity attacks you've launched against the facts that I've laid out.  

Edited December 3, 2018 by TaskersGhost

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

http://relatednews.net/76064/why-josh-allen-is-already-in-rare-company-plus-4-observations-from-week-13-in-the-nfl/

 

All told Allen had 135 yards rushing, a new team record, breaking his mark of 99 yards from the week before. CBS’ statistical department reported that Allen is the first rookie quarterback to run for 90 yards or more in back-to-back games since Billy Kilmer did it with Washington in 1961.

 

 

“You saw it. I don’t think I gotta to do too much talking,” said Miami DE Robert Quinn of Allen’s performance. “I don’t know how much credit he gets on his elusiveness or speed, but that guy’s got some talent over there. I think Buffalo got a nice little quarterback on their hands. Some stuff he did is really just uncoachable. Put us in a bind to the very last play. He’s a pretty special kid. If he continues to grow, he’s got all the arm talent. Just keep your eyes open, I guess.”

Edited December 3, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[Ronin]

On 11/30/2018 at 7:55 AM, Captain Hindsight said:

Because he wouldnt have attempted that deep ball to foster. He would taken the sack

 

Missed opportunities is the Tyrod Taylor story

 

Yeah, but he's showing more potential than Tryod, don't you think?  

 

I mean his running ability alone appears, ironically, to be better than Tyrod's.  I simply don't think he'll last beyond the 2020 season if he keeps running like that despite how his passing game shapes up.  (or conversely not)  

 

He really needs to start sliding once he's past the 1st-down.  I don't like him exposing himself like that.  

 

His passing game is entirely a different matter.  We'll have a far better indicator as to that after next season.  

[Captain Hindsight]

1 minute ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

Yeah, but he's showing more potential than Tryod, don't you think?  

 

I mean his running ability alone appears, ironically, to be better than Tyrod's.  I simply don't think he'll last beyond the 2020 season if he keeps running like that despite how his passing game shapes up.  (or conversely not)  

 

He really needs to start sliding once he's past the 1st-down.  I don't like him exposing himself like that.  

 

His passing game is entirely a different matter.  We'll have a far better indicator as to that after next season.  

He slid every time yesterday. I dont think he took a single big hit while running. 

 

To me he looks like he will be talked about as a top 5-6 QB in the next few years. He certainly looks better than Darnold or Rosen

 

Top 6 Qbs in the league in 5 years, just based on today

 

Mahomes

Goff

Allen

Watson

Wentz 

Mayfield

 

The Bills are sitting pretty for the first time in a long time

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

He slid every time yesterday. I dont think he took a single big hit while running. 

He slid while running in the field of play.   

 

I thought he had 2 or 3 where he ran for the sideline and a 1st down

 

[thebandit27]

Here's a pre-draft assessment of Allen that sounds pretty spot-on at this point:

 

"I keep watching Allen over and over trying to find the “major accuracy issues” that others say he’s got.  I’m sorry, but I don’t see them.  I see a guy that needs to refine his touch throws to the boundary and clean up some occasional footwork issues, but mostly I see a guy that tries to make something out of nothing too often.  Sometimes that’ll present itself via him trusting his arm too much and throwing into danger, but a lot of gunslinger-type QBs do that.  I have him as my QB4, and I’ve given him a top-10 grade; when he’s right, he’s the best QB in the class."

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

'Sneaky-fast' Josh Allen suddenly among NFL's best QB rushers

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/32650/sneaky-fast-josh-allen-suddenly-among-nfls-best-qb-rushers

[LSHMEAB]

That was by far the best we've seen of Allen. I think we're all going to have to live with errant throws as long as he's the QB.

 

There's a chance he's talented enough to overcome the inaccuracy. He will never be a precision passer.

[Warcodered]

4 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

'Sneaky-fast' Josh Allen suddenly among NFL's best QB rushers

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/32650/sneaky-fast-josh-allen-suddenly-among-nfls-best-qb-rushers

Yeah that CSU game our running continued to be a pile of crap and with the snow it was harder to get the passing game going. So Allen pretty much picked up the team and carried them with his legs until somebody else on the team decided they wanted to play. Also probably helped CSU is Wyoming's biggest rivalry game.

[Captain Hindsight]

3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

That was by far the best we've seen of Allen. I think we're all going to have to live with errant throws as long as he's the QB.

 

There's a chance he's talented enough to overcome the inaccuracy. He will never be a precision passer.

Exactly. He more Cam Newton than Brees. Both are very successful QBs in this league

[Ronin]

On 11/30/2018 at 2:04 PM, ShadyBillsFan said:

I believe I was referring to franchise QBs that run

 

LOL 

 

Of course you were.  

 

Perhaps you can work into your "franchise QBs that run" analysis an analysis as to how they are as passers.  Russell Wilson's passing game is among the best in the league in the short-medium area.  Newton's is squarely average and his seasonal performances highly inconsistent, therefore rendering him NOT a franchise QB, at least rendering it debatable at best, and if there's a debate, then it's likely not the case, at least not to the levels of certainty.  Newton's averaged a mere 22 passing TDs/season as a passer which is below average.  He's no better than average in the playoffs.  His TD/INT ratio isn't even 2:1 whereas Wilson's is over 3:1.  There's a huge contingent of Carolina fans that are not satisfied with Newton.  He's having a good season this year, but it's only his second good passing season in 8 seasons, hardly what one expects from a franchise QB.  Even with a good season this year he's still ranked 10th in rating behind Fitzpatrick and ahead of no franchise QBs that are having a good season.  As well, the Panthers at last check are 6-6, a perfect .500 with no indication that they're likely to even make the playoffs.  Might be a good idea to read up and research before blindly assailing arguments, no?  

 

Or has the NFL regressed to the level of the '70s Oklahoma Wishbone while we all had our backs turned.  

 

HELLO, 2018, the NFL is a passing league.  Franchise QBs, at least by my definition, don't average barely over 1 TD/game in post-season play.  Maybe that qualities as you see it, but if Allen developed into a QB that could only throw 1 TD/game in the playoffs, would you be happy?  I know I wouldn't be.  Would you see that as "getting the job done?"  I wouldn't.  

 

I mean everyone's raving about his 234 yards rushing in the last two games, which if we project over 16 games is 1,872 yards, despite the notion that he's averaged 52/start.  Even so, the team has still averaged a mere 20 ppg and is 1-1.  So if the rushing were all that great then I don't see how or why that would be the case, particularly against teams ranked 23rd and 29th in defense.  

 

Granted, maybe he can keep up the pace of running 100-yards per game and absolutely SHATTER ALL existing NFL paradigms.  Maybe I'm being entirely unrealistic and need a dose of blind homerism.  Do you think that the odds of that are high tho?  Or do you think that perhaps either opposing defenses, or worse yet, serious injuries, will prevent Allen from posting close to 2,000 rushing yards, OJ-like rushing numbers with a far better YPC, every season?  I don't know, call me crazy, but somehow I see destiny intervening to prevent that from occuring.  Because when he doesn't run like that there's absolutely nothing impressive about his passing other than on a spot basis once or twice a game.  

 

Ergo, he, just like as I've asserted, will have to master the short-medium passing game, just like every franchise QB has, in order to become one.  If I thought otherwise I'd be buying Powerball tickets daily with expectations of winning the Powerball every week.  

 

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Mastered the short-intermediate game?   As in never misses a pass?  And your statements are facts vs. everyone else just having an opinion?  Get over yourself.  You're just another wannabe NFL coach that thinks he knows it all and doesn't.

 

Don't quite your day job to become a polemicisdt.  

 

Weak!  

 

I think the one that needs to get over himself is you.  

Edited December 3, 2018 by TaskersGhost

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

9 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah that CSU game our running continued to be a pile of crap and with the snow it was harder to get the passing game going. So Allen pretty much picked up the team and carried them with his legs until somebody else on the team decided they wanted to play. Also probably helped CSU is Wyoming's biggest rivalry game.

now thats a funny story 

[Ronin]

30 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

He slid every time yesterday. I dont think he took a single big hit while running. 

 

To me he looks like he will be talked about as a top 5-6 QB in the next few years. He certainly looks better than Darnold or Rosen

 

Top 6 Qbs in the league in 5 years, just based on today

 

Mahomes

Goff

Allen

Watson

Wentz 

Mayfield

 

The Bills are sitting pretty for the first time in a long time

 

His PASSING numbers are worse than every QB you just mentioned.  That's a FACT.  Not sure how to debate that.  

 

You can render excuses etc., but at the end of the day those are the current numbers.  

 

He also had two horrendous INTs yesterday that were both his fault.  The ONLY reason he "looks" better is due to his rushing.  

 

His passing yardage ranked 17th yesterday, his rating ranked 25th.  It is what it is.,,

 

And if you think he slid every time, then you obviously didn't see all the plays.  Watch his every-play  video.  If you want I can put the time marks in there for you to see it in case you miss it.  That's completely incorrect.  

 

Also, your implication that he may not have taken a big hit yesterday, although I know he took a couple of hits, is what, indicative that he'll never take any or that if he keeps going head-first that he'll never get hurt?  Is that what we're all to understand here?  If so, curious what basis you have for arguing as such?  

 

The Bills will be sitting pretty when Allen becomes among the top-15, at least, in short-medium passing.  If he cannot achieve that, then we wont' be sitting pretty.  There isn't a team in the league, currently or in the recent modern past, that has "sat pretty" offensively speaking with a QB that has posted merely average or below-average short-medium passing numbers.  Not one.  But hey, maybe we'll be the first.  Is that you're hope?  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

LOL 

 

Of course you were.  

 

Perhaps you can work into your "franchise QBs that run" analysis an analysis as to how they are as passers.  Russell Wilson's passing game is among the best in the league in the short-medium area.  Newton's is squarely average and his seasonal performances highly inconsistent, therefore rendering him NOT a franchise QB, at least rendering it debatable at best, and if there's a debate, then it's likely not the case, at least not to the levels of certainty.  Newton's averaged a mere 22 passing TDs/season as a passer which is below average.  He's no better than average in the playoffs.  His TD/INT ratio isn't even 2:1 whereas Wilson's is over 3:1.  There's a huge contingent of Carolina fans that are not satisfied with Newton.  He's having a good season this year, but it's only his second good passing season in 8 seasons, hardly what one expects from a franchise QB.  Even with a good season this year he's still ranked 10th in rating behind Fitzpatrick and ahead of no franchise QBs that are having a good season.  As well, the Panthers at last check are 6-6, a perfect .500 with no indication that they're likely to even make the playoffs.  Might be a good idea to read up and research before blindly assailing arguments, no?  

 

Or has the NFL regressed to the level of the '70s Oklahoma Wishbone while we all had our backs turned.  

 

HELLO, 2018, the NFL is a passing league.  Franchise QBs, at least by my definition, don't average barely over 1 TD/game in post-season play.  Maybe that qualities as you see it, but if Allen developed into a QB that could only throw 1 TD/game in the playoffs, would you be happy?  I know I wouldn't be.  Would you see that as "getting the job done?"  I wouldn't.  

 

I mean everyone's raving about his 234 yards rushing in the last two games, which if we project over 16 games is 1,872 yards, despite the notion that he's averaged 52/start.  Even so, the team has still averaged a mere 20 ppg and is 1-1.  So if the rushing were all that great then I don't see how or why that would be the case, particularly against teams ranked 23rd and 29th in defense.  

 

Granted, maybe he can keep up the pace of running 100-yards per game and absolutely SHATTER ALL existing NFL paradigms.  Maybe I'm being entirely unrealistic and need a dose of blind homerism.  Do you think that the odds of that are high tho?  Or do you think that perhaps either opposing defenses, or worse yet, serious injuries, will prevent Allen from posting close to 2,000 rushing yards, OJ-like rushing numbers with a far better YPC, every season?  I don't know, call me crazy, but somehow I see destiny intervening to prevent that from occuring.  Because when he doesn't run like that there's absolutely nothing impressive about his passing other than on a spot basis once or twice a game.  

 

Ergo, he, just like as I've asserted, will have to master the short-medium passing game, just like every franchise QB has, in order to become one.  If I thought otherwise I'd be buying Powerball tickets daily with expectations of winning the Powerball every week.  

 

Russell Wilson didn't start out as a huge passer IIRC.  His increased passing came with time.

2012 16 games 
Passing - 3118 Just shy of 195 ypg
Rushing - 489 total 30.6 ypg

 

2017 16 games
Passing - 3983 Just shy of 250 ypg
Rushing - 586 total 36.6 ypg

 

I do not think Aallen will rush for 90 + yards per game from here on out ....  

[Captain Hindsight]

13 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

His PASSING numbers are worse than every QB you just mentioned.  That's a FACT.  Not sure how to debate that.  

 

You can render excuses etc., but at the end of the day those are the current numbers.  

 

He also had two horrendous INTs yesterday that were both his fault.  The ONLY reason he "looks" better is due to his rushing.  

 

His passing yardage ranked 17th yesterday, his rating ranked 25th.  It is what it is.,,

 

And if you think he slid every time, then you obviously didn't see all the plays.  Watch his every-play  video.  If you want I can put the time marks in there for you to see it in case you miss it.  That's completely incorrect.  

 

Also, your implication that he may not have taken a big hit yesterday, although I know he took a couple of hits, is what, indicative that he'll never take any or that if he keeps going head-first that he'll never get hurt?  Is that what we're all to understand here?  If so, curious what basis you have for arguing as such?  

 

The Bills will be sitting pretty when Allen becomes among the top-15, at least, in short-medium passing.  If he cannot achieve that, then we wont' be sitting pretty.  There isn't a team in the league, currently or in the recent modern past, that has "sat pretty" offensively speaking with a QB that has posted merely average or below-average short-medium passing numbers.  Not one.  But hey, maybe we'll be the first.  Is that you're hope?  

Just an opinion with some rose colored glasses projection to it. Lighten up Francis, Allen looked like a serious stud yesterday. He needs some polish but its hard not to be excited 

 

Its game 7 for the guy who needed the most refinement to his game. I'm willing to hope and project that he will be talked about as one of the best QBs in the game in a few years. I hope I'm right, in the meantime I'm going to enjoy watching an incredible talent play football.

 

That cool with you?

[Ronin]

11 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Russell Wilson didn't start out as a huge passer IIRC.  His increased passing came with time.

2012 16 games 
Passing - 3118 Just shy of 195 ypg
Rushing - 489 total 30.6 ypg

 

2017 16 games
Passing - 3983 Just shy of 250 ypg
Rushing - 586 total 36.6 ypg

 

I do not think Aallen will rush for 90 + yards per game from here on out ....  

 

OK, great then, so we can get the "rushing's going bail him out" out of the picture then, right?  ... for purposes of discussion that is?  Or not?  

 

Secondly, I don't believe that I ever said anything about anyone's first season.  I DID SAY, again, go re-read it, that if Allner WERE EVER TO become a franchise QB that he'd have to vastly improve his short-medium game. 

 

Not sure what that has to do with anyone's (Newton's, Wilson's, etc.) "starting out" since both have far better short-medium passing games than Allen presently has despite the nothing that whether Newton is a franchise QB or not is entirely debatable.  

 

They both improved in that way to become as good as they are whatever that level  is.  

 

And frankly, look at both of their rookie passing splits, BOTH were signifcantly better than Allen's.  

 

So I'm not quite sure what your argument is here.  If we're going on directd head-to-head Allen vs. Wilson & Newton in their rookie seasons, then Allen doesn't stack up.  That's pretty much my point, hence my continual statements that if Allen's EVER going to become a franchise QB then that area of his game will need to improve.  

 

Frankly, I can't believe that ANYONE is even arguing that point here yet there are several that are.  That's the simplest of NFL concepts.  

[billsfan1959]

12 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

He also had two horrendous INTs yesterday that were both his fault.  The ONLY reason he "looks" better is due to his rushing.  

 

The Bills will be sitting pretty when Allen becomes among the top-15, at least, in short-medium passing.  If he cannot achieve that, then we wont' be sitting pretty.  There isn't a team in the league, currently or in the recent modern past, that has "sat pretty" offensively speaking with a QB that has posted merely average or below-average short-medium passing numbers.  Not one.  But hey, maybe we'll be the first.  Is that you're hope?  

So, an interception on a Hail Mary pass is horrendous? 

 

Which short throws in yesterday's game did Allen have trouble with? I counted twelve short to medium (15 yards and under) throws. He was 11-12 on those throws and showed plenty of touch and good ball placement.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

10 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

OK, great then, so we can get the "rushing's going bail him out" out of the picture then, right?  ... for purposes of discussion that is?  Or not?  

 

Secondly, I don't believe that I ever said anything about anyone's first season.  I DID SAY, again, go re-read it, that if Allner WERE EVER TO become a franchise QB that he'd have to vastly improve his short-medium game. 

 

Not sure what that has to do with anyone's (Newton's, Wilson's, etc.) "starting out" since both have far better short-medium passing games than Allen presently has despite the nothing that whether Newton is a franchise QB or not is entirely debatable.  

 

They both improved in that way to become as good as they are whatever that level  is.  

 

And frankly, look at both of their rookie passing splits, BOTH were signifcantly better than Allen's.  

 

So I'm not quite sure what your argument is here.  If we're going on directd head-to-head Allen vs. Wilson & Newton in their rookie seasons, then Allen doesn't stack up.  That's pretty much my point, hence my continual statements that if Allen's EVER going to become a franchise QB then that area of his game will need to improve.  

 

Frankly, I can't believe that ANYONE is even arguing that point here yet there are several that are.  That's the simplest of NFL concepts.  

OK I get it.  You're not a fan of Allen 

 

Well, at this time all I have to say is that you better get used to him being here for a while 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

OK I get it.  You're not a fan of Allen 

 

Well, at this time all I have to say is that you better get used to him being here for a while 

@TaskersGhost here to prove there's still one skeptic who won't change his mind.

[Ronin]

14 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Just an opinion with some rose colored glasses projection to it. Lighten up Francis, Allen looked like a serious stud yesterday. He needs some polish but its hard not to be excited 

 

Its game 7 for the guy who needed the most refinement to his game. I'm willing to hope and project that he will be talked about as one of the best QBs in the game in a few years. I hope I'm right, in the meantime I'm going to enjoy watching an incredible talent play football.

 

That cool with you?

 

Francis, LOL.  Great line, great movie.  But don't misconstrue my statements which are entirely based on sound analysis are emotionless.  It's others get fired up because they don't align with their hopes and dreams that the "unlightening" occurs.   

 

Otherwise, well, OK, but I can't agree that "stud" play involves him passing to below average levels as week 13 QBs go.  Sounds like your basing your "projection" on his rushing, which is unsustainable.  

 

Either way, stud play and only 17 points on 415 yards of offense?  Those two picks were entirely his fault and were both horrific and costly.  Again, not sure I see greatness based on that.  

 

Otherwise, I'm not "projecting" anything, I'm merely asserting what I presume to be common sense predicated upon common knowledge, namely that he'll have to improve his short-medium passing game iif he's going to be "talked about as one of the best QBs in the game" someday.  I'd love for it to happen but what I'd love doesn't matter whatsoever.  Neither does what you'd love to see or anyone else.  What matters is how he progresses according to the level of play of other QBs that are spoken about as being "the best QBs in the game."   Right?  ... or can we make the proclamation right now predicated upon his current numbers, and here below using his best two games of the season?  

 

Right now, and based on his last two weeks of passing, and keeping in mind that both defenses are ranked in the bottom quartile, he’d be averaging on a weekly basis 13 of 26 (a perfect 50%), for 195 yards, have 24 TDs and 16 INTs on the season, a rating of about 80, and a YPA of 7.50 which is perfectly average this season. 

 

I mean does that constitute "best QB" caliber play?  It doesn't in my book, I don't know, maybe as Bills fans some people are so downtrodden about our QB history that even average has become superlative, I can't speak for everyone, but that sure seems to be the case based on some posts I'm reading and have read.  

 

So no, I cannot share your current enthusiasm without a significant bump in his passing performance, particularly in the short-medium area, when his numbers as such don’t even rank even average for those weeks.  I’m sorry, I wish I could, but based on that, no, can’t agree. 

 

There's hope, but as I see it, there has to be a very significant improvement in his passing game in order for that to be the case.  I'm pretty sure that when McBeane drafted him by trading all those picks to get him, "their guy," that they didn't have 1-1/2 TDs/game in mind and 24 TDs/season.  

 

Let's see how he finishes the season.  He's got four games left, not one of which is against a team with anything but a below-average defense.  If he can't at least keep up this pasce then I definitely don't see it based on this season.  As I've stated, next season will be the tell-tale, not only for him, but for McBeane.  No one's going to be sitting still with another season like this one.  

[Royale with Cheese]

Did I just read an INT on a hail mary is horrendous?

[Ronin]

17 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

OK I get it.  You're not a fan of Allen 

 

Well, at this time all I have to say is that you better get used to him being here for a while 

 

Don't be dense.  

 

It has absolutely NOHTING to do with whether I'm a fan of Allen or not.  Although I will say, I LOVE his character, play, demeanor, EVERYTHING about the kid in the cliche'd ""intangible" category.   But sorry, that doesn't answer the mail in terms of performance and his performance in the passing game so far on this season, is A, worse than that of any of his draft peers, NONE Of which cost their teams as much to get as him, and B, is bottom-dwelling on the season.  

 

Whether he's "here for a while" or not I can't control but also think will be determined by what I've said.  

 

Man, so many of you take exception to the most objective of comments.  Frankly, I'd LOVE it if he were "here for a while," because LIKELY it would meant that he''s at least playing to average NFL standards as  a passer, which would mean that his rushing would render him more than adequate for a QB regardless of whether he becomes a franchise QB or not. 

 

Now, dost that all add up to you to "my not being a fan of Allen?"  

 

Again, don't be dense.  

[Johnnycage46]

1 hour ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

LOL 

 

I'd love to hear one of those OPONIANS.  

 

What, do you live here?   

 

It's funny, arguments always seem to boil down to "stalking," (in your case), chants of "trolling," cheap name-calling, and other egotistically oriented posts that suggest both anger-management as well as inabilities to cope with being wrong on the parts of people that not only have run out of whatever basis they're arguing on, but also on entirely refuted arguments.  

 

And it's funny, I was thinking the same on the Stalking part of it given the repetitive completely lacking in much veracity attacks you've launched against the facts that I've laid out.  

Yawn.  And "launching attacks" is a bit dramatic.

2 hours ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

And frankly, talking about not being complex, neither is going to Allen's stats and splits to see where he's performing and where he isn't.  

 

His behind the LoS passes are his best.  That would be his "short-game," or at least a big part of it, for you.  Having said that, it's still not even average by NFL QB standards.  Funny thing tho, everyone got all hopped up over Allen's deep arm when his deep-game isn't very good at all.  

 

He's 6 of 29 (20.7%) for 250 yards, 1 TD for throws that are thrown over 20 yards.  2 of 12 over 30, and 1 of 8 over 40.  

 

See, people that understand football from having watched it for decades, should understand that teams simply aren't built around deep-games.  The deep-ball is good to have in an arsenal, but almost no QBs have Allen's arm-strength, but lo-and-behold they still win Super Bowls.  Now how can that possibly be.  I know, you'll have that hamster running on that wheel in your head for a while trying to piece that one together.  

 

And BTW, that's really not far off the mark for deep-throws, even by the best QBs.  

 

Rodgers is 21 of 59 (35.6%) for 834 and 5 TDs, he's 7 of 20 over 30, and 3 of 5 over 40.  

 

Brady is 9 of 35 (25.7%) for 297 and 2 TDs, 4 of 17 over 30, and 0 for 6  over 40, far more in line with Allen's numbers.  

 

The PRIMARY different between them and Allen, and the rest of the true franchise QBs and Allen, is that their short-medium numbers are quite signficantly higher. 

 

But you know all of that in your condescension, didn't you?  You're taken a look at all of that and understood it before commenting and repeatedly telling me that I don't know as much as I think I do and otherwise implying that I know very little and that my takes, which are ALL based on thorough analyses, right?  

 

Lastly, it once again goes to show that this "deep-arm" stuff is overrated, entirely.  And note, I didn't say useless, what DID I say?  I said OVERRATED, which is OBVIOUSLY the case since you can run the same analyses for all of the franchise QBs and come up with similar.  

 

On a side note, Allen's numbers are the worst of ALL the major QBs selected in the 2018 Draft.  He's got worse completion %, Rating, TD/INT ratio, YPA, and Rating than Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, and even Jackson.  He only has a better YPA than Rosen by about a quarter of a yard.  And it's a very difficult argument to suggest that any of those QBs have notably better circumstances when three of those four teams are a combined 10-25-1 and when not one of those teams ranks above-average in offense. 

 

In FACT, the Jets rank 30th in yardage offense, we rank 31st, and the Cards rank 32nd.  

 

As I've said and continue to maintain, Allen's success in this league, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER QB, WILL BE fully determined by how well he masters the short-medium game.  Right now it's well below average and not significantly better than ANY of his draft peers, NONE OF WHOM anyone is raving about in terms of their passing games.  If that doesn't improve then he's not going to be a franchise QB in Buffalo.  

 

Now, that's an awful lot of actual FACTS and true DATA that no doubt you've already researched independently before opening your pie-hole, right?  THAT (along with the associated lengthy history of NFL QB play) is what I'm basing my assessments on.  

 

YOU on the other hand are using ego to launch into your ridiculously oversimplified, and clearly WRONG arguments.  So if you don't mind, please get off my pant-leg.  

 

Otherwise, enjoy your  over-simplified world of narrative driven gibberish.  

 

Lol.  You think I was being condescending?  Re-read your posts.  You are a bully plain and simple.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Johnnycage46