Barkley should start and lose or keep the job. Nuance, emotion, morale are important.

[billsfan1959]

18 minutes ago, simpleman said:

Just because a player is drafted so high,  and costs an obscene amount of draft and player capital to possibly be a franchise QB, does not automatically make him a franchise QB.

He was admittedly considered a project QB by the team. And according to the "process" was suppose to sit and learn, practice and keep learning more and more until he was actually "ready" to start.

 

 Because of the team's mismanagement he was started much earlier because Peterman crashed and burned in a historically bad way. There was no "Plan B". They were forced to start him. Not because he was suddenly ready, or he "earned" the start by his astounding progress.

He showed occasional flashes, but still looked exactly like the raw rookie he was when he was drafted. His faults were not corrected and he did not show great progress in his starts.  Maybe he can be a franchise QB in time. But maybe he will never be.

 

 Throwing a QB into the game before he is ready is not in any way historically proven to make him better. More starts before he is truly ready does not magically make him better. More polishing does not automatically make everything shinier.  If he is not ready to shine yet, he will not shine no matter how many times you polish him.  He needs to be ready first.

 

 No matter how badly you want him to be your savior, no matter how desperately McBeane wants him to be their savior does not make him THE savior.

 

 The fact is that Barkley made the Bills offense look the best they have in years in his first game with the Bills, with minimal practice and preparation. They just clicked. Allen did not do that. There are plenty of games left this year to give the Bills and Barkley another game to see if it was just a fluke, or if it was real chemistry. If Allen truly is the true savior everyone wants to believe he is, one less game among many in an otherwise meaningless season will not suddenly evaporate his savior-hood.

 

If you truly are a believer in "the process" that a player earns his starts by his actions and his play, how has Barkley not earned the right to show whether his play with this Bills team in a live game that counts was just a fluke, or  that he actually has the chemistry and the skills to continue to start and win?

 

You judge Allen based on 20 quarters of play and 139 attempts at the beginning of the season, yet somehow ignore Barkley's entire NFL history in wondering if he has "the skills to start and win."

 

Amazing how four teams in six years have missed the obviousness of Barkley's potential.

[simpleman]

47 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

You judge Allen based on 20 quarters of play and 139 attempts at the beginning of the season, yet somehow ignore Barkley's entire NFL history in wondering if he has "the skills to start and win."

 

Amazing how four teams in six years have missed the obviousness of Barkley's potential.

Let us compare apples to apples. Which player has played better in their NFL starting history and their history with this Bills team?  How do you know Barkley will not get better with more time and experience with this Bills team, or that Allen will get better and not already is at his ceiling. You don't, and neither do I. Just because you want it to happen does not magically make it happen.  Why not try it and see?

Season	Team			Passing										Rushing				Fumbles
		G	GS	Comp	Att	Pct	Yds	Avg	TD	Int	Sck	SckY	Rate	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	FUM	Lost
2018	Buffalo Bills	6	5	75	139	54.0	832	6.0	2	5	21	167	61.8	35	155	4.4	3	4	1

 

2018	Buffalo Bills	1	1	15	25	60.0	232	9.3	2	0	1	8	117.4	3	-2	-0.7	0	--	--
2016	Chicago Bears	7	6	129	216	59.7	1,611	7.5	8	14	6	43	68.3	7	2	0.3	0	4	2

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by simpleman

[billsfan1959]

3 minutes ago, simpleman said:

Let us compare apples to apples. Which player has played better in their NFL starting history and their history with this Bills team?  How do you know Barkley will not get better with more time and experience with this Bills team, or that Allen will get better and not already is at his ceiling. You don't, and neither do I. Just because you want it to happen does not magically make it happen.  Why not try it and see?

Season	Team			Passing										Rushing				Fumbles
		G	GS	Comp	Att	Pct	Yds	Avg	TD	Int	Sck	SckY	Rate	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	FUM	Lost
2018	Buffalo Bills	6	5	75	139	54.0	832	6.0	2	5	21	167	61.8	35	155	4.4	3	4	1

 

2018	Buffalo Bills	1	1	15	25	60.0	232	9.3	2	0	1	8	117.4	3	-2	-0.7	0	--	--
2016	Chicago Bears	7	6	129	216	59.7	1,611	7.5	8	14	6	43	68.3	7	2	0.3	0	4	2

 

 

Barkley's stats in 2016 were after he had been in the league for FOUR years and they were AWFUL. Then you add in a game from a 6 year veteran against a team, in the New York Jets, who couldn't have looked less interested in playing and EVERYTHING the Bills did offensively worked. And Barkley STILL should have been intercepted at least two times in that game. 

 

And you compare that to the stats of a rookie after 20 quarters of football? Apples to Apples? Really?

 

Thank God the front office and coaching staff of this team has better sense

[John in Jax]

20 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Thank God the front office and coaching staff of this team has better sense

Now that's about the funniest thing I've read on this board in a long time. It ain't brain surgery or rocket science out there. This front office and coaching staff are a joke. Clap, clap, clap. LOL

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, simpleman said:

Just because a player is drafted so high,  and costs an obscene amount of draft and player capital to possibly be a franchise QB, does not automatically make him a franchise QB.

He was admittedly considered a project QB by the team. And according to the "process" was suppose to sit and learn, practice and keep learning more and more until he was actually "ready" to start.

 

 Because of the team's mismanagement he was started much earlier because Peterman crashed and burned in a historically bad way. There was no "Plan B". They were forced to start him. Not because he was suddenly ready, or he "earned" the start by his astounding progress.

He showed occasional flashes, but still looked exactly like the raw rookie he was when he was drafted. His faults were not corrected and he did not show great progress in his starts.  Maybe he can be a franchise QB in time. But maybe he will never be.

 

 Throwing a QB into the game before he is ready is not in any way historically proven to make him better. More starts before he is truly ready does not magically make him better. More polishing does not automatically make everything shinier.  If he is not ready to shine yet, he will not shine no matter how many times you polish him.  He needs to be ready first.

 

 No matter how badly you want him to be your savior, no matter how desperately McBeane wants him to be their savior does not make him THE savior.

 

 The fact is that Barkley made the Bills offense look the best they have in years in his first game with the Bills, with minimal practice and preparation. They just clicked. Allen did not do that. There are plenty of games left this year to give the Bills and Barkley another game to see if it was just a fluke, or if it was real chemistry. If Allen truly is the true savior everyone wants to believe he is, one less game among many in an otherwise meaningless season will not suddenly evaporate his savior-hood.

 

If you truly are a believer in "the process" that a player earns his starts by his actions and his play, how has Barkley not earned the right to show whether his play with this Bills team in a live game that counts was just a fluke, or  that he actually has the chemistry and the skills to continue to start and win?

 

 

Barkley hasn't "earned" a thing as a guy who walked in off the street a few weeks ago and he isn't the future of the franchise as a career fringe backup who was out of football in 2017.  He played a pretty good game against the Jets and people like you are losing their minds as if he played at a lights out Drew Brees level. 

 

Allen is the future and he needs game experience with no better time than the remainder of this 2018 season with the team going nowhere at 3-7.  That's what should happen and it's going to as the youth movement on the team continues with 1st and 2nd year players taking on prominent roles toward 2019 and beyond. 

[simpleman]

22 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Barkley's stats in 2016 were after he had been in the league for FOUR years and they were AWFUL. Then you add in a game from a 6 year veteran against a team, in the New York Jets, who couldn't have looked less interested in playing and EVERYTHING the Bills did offensively worked. And Barkley STILL should have been intercepted at least two times in that game. 

 

And you compare that to the stats of a rookie after 20 quarters of football? Apples to Apples? Really?

 

Thank God the front office and coaching staff of this team has better sense

Barkley has only started 2 more games or 8 more quarters than Allen by your math. And Chicago was a very bad 3-13 team, it was not just the games when Barkley started that they were bad. Judge the players by the games they start and the statistics they actually have. That is apples to apples as close as we can get.

 

[billsfan1959]

6 minutes ago, John in Jax said:

Now that's about the funniest thing I've read on this board in a long time. It ain't brain surgery or rocket science out there. This front office and coaching staff are a joke. Clap, clap, clap. LOL

Right. It isn't brain surgery or rocket science. It is pretty clear Barkley is not the future of this team. And yes, the front office and coaching staff have better sense than to waste time assessing a career backup, at best.

3 minutes ago, simpleman said:

Barkley has only started 2 more games or 8 more quarters than Allen by your math. And Chicago was a very bad 3-13 team, it was not just the games when Barkley started that they were bad. Judge the players by the games they start and the statistics they actually have. That is apples to apples as close as we can get.

 

Anyone with even a cursory understanding of football would see what utter nonsense this is.

[simpleman]

Very few here have said that Barkley has proven to be a  Franchise QB.

 

But the figures also don't show that Allen has proven to be any better than Barkley, or that he is has a better chance of being a Franchise QB.  I didn't just profess a faith, I showed the figures and statistics and didn't profess  any particular faith. Your faith and hope do not matter to anyone but yourself, nor will not make it so in the harsh  reality of the real world of pro football.

 

Isn't it logical to give them both chance to prove themselves. Are you afraid to let the reality of playing the games to find out for sure because of your fear it will prove your faith to unfounded?

 

  I just want an exciting, winning team. I really don't care if either Allen, Barkley, or someone else is the QB that can make that happen. I don't have a horse in the QB race, or have the prejudices for or against any of the horses.  I just want to have it happen.

Edited November 19, 2018 by simpleman

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, simpleman said:

Very few here have said that Barkley has proven to be a  Franchise QB.

 

But the figures also don't show that Allen has proven to be any better than Barkley, or that he is has a better chance of being a Franchise QB.  I didn't just profess a faith, I showed the figures and statistics and didn't profess  any particular faith. Your faith and hope do not matter to anyone but yourself, nor will not make it so in the harsh  reality of the real world of pro football.

 

Isn't it logical to give them both chance to prove themselves. Are you afraid to let the reality of playing the games to find out for sure in the fear it will prove your faith to unfounded?

 

  I just want an exciting, winning team. I really don't care if either Allen, Barkley, or someone else is the QB that can make that happen. I don't have a horse in the QB race, or have the prejudices for or against any of the horses.  I just want to have it happen.

 

No it isn't because player evaluations are just about looking at statistics with so much more that factors into the consideration. 

[Captain Hindsight]

Why does everyone seem to want to keep the Ferrari in the garage?

 

Everyone just assumes Allen will come out ad struggle. Maybe he will. What if he comes out and plays well? What if he puts up 30 points against Jacksonville?

What if he wins 4 games in a row?

 

If The Bills started Barkley and he plays like Barkley has in recent years, the Bills still wont make the playoffs and the Bills will be no closer to knowing if Allen is a cornerstone to build around

 

If healthy, you play Allen. There is no reason not too other than people being afraid he wont be good. 

[billsfan1959]

11 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Why does everyone seem to want to keep the Ferrari in the garage?

 

Everyone just assumes Allen will come out ad struggle. Maybe he will. What if he comes out and plays well? What if he puts up 30 points against Jacksonville?

What if he wins 4 games in a row?

 

If The Bills started Barkley and he plays like Barkley has in recent years, the Bills still wont make the playoffs and the Bills will be no closer to knowing if Allen is a cornerstone to build around

 

If healthy, you play Allen. There is no reason not too other than people being afraid he wont be good. 

The desire to start a six-year, journeyman, career backup on a 3-7 team to "see what he can do," or with some idea that he will defy his own history and, somehow, lead this team on a 7 game winning streak to, maybe, put themselves in the position of squeaking into the playoffs - rather than giving game experience to the guy who actually has the potential to be a franchise QB, and an opportunity for the coaching staff to evaluate him in game situations over the remainder of this season?

 

That might be the very definition of insanity.

[teef]

people really think that barkley is suddenly something?  well then...

[Chandler#81]

This thread is exhibit A for why I’ve taken a break from here. I thought it was the horrendous way we were losing/kept plugging in Peterman/Cap Hell suffering/McD’s kinky love for ex-Panthers, if not a combination. But this -and many threads on page 1 recently, is at the heart of my disillusionment, akin to empty headed, grade school zombie mentality. Yeah, I’m old. I’ve seen or heard every Bills play from the beginning, but I pine for the quality football discussions we were once known for here..

 

Get off my lawn!?

 

had to get that that off my chest..

[billsredneck1]

17 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

And I hope Mariota’s reinjuring of the same elbow today that he ALSO injured early this season with a UCL injury gives McDermott some pause before just throwing Allen back in.

well that may give him an out with starting allen if there is even 1% of concern.

[zow2]

I do see the importance of starting Allen.  Unfortunately there's no playoff chase so McD has real live games to evaluate Allen which is critical.  HOWEVER,  was it critical for Pat Mahomes to get a bunch of games last season?  Sure doesn't look like it. 

 

On the flip side, McD is trying to win games, maintain team morale and put his club in the best position to get victories.  What if the Bills are down to the Jags 13-3 at halftime this weekend and mainly because the QB is doing absolutely nothing (he's missing receivers high and low, running himself into sacks, etc..).  The fans boo them off the field..   It's a tough call for the coach when you know a guy on the sidelines has more experience & confidence...and might be able to see things and move the club better.

 

So yes, I'm ok with Allen starting...but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the Bills announce late in the week that Josh is being rested one more week and that "he's real close, just not quite yet"..

 

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

A backup who does a great job when called upon should be celebrated for being a good backup, not automatically elevated to the starter role. When healthy, Allen must start. The Bills need to know what they have in him and get him as much experience as soon as possible. 

[26TrapDraw]

On 11/17/2018 at 12:08 PM, 26CornerBlitz said:

Starting Barkley would be a complete waste of time. It's the same kind of shortsightedness that has held the franchise back for far too long and I am happy to see that they didn't fall into this trap sitting at 3-7.

Exactly this . Division 3 Coe College could of hung a half a thowy worth of offense on this completely uninspired Jets team who seem to have given up on their coach and season . The focus should absolutely be on Allen's development along with the other youngsters going into the last 6. There is plenty to watch and be excited about going into the offseason and 2019 if some of these young players ( Teller, Josh Allen McKenzie,  Zay Jones, Taron Johnson Phillips etc.) Keep developing  next year will show a much improved team with free agent additions and the draft. I can actually see the vision now that McBeane is trying to put together. Excited about the potential this team has for once.

[Alphadawg7]

On 11/17/2018 at 12:07 PM, BadLandsMeanie said:

This is a weakness for McDermott that shows up repeatedly. 

 

He should start Barkely because the Bills kicked butt behind Barkely. It is that simple.

 

Barkely should be able to prove it was either a fluke, or not. The team deserves that.

 

Instead they will start Allen for no other reason other than they drafted him.

 

How is the team supposed to be positive and stoked when they know they finally had a tremendous victory and in response the coaches pulled the starting QB?

 

What if Allen does the most likely thing, and struggles? What if it is so bad they have to pull him? Then he is behind the 8 ball if you ask me. They are risking that for no good enough reason.

 

This staff paints themselves into corners where the only possible non-disaster outcome is that their plan goes exactly the way they envision.

 

So lets hope Allen does great because if he doesn't we will have a better playing QB sitting on the bench just because the coach says so.

 

And the team and us fans will never know for sure if Barkley was a fluke or not.

 

If Barkely starts and does great, then there is no down side. If he starts and flops, then we have Allen and we put him in next time. The only down side this way is that Allen loses a game of practice.

 

If Allen starts and does great it will be the first time, and it will be great. But it is unlikely. And if he starts and flops badly then you have all kinds of trouble. 

 

The decision is easy and as usual with the QB spot  the coaching staff  made the wrong one.

 

 

 

 

There is so much wrong with this post that I don’t even know where to begin.  So I won’t.

[KW95 - JA17]

How long does it take to know a QB is good or not?

 

This thing about planning for 2019 and the future is 50/50 at best.  Josh Allen has looked terrible. Do we play him for 6 more weeks and then next year the whole year?

 

If the light doesn't pop, when do you pull the plug?

 

I dont trust the bills Franchise to know the answer.  however, they should draft another QB is Allen is terrible for the next 6 games.

 

 

[zow2]

41 minutes ago, KW95 said:

How long does it take to know a QB is good or not?

 

This thing about planning for 2019 and the future is 50/50 at best.  Josh Allen has looked terrible. Do we play him for 6 more weeks and then next year the whole year?

 

If the light doesn't pop, when do you pull the plug?

 

I dont trust the bills Franchise to know the answer.  however, they should draft another QB is Allen is terrible for the next 6 games.

 

 

 

I always feel like with a high draft choice (QB) he gets two full seasons to prove it.   So yes, if he does not pan out, the club loses for 2 years.  I thought Trubisky sucked last year, but this year it's starting to click.  he doesn't make the right decisions 100% of the time (none of them do), but he's pretty good and should only get better.    It gets complicated if/when the backup comes in and makes the offense click better than the high draft pick. But usually that backup has a known ceiling, and it's not as high as the potential ceiling for the young guy.    

[Scott7975]

No.  No he shouldn't. This team is invested in Allen.  They view him as the franchise guy of the future.  He needs to play to progress.  If he is healthy, and most likely he is, he should be playing.  This team isn't trying to get some feel good wins.  They are trying to develop a franchise QB.  End of story.

[GoBills808]

Some of you guys have a real hard time with the concept of the backup QB.

[longtimebillsfan]

 The best use for the remaining six games is to see what we have with our younger players.  It is most important that Allen get as many reps in live game action as possible.  Is he is on the bench this year, that means we will be playing a 2nd floor qb next season with only 4 career starts.  

 

I am hopeful that the 2019 is when we start to see the offense and the entire team starting to develop into a contender.  

 

Get Allen and our young players experience so they can hit the ground running next season. 

[blacklabel]

Yeah, it's pretty much been covered but they're wasting their time starting Barkley if Allen is healthy.

 

2018 is the sacrifice season for the sustained success they hope to create going forward. This is Josh Allen's team. There's no point in starting your backup guy just because he had a decent game against a completely uninspired team. The Jets are on the verge of blowing it all up and players know this. There are guys on that team headed for free agency who aren't going to ball out to avoid injury so they can land a deal elsewhere. The team apparently likes Bowles, but the writing is on the wall and the entire organization knows that Todd Bowles and his crew will be out come January 2019.

 

The Jets also dropped two picks that Barkley almost handed them on a silver platter. His arm isn't much better than Peterman's. It's nice to have his experience but when he's been "the guy" for an extended period of time, he hasn't been great. He's on his fifth team in six seasons. His TD:INT ratio is 10 to 18. Yeah, he has a couple of 300 yard games under his belt but that's mostly the result of playing in garbage time. It happens every season, an inexperienced or career backup comes in and has a nice game. Or an undrafted no-name kid steps in and lights it up for a minute (Nick Mullens) but they fizzle out rather quickly.

 

There's no replacement for live game reps and that's what Allen needs in order to grow and develop. I'm sure he's learned a lot on the sidelines and I'm sure he's already learned a few things from Barkley. But the front office didn't wheel and deal and make a plethora of trades and cuts to let the 2018 7th overall pick sit on the bench in lieu of a 4th round guy who came from the esteemed QB class of 2013. 

 

I've seen more and more fans on this board accept the fact that 2018 is really all about progression for the youth movement on this team. The sooner more people accept that, the easier it'll be to get through this season. What I'm watching for is progress from a lot of these players that are expected to be cornerstones for the next however many years. And so far, I think the draft picks McBeane have brought in are playing well. Tre White is excellent, Zay Jones is coming along, Dion Dawkins is solid and should only get better, Matt Milano seems to find ways to make plays in every game, jury's out on Allen but when you see the good things from him it's like, yeesh, that was *really* good but unfortunately right now he balances that with the polar opposite with plays that'll make you go, yeesh, that was really bad! His ceiling is the highest of any of the QBs taken this year, I hope he hits it. Tremaine Edmunds is another player that should only get better with more playing time and the kid is a physical freak of nature, his length alone causes QBs to be hesitant to throw through any of the lanes he's close to, Harrison Phillips gets to learn the ropes from Kyle Williams, Taron Johnson has me thinking of Antoine Winfield when it comes to tackling (Winfield was honestly one of the best open-field tacklers I've ever seen, severely underrated corner IMO), Wyatt Teller had a nice first start. So, if all of those guys pan out and the only whiffs these guys have are a 5th round QB, a 6th round LB and a 7th round WR, then... how can we gripe? Because that's a massive success rate on their draft picks.

 

It's gonna pick up. This team is gonna be fun to watch in the near future. I got sidetracked but either way, this is Allen's team and if he can play, he plays, it's that simple.

[RosenNOTchosen1]

9 hours ago, teef said:

people really think that barkley is suddenly something?  well then...

He played a lot better than Josh Allen.

[RosenNOTchosen1]

4 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

No.  No he shouldn't. This team is invested in Allen.  They view him as the franchise guy of the future.  He needs to play to progress.  If he is healthy, and most likely he is, he should be playing.  This team isn't trying to get some feel good wins.  They are trying to develop a franchise QB.  End of story.

Doesn't mean it's the right move.

 

How do we really know that Barkley can't be a good starting QB in this league? He's only started a handful of games in the NFL so far (for a bad Bears team). And in those starts he had multiple 300 yard passing games.

 

 

[without a drought]

If they start Allen we may never get to see Barkley crash and burn.

[Tyrion]

https://binged.it/2DNfQKI

[simpleman]

20 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Why does everyone seem to want to keep the Ferrari in the garage?

 

Everyone just assumes Allen will come out ad struggle. Maybe he will. What if he comes out and plays well? What if he puts up 30 points against Jacksonville?

What if he wins 4 games in a row?

 

If The Bills started Barkley and he plays like Barkley has in recent years, the Bills still wont make the playoffs and the Bills will be no closer to knowing if Allen is a cornerstone to build around

 

If healthy, you play Allen. There is no reason not too other than people being afraid he wont be good. 

If we had a Ferrari, we should drive it.

 

The point is Allen has played more like a Pacer than a Ferrari. And if you compare Barkley's best game with the Bills with Allen's best game, Allen has not been at all closer to a Ferrari compared to Barkley. You can throw a Ferrari engine in a VW Beetle body and have a massive engine, and still not have a way to harness that massive engine in that body.

 

 And then again, how many people drive their corvettes in the winter. Most get  junky winter car and garage the vette. This current Bills offense is the equivalent of a crappy winter.

 Allen has shown he has a Ferrari arm as far as power, but as far as accuracy, decision making, vision and the other mental skills that make a QB a Ferrari, he has performed like that excessively high mileage Pacer you think Barkley is.

 

At this point the only thing Allen has going for him over Barkley is he has that new car smell. Barkley has outperformed Allen with his arm in his one outing with the Bills. They may both end up being Pacers, why not let them both get a chance to prove themselves. Let the best man win instead of anointing Allen based on his high price-tag and his new smell. 

 

Give them both a fair chance in a race and see who is the Pacer and who is the Ferrari. Then everyone will know the answer.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by simpleman

[teef]

12 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

He played a lot better than Josh Allen.

Is this the best you can do?

11 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

Doesn't mean it's the right move.

 

How do we really know that Barkley can't be a good starting QB in this league? He's only started a handful of games in the NFL so far (for a bad Bears team). And in those starts he had multiple 300 yard passing games.

 

 

Nothing like bills fans being in love with a back up qb.  Shoot for the stars kiddo. 

[billsfan1959]

11 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

Doesn't mean it's the right move.

 

How do we really know that Barkley can't be a good starting QB in this league? He's only started a handful of games in the NFL so far (for a bad Bears team). And in those starts he had multiple 300 yard passing games.

 

 

Maybe by objectively looking at his history? Or, trusting the front offices and coaching staffs of four teams who obviously didn't/don't believe he could be? Those are just two things that come to mind. I'm sure there are more...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, simpleman said:

The point is Allen has played more like a Pacer than a Ferrari.

 

 

 

And here is the crux of his "point."

Didn't like Allen. Doesn't think he can succeed. So, he wants a 6 year scrub to start, instead.

[simpleman]

6 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

And here is the crux of his "point."

Didn't like Allen. Doesn't think he can succeed. So, he wants a 6 year scrub to start, instead.

Don't let the facts get in your way.  Just like our political leaders, you spread fake news and misrepresent  any intelligent discussion. I don't know if either will succeed, or are capable of succeeding. Just because I want to give them both a chance to succeed or fail by actually competing and showing us the answer rather than just anointing one or the other based on a hope and and a prayer you blatantly distort my statement to say I want Barkley to succeed and Allen to fail. I suggest you take a refresher course in reading comprehension.

 

"They may both end up being Pacers, why not let them both get a chance to prove themselves. Let the best man win instead of anointing Allen based on his high price-tag and his new smell. Give them both a fair chance in a race and see who is the Pacer and who is the Ferrari. Then everyone will know the answer."

 

I want a QB who can make the team a winner.  I don't rule either one out. I don't care who it is. It can be Allen, or Barkley or someone else. Period.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, simpleman said:

I want a QB who can make the team a winner.  I don't rule either one out. I don't care who it is. It can be Allen, or Barkley or someone else. Period.

 

 

Noble. So how do you know whether or not Allen can make the team a winner?

 

You just said he's a Pacer, not a Ferrari. How are you arriving at that judgement?

 

Don't bother answering, I already know what your REAL answer is, no matter how hard you try and couch it.

 

[simpleman]

 

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Noble. So how do you know whether or not Allen can make the team a winner?

 

You just said he's a Pacer, not a Ferrari. How are you arriving at that judgement?

 

Don't bother answering, I already know what your REAL answer is, no matter how hard you try and couch it.

 

You definitely have a serious reading comprehension problem. I said "Give them both a fair chance in a race and see who is the Pacer and who is the Ferrari" You read that as "Allen is the Pacer".

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, simpleman said:

 

You definitely have a serious reading comprehension problem. I said "Give them both a fair chance in a race and see who is the Pacer and who is the Ferrari" You read that as "Allen is the Pacer".

 

From your post:

 

Quote

The point is Allen has played more like a Pacer than a Ferrari

 

Hm.

 

[Alphadawg7]

How is this absurd thread 10 pages?  I mean who is really still discussing this nonsense?  

[JohninMinn.]

The worst part of the start Barkley outcry is that it exposes how many marginal fans are in the TBD  forum. I dont mind my wife bugging me with such emotional blindness but when hordes of playstation gamers  mount their campaign i get nauseous

[transplantbillsfan]

On 11/19/2018 at 12:35 AM, simpleman said:

Just because a player is drafted so high,  and costs an obscene amount of draft and player capital to possibly be a franchise QB, does not automatically make him a franchise QB.

He was admittedly considered a project QB by the team. And according to the "process" was suppose to sit and learn, practice and keep learning more and more until he was actually "ready" to start.

 

 Because of the team's mismanagement he was started much earlier because Peterman crashed and burned in a historically bad way. There was no "Plan B". They were forced to start him. Not because he was suddenly ready, or he "earned" the start by his astounding progress.

He showed occasional flashes, but still looked exactly like the raw rookie he was when he was drafted. His faults were not corrected and he did not show great progress in his starts.  Maybe he can be a franchise QB in time. But maybe he will never be.

 

 Throwing a QB into the game before he is ready is not in any way historically proven to make him better. More starts before he is truly ready does not magically make him better. More polishing does not automatically make everything shinier.  If he is not ready to shine yet, he will not shine no matter how many times you polish him.  He needs to be ready first.

 

 No matter how badly you want him to be your savior, no matter how desperately McBeane wants him to be their savior does not make him THE savior.

 

 The fact is that Barkley made the Bills offense look the best they have in years in his first game with the Bills, with minimal practice and preparation. They just clicked. Allen did not do that. There are plenty of games left this year to give the Bills and Barkley another game to see if it was just a fluke, or if it was real chemistry. If Allen truly is the true savior everyone wants to believe he is, one less game among many in an otherwise meaningless season will not suddenly evaporate his savior-hood.

 

If you truly are a believer in "the process" that a player earns his starts by his actions and his play, how has Barkley not earned the right to show whether his play with this Bills team in a live game that counts was just a fluke, or  that he actually has the chemistry and the skills to continue to start and win?

 

 

Here's the thing: nothing long term is accomplished by starting Barkley for another game if Allen is 100% healthy.

 

I assume, and sure do hope, that Allen risks no further injury.

 

If that's the case, this is a mostly easy call.

 

I say mostly, not entirely, because I stand by my belief that this move is a little riskier from the "now" perspective, knowing that this team still has an outside chance at the playoffs and that a single loss will eliminate us.  Barkley would have been "safer," which is why I thought there was a decent chance he would start again.

 

But I like this move by McDermott.  It shows he has guts.

 

Allen should have been named starter early in Training Camp.  It still irritates me that he didn't and I think it cost us at least a couple of wins and stunted Allen's develpment a little.  But now that he's seen the field, start him if he's fully healthy.

 

If he absolutely sucks on Sunday, I'm betting there will be at least internal, but also probably external backlash against McDermott's decision to start him.  I don't think that'll happen.  I think Allen will look pretty good.  In fact, I hope that what he said about "things were finally starting to slow down for me" back in the Houston game is true and this final 6 game stretch is one where we see him look like our QB of the future.

 

Throw out whatever stats you want, but I think he's already looked a lot like a Franchise QB... just as a rookie.  With an OL that got dramatically better against the Jets (thank you Teller!!!) and a WR corps that finally has some speed AND hands (except for the useless KB) and a seemingly revitalized Shady McCoy, I think we're going to be safe from falling into being one of the infamously worst offenses in the NFL.  And I think Allen will lead us into an exciting offseason after getting this team to somewhere between 3-5 more wins.

 

At this point, starting Barkley with a fully healthy Allen just doesn't accomplish anything other than driving up Barkley's asking price in the offseason.  And don't you want Barkley back as our long term backup in case Allen gets injured or flops down the line? 

 

I do.

 

But we invested waaaaaaayyyyy too much in Allen for him not to get a seriously long look.  I don't think you can even talk about benching him until his 3rd season in the league.  And despite what some others seem to be clamoring for--we absolutely will NOT be drafting a QB in the 1st or 2nd round this year.  And I'm hoping we don't really need to until a very late round for a 3rd string developmental QB because we will have locked Barkley up long term as our backup, which we won't be able to do if Barkley plays a couple more games and plays really well.

Edited November 20, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[Mat68]

He is simply a better player.  He is more accurate, more athletic, and a better arm.  Allen is the leader of the offense.  Against a tough aggressive defense Allen will have to make some wow plays for Buffalo to stay in the game. His game vs Minnestoa and Houston are easily forgotten.