QB Position: Do they know what they are doing?

[ngbills]

Here is the negative take on today's win. With how Barkley played, which I would call competent, what does that say about McD and/ Beane?

 

In a way it shows how bad Peterman is. How bad D Anderson, even though better than Peterman is. How not ready Josh Allen is. 

 

Barkley is how AJM could have been or many other competent NFL QB's. Instead they felt Peterman was the best option and then a not ready Allen, then Peterman again and Anderson and Peterman again. Seriously? I know its naive at times to think we know more then the pros. But just about anyone but McD and Beane saw that Peterman was not a competent QB. He should not be in the NFL. 

 

Nice win today I guess. BUt it does not give me faith or confidence in McBeane team to lead this team onto the next level.  

[xsoldier54]

10 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Here is the negative take on today's win. With how Barkley played, which I would call competent, what does that say about McD and/ Beane?

 

In a way it shows how bad Peterman is. How bad D Anderson, even though better than Peterman is. How not ready Josh Allen is. 

 

Barkley is how AJM could have been or many other competent NFL QB's. Instead they felt Peterman was the best option and then a not ready Allen, then Peterman again and Anderson and Peterman again. Seriously? I know its naive at times to think we know more then the pros. But just about anyone but McD and Beane saw that Peterman was not a competent QB. He should not be in the NFL. 

 

Nice win today I guess. BUt it does not give me faith or confidence in McBeane team to lead this team onto the next level.  

Again, you have no idea who they may have tried to sign.  They wound up with McCarron, he got hurt.   Anderson wasn't sure he wanted to come back and Barkley was with the Bengals, then injured.   It's not that they over valued Peterman, they just wanted him to hang in for a few games until Allen was ready.  It ddn't work out.  I for one am enjoying today's win and that's really all I care about right now.

[fansince88]

I feel it shows they are not afraid to churn the roster and you need to learn how to TRUST THE PROCESS!!

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

6 minutes ago, xsoldier54 said:

Again, you have no idea who they may have tried to sign.  They wound up with McCarron, he got hurt.   Anderson wasn't sure he wanted to come back and Barkley was with the Bengals, then injured.   It's not that they over valued Peterman, they just wanted him to hang in for a few games until Allen was ready.  It ddn't work out.  I for one am enjoying today's win and that's really all I care about right now.

They could have kept McCarron.  He was fine.  In truth, NP outplayed AJM in the preseason, so starting NP was not illogical.  But getting rid of AJM was foolish.  It left no options if NP repeated last year and Allen wasn't ready.  Which is exactly what happened.

 

That said, looks like they finally found a good one so lets ride this for a while.

[vorpma]

24 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Here is the negative take on today's win. With how Barkley played, which I would call competent, what does that say about McD and/ Beane?

 

In a way it shows how bad Peterman is. How bad D Anderson, even though better than Peterman is. How not ready Josh Allen is. 

 

Barkley is how AJM could have been or many other competent NFL QB's. Instead they felt Peterman was the best option and then a not ready Allen, then Peterman again and Anderson and Peterman again. Seriously? I know its naive at times to think we know more then the pros. But just about anyone but McD and Beane saw that Peterman was not a competent QB. He should not be in the NFL. 

 

Nice win today I guess. BUt it does not give me faith or confidence in McBeane team to lead this team onto the next level.  

Please give it time!!!!!! At least until next year!!!

[brianthomas]

They won the game today behind a QB they decided to bring in & that in turn means they dont know what theyre doing? Seems like sound logic.

Enjoy the win... We may not get many of them to enjoy this year

[TH3]

Just now, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

They could have kept McCarron.  He was fine.  In truth, NP outplayed AJM in the preseason, so starting NP was not illogical.  But getting rid of AJM was foolish.  It left no options if NP repeated last year and Allen wasn't ready.  Which is exactly what happened.

 

That said, looks like they finally found a good one so lets ride this for a while.

Barley ain’t that good...look at his history.....

[stuvian]

24 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Here is the negative take on today's win. With how Barkley played, which I would call competent, what does that say about McD and/ Beane?

 

In a way it shows how bad Peterman is. How bad D Anderson, even though better than Peterman is. How not ready Josh Allen is. 

 

Barkley is how AJM could have been or many other competent NFL QB's. Instead they felt Peterman was the best option and then a not ready Allen, then Peterman again and Anderson and Peterman again. Seriously? I know its naive at times to think we know more then the pros. But just about anyone but McD and Beane saw that Peterman was not a competent QB. He should not be in the NFL. 

 

Nice win today I guess. BUt it does not give me faith or confidence in McBeane team to lead this team onto the next level.  

Beane is all about being cheap. Peterman was cheaper than a seasoned vet who could have kept us around .500 while Allen learned. They elected to take a 3rd for AJM which could end up being a great player

[fansince88]

5 minutes ago, TH3 said:

Barley ain’t that good...look at his history.....

If they would have used that logic with Kelly? If they would have used that logic with Peyton? If they would have used that logic with.....the list goes on.  His history is small and you have to look at his surrounding staff. 

[Perry Turtle]

They have screwed this up beyond belief, but if Allen is the guy and plays well for 10-12 years, it won't matter.  

 

Taking so long to stumble their way to Barkley probably cost them a couple of wins this year, but if they cut Peterman and keep Anderson as an Allen mentor, they can pull this thing out for next season.

[stuvian]

Still trying to digest why Barkley can perform credibly on a weeks notice and Anderson couldn't 

[Nihilarian]

3 minutes ago, stuvian said:

Still trying to digest why Barkley can perform credibly on a weeks notice and Anderson couldn't 

He played against a 3-6 Jets team that has basically given up on the season. Only the Raiders are worse at this point.  Also, the Jets had no tape on Barkley as he hasn't played in the NFL since 2016 so their defense didn't know what to expect.

 

On another note it seems that for Buffalo, when it rains it pours! Meaning that when the Bills get the lead they get the run game/pass game working well and it's a win. So far that has only happened 3 times this year vs the 7 losses which were mostly blowouts.

 

Against the Patriots who held a 3 point lead in each of the first three quarters it was a completely different story as the offense couldn't do much except in garbage time. 

 

 

[stuvian]

3 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

He played against a 3-6 Jets team that has basically given up on the season. Only the Raiders are worse at this point.  Also, the Jets had no tape on Barkley as he hasn't played in the NFL since 2016 so their defense didn't know what to expect.

 

On another note it seems that for Buffalo, when it rains it pours! Meaning that when the Bills get the lead they get the run game/pass game working well and it's a win. So far that has only happened 3 times this year vs the 7 losses which were mostly blowouts.

 

Against the Patriots who held a 3 point lead in each of the first three quarters it was a completely different story as the offense couldn't do much except in garbage time. 

 

 

I would not have pegged the Jets as having quit on Bowles but was very surprised by McCowns poor stats. He's seen the Bills enough to be able to game plan

[NoHuddleKelly12]

14 minutes ago, stuvian said:

Still trying to digest why Barkley can perform credibly on a weeks notice and Anderson couldn't 

Part of the issue with DA is his diminished physical skill set—more specifically, his inability to move around in the pocket when pressure comes, which it did early and often when he played. Not his fault, just a symptom of his age and nothing to do with his arm. But a statue taking blunt hits will chip away at performance (even TB12 showed this today) and DA is no exception to the rule. Barkley can still move around back there and I think that was the difference, IMO. Oh, and a strong ground game for a change also helped!

[stuvian]

13 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Part of the issue with DA is his diminished physical skill set—more specifically, his inability to move around in the pocket when pressure comes, which it did early and often when he played. Not his fault, just a symptom of his age and nothing to do with his arm. But a statue taking blunt hits will chip away at performance (even TB12 showed this today) and DA is no exception to the rule. Barkley can still move around back there and I think that was the difference, IMO. Oh, and a strong ground game for a change also helped!

Well expressed 

[Bob in NoCal]

2 hours ago, stuvian said:

Beane is all about being cheap. Peterman was cheaper than a seasoned vet who could have kept us around .500 while Allen learned. They elected to take a 3rd for AJM which could end up being a great player

 I believe they only got a 5th for McCarron.  Strongly feel it was a mistake to let him go leaving only Peterman and JA. 

[Wayne Arnold]

2 hours ago, ngbills said:

Here is the negative take on today's win. With how Barkley played, which I would call competent, what does that say about McD and/ Beane?

 

In a way it shows how bad Peterman is. How bad D Anderson, even though better than Peterman is. How not ready Josh Allen is. 

 

Barkley is how AJM could have been or many other competent NFL QB's. Instead they felt Peterman was the best option and then a not ready Allen, then Peterman again and Anderson and Peterman again. Seriously? I know its naive at times to think we know more then the pros. But just about anyone but McD and Beane saw that Peterman was not a competent QB. He should not be in the NFL. 

 

Nice win today I guess. BUt it does not give me faith or confidence in McBeane team to lead this team onto the next level.  

 

Some people in this world have to piss and moan about absolutely everything.

[gobills1212]

The the OP know what he is doing?

Nope

[Warcodered]

The QBs are playing badly the FO doesn't no what it's doing.

 

The QBS are playing badly the FO really doesn't no what it's doing.

 

This confuses me though I guess if it was easy any schmuck on the internet could do it.

[ngbills]

10 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

The QBs are playing badly the FO doesn't no what it's doing.

 

The QBS are playing badly the FO really doesn't no what it's doing.

 

This confuses me though I guess if it was easy any schmuck on the internet could do it.

 

11 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

The the OP know what he is doing?

Nope

Really? Do you guys really think they did not mis manage the QB position? The evaluation is way off. The planning is way off. There is really no debate here. The debate is whether this is telling of  how they will do long term or if they can make up or correct for the weaknesses they have shown on the offensive side of things. 

[Skins Malone]

Even after a win people complain.  Some of you just wont be happy until McD is fired.  Just enjoy the win!!

 

You take a blow out win and a good performance by a QB and need to spin it for you own agenda 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Skins Malone

[The Process]

9 hours ago, TH3 said:

Barley ain’t that good...look at his history.....

Good thing we don't play games in the past! Do you think the New England board said Hogan is not THAT good ....look at his history. Yeah they probably did.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, stuvian said:

Beane is all about being cheap. Peterman was cheaper than a seasoned vet who could have kept us around .500 while Allen learned. They elected to take a 3rd for AJM which could end up being a great player

 

?Traded AJM for a 2019 5th

 

Typical NFL success rate for 5th round player or later about 5-10%

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

7 hours ago, ngbills said:

 

Really? Do you guys really think they did not mis manage the QB position? The evaluation is way off. The planning is way off. There is really no debate here. The debate is whether this is telling of  how they will do long term or if they can make up or correct for the weaknesses they have shown on the offensive side of things. 

 

 

I really can not say they mismanaged the position - I can say that the series of events that lead to it makes it appear mismanaged.  The fact that we find out that they reached out to DA before even signing AJ means that AJ was never their answer.

 

The fact that they went after a couple of the FA QBs tells me they recognized the situation, but in the end they knew they were drafting a QB and did not want a big chunk money locked into a back-up long term.

 

The fact that they got great value for both AJM and TT and neither is playing shows they recognized that they were not the answers.

 

What we do not know is anything that happened behind closed doors - who and when have they gone after other QBs?  What was AJMs comments when it was obvious he was the third QB on the roster - did he request a trade?  What options were available at each point is important to understanding how it was handled.

 

I do agree that thinking Peterman was the answer was a poorly drawn conclusion and that they really needed address that immediately after the Ravens game when it became obvious he was not the answer, but again if they started contacting guys like DA and he was not ready to sign that has a part in how all of this went down.  In the end - it was not handled well, but I think there is always more to it than just that Beane planned it to be Allen and Peterman. 

[SoTier]

11 hours ago, stuvian said:

Beane is all about being cheap. Peterman was cheaper than a seasoned vet who could have kept us around .500 while Allen learned. They elected to take a 3rd for AJM which could end up being a great player

 

McCarron was traded for a fifth rounder.  That said, exactly how many decent NFL players have McDermott and Beane drafted?   Aside from Tre White, how many of the players drafted by McDermott and/or Beane could start on most NFL teams?    Don't even make the excuse that "they're just first or second year players who need to develop" because good/great players show that early on (as White did).

 

That Barkley -- and even Anderson -- were so much more effective than Allen is very troubling.  These guys never were good when they were employed regularly as NFL QBs.  That Mayfield and Rosen look so competent as rookies, demonstrates how far Allen has to go just to catch up to his peers.

 

9 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Some people in this world have to piss and moan about absolutely everything.

 

^^^

 

8 hours ago, Skins Malone said:

Even after a win people complain.  Some of you just wont be happy until McD is fired.  Just enjoy the win!!

 

You take a blow out win and a good performance by a QB and need to spin it for you own agenda 

 

 

Ah, yes.  We should all be thankful for the small favors of the Vikings and Jests happening to not show up to play, and start fantasizing how the Bills will run the table and squeak into the playoffs, immortalizing McDermott and Beane as deities in the Bills' sorry history.

 

 

[teef]

yup...some people get upset after wins.  it's ok to enjoy a win, even for a few seconds.  it may not mean much moving forward either, but beating the jets is always a good time.

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

McCarron was traded for a fifth rounder.  That said, exactly how many decent NFL players have McDermott and Beane drafted?   Aside from Tre White, how many of the players drafted by McDermott and/or Beane could start on most NFL teams?    Don't even make the excuse that "they're just first or second year players who need to develop" because good/great players show that early on (as White did).

 

That Barkley -- and even Anderson -- were so much more effective than Allen is very troubling.  These guys never were good when they were employed regularly as NFL QBs.  That Mayfield and Rosen look so competent as rookies, demonstrates how far Allen has to go just to catch up to his peers.

 

 

^^^

 

 

Ah, yes.  We should all be thankful for the small favors of the Vikings and Jests happening to not show up to play, and start fantasizing how the Bills will run the table and squeak into the playoffs, immortalizing McDermott and Beane as deities in the Bills' sorry history.

 

 

Just shut up.  For God's sakes just shut up already.  Who else could start?  Milano, Edmunds, Johnson, Jones as a# 3 receiver, Tiller given the poor state of many O lines.  Dawkins.

 

You've reached a new level of pathetic.

[teef]

15 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Just shut up.  For God's sakes just shut up already.  Who else could start?  Milano, Edmunds, Johnson, Jones as a# 3 receiver, Tiller given the poor state of many O lines.  Dawkins.

 

You've reached a new level of pathetic.

the man is wildly miserable.  just let him have it.

[BigBuff423]

9 hours ago, ngbills said:

 

Really? Do you guys really think they did not mis manage the QB position? The evaluation is way off. The planning is way off. There is really no debate here. The debate is whether this is telling of  how they will do long term or if they can make up or correct for the weaknesses they have shown on the offensive side of things. 

 

Beane has admitted he should have signed Derek Anderson or someone like him as soon as AJ was traded. He admitted that but went on to explain their rationale in a WGZ interview, if you're interested. I found it on Twitter, but not sure how to locate it. If you follow Aaron Quinn from The Athletic, he linked it.

 

However, trading AJ after the big comeback in the final Pre-Season game notwithstanding, sometimes we fail to appreciate the decisions made in context. I did not think Peterman would as good as his Pre-Season showed nor did I think he would be THIS bad AFTER having a strong Pre-Season. Honestly, what could the coaches do after they promised the QB that played the best would win the job? We often forget just how good Peterman played in the Pre-Season and to Beane's credit he fully admitted he needed to learn from this. It's not often you'll see a GM admit their mistake so openly and take responsibility for needing to learn from it, but that's what you want. Nobody has all the answers. You can look across the league and see just as many mistakes by great HCs and GMs as their successes. They figure out what works sometimes by seeing what doesn't and then learn from it. 

 

If you're interested in getting a more balanced approach to Beane's viewpoint, I would recommend the article. It's helpful to put things in context. There's no excuse by him or anyone else for not bringing someone else in after AJ was traded, but it does provide context. 

[KennyDavisEyes]

49 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Aside from Tre White, how many of the players drafted by McDermott and/or Beane could start on most NFL teams?

 

 

 

If you honestly believe this hogwash then you’re a poor evaluator of the game of football.

[Soda Popinski]

Kind of heavy handed to question them after a 31 point win where the offense fired on all cylinders and even the LT caught a touchdown pass. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

We won’t know the answer to that question until Josh Allen becomes our starter.

 

So far, no they don’t know what they are doing. 

 

 

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

Beane has admitted he should have signed Derek Anderson or someone like him as soon as AJ was traded. He admitted that but went on to explain their rationale in a WGZ interview, if you're interested. I found it on Twitter, but not sure how to locate it. If you follow Aaron Quinn from The Athletic, he linked it.

 

However, trading AJ after the big comeback in the final Pre-Season game notwithstanding, sometimes we fail to appreciate the decisions made in context. I did not think Peterman would as good as his Pre-Season showed nor did I think he would be THIS bad AFTER having a strong Pre-Season. Honestly, what could the coaches do after they promised the QB that played the best would win the job? We often forget just how good Peterman played in the Pre-Season and to Beane's credit he fully admitted he needed to learn from this. It's not often you'll see a GM admit their mistake so openly and take responsibility for needing to learn from it, but that's what you want. Nobody has all the answers. You can look across the league and see just as many mistakes by great HCs and GMs as their successes. They figure out what works sometimes by seeing what doesn't and then learn from it. 

 

If you're interested in getting a more balanced approach to Beane's viewpoint, I would recommend the article. It's helpful to put things in context. There's no excuse by him or anyone else for not bringing someone else in after AJ was traded, but it does provide context. 

This is a second year in the NFL HC and a rookie GM. They are going to make a lot of mistakes during their learning curve to build a playoff team. Still, this team is 3-7 and not going anywhere this year. 

 

That said, everything will depend on what they do next offseason after they learned what they learned this year about the offensive line, the offensive coaching staff, the receiver corps. Building a top quality line to protect that #7 overall pick at QB and build a power run game to help support him. I'm hoping the offensive coaching staff changes as this staff only knows how to call the right players when the team has the lead. 3 out of 7 so far! 

 

Provided of course that the owners keep the status quo. 

[Bob in NoCal]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Just shut up.  For God's sakes just shut up already.  Who else could start?  Milano, Edmunds, Johnson, Jones as a# 3 receiver, Tiller given the poor state of many O lines.  Dawkins.

 

You've reached a new level of pathetic.

The "ignore" function is a great stress preventer. 

[Rebel101]

13 hours ago, stuvian said:

Still trying to digest why Barkley can perform credibly on a weeks notice and Anderson couldn't 

Anderson is like 50 years old lol and he didn’t sign up for playing. He thought he was a mentor. Barkley was hungry and he played that way. He hasn’t been on a team since preseason he got a chance and took it. Barkley coming out of college had all the tools. The only thing he lacked was a big arm and that’s why he has never been anything but a back up. But he studied his ass off and you have to condemn him on his effort and his will to get back on an NFL roster.