THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Bills Fans in the Dumps

[Shaw66]

Bills Fans in the Dumps

 

Bills fans are now resigned to total failure.  I don’t remember it ever being like this.   I’m sure it has been like this before, but I’ve never seen it up close and personal.

 

I was there in the late 60s, when the Bills got really bad, really fast, but that was only a few years after having been on the very top, and the frustration was the frustration of spoiled fans.   Plus, after a couple of years of more or less horrible football, the Bills got OJ, and things were looking up.

 

I didn’t live in Buffalo and didn’t come home for games in the early 80s, so I really don’t know how bad those days were.   I’m sure they weren’t pretty.

 

I’ve never seen it like Monday night at New Era with the Patriots on tap.   It’s usually fun, standing in the crowd with people inching toward the security check point, people joking and laughing, talking about how the Bills are going to beat this team or how they match up against that team.  Buffalo cheers.  Joshing with the fans wearing visiting team gear. 

 

Not Monday night.   It was, very clearly, Bills fans being loyal to their team – “I’m here, aren’t I?” – but it also was, very clearly, Bills fans going to an execution, their own execution.   Bills fans knew their offense wouldn’t score, and they knew the Patriots offense would.

 

Sitting in the second deck during pregame, no one talked about how the Bills would do, strategies we hoped to see, how the Bills could win.  No one talked about it because no one believed it was possible.   Everyone knew the Pats would win.   All we could hope was that the Bills would hold the Pats under 40.   “Please don’t let them score 50. Not on Monday night football.   Please.” 

 

I’ve never seen the stadium like that before.

 

And yet, despite all of that, with the Patriots at the line of scrimmage for their first play of the game, there the fans were, the entire lower bowl of the stadium standing, the place absolutely rocking with noise.   Loud as possible in the face of their own execution, defiant to the end.  And it was like that for a lot of the game.  It was hopeless, and we were there behind the team like they were about to clinch home field throughout the playoffs.   It was magnificent.   I was proud to be a Bills fan.

 

Then, of course, there was the game itself.  I was ready to declare a moral victory.  The Bills defense was solid; Brady was stymied almost all the way, Gronk was invisible (almost), White shut down Gordon, Edmunds made some stellar plays.   For a loss, for it actually was satisfying most of the game.  Then Edmunds got knocked out.  Then Anderson showed why he was out of the league.  

 

When it was all said and done, the Bills had lost, and the Bills prospects for the coming weeks had somehow gotten even worse than they’d been for the past few weeks.   How could that be? 

 

I’m worried about Edmunds.  I’ve been complaining for weeks about his tackling, and Monday night he was better.  He displayed his spectacular range, closing on backs and receivers alike, and he made actual tackles with his shoulders, wrapping up the ball carrier with his arms and taking him down.  And then it happened, a real honest-to-goodness NFL big-time hit.  I had wanted him to hit someone, really hit him, and there it was.  BANG!  And Edmunds didn’t get up. 

 

I feel bad that he has a concussion.  I worry that it may be only the first of several.  I worry about his durability.   I tell myself that Keuchle has had that problem, but he’s back, as good as ever.   I hope for the best for him, as a young man, and as the Bills middle linebacker.

 

It was an exciting game, until it got out of control.   Close games are exciting.   It was old-time Bills football – we may not score much, but you sure as all get out aren’t going to score, either.   You know the Patriots wanted to pull ahead and put the game away, but they couldn’t.  The Bills defense was that good.    

 

I’ve been reluctant to get on the Milano train, but I’m there now.  The guy just makes plays.  Covers ground, hits people.  When he and Edmunds are running around back there in pass coverage, they are a problem for QBs.  I think he surprised Brady a couple of times with his cover skills.  

 

What surprised me is the Bills’ passing game.  It was, in a word, passable.  Yes there were some garbage-time completions, but the Bills actually hurt the Pats sometimes with the pass.   They should have thrown more earlier in the game. 

 

Zay Jones looks like a real NFL receiver.   He runs crisp routes.  He has pro hands.   He just looks different from his rookie year. 

 

Second, Kelvin Benjamin continues to make plays.   Some stupid plays, yes, but he’s running nice routes and catching the ball, at least some of the time. 

 

Even better, these guys and Clay and Cam Phillips and Andre Holmes are running routes downfield, and they’re getting open!   Derek Anderson was finding them downfield and making throws, and receivers were catching it.  Except Benjamin, sometimes, and Croom on the critical TD drop. 

 

A measure of how well the passing game was working is Anderson’s passer rating.  IF Croom catches the TD and IF Anderson doesn’t throw the pick six, Anderson’s passer rating would have been 92.7.   If’s don’t win ball games, but a passer rating in the 90s, especially with 39 pass attempts, means that the ball is getting downfield and receivers are catching it.  It’s what I’ve been waiting to see.

 

Of course, the passing game can be only passable when your journeyman backup QB plays like a rookie.  Anderson has 49 career starts.   He’s supposed to see McCourty in underneath coverage on the pick six.  Earlier, he was supposed to see not one but TWO defenders in position to intercept his throw to Clay in the right flat, another pick six but for the Pats’ inability to catch.  Earlier still, he was sacked and fumbled when he should have gotten out of the pocket. 

 

Buffalo needs a better quarterback.  Buffalo has one; he has a sore elbow.  He’s bigger, escapes better, throws better and has shown few tendencies toward typical rookie turnovers.   There’s hope for the passing game. 

 

I continue to be concerned about the coaching.  Kudos for innovating and going with the McCoy wildcat, but there was a lot of confusion in evidence on those plays.   If your players don’t understand the offense, why not?  And if they don’t understand, why run it?   On multiple other plays, there was confusion about who should be on the field and should be off.   That shouldn’t be happening at this time in the season. 

 

But I can’t complain too much about the coaching.   Unlike last week, the Bills came ready to play, and that means the coaches did their jobs. 

 

Remarkably, there was hope and even excitement in New Era in the fourth quarter.  The offense had shown some signs of life, and even after Brady finally managed to get his team into the end zone, a miracle seemed possible.   Then McCourty made his play, and the fans headed for the parking lots.   How’d they feel?   I don’t know how they felt.   I felt like, unlike in the movies, the last minute pardon from the Governor didn’t arrive, and I’d been executed as planned, on schedule. 

 

Is there hope?  For the long term, sure.  I like Josh Allen, and I’m ready for his return.  Is there hope without him on Sunday?  Well, it’s the Bears, and there’s always hope against the Bears.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

[transplantbillsfan]

It was a moral victory.

 

I hate to say it, but it was.

 

Our defense is Elite. It's absolutely incredible. 

 

Kyle and Lorax have, very simply, found the fountain of youth. I thought this was obviously both of their last season's in Buffalo. Now I'm wondering why it would be.

 

Hughes should be retained once his contract is up. He's a beast.

 

3/4ths of our secondary is Elite, and White is just a revelation.

 

I've been on the Edmunds train since we drafted him and he's made some rookie mistakes, but he's been a lot more really good than bad.

 

Why haven't you liked Milano? He might be the 2nd best player on our team right now. He's just been spectacular since he took the field last year.

 

Our Defense must be so damn frustrated.

 

What would there be on offense to make us remotely happy?

 

Zay Jones finally looks like the WR we drafted... he's actually catching the friggin ball and can move a bit.

 

Ivory should be running more than Shady, not because Shady has lost a step--I don't think he has and I'm not about to get rid of him--but because our OL sucks and Ivory is a strong and decisive runner.

 

Benjamin did a little something... along with a little something stupid.

 

I wish Allen were healthy. I want him to play and take his lumps and learn. With him playing, I'd be okay with the Ls. 

 

Last night was almost typical Bills vs Patriots formula... Bills stay close enough for 2 or 3 quarters to be competitive; often through unconventional methods. 

 

Final score is lopsided.

 

Now Peterman starts. I'm more worried for Peterman the person than Bills fans getting an L. 

 

Every remaining game--except the Patriots in Foxboro--is actually winnable... even for this team.

 

This sucks. But I'm still rooting for this team. I just wish they'd give us something to root for.

 

And I want Allen back.

[GETTOTHE50]

god we deserve so much better from the offense. 

 

 

[downunderbill]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

It was a moral victory.

 

I hate to say it, but it was.

 

Our defense is Elite. It's absolutely incredible. 

 

Kyle and Lorax have, very simply, found the fountain of youth. I thought this was obviously both of their last season's in Buffalo. Now I'm wondering why it would be.

 

Hughes should be retained once his contract is up. He's a beast.

 

3/4ths of our secondary is Elite, and White is just a revelation.

 

I've been on the Edmunds train since we drafted him and he's made some rookie mistakes, but he's been a lot more really good than bad.

 

Why haven't you liked Milano? He might be the 2nd best player on our team right now. He's just been spectacular since he took the field last year.

 

Our Defense must be so damn frustrated.

 

What would there be on offense to make us remotely happy?

 

Zay Jones finally looks like the WR we drafted... he's actually catching the friggin ball and can move a bit.

 

Ivory should be running more than Shady, not because Shady has lost a step--I don't think he has and I'm not about to get rid of him--but because our OL sucks and Ivory is a strong and decisive runner.

 

Benjamin did a little something... along with a little something stupid.

 

I wish Allen were healthy. I want him to play and take his lumps and learn. With him playing, I'd be okay with the Ls. 

 

Last night was almost typical Bills vs Patriots formula... Bills stay close enough for 2 or 3 quarters to be competitive; often through unconventional methods. 

 

Final score is lopsided.

 

Now Peterman starts. I'm more worried for Peterman the person than Bills fans getting an L. 

 

Every remaining game--except the Patriots in Foxboro--is actually winnable... even for this team.

 

This sucks. But I'm still rooting for this team. I just wish they'd give us something to root for.

 

And I want Allen back.

 

Agree 100% with all of it.

[oldmanfan]

Good stuff as always Shaw.  Couple things.  One, don't worry about Edmunds.  It was a big hit and he got helmet to helmet on the guy.  That will cause a concussion in anyone.  Second,  we have a problem at QB of course, but not much can be done right now.  Anderson made some plays but also made mistakes, which is why journeyman QBs are called journeyman QBs.  Wouldn't make a difference what name you put on the guy, Anderson, Sanchez, Barkely, Moore, that is what happens when you start reaching down into the bottom of the barrel because of injuries to your starting QB.  Backup QBs just don't do much in the league. 

[SoCal Deek]

Shaw, I was super proud of the fans and my old home town. There were no bags on heads or boos from that crowd Monday night. On the other hand, the team is a mess! Yes, you can find a bright spot or two; anyone can. But overall this is a lost season. And, with the exception of a few young players who’re getting invaluable experience (unfortunately now both Allen and Edmunds are out) I see little here going forward but holding your nose and praying we eventually reach the surface so we can all breath again.

Go Bills?

[Buddy Hix]

I agree about being proud of this fan base. What other fans support a garbage product for decades on end with such enthusiasm? None that I can think of.

 

I unfortunately don’t share your hope about this team under McBeane. This regime is well past its expiry date with its “tough D and solid run game” mentality, it’s 2018 and McBeane’s philosophy is to try and win games like it’s 1998. Two more years of this crap...ugh.

[vorpma]

7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

It was a moral victory.

 

I hate to say it, but it was.

 

Our defense is Elite. It's absolutely incredible. 

 

Kyle and Lorax have, very simply, found the fountain of youth. I thought this was obviously both of their last season's in Buffalo. Now I'm wondering why it would be.

 

Hughes should be retained once his contract is up. He's a beast.

 

3/4ths of our secondary is Elite, and White is just a revelation.

 

I've been on the Edmunds train since we drafted him and he's made some rookie mistakes, but he's been a lot more really good than bad.

 

Why haven't you liked Milano? He might be the 2nd best player on our team right now. He's just been spectacular since he took the field last year.

 

Our Defense must be so damn frustrated.

 

What would there be on offense to make us remotely happy?

 

Zay Jones finally looks like the WR we drafted... he's actually catching the friggin ball and can move a bit.

 

Ivory should be running more than Shady, not because Shady has lost a step--I don't think he has and I'm not about to get rid of him--but because our OL sucks and Ivory is a strong and decisive runner.

 

Benjamin did a little something... along with a little something stupid.

 

I wish Allen were healthy. I want him to play and take his lumps and learn. With him playing, I'd be okay with the Ls. 

 

Last night was almost typical Bills vs Patriots formula... Bills stay close enough for 2 or 3 quarters to be competitive; often through unconventional methods. 

 

Final score is lopsided.

 

Now Peterman starts. I'm more worried for Peterman the person than Bills fans getting an L. 

 

Every remaining game--except the Patriots in Foxboro--is actually winnable... even for this team.

 

This sucks. But I'm still rooting for this team. I just wish they'd give us something to root for.

 

And I want Allen back.

Best post in a long time, thanks! TBD needs adult input bad!

[JMF2006]

When Peterman ran out late in the 4th there was a very loud cheer from the crowd.

 

I said to my friend after the pick six that Peterman needs to go in now to get some time and save Anderson from an inevitable beating.

 

Well Andy is  hurt and Peterman is the starter....good luck Nate your going to need it. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by JMF2006

[Jerome007]

1 hour ago, downunderbill said:

 

Agree 100% with all of it.

Count me in as well, at 95%. I don't consider this a moral victory. Because of the end. Edmund lost, Anderson lost, the TD turning into a pick-6. The Bills had a chance, a small one, but they had one.

 

Which in a way it is positive as contrary to doomsday scenarios, the difference between winning and losing are a few things here and there. Imagine just one better OLineman and 2 good WRs from free agency (they have the cap space next year!) and draft picks, some better player chemistry, some better playcalling, and boom, the Bills can be a winning team. Those that want to pout, recall they made the playoffs last year and now look like bottom feeders. And many teams have had quick turn arounds - and sometimes up and down like the Raiders. Problem is the good players like Shady, Ivory, Kyle, Lorax could be gone...

 

As for the original post, I have noticed that too. As for me, first time I have lost so much of my fire. Not with apathy but simply accepting the losses this year. Writing this as a season to prepare the future - with Allen and maybe Edmund not even playing grrrrrr. I imagine how hard it can for the vets not to feel the same thing and for the coaches to maintain morale.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Jerome007

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Defense is not elite. 

 

No HOFers, so they don't get to go into that class. 

 

They are not the Seahawks of 2013 or the Broncos of 2016. Those rosters had HOF defensive players. 

 

The Bills are a good defense, Top 10. 

 

But we've seen this forever in this league. It is hard to count on shutdown defense as the key/central cog in your football machine year in and year out. Look at the Jaguars this year, or where the Broncos have regressed to in 2 years. A couple players here or there, a FA loss or two, a retirement, and you start to slip immediately. 

 

This offense is the worst in over 30 years of data. 30+ years worth of teams, this offense is the worst. Before the Pats game, 53.2% less efficient than the AVERAGE NFL offense. 

 

Bills fans being labeled as spoiled on here, or impatient or Millennial is insulting. 

 

You have a Coach who talks down to the fans and media every chance he gets. 

 

He's now 11-13 and starting Nate Peterman again this week, not that if Derek Anderson gets cleared he has shown anything better, now 6 TO's in 2 games. 

 

[CLTbills]

I live in Charlotte. I can't believe how many people said to me yesterday morning, "Holy crap Bills fans are crazy. I can't believe how loud that place sounded on TV!"

 

Made me proud ??

[Jerome007]

34 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

I live in Charlotte. I can't believe how many people said to me yesterday morning, "Holy crap Bills fans are crazy. I can't believe how loud that place sounded on TV!"

 

Made me proud ??

The pregame with the crazy fans, seeing Berman interviewing Kelly, Thomas, then Bruce on the show, it was just awesome.

[Bring it]

Nice write up. They came to play and the defense was stellar! Missed a couple of big plays that could have swung the momentum but they were great to watch! Loving the direction of this defense. They look to be a beast for years to come once the young players develop and more are added.

Looked to me that Edmunds came in with his head down on that concussion hit. Only saw the replay once but that’s what it looked like to me! Hope it’s not a recurring problem!!

 

Do you think we win that game with Josh Allen at Qb?? Can’t answer with certainty; just asking for your thoughts?

56 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Defense is not elite. 

 

No HOFers, so they don't get to go into that class. 

 

They are not the Seahawks of 2013 or the Broncos of 2016. Those rosters had HOF defensive players. 

 

The Bills are a good defense, Top 10. 

 

But we've seen this forever in this league. It is hard to count on shutdown defense as the key/central cog in your football machine year in and year out. Look at the Jaguars this year, or where the Broncos have regressed to in 2 years. A couple players here or there, a FA loss or two, a retirement, and you start to slip immediately. 

 

This offense is the worst in over 30 years of data. 30+ years worth of teams, this offense is the worst. Before the Pats game, 53.2% less efficient than the AVERAGE NFL offense. 

 

Bills fans being labeled as spoiled on here, or impatient or Millennial is insulting. 

 

You have a Coach who talks down to the fans and media every chance he gets. 

 

He's now 11-13 and starting Nate Peterman again this week, not that if Derek Anderson gets cleared he has shown anything better, now 6 TO's in 2 games. 

 

Hof.ers take time. I don’t know that you can identify that in their first 2 years. White and Edmunds have elite talent at least so far.

This defense isn’t as good as its going to be!!

[freddyjj]

Shaw as always solid analysis and opinion!  You missed your calling laddie!

 

I tend to watch the game and key on the trenches. 

 

Our D looked fast and got penetration vs their OLine most of the day.  No problem with our front 7 vs NE O Line/TE's.

 

In pass pro, It appeared we had a 2 TE formation over their DE Flowers a few times and he just beat them routinely.  And on his only play, Marcus Murphy missed his blitz pickup on 53 and our 35 yr old QB got concussed.  Other than those blatant breakdowns the O Line generally gave Anderson time for some downfield throws.

 

When asked to run block, our OL has not demonstrated the ability to run power plays as no push on stay at home blocker and the OGs and C are too slow to pull and get to the end or 2nd level target.  Was amazed at how fast Dion Dawkins ran trying to make tackle on the pick 6 - go big fella!  Might want to draft an LT in Rd 1 next year and move Dawkins to LG where he would shine.

Edited October 31, 2018 by freddyjj

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I like the Bills defense a lot but I dropped them from my FFL team because I believe losing is contagious. They would be a top 5 FFL defense even with a below average offense but how bad the offense is right now is beyond comprehension.

[Uncle Joe]

8 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

When asked to run block, our OL has not demonstrated the ability to run power plays as no push on stay at home blocker and the OGs nad C are too slow to pull and get to the end or 2nd level target.  Was amazed at how fast Dion Dawkins ran trying to make tackle on the pick 6 - go big fella!  Might want to draft an LT in Rd 1 next year and move Dawkins to LG where he would shine.

 

Thanks for confirming this. I don't watch the trenches enough and don't watch after game analysis but suspected as much. I knew RI was good at pulling but didn't think Ducasse or Miller (or Bodine) had the agility. Hopefully next year we can get some interior lineman that can help with the run game.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Uncle Joe

[Commish]

4 hours ago, vorpma said:

Best post in a long time, thanks! TBD needs adult input bad!

Plus 1 - one of few posts worth reading every week in a sea of crap.

[Success]

These are long seasons - and I agree with those who identify this one as particularly taxing.  It’s over earlier than usual, and beyond that, even previous poor seasons have at least provided a more competitive team, and fewer blowouts.

 

I saw a Pats fan on twitter call their win “annoying.”  I presume because it didn’t have the usual style points.  What a different world they live in.

 

Allen gives me hope.  I feel like we finally ditched the idea of taking half measures to find a QB, and went all in in the NFL’s most important position.  I think he has the intangibles to lead us out of this wasteland.

[Shaw66]

12 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

It was a moral victory.

 

I hate to say it, but it was.

 

Our defense is Elite. It's absolutely incredible. 

 

Kyle and Lorax have, very simply, found the fountain of youth. I thought this was obviously both of their last season's in Buffalo. Now I'm wondering why it would be.

 

Hughes should be retained once his contract is up. He's a beast.

 

3/4ths of our secondary is Elite, and White is just a revelation.

 

I've been on the Edmunds train since we drafted him and he's made some rookie mistakes, but he's been a lot more really good than bad.

 

Why haven't you liked Milano? He might be the 2nd best player on our team right now. He's just been spectacular since he took the field last year.

 

Our Defense must be so damn frustrated.

 

What would there be on offense to make us remotely happy?

 

Zay Jones finally looks like the WR we drafted... he's actually catching the friggin ball and can move a bit.

 

Ivory should be running more than Shady, not because Shady has lost a step--I don't think he has and I'm not about to get rid of him--but because our OL sucks and Ivory is a strong and decisive runner.

 

Benjamin did a little something... along with a little something stupid.

 

I wish Allen were healthy. I want him to play and take his lumps and learn. With him playing, I'd be okay with the Ls. 

 

Last night was almost typical Bills vs Patriots formula... Bills stay close enough for 2 or 3 quarters to be competitive; often through unconventional methods. 

 

Final score is lopsided.

 

Now Peterman starts. I'm more worried for Peterman the person than Bills fans getting an L. 

 

Every remaining game--except the Patriots in Foxboro--is actually winnable... even for this team.

 

This sucks. But I'm still rooting for this team. I just wish they'd give us something to root for.

 

And I want Allen back.

Well, there are a lot of ways to argue with this, but I think you're saying generally what I feel.  I'm unhappy that this team can't win, I'm unhappy that the offense seems to be hopeless, but I'm not jumping ship.   I like a lot of pieces that I see, and I'm willing to wait.  

[billspro]

At this point I’m focused on next year. I would like to offence to at least show some average play down the stretch. I’m not sure if Daboll is an issue, he seems to call resonable plays, it is probably more talent issue. I really like the Pryor signing, we at least have three number 3 WRs now. Hopefully by the time Allen gets back every is playing better and we can see Allen grow.

5 hours ago, Uncle Joe said:

 

Thanks for confirming this. I don't watch the trenches enough and don't watch after game analysis but suspected as much. I knew RI was good at pulling but didn't think Ducasse or Miller (or Bodine) had the agility. Hopefully next year we can get some interior lineman that can help with the run game.

 

This oline seems very limited in what they can do. Probably a big reason we have had trouble getting McCoy going.

6 hours ago, CLTbills said:

I live in Charlotte. I can't believe how many people said to me yesterday morning, "Holy crap Bills fans are crazy. I can't believe how loud that place sounded on TV!"

 

Made me proud ??

 

There is no other fan base that shows up like that with such a terrible team. I wonder what we would sound like with a good team?

[LABILLBACKER]

Bills fans are a rare and resilient breed. Their passion for this team will never die out, no matter how bad we may be. Breaks my heart to see this defense get such little support from the offense. My gut says Josh might not be the answer,  hope I'm wrong.  This upcoming offseason will either make or break McD & Beane. If they don't get Allen weapons, they'll both be gone.

[ctk232]

6 hours ago, Bring it said:

Nice write up. They came to play and the defense was stellar! Missed a couple of big plays that could have swung the momentum but they were great to watch! Loving the direction of this defense. They look to be a beast for years to come once the young players develop and more are added.

Looked to me that Edmunds came in with his head down on that concussion hit. Only saw the replay once but that’s what it looked like to me! Hope it’s not a recurring problem!!

 

Do you think we win that game with Josh Allen at Qb?? Can’t answer with certainty; just asking for your thoughts?

Hof.ers take time. I don’t know that you can identify that in their first 2 years. White and Edmunds have elite talent at least so far.

This defense isn’t as good as its going to be!!

I was wondering that myself - I don't believe the outcome changes much, score wise. I do think we see more sacks, however from Allen holding on to the ball too long as Anderson's decisiveness (at times) was a marked difference from the 3-5 seconds minimum that Allen typically takes during certain pass concepts. However, Anderson did make decisions that regardless of how "veteran" he is, he won't be any better than he was, only worse. I'm not sure if we see more/less/same amount of INTs (I'm including the dropped pick six as we all thought that was coming until he dropped it). But I do think we see Allen extending certain plays with his legs - Pats played more coverage not expecting Anderson to scramble, I mean who would, but I think Allen has a good game overall. 

 

The Pats don't have a great defense this year by any measure, and I would have liked to have seen not just how Allen does at home against a division rival, but more importantly, against a team that doesn't have a top offense in the league. Mostly just to see the disparity in Allen's performance vs a top 10 defense and vs a bottom 10 defense and have better data to evaluate his growth thus far.

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, Bring it said:

 

 

Do you think we win that game with Josh Allen at Qb?? Can’t answer with certainty; just asking for your thoughts?

 

Clearly nobody knows.  But i honestly dont think Allen throws that INT.  And Allen's running would have been a factor.  

 

On the other hand, Belichick would have game planned differently and might have seriously confused Allen. 

 

 

I hope he's back soon so his education can continue.  Look at how much Zay has progresswd from year one to year two.  His time on the field last season made this season possible.  Allen needs time on the field. 

[JMF2006]

7 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

The pregame with the crazy fans, seeing Berman interviewing Kelly, Thomas, then Bruce on the show, it was just awesome.

 

My Buddy Terry and I were there in Lot 4 for most of it  

[Helpmenow]

Shaw66, the 80’s were worse. Thirty thousand in the stands and limited stars.

i knew somebody who had seasons on the visitors 45 13 rows up. Couldn’t give em away.

9 hours ago, CLTbills said:

I live in Charlotte. I can't believe how many people said to me yesterday morning, "Holy crap Bills fans are crazy. I can't believe how loud that place sounded on TV!"

 

Made me proud ??

They used to come to games late and if you stood up at panthers game they would get pissed.

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, Helpmenow said:

Shaw66, the 80’s were worse. Thirty thousand in the stands and limited stars.

i knew somebody who had seasons on the visitors 45 13 rows up. Couldn’t give em away.

 

Yeah, I was a Bills Fan from a distance in that era and it was easy to be disengaged.  No hope then, I guess.  I remember how energized I got when Bruce and Kelly and Biscuit showed up.  Wow!  Real players!  

[Helpmenow]

It was brutal, fans voted with their feet. Ralph got the message. Fans now party like crazy. I went for the game not what they do out there now

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Helpmenow said:

It was brutal, fans voted with their feet. Ralph got the message. Fans now party like crazy. I went for the game not what they do out there now

Did the fans leaving in the mid 80s cause Ralph to open his wallet?

[Helpmenow]

Sure did,  we sat near him on the visitors side. He had his window open. 

If Pegula didn’t fill the house he might make drastic changes.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

17 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

3/4ths of our secondary is Elite, and White is just a revelation.

 

Some people here don't realize that Tre is our best defensive player and a lockdown corner, and that's sad. I will stand by my statement that he is the second best CB in Bills history after Butch Byrd. He proves his worth every game.

[Helpmenow]

Just now, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Some people here don't realize that Tre is our best defensive player and a lockdown corner, and that's sad. I will stand by my statement that he is the second best CB in Bills history after Butch Byrd. He proves his worth every game.

No that would Robert James 

Robert James was the best cornerback with the Bills. 

[Buddo]

There were some signs of life in the Offense, well, the passing part of it, anyway. The D played its guts out, and the Pats had to work for everything they got, except the pick 6.

 

The trouble is, offensively, the Vikings game aside, there's been no sense that the Bills could put drives together consistently. They probably did just enough in terms of getting a couple of first downs here and there, to keep the D fresh enough to keep competing, but you pretty much expected it to fizzle out at any time.

 

I'd like to see them stick both Shady and Ivory out there regularly, with one of them splitting out wide often. I believe that could keep a defender out of the box, and give either of them more chance to make a play. As a DC, I wouldn't want either of them getting the football in space, as Shady will make the first defender miss, and Ivory will probably just run over them. As our TEs are not exactly great outlets, it could serve a purpose as a useful dump off, as well.

 

Having said that, we still have a poor O-Line, which ultimately got Anderson killed. While I want Allen back, I think with our line, we're a bit in between the devil and the deep blue sea, with the possibility of our QB getting crocked at any time, and it's a major concern.

 

As to the future, well, I'm very much in 'wait and see' mode. I have full confidence in McDermott in respect of putting out a good D, but the jury is definitely out as regards offense.

 

I dislike binning McCarron for a scruffy 5th round pick, not so much because McCarron would have saved the season (I'm sure he wouldn't), but because when they did, they didn't get someone else in to back up Peterman, and keep Allen out of it. Contingency planning was non-existent, when it should have been a priority.

 

I'm also not too struck on their QB evaluation skills, that ended up with Peterman as the starter. Not because Peterman didn't win the TC competition, as he clearly did, but that they didn't seem worried at all about the fact that he hadn't started but one game, and that was a disaster.

 

Chan Gailey always emphasized the fact that true NFL games were a whole different kettle of fish to pre-season or TC. It's the reason he cut Edwards after two miserable outings as starter.  At the time I thought it was pretty brutal, yet it was also absolutely the right decision. Thing is, we had 3 QBs on the roster, so had the freedom to do it. How does the expression go?  - 'Don't paint yourself into a corner', yet the FO did just that by not getting another QB in.

 

We desperately need to find ways of moving the chains with more regularity, while also keeping whichever poor soul who ends up under center, upright. If it's Allen, I hope the word is to keep anyone off of him at all cost, including penalties.

 

Excuse some of the ramblings, but thanks for a good post as usual Shaw, and fwiw, the fans souded incredible throughout, even watching it on the box.

 

 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Helpmenow said:

No that would Robert James 

Robert James was the best cornerback with the Bills. 

 

So....

 

Robert James had 9 INTs in his career, which was 6 years long.

 

Butch Byrd had 7 INTs in ONE SEASON on his way to 40 career INTs... in 8 years in his Second All-AFL Team career.

 

Tre'Davious White only has 5 more INTs to match Robert James over the next 3 1/2 years...

 

Nope.

Edited November 1, 2018 by EasternOHBillsFan

[stuvian]

the defense really played with passion. I could see fear in Tom Brady's eyes for the first ever against us. We shut down Gronk for the better part of the game. GRONK!

 

Trotting out a veteran QB on one week's notice is a fools errand. We should have had a true vet like Anderson in camp in July. If we had done these games wouldn't be lost causes.

Instead we trot our Peterson so that Beane can "recoup value" on his late round pick. Unfortunately I can't "recoup value" on my season tickets with these guaranteed loss games. If Beane loves Peterson so much he could have stashed him on the practice squad where he belongs.

 

We could have had the likes of Anderson or Matt Bradley both mentoring Allen and being ready to take over in case of injury. These games could have meant something. With our D and Shady and average QB play we are back in the wild card. 

 

Didn't the locker room revolt over the prospect of trotting out Peterman recently? Yet here we are again wasting what is probably Kyle and Shady's last years with the team. 

 

I'm perfectly willing to suffer through Allen's growth but we shouldn't have to throw the season away to do it. Sometimes these vets have a resurgence like Case Keenum, Fitz and Rich Gannon but to do so they have to be in camp long enough to gel with the team and learn the playbook. Instead we're making desperation moves at the 11th hour which everyone knows won't work. 

[Helpmenow]

9 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

So....

 

Robert James had 9 INTs in his career, which was 6 years long.

 

Butch Byrd had 7 INTs in ONE SEASON on his way to 40 career INTs... in 8 years in his Second All-AFL Team career.

 

Tre'Davious White only has 5 more INTs to match Robert James over the next 3 1/2 years...

 

Nope.

Look up his all pro stats not his interception. Then tell me .

Nobody threw at him, how can he get interceptions. His was the best. DId you see him play?

[CodeMonkey]

Very well written.  I'm still not sure how much of the Pats not scoring was the Bills D versus the Pats apathy.  Having watched Brady [far too] many times over the years, you get used to how he acts.  Historically when the Pats O is as lackluster, under-performing, and ineffective as they were on Monday, you see Brady pissed off.  Slamming his helmet down on the bench, getting in peoples faces on the sidelines, and generally being a huge dick (no ***** pun intended  ).  I saw absolutely none of that on Monday ... zero.  Just going through the motions understanding there was no doubt they were going to win.  The only real emotion I saw from Brady was after the pick 6.  I think the Bills D held up their end of the bargain Monday to say the least, as they have the majority of the season so far.  But I'm not willing to say the Bills D was the entire or even the main reason for the Pats offensive lack of production.

[Shaw66]

23 hours ago, Buddo said:

There were some signs of life in the Offense, well, the passing part of it, anyway. The D played its guts out, and the Pats had to work for everything they got, except the pick 6.

 

The trouble is, offensively, the Vikings game aside, there's been no sense that the Bills could put drives together consistently. They probably did just enough in terms of getting a couple of first downs here and there, to keep the D fresh enough to keep competing, but you pretty much expected it to fizzle out at any time.

 

I'd like to see them stick both Shady and Ivory out there regularly, with one of them splitting out wide often. I believe that could keep a defender out of the box, and give either of them more chance to make a play. As a DC, I wouldn't want either of them getting the football in space, as Shady will make the first defender miss, and Ivory will probably just run over them. As our TEs are not exactly great outlets, it could serve a purpose as a useful dump off, as well.

 

Having said that, we still have a poor O-Line, which ultimately got Anderson killed. While I want Allen back, I think with our line, we're a bit in between the devil and the deep blue sea, with the possibility of our QB getting crocked at any time, and it's a major concern.

 

As to the future, well, I'm very much in 'wait and see' mode. I have full confidence in McDermott in respect of putting out a good D, but the jury is definitely out as regards offense.

 

I dislike binning McCarron for a scruffy 5th round pick, not so much because McCarron would have saved the season (I'm sure he wouldn't), but because when they did, they didn't get someone else in to back up Peterman, and keep Allen out of it. Contingency planning was non-existent, when it should have been a priority.

 

I'm also not too struck on their QB evaluation skills, that ended up with Peterman as the starter. Not because Peterman didn't win the TC competition, as he clearly did, but that they didn't seem worried at all about the fact that he hadn't started but one game, and that was a disaster.

 

Chan Gailey always emphasized the fact that true NFL games were a whole different kettle of fish to pre-season or TC. It's the reason he cut Edwards after two miserable outings as starter.  At the time I thought it was pretty brutal, yet it was also absolutely the right decision. Thing is, we had 3 QBs on the roster, so had the freedom to do it. How does the expression go?  - 'Don't paint yourself into a corner', yet the FO did just that by not getting another QB in.

 

We desperately need to find ways of moving the chains with more regularity, while also keeping whichever poor soul who ends up under center, upright. If it's Allen, I hope the word is to keep anyone off of him at all cost, including penalties.

 

Excuse some of the ramblings, but thanks for a good post as usual Shaw, and fwiw, the fans souded incredible throughout, even watching it on the box.

 

 

Buddo -

 

This isn't so much a criticism of you as it is just how I feel about all this discussion of the QB situation.

 

I am a fan for the games.   Although I engage in discussions about whom to draft and what free agents to sign, whether the coach ought to be fired or not, I find I don't care so much about that.   I'm disinclined to talk about what McBeane should have done, might have done, could have done, that would have put the Bills in a better situation this week.   I just care about the games.  

 

The Pegulas can decide if a coach or a GM is doing the job they want or not, and they can fire people if they want, but I  don't see much point in talking about any of this stuff during the season.   For me, it's all about the games, what happened on the field last week and what might happen on the field next week.  

 

I find I have trouble getting engaged in recent conversations about the QB situation, because those decisions have been made, and we have what we have.   

 

I think it's pretty clear that the Bills were going to invest in a rookie QB.   It became clear as the Bills dealt Taylor and then pretty much declined to participate in the free agent QB musical chairs this spring, opting instead to take the guy who was left over.   That was a clear signal that the Bills were going to invest in a rookie.   Once that became clear, I think there was no reason to expect the Bills to get a seriously good journeyman QB as a backup.   That guy wasn't going to come to the Bills knowing that there was no realistic starting opportunity in Buffalo.   In fact, if McCarron was disappointed that he wasn't the presumptive starter, I think that means McCarron wasn't paying attention.   The handwriting was on the wall. 

 

The fact is that most teams have only one good quarterback, and the Bills have their one.  Virtually everyone on this board recognizes that the only chance the Bills offense has to be even below average (instead of hopelessly below average) is Josh Allen.  To expect that the Bills would have a quality starter coming off the bench is delusional. 

 

Now, having said that, I agree with those who say it was foolhardy to go into the season with Josh and Nate and no one else.   Most everyone expected that it was a matter of weeks, or even days, before Allen took the job from Peterman, and that necessarily would leave the Bills with an inadequate backup.  I have no doubt that McBeane botched that.   They needed three QBs, and Peterman perhaps should have been on the practice squad. 

 

But I really don't care all that much about all of this.   Once Allen went down, we all knew the offense was in trouble, and there are very few, maybe no, things that could have been done to avoid this.  The Bills weren't going to pay significant backup money to a guy who could challenge for the starting job.  If that's what they wanted, they could have kept Taylor.  

 

So, on Sunday, I'm going to the game to watch my team play.  I don't expect them to win but I'm prepared to be surprised.  I watch my team because they're my team.  They don't stop being my team just because they might have done this or should have done that six months ago or two months ago.  

 

[transplantbillsfan]

Shaw, one more thing.

 

I'd be less worried about Edmunds being injury prone than Allen.

 

I'm not particularly worried about either, but Allen's injury is significantly more rare than Edmunds, and it involves the same ligament that, depending on severity of the injury and as a worst case scenario, could end a QB's career.

 

I don't think that's the case with Allen.  I think he was just hit very awkwardly by 2 separate defenders.

 

But there's a small part of me that's definitely thinking about the fact that he was a pitcher in High School and could throw a rocket of a fastball.

 

Has there been overuse damage?

 

Again, only a tiny fraction of me thinks that chance is there.  But it's a bigger concern for me right now--considering the number of weeks Allen has already missed and the fact that he isn't actually throwing yet--than Edmunds' concussion, from which he already seems to be progressing through the protocol.

[Shaw66]

50 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Shaw, one more thing.

 

I'd be less worried about Edmunds being injury prone than Allen.

 

I'm not particularly worried about either, but Allen's injury is significantly more rare than Edmunds, and it involves the same ligament that, depending on severity of the injury and as a worst case scenario, could end a QB's career.

 

I don't think that's the case with Allen.  I think he was just hit very awkwardly by 2 separate defenders.

 

But there's a small part of me that's definitely thinking about the fact that he was a pitcher in High School and could throw a rocket of a fastball.

 

Has there been overuse damage?

 

Again, only a tiny fraction of me thinks that chance is there.  But it's a bigger concern for me right now--considering the number of weeks Allen has already missed and the fact that he isn't actually throwing yet--than Edmunds' concussion, from which he already seems to be progressing through the protocol.

I didn't study this, didn't read much about it, but I understood from what I read that this is essentially a sprain - soft tissue injury that heals with time.  It's also rather unusual - I think it happened because he happened to get hit in just the right way to cause the injury.   

 

It's the tendon that pitchers injure that requires Tommy John surgery, but apparently that injury is peculiar to pitching motions.   

 

So I don't think there's any more long-term risk than something like a high ankle sprain.   

 

Still, any time your QB gets injured, you worry about recurrence. 

 

Has any QB had his career ended with this injury?