McCarthy is going to get fired

[YoloinOhio]

?

 

[Watkins90]

49 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I put the two main ideas together, and I’m puzzled

 

?

His bad coaching and stupid decisions come from clock management issues and making bad decisions in terms of in-game situations. McCarthy should have told Montgomery to take a knee if he caught it in the end zone. Those three seconds were more valuable than the small percent chance he takes on to the house. Not using a timeout and letting the Rams bleed the clock down to 2:03 when they kicked their field is bad clock management. Use your final timeout to save as much time as possible. Rodgers can use his arm to stop the clock based on throws he makes. 

 

It's stuff like that he won't have to worry about as an O.C. It will just be calling plays. I guess we don't know how good of an OC he can truly be because he had Farve and Rodgers in GB. 

16 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Does this mean Bill Belichick is actually a good coach?

 

Conventional wisdom at this board says anyone could win multiple championships with Tom Brady as your QB and folks love to talk about BB's record prior to having Brady as his QB.

 

If that's true, where are Green Bay's pile of championships?  Rodgers is arguably better than Brady.

 

 

Next season 2019 will be his last here.

He won't survive the Allen project going south.

 

Brady and Bill needed each other. One wouldn't have succeeded without the other. 

[SinceThe70s]

Did his Wikipedia page get updated today?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_McCarthy_(American_football)

 

Michael John McCarthy (born November 10, 1963) is the most awful American football coach who unfortunately is the head coach of the Green Bay Packers of the National Football League (NFL). 

 

[Da webster guy]

the pack should have made a run for Leveon Bell.      biggest mistake you can make in sports or life, assume everything will go on like it is.  Rogers could have a career ending injury tomorrow and they go into a 10 year drought up there.     

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Watkins90 said:

He'd make a good O.C. for us next year. 

 

I don't see how he survives this season if he doesn't win a SB. Wasting another one of Aaron Rodgers prime years with bad coaching and stupid decisions. 

 

1 hour ago, Success said:

He has really wasted an all timer.  It’s a shame.

 

Tony Dungy got into the HOF for doing these same things.

[TigerJ]

McCarthy is a West Coast guy.  You replace Daboll with McCarthy, and you're planning for yet another wholesale change.  Josh Allen will have to learn an entire new offense while at the ame time continuing his transition into the NFL.  Not sure if he would use the same blocking schemesThere is probably going to be some personnel change on the offense anyway, but you ratchet that up to wholesale change with a new OC, and forfeit any continuity you hope to develop on the offense.  No thank you.

[rm -rf /*]

1 hour ago, Watkins90 said:

Him and Ron Wolf, who they relieved as GM last year. The guy only built through the draft and refused to spend money in free agency. Guess what guys, it takes more than building through the draft. You sign quality free agents and then hit on draft picks. That's how you win in the NFL. 

 

Or, you do what the Rams did and trade late round picks for proven young talent. 

He isn't a bad O.C. He just makes stupid mistakes as a head coach. Bonehead clock management. If he would just be allowed to concentrate on the offense, he would be fine. 

 

1 hour ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

That's pretty much all he does. If he has been concentrating on defense, that's an example of more ineptitude.

 

Remember a few years ago when he just started running the ball in the NFC championship? The guy is the opposite of what I'd prefer. He's old, tired, conservative and plays it by the book. Ron Wolf left and it's the same crap with them. McCarthy is apart of the problem in my opinion. 

 

 

 

You mean Ted Thompson. Ron Wolf retired from the Packers in 2001, signed countless big name free agents, and is widely considered to be the primary reason the Packers ended 30 years of ineptitude. Ted Thompson was GM from 2005 until 2017. Confusing him with Ron Wolf is sacrilege. Don't be surprised if your beloved family dog gets shot.

 

 

[Victory Formation]

47 minutes ago, BakersBills said:

did he? or was rodgers really good and already learning from another HOF qb?

Brett Favre didn't exactly take Rodgers under his wing, Favre was actually a huge ***** towards Aaron Rodgers. McCarthy developed Rodgers and correct me if I'm wrong Green Bay has struggled on D but have been great on O, McCarthy is the inverse of Coach McDermott, keep Frazier around to keep the defense top notch, all of a sudden we have a good O and good D.

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

He didn't groom Aaron Rodgers. I'm not giving him credit for Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers deserves that credit. 

That just seems not fair at all and harsh. Rodgers didn't go in the top 10, he nearly fell out of the 1st round, nobody thought this guy was going to be this good, nobody. McCarthy coached him, the staff he put together in general to support Rodgers was top notch, the QB he drafted and developed pretty much exceeded all expectations and oh yeah, did I mention he has a Lombardi trophy too?

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Watkins90 said:

Him and Ron Wolf, who they relieved as GM last year. The guy only built through the draft and refused to spend money in free agency. Guess what guys, it takes more than building through the draft. You sign quality free agents and then hit on draft picks. That's how you win in the NFL. 

 

Or, you do what the Rams did and trade late round picks for proven young talent. 

He isn't a bad O.C. He just makes stupid mistakes as a head coach. Bonehead clock management. If he would just be allowed to concentrate on the offense, he would be fine. 

 

 

Yes, you have to sign FAs. No, you don't have to build by signing the high-priced guys. The Pats, Steelers, Ravens, the consistent teams fill in with low- to mid-priced guys while drafting their core players. The Packers signed almost nobody. It was an interesting experiment but it didn't work on defense.

[RochesterRob]

  I would not say that the Packers have had a stifling defense while he was there.  He has had a few decent pieces such as Matthews but I don't recall him having a top 5 guy at any position on defense in recent memory.  Just goes to show the guys here that bang the table for a 5000 yard QB that will not always win you a title.  Guys here also mock people who would be content with a few 9-7 or 10-6 seasons while the defense gets sorted out but I would take what has gone on in GB if that was simply a team's fate versus going 7-9 or 6-10 to satisfy the notion by some that some sort of NFL purgatory will ultimately lead to the promised land.  Nothing  can guarantee a SB win.  Tanking or any other sort of self-imposed sacrifice.  Who knows.  Maybe our exile from the conference title game is punishment by the football gods for declining what was offered.  I know that does not make a lot of sense but makes as much sense as some of the other opinions made here.  As to McCarthy the Packers have a lot of soul searching to do but should keep in mind that even coaches of McCarthy's caliber do not grow on trees.

Edited October 29, 2018 by RochesterRob

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

He didn't groom Aaron Rodgers. I'm not giving him credit for Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers deserves that credit. 

 

 

Nah. Rodgers started out at a low level. He had about the best development process anyone could have, under about the best teacher anyone could have. McCarthy changed his motion and taught him the position.

 

McCarthy is considered a QB guru. Tyler Dunne has a great story about it here:

 

http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/mccarthy-can-teach-qbs-with-anyone-el6mfil-168285666.html/

 

"He's considered an architect of the quarterback position, the modern-day standard. McCarthy has worked with Joe Montana, Rich Gannon, Steve Bono, Matt Hasselbeck, Brett Favre, Aaron Brooks and, of course, Aaron Rodgers. But he never even played the position. McCarthy was a tight end at Baker University (Kan.). His first job? Coaching linebackers at Fort Hays State. The making of this Quarterback M.D. is rooted in his first 10 years as a coach. McCarthy did "the whole sleep-in-the-office thing."

 

Other stuff from the Dunne story:

 

"Over their four years together, Gannon started only 19 games. But it was McCarthy who helped Gannon morph from journeyman to juggernaut. Behind the scenes, he revitalized the quarterback's career. Eventually in Oakland, Gannon would make four Pro Bowls, earn league MVP honors and reach the Super Bowl ... 'He was so organized and so detailed and had such a good way of breaking it down - and he was such a young coach at the time,' Gannon said. 'If I had his quality of coaching early in my career, boy, things would have gone a lot smoother. He just took it to another level.'"

 

"On the field during his QB school, McCarthy forced his charges to visualize a defense. Before a snap - no defense, no receivers, no linemen on the field - he'd call out a defensive formation, such as 'under front, three sky with a Mike blitz,' Gannon said. On the fly, the quarterback had to drop back and react with proper footwork. 'So it's all mental,' Gannon said. 'We got so many mental reps, we were so, so, so far ahead.'"

 

 

Rodgers sucked his first three training camps and preseasons. McCarthy's "QB camp" was huge for Rodgers, including changing his throwing motion.

 

 

 

"Before he got drafted, I worked out with [Rodgers] and now he's a totally different quarterback."    - Jerry Rice

 

 

 

And the long long time beat writer for the Pack, Bob McGinn, while explaining why he'd take Favre over Rodgers, says the same thing:

 

"The MMQB: You documented how fortunate it was that Aaron Rodgers didn’t have to play the first couple of years—he just wasn’t ready.

 

McGinn: “He was a very poor player here for his first two summers and regular-season practices. Fortunately for him, and he knows that down deep, he didn’t have to play early. His delivery was a mess, bad body language, he didn’t know how to deal with teammates. He learned so much from Brett Favre on how to in some ways be one of the guys and relate, and he became much more of a leader. He was really poor and how many great players have ever had a start like that? Not that many. A lot of scouts look at that exhibition tape those first two years and he was a little bit better the third year, but not to any degree, and then he just really developed. He lost a lot of close games in ’08, but by ’09 he was playing great and by 2010 he was maybe the best in the business."

 

 

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/13/themmqb-exit-interview-bob-mcginn-green-bay-packers-milwaukee-journal-sentinel-nfl-beat-writer

 

 

Rodgers was lucky he didn't have to play early. He didn't look good at GB till into his fourth year.

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Thurman#1

[John from Riverside]

I dont mind sticking with Deboll

 

but in all honesty....I would really like to see them beef up offensive scouting.....or maybe bring in a consultant to Beane that has proven offensive scouting success......and target players that specifically fit Deboll's offense...

 

I know Pegula doesnt mind spending the money on these things......he put out a ton on coaches during the Rex Ryan tenure........they just have to identify someone good for it and get him in here

[Ol Dirty B]

2 hours ago, rm -rf /* said:

 

 

You mean Ted Thompson. Ron Wolf retired from the Packers in 2001, signed countless big name free agents, and is widely considered to be the primary reason the Packers ended 30 years of ineptitude. Ted Thompson was GM from 2005 until 2017. Confusing him with Ron Wolf is sacrilege. Don't be surprised if your beloved family dog gets shot.

 

 

 

You're correct. I saw him mention Ron wolf, and was obviously wrong. Interesting link lol

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nah. Rodgers started out at a low level. He had about the best development process anyone could have, under about the best teacher anyone could have. McCarthy changed his motion and taught him the position.

 

McCarthy is considered a QB guru. Tyler Dunne has a great story about it here:

 

http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/mccarthy-can-teach-qbs-with-anyone-el6mfil-168285666.html/

 

"He's considered an architect of the quarterback position, the modern-day standard. McCarthy has worked with Joe Montana, Rich Gannon, Steve Bono, Matt Hasselbeck, Brett Favre, Aaron Brooks and, of course, Aaron Rodgers. But he never even played the position. McCarthy was a tight end at Baker University (Kan.). His first job? Coaching linebackers at Fort Hays State. The making of this Quarterback M.D. is rooted in his first 10 years as a coach. McCarthy did "the whole sleep-in-the-office thing."

 

Other stuff from the Dunne story:

 

"Over their four years together, Gannon started only 19 games. But it was McCarthy who helped Gannon morph from journeyman to juggernaut. Behind the scenes, he revitalized the quarterback's career. Eventually in Oakland, Gannon would make four Pro Bowls, earn league MVP honors and reach the Super Bowl ... 'He was so organized and so detailed and had such a good way of breaking it down - and he was such a young coach at the time,' Gannon said. 'If I had his quality of coaching early in my career, boy, things would have gone a lot smoother. He just took it to another level.'"

 

"On the field during his QB school, McCarthy forced his charges to visualize a defense. Before a snap - no defense, no receivers, no linemen on the field - he'd call out a defensive formation, such as 'under front, three sky with a Mike blitz,' Gannon said. On the fly, the quarterback had to drop back and react with proper footwork. 'So it's all mental,' Gannon said. 'We got so many mental reps, we were so, so, so far ahead.'"

 

 

Rodgers sucked his first three training camps and preseasons. McCarthy's "QB camp" was huge for Rodgers, including changing his throwing motion.

 

 

 

"Before he got drafted, I worked out with [Rodgers] and now he's a totally different quarterback."    - Jerry Rice

 

 

 

And the long long time beat writer for the Pack, Bob McGinn, while explaining why he'd take Favre over Rodgers, says the same thing:

 

"The MMQB: You documented how fortunate it was that Aaron Rodgers didn’t have to play the first couple of years—he just wasn’t ready.

 

McGinn: “He was a very poor player here for his first two summers and regular-season practices. Fortunately for him, and he knows that down deep, he didn’t have to play early. His delivery was a mess, bad body language, he didn’t know how to deal with teammates. He learned so much from Brett Favre on how to in some ways be one of the guys and relate, and he became much more of a leader. He was really poor and how many great players have ever had a start like that? Not that many. A lot of scouts look at that exhibition tape those first two years and he was a little bit better the third year, but not to any degree, and then he just really developed. He lost a lot of close games in ’08, but by ’09 he was playing great and by 2010 he was maybe the best in the business."

 

 

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/13/themmqb-exit-interview-bob-mcginn-green-bay-packers-milwaukee-journal-sentinel-nfl-beat-writer

 

 

Rodgers was lucky he didn't have to play early. He didn't look good at GB till into his fourth year.

 

 

You make a great case. I can't rebuff any of that. Rodgers turned out great and maybe McCarthy is deserving of more credit than I have given him. I really can't argue with you. 

[CDogg20]

Has a super bowl winning head coach ever been relegated to OC? 

 

Either way hard pass. McCarthy is trash. 

[Ol Dirty B]

29 minutes ago, CDogg20 said:

Has a super bowl winning head coach ever been relegated to OC? 

 

Either way hard pass. McCarthy is trash. 

 

That's actually a really good point... I'm trying to think of one and can't. The ones I know off hand have lost, or they stay HCs.

 

Going back to through the 80s. I'm pretty sure you're right. Who was the Giants coach in the 80s? 

[LSHMEAB]

37 minutes ago, CDogg20 said:

Has a super bowl winning head coach ever been relegated to OC? 

 

Either way hard pass. McCarthy is trash. 

Well. That guy in New England was relegated to coordinator after a HC'ing stint but I'm not sure that counts.

 

If McCarthy were available as OC, I'd be all in! He was outstanding as OC in SF prior to GB. 

 

I highly doubt he's taking the OC job in Buffalo if he were to be fired. Wouldn't be shocked if he got a HC gig somewhere else.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Maybe, they are going to lose next week too and will be lucky to make the playoffs.

 

 

[#34fan]

He'd be better than anything we currently have on staff.

[TwistofFate]

I have friends from Wisconsin.   None of them blame McCarthy. 

 

The all blame the FO and management for not retaining talent and not addressing needs properly. 

 

Ted Tompson is public enemy number 1.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Does this mean Bill Belichick is actually a good coach?

 

Conventional wisdom at this board says anyone could win multiple championships with Tom Brady as your QB and folks love to talk about BB's record prior to having Brady as his QB.

 

If that's true, where are Green Bay's pile of championships?  Rodgers is arguably better than Brady.

 

 

Next season 2019 will be his last here.

He won't survive the Allen project going south.

 

 

 

In two years the Allen project won't have an outcome, at least it won't unless he becomes terrific in that short time.

 

I'm not convinced Allen will ever be a franchise guy. But we're talking about a guy who was said from minute one to require a year or two of development. Mayock said he should be drafted by a team that could let him sit for a couple of years. Highly unlikely that anyone will be putting an end to this project by the end of 2019.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Thurman#1

[row_33]

31 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

I have friends from Wisconsin.   None of them blame McCarthy. 

 

The all blame the FO and management for not retaining talent and not addressing needs properly. 

 

Ted Tompson is public enemy number 1.

 

So management of two strong franchises has consistently refused to stack skill position talent for both Brady and Rodgers.

[BakersBills]

I will say he does know how to run pick plays which the bills still have no clue about 

[row_33]

 

Two in-game decisions by the Pack were dreadfully bad today, not including the ST mess up. I can’t remember them specifically but remember wondering WTH were they doing twice today. Tons of experience cheering for the Bills makes us experts on this.

 

 

[eanyills]

10 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Yeah because having the coach who groomed Aaron Rodgers is a bad thing, if McCarthy does get fired it'd be stupid not to bring him in. 

 

Keeping Frazier guarantees that Tre White and Edmunds don't get traded or cut loose by the next regime.

 

The packers “success” hasn’t been because of McCarthy. It’s been in spite of him, because Aaron Rodgers is an all time great.

[DCOrange]

Watching the Packers offense over the years, I'm very skeptical of McCarthy as an OC. Maybe with more time to focus on it, he'd do better, but the system in Green Bay is holding that team back.

[GunnerBill]

13 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I don't get it at all either. He's clearly their best back. I think I may have read something about between the suspension and being a liability in pass blocking they are frustrated with him? I don't watch their games enough to know if that's the case.

 

He is a bad blocker. All their back are. They haven't had a decent 3rd down back who can pass block since James Starks. 

[RochesterRob]

6 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

I have friends from Wisconsin.   None of them blame McCarthy. 

 

The all blame the FO and management for not retaining talent and not addressing needs properly. 

 

Ted Tompson is public enemy number 1.

  What you said is too complicated for the torch and pitchfork crowd here.  They want a name and possibly two to ramp up the anger over.  Any more than that the thought process gets too diluted for their liking.

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

I was living in SF and going to some of the games when he was OC.  He had a young Alex Smith and did nothing with him.  Those offences were awful to watch.  Stunning that he got a HC nod.  

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

That's actually a really good point... I'm trying to think of one and can't. The ones I know off hand have lost, or they stay HCs.

 

Going back to through the 80s. I'm pretty sure you're right. Who was the Giants coach in the 80s? 

 

Parcells.

I think there is something in the fact that the offenses around the league running quite traditional west coast offenses the likes of which Bill Walsh would recognise are finding it tougher now than 5 or 6 years ago. Green Bay are in that category.

 

When Steve Mariucci sat down with Andy Reid for NFLN he asked him "where is all the west coast stuff we used to coach together? What are you even running now?" I thought Reid's answer was really interesting "If you look closely they are the same plays we just get to them a little differently." And that to me is the key. Same concepts run with a more contemporary twist. 

[CDogg20]

10 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

That's actually a really good point... I'm trying to think of one and can't. The ones I know off hand have lost, or they stay HCs.

 

Going back to through the 80s. I'm pretty sure you're right. Who was the Giants coach in the 80s? 

Parcells was 83-90 unless you’re talking earlier? 

[ChattanoogaBills]

I'd rather have hue jackson over mike McCarthy

[CDogg20]

10 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Well. That guy in New England was relegated to coordinator after a HC'ing stint but I'm not sure that counts.

 

If McCarthy were available as OC, I'd be all in! He was outstanding as OC in SF prior to GB. 

 

I highly doubt he's taking the OC job in Buffalo if he were to be fired. Wouldn't be shocked if he got a HC gig somewhere else.

I meant after you already won a SB. Id be weary of him as an OC. If he has trouble winning with Rodgers I would hate to see what he could do with our offense.

 

I agree with you in regards to the last statement, I do believe he would land a HC job elsewhere at some point. He may have to wait like Shannahan did but it will happen at some point. SB winning head coaches have too much pride. Anything lower than a HC job has to be an insult to them. The NFL is a changin’ though so who knows...

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

16 hours ago, Watkins90 said:

 

Or, you do what the Rams did and trade late round picks for proven young talent. 

 

 

What about our strategy of trading young talent for late round picks?

[LSHMEAB]

15 minutes ago, CDogg20 said:

I meant after you already won a SB. Id be weary of him as an OC. If he has trouble winning with Rodgers I would hate to see what he could do with our offense.

 

I agree with you in regards to the last statement, I do believe he would land a HC job elsewhere at some point. He may have to wait like Shannahan did but it will happen at some point. SB winning head coaches have too much pride. Anything lower than a HC job has to be an insult to them. The NFL is a changin’ though so who knows...

Right. I think the Packers have serious roster deficiencies and that he still has a terrific offensive gameplan, but the overall results are not good considering the QB they've had. The apathy towards him is understandable even if I don't agree it's a reflection on his ability to devise an offense. 

 

Agree with your last paragraph entirely. He's not coming here as OC, so it's really a moot point.

[WhoTom]

17 hours ago, Watkins90 said:

McCarthy should have told Montgomery to take a knee if he caught it in the end zone.

 

He did; Montgomery mutinied.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000980254/article/aaron-rodgers-hollywood-ending-hijacked-by-rogue-decision

 

Quote

As Greg Zuerlein's kickoff sailed into the end zone, Rodgers fully expected return man Ty Montgomery to kneel down for a touchback, given that the running back had been instructed by his coaches to do just that.

 

As soon as he started running the ball out, I had a Leodis McKelvin flashback.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by WhoTom

[TwistofFate]

14 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

Two in-game decisions by the Pack were dreadfully bad today, not including the ST mess up. I can’t remember them specifically but remember wondering WTH were they doing twice today. Tons of experience cheering for the Bills makes us experts on this.

 

 

It wasn't the coaching. 

 

The special teams fumble was a player NOT doing what the coaches specifically told him to do.   He was told to take a knee.   It's also the same player who went rogue on another play that cost them. 

 

That player may actually be cut. 

 

They weren't coaching decisions. 

[Ol Dirty B]

23 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Well. That guy in New England was relegated to coordinator after a HC'ing stint but I'm not sure that counts.

 

If McCarthy were available as OC, I'd be all in! He was outstanding as OC in SF prior to GB. 

 

I highly doubt he's taking the OC job in Buffalo if he were to be fired. Wouldn't be shocked if he got a HC gig somewhere else.

 

Did belichick go back to a DC after the browns? Granted he never made the superbowl with the browns, but I do think you make a good point.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[LSHMEAB]

11 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Did belichick go back to a DC after the browns? Granted he never made the superbowl with the browns, but I do think you make a good point.

I'm pretty sure he was Parcells DC with NE or the NYJ. I know it's not the same as a guy who's been in GB for over a decade though.