Media trying to get McDermott fired.

[JMF2006]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

That's the roster building combo that many are wary of

 

Like it or not I am pretty sure they will not be fired before their 5 years are up.

 

Pegs will let them work their plan.

[The_Dude]

18 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

I was watching  channel 2 news this morning and Adam Benini and Vic Carrucci were saying that with the way this team is playing that McDermott JUST HAS TO BE on the hot seat. Then they bemoan how bad they played against the Colts and it's just unacceptable for the defense to give up all those points to the 1-5 colts.

 

Maybe they forgot how critical turnovers are (from the offense) to getting blown out. Guess they forgot how we demolished the Vikings at home and that a superior team can get their butts handed to them by a lesser team.

 

What I find sad is these clowns can't see the long game that is going on here and that this offseason is going to be used to finish most of the rebuild that is taking place.

 

McDermott is going nowhere.

 

 

 

McDermott is a very respectable defensive coordinator. That’s it. 

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

 

Like it or not I am pretty sure they will not be fired before their 5 years are up.

 

Pegs will let them work their plan.

 

I don't doubt that.

[oldmanfan]

16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Because A: it doesn't take any real talent to unload the talented players from the roster. and B: it takes talent to find their replacements and coach them.  It's "B" tha tposters seem to worry about, given McD's coaching and roster choices in the past year in particular.

 

He hasn't instilled confidence that he will suddenly be able to draft/assemble a productive offense. 

They haven't focused on that side of the ball, true.  But they have a young QB (what happened to all the folks who kept going on and on that nothing else mattered except drafting a QB?), they have a gut at LT that will be a fixture for a while, and Jones is coming around. So they have their QB and LT, and potential for a solid #2 WR.  Especially with LT and QB, those are two positions you have to have on an offense.

 

 I will be at the head of the line if they do not focus on the offensive side of the ball this coming off-season.  But this idea they can't recognize talent is just over the top whining in my opinion.  Let them pick their guys first, then I'll look at it objectively.

[BillsInWilmingtonNC]

16 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

 

I'll give you Darby because they 're did the whole secondary and did a great job.

 

As far as Dareus and his"cancer", what I remember is our D got runned over in 3 strAight blow out losses immediately after he left and he sacked our QB in the playoffs.

 

say what you want about Sammy, but one of the smartest offensive guys in the NFL thinks he's good enough to start for him and you and McDermott dont. Ok, I'll side with Andy Reid.

 

And yes, Woods.  I don't know if he wanted to sign here or how much bla bla blah.   He wanted to be paid. Like all good NFL players.  You have to have them to win.   You get what you pay for.

 

why do we never have money to sign people while Atlanta has Ryan (fat wallet), Jones (fat wallet), Sanu who the signed (fat wallet), and Ridley who they traded up into 1st round for yet we never do? I don't buy it.

 

I understand what you are saying about the whole not paying for top tier talent and the "you get what you pay for".  I 100% agree with that...  And Woods is a prime example, guy was/is a stud.  We don't have money currently (due to their decisions to offload players), but that changes after this season and then there are no excuses..... IF we keep this staff.... but if we replace them, then its just a brand new staff saying "just give us time to get our guys".

43 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

They wouldn't have been hired in the first place if the Pegulas thought that they would put a team on the field that would get blown out by 20 or more points with regularity ...

I'm sure that McBeane didn't include that in their pitch to the Pegula's but that does happen to be a byproduct of eating all of this dead cap that we have this year

[dave mcbride]

18 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Actually he does not. 

 

With Rex we were 15-16  .484

 

Coach McDermott presently is sitting on 11-11 .500  If you count playoffs, then yeah, he's 11-12.  .478

 

Getting the coach fired worked for them with Rex.  Why not crank it up again? They need clicks evidently.

 

I think what they're doing this year stinks to high heaven.  But I would give them the rest of this year and next.  If the win total does not go up by at least 3, they'd probably be out.

He's actually 11-12 excluding the playoffs.

[Big Gun]

16 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

You can’t really say that McD has a certain time period before he is fired..

 

If the players quit on him then he will be gone..

 

Saw some signs last week that the Defense was going through the motions..It’s a given that the Offense is going to suck so if the D stops trying then it’s danger time ahead for McD..They supposedly have just about fixed this side of the ball right? 

 

Will be watching the effort next week very closely..they will be in the national spotlight so hope that means something to the players..

IMO, McCoach loses the locker room before the end of the year. 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They haven't focused on that side of the ball, true.  But they have a young QB (what happened to all the folks who kept going on and on that nothing else mattered except drafting a QB?), they have a gut at LT that will be a fixture for a while, and Jones is coming around. So they have their QB and LT, and potential for a solid #2 WR.  Especially with LT and QB, those are two positions you have to have on an offense.

 

 I will be at the head of the line if they do not focus on the offensive side of the ball this coming off-season.  But this idea they can't recognize talent is just over the top whining in my opinion.  Let them pick their guys first, then I'll look at it objectively.

 

It's really not.  It's a legit charge.  Many posters here have well documented the bad talent choices McD has made the past 2 years.  The QB position encapsulates his talent recognition deficit perfectly---going back to the 2017 draft all the way to Having Anderson as the starter for week 8.  The WR spot is also a mess, with nutty choices this year alone.

 

It's really not whining.  It's well documented shaky move making.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

After the [BN]competent supposedly turfed Gleason and Sullivan at pressure from the Pegulas, I guess this is only to be expected?  ?

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It's really not.  It's a legit charge.  Many posters here have well documented the bad talent choices McD has made the past 2 years.  The QB position encapsulates his talent recognition deficit perfectly---going back to the 2017 draft all the way to Having Anderson as the starter for week 8.  The WR spot is also a mess, with nutty choices this year alone.

 

It's really not whining.  It's well documented shaky move making.

Well, I obviously disagree overall, but having said that there are criticisms that can be made, and I have made them.  I have said that they should have gotten a veteran QB in when they traded McCarron.  I don't think it would have changed the progress or record of this season one iota, but it would at least have given Allen a more experienced voice to provide advice.

 

Now, as for the 2017 QB draft, I have said often I would have liked Watson.  But we have seen he's struggled a bit more this year, in part due to a terrible O line in front of him.  Mahomes?  The revisionist history on that one is illuminating.  Go back and look at the pre-draft critiques about his footwork, playing in a single read offense, etc.  Some of those are ery reminiscent of what was said about Allen.  No question Mahomes has shown he's a dynamic young QB, but he also has a lot of weapons around him.  All told, I am OK going forward with Allen.

 

WR?  They took a shot at some veteran guys, exactly what folks were complaining about.  Boldin who retired, Kerley who as far as I know hasn't caught on anywhere.  Coleman, which I think was a mistake.  Benjamin last year was brought in when they felt they needed a guy to help get them to the playoffs, which they did.  They could have taken a shot at Gordon, and probably the only place Gordo works out is NE where Brady and Belichick might have a chance at controlling him , and the jury is out there.   

 

So what else?

[Big Gun]

12 hours ago, Augie said:

 

That’s how you clean out the pantry! I have zero problem with most of it. Toss out the Whole Foods stuff with a questionable smell or past the expiration date and do some Costco shopping in the draft for some fine ingredients. 

 

We knew this would be a down year, so it’s too soon to judge what it might be a couple years down the road. I admit this is uglier than I expected, but I’m prepared to wait it out before judging. But that’s just me....

Name any other team in NFL history that has done a rebuild to this extent then been successful?

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, pop gun said:

Name any other team in NFL history that has done a rebuild to this extent then been successful?

Cowboys under Johnson.

[That_Guy]

the Vikings game was great but we can probably acknowledge that it was an outlier and isn't indicative of the kind of performance and season we're going to get this year game-in and game-out.  it's not really a valid example of how the team is doing and therefore it's not really a valid argument that the coaching staff is doing a good job.

 

Yes, it's a rebuild and "the process" is still in the process of getting things turned around but the QB situation we're in right now is proof that the coaching staff could've, and should've, planned things better for this year than they have.  Proper prior planning prevents piss-poor performance and we've got a lot of piss-poor performance going on right now.

[Dr. Who]

16 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....would agree Doc that it would be a serious consideration.....so from your perspective, who stays and who goes?.....we don't know the extent of McDermott's power.....is McBeane the fingered culprit?.....does Pegula fire McDermott and retain McBeane?.....do they BOTH go?.......does Pegula get involved ala the "Wade Effect" , demanding certain coaches go or else?.....Wade protected and lost......this time NEXT year should be interesting if we're taking on the "same amount of water"...stay tuned....

I don't know, but I have a feeling if McDermott goes down, the Pegula's may try to bring in a football czar ala Coughlin with the Jags to sort things out. Not sure who would be considered, but there must be some old, crusty fellas who qualify.

[blitzboy54]

I would argue that McDermmott is trying to get McDermmott fired.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I don't know, but I have a feeling if McDermott goes down, the Pegula's may try to bring in a football czar ala Coughlin with the Jags to sort things out. Not sure who would be considered, but there must be some old, crusty fellas who qualify.

 

...LOL......he could re-dial his first choice, Polian........interesting that when he first contacted Polian, Schwartz who was still here as DC said in inner circles, "if that happens, I'll just resign......I have plenty to live on (had $13 mil coming from Lions).....".......never heard what his actual or specific objection was though.........

Edited October 25, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Big Gun]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Cowboys under Johnson.

Johnson inherited an already crap 3-13 team a little different than what happened here and they accomplished what they accomplished by trading basically one player and fleecing the Vikings. They didn't purge and tank then rebuild.    

[Mr. WEO]

22 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Well, I obviously disagree overall, but having said that there are criticisms that can be made, and I have made them.  I have said that they should have gotten a veteran QB in when they traded McCarron.  I don't think it would have changed the progress or record of this season one iota, but it would at least have given Allen a more experienced voice to provide advice.

 

Now, as for the 2017 QB draft, I have said often I would have liked Watson.  But we have seen he's struggled a bit more this year, in part due to a terrible O line in front of him.  Mahomes?  The revisionist history on that one is illuminating.  Go back and look at the pre-draft critiques about his footwork, playing in a single read offense, etc.  Some of those are ery reminiscent of what was said about Allen.  No question Mahomes has shown he's a dynamic young QB, but he also has a lot of weapons around him.  All told, I am OK going forward with Allen.

 

WR?  They took a shot at some veteran guys, exactly what folks were complaining about.  Boldin who retired, Kerley who as far as I know hasn't caught on anywhere.  Coleman, which I think was a mistake.  Benjamin last year was brought in when they felt they needed a guy to help get them to the playoffs, which they did.  They could have taken a shot at Gordon, and probably the only place Gordo works out is NE where Brady and Belichick might have a chance at controlling him , and the jury is out there.   

 

So what else?

 

Watson had bigger criticism pre draft than Mahomes.  I'll take the L on my dragging of Andy Reid on that pick---but he JUMPED up to get Mahomes.  The Bills took a CB in the 1st round (TJ Watt was right there at a need position, so was Njoku at TE---a decades long need for the Bills).

 

The Bills also could have drafted McCoy's replacement for peanuts.  They weren't even thinking about that.  They picked Zay Jones when Cook and Kamara were better bets.  Imagine this young offense going forward with either of those two and  Cupp instead of "coming around" Zay Jones and Dawkins....

 

In 2018, as one poster upstream noted, it cost them a lot to get Allen.  I'm on board with that because they needed to pull the trigger in the best QB draft we will see for years to come.   And for WR?  Thise 2nd round picks took them out of the sweet spot where a haul of good rookie WRs were picked.  Passed in the 3rd and 5th too.Instead, they waited and then drafted 2 guys who likely would have gone undrafted with picks 6 and 7.  St. Brown was considered a top 10 WR prospect and got picked after "Ray Ray". Gage, St. Brown, Wilson, Ateman, Tate were all considered top 25 and all were available in the 6th.

 

So this is why there can be legitimate doubt as to the ability of McD to pick a new offense this offseason.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Who will?  McD?  Daboll? Beane?  In the past 2 drafts it's essentially been Allen and Jones. Suddenly this FO is going to run the table in the next draft for the Offense?

Dont forget Dawkins

 

And you have to admit....the emphasis in the last 2 drafts has been most defense

[mannc]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Cowboys under Johnson.

30 years ago?  They went 1-15 in Johnson’s first year.  He inherited a mess.  McBeane didn’t.  

 

 Maybe the Vikings will give us three first rounders for McCoy, and he can be McBeane’s Herschel Walker.

Edited October 25, 2018 by mannc

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Dont forget Dawkins

 

And you have to admit....the emphasis in the last 2 drafts has been most defense

 

I would admit if it was true.

 

Both drafts:  50/50 offense/defense

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Well, I obviously disagree overall, but having said that there are criticisms that can be made, and I have made them.  I have said that they should have gotten a veteran QB in when they traded McCarron.  I don't think it would have changed the progress or record of this season one iota, but it would at least have given Allen a more experienced voice to provide advice.

 

Now, as for the 2017 QB draft, I have said often I would have liked Watson.  But we have seen he's struggled a bit more this year, in part due to a terrible O line in front of him.  Mahomes?  The revisionist history on that one is illuminating.  Go back and look at the pre-draft critiques about his footwork, playing in a single read offense, etc.  Some of those are ery reminiscent of what was said about Allen.  No question Mahomes has shown he's a dynamic young QB, but he also has a lot of weapons around him.  All told, I am OK going forward with Allen.

 

WR?  They took a shot at some veteran guys, exactly what folks were complaining about.  Boldin who retired, Kerley who as far as I know hasn't caught on anywhere.  Coleman, which I think was a mistake.  Benjamin last year was brought in when they felt they needed a guy to help get them to the playoffs, which they did.  They could have taken a shot at Gordon, and probably the only place Gordo works out is NE where Brady and Belichick might have a chance at controlling him , and the jury is out there.   

 

So what else?

Watson this year is at least average. He's not even having a bad season.  He's on pace for over 4,300+ yards, 23 TDs, 470 yards rushing, and 8.0 ypa. 

[mannc]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Watson this year is at least average. He's not even having a bad season.  He's on pace for over 4,300+ yards, 23 TDs, 470 yards rushing, and 8.0 ypa. 

Yep.  Reports of Watson’s “regression” are greatly exaggerated.  He’s coming off major knee surgery and playing behind a mess of an O-line.

[blacklabel]

21 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

I was watching  channel 2 news this morning and Adam Benini and Vic Carrucci were saying that with the way this team is playing that McDermott JUST HAS TO BE on the hot seat. Then they bemoan how bad they played against the Colts and it's just unacceptable for the defense to give up all those points to the 1-5 colts.

 

Maybe they forgot how critical turnovers are (from the offense) to getting blown out. Guess they forgot how we demolished the Vikings at home and that a superior team can get their butts handed to them by a lesser team.

 

What I find sad is these clowns can't see the long game that is going on here and that this offseason is going to be used to finish most of the rebuild that is taking place.

 

McDermott is going nowhere.

 

I caught some of their "Sports Talk Sunday" stuff on the 6 PM news and, honestly, these guys know 100% that the Bills were in for a rough year. They knew that the team was light on talent and experience, they knew they drafted a very raw QB prospect, a very young MLB, etc. They also know how much McDermott can get from so little, as evidenced by the playoff run last season. 

 

Despite the fact that they know all of this... they still need talking points to make people tune into their show and read their columns. Controversial talking points work the best. What better way to rile up the fan base than by having two of the most tenured Bills media guys start talking about how McDermott might be losing this team. They know exactly what they're doing while simultaneously knowing that the Pegulas hired Beane and McDermott for the long haul and will definitely give them plenty of time to finish their rebuild and see where it can take them. The Pegulas are the absolute last people that wanna keep firing and hiring new coaches every other season. They got stuck with the Marrone situation, they intended on keeping him around but he took his ball and went home. They whiffed on Rex because I believe Russ Brandon still had their ear and was telling them the team was "just a couple pieces away" and Rex was a "big name" that could sell tickets and get the media talking. Bad move, but they're young owners and you gotta make mistakes in order to learn. For all intents and purposes, they love McBeane and were very involved in the hiring process this time, whereas before, with Rex, I think they let Brandon and Whaley run the show a bit more and have them report back to them while also chiming in for a question here and there. Terry said it himself that he was always much more of a listener during the interviews for HC's before they hired Rex. I believe he stated he was more involved when they hired McDermott. We know they feel really good about the hire, they prefer to be hands off and allow these guys room to work. I don't see that changing based on the results of this season. They knew what they were in for. No pain, no gain.

[oldmanfan]

38 minutes ago, mannc said:

30 years ago?  They went 1-15 in Johnson’s first year.  He inherited a mess.  McBeane didn’t.  

 

 Maybe the Vikings will give us three first rounders for McCoy, and he can be McBeane’s Herschel Walker.

Someone asks for one other team that built back up from scratch.  They get one and then it's all about excuses as to why that wasn't the same as the Bills.

34 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Watson this year is at least average. He's not even having a bad season.  He's on pace for over 4,300+ yards, 23 TDs, 470 yards rushing, and 8.0 ypa. 

I still like Watson.  But I think Allen will be fine.  And I don't ignore that we have possibly  the best young CB in the game.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

22 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

What I find sad is these clowns can't see the long game that is going on here and that this offseason is going to be used to finish most of the rebuild that is taking place.

 

 

Rebuild? Rebuild to what? I will believe it when I see it. Do you really have faith that McDermott and Beane have any clue how to build a good offense? The same duo that has been duped into thinking Peterman is the right answer how many times now? If they can't make an easy evaluation to move on from Peterman how can they make the tougher evaluations? Their level of QB scouting is on the John Elway level of bad. 

[mannc]

12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Someone asks for one other team that built back up from scratch.  They get one and then it's all about excuses as to why that wasn't the same as the Bills.

Those aren’t “excuses”.  They are called distinguishing factors.  Can you refute them? Does NFL 1988 equal NFL 2018?  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

22 hours ago, PIZ said:

They don't realize that Bean and McDermott and the Pegulas all expected this to happen.  They expected 2017 and 2018 to be bad seasons.  Being a playoff team in 2017 was great, but it gave EVERYONE unrealistic expectations for 2018.  2017 and 2018 were always about tearing it down, while adding some key pieces or young players growing (Hyde, Poyer, Allen, Edmunds, Dawkins, Jones) and 2019 was about building it back up.  That has always been the plan.  McDermott hasn't been preaching about the "PROCESS" for nothing.

 

 

 

It's one thing to be bad. It's another to field the worst offense the league has ever seen. Nobody expected to be this bad on that side of the ball. 

22 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

He broke a 17 year playoff drought. 

 

With Whaley's players. 

[Peter]

7 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

It's one thing to be bad. It's another to field the worst offense the league has ever seen. Nobody expected to be this bad on that side of the ball. 

 

With Whaley's players. 

 

and with Bengals' players . . . .

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

30 years ago?  They went 1-15 in Johnson’s first year.  He inherited a mess.  McBeane didn’t.  

 

 Maybe the Vikings will give us three first rounders for McCoy, and he can be McBeane’s Herschel Walker.

 

It's useless to argue with McDermott/Beane cheerleaders.  They apparently inhabit the same alternative universe their heroes do -- the one in which the forward pass is viewed as a necessary evil and WRs with speed and good hands are superfluous.

 

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Watson this year is at least average. He's not even having a bad season.  He's on pace for over 4,300+ yards, 23 TDs, 470 yards rushing, and 8.0 ypa. 

^^^

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Yep.  Reports of Watson’s “regression” are greatly exaggerated.  He’s coming off major knee surgery and playing behind a mess of an O-line.

 

Watson was averaging over 300 yards a game passing before he was hurt.  He's played the last two games with a partially collapsed lung, which means that he could hardly take a breath without pain.  He's the real deal.

 

As for Mahomes, I think he's played only about three more games than Allen, but the difference between what he does on the field and what Allen does is light years difference.   Part of that difference is that Mahomes has had much, much better coaching and support than Allen, but the talent differential seems just amazing.  Mahomes plays like a veteran.  Allen plays like a green rookie with poor coaching and a poor team around him.

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Those aren’t “excuses”.  They are called distinguishing factors.  Can you refute them? Does NFL 1988 equal NFL 2018?  

In the context of the question it doesn't matter a hill of beans whether it's 1988 bs. 2018.  The idea of rebuilding a team is the same.  Focus might be different, the idea is the same.

 

I'm sorry you don't like the way the Bills are doing it, but they have a plan and until they implement the plan no one knows if they will succeed or fail.

[reddogblitz]

7 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/25064152/nfl-buffalo-bills-pace-worst-offense-modern-history

 

53.2% worse than the average NFL offense.

 

Worst in 33 years of data. 

 

OK, this officially makes Coach McDermott anti-Chan.  Chan was an offensive guy with a decent offense and fielded historically bad Defenses.  Now Coach McDermott is a defensive guy with a decent defense and fields historically bad Offenses.

[Julio Hopkins]

The rebuild is going to take at least two more offseasons if they nail a majority of their additions.