Bills D now ranked 3rd...forced the most fumbles in the NFL by a LOT...

[billspro]

2 minutes ago, ganesh said:

That is not true.  The TOP was pretty much even (and in fact the Bills offense had the ball for a longer time in the 1st half).

 

Well give credit to the D. The offense was horrible at possessing the ball yesterday. Almost all of their dives were under 3 minutes and 30 yards.

 

They did give up 4 or 5 bad runs on first down, but they responded well after it happened. 

1 minute ago, buffalostu2 said:

We have a really strong defense and I think that goes without question.   But to say we are the #3 defense is not accurate IMO.  Games are decided by points, not yards.  Therefore I believe we are the # 13 ranked scoring defense and I think that is more realistic.   Are we playing better than that yes, because #13 is obviously skewed because of the two early season beatings.  

 

 

You can’t just look at one stat though.  They have had to deal with a lot of short fields and probably a record setting three and outs from the offense. Sal posted some good stats today and this D is pretty much too 5 in every category. 

[COTC]

D has been looking great. 

 

However impressive, their turn over differential is unsustainable. 

 

We need our O to put point s on the board, before the D get discouraged and starts mailing it in. 

 

We need a coach to take control of the offense, they need a leader. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by COTC

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 hours ago, Best Player Available said:

How can this be possible? A troll just said they choked.

 

Great effort. Hats off to Meatball sacks on 2 consecutive plays.

One bad series isn’t choking 

 

PSA.   Don’t feed the trolls 

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, whatdrought said:

Meanwhile, the bills offense is ranked 29th in time of possession, which makes the defensive success all the more impressive.

 

Absolutely. 

[dave mcbride]

5 hours ago, buffalostu2 said:

We have a really strong defense and I think that goes without question.   But to say we are the #3 defense is not accurate IMO.  Games are decided by points, not yards.  Therefore I believe we are the # 13 ranked scoring defense and I think that is more realistic.   Are we playing better than that yes, because #13 is obviously skewed because of the two early season beatings.  

 

The Bills D was not responsible for 10 points scored yesterday - the pick 6 and the Moore fumble, which was basically an automatic 3 points (the Texans scored 7). That stuff matters w/regard to points allowed, which can be a deceiving state.

[C.Biscuit97]

No team wastes good defenses like the Buffalo Bills.  It’s kinda of our tradition. 

[Real McClappy]

Amazing being ranked this high with the Baltimore week1 SNAFU.

 

If the O would help the D just a bit this year we could finish #1 overall with the way we are playing right now. This is one of the better Bills D I have seen in quite along time actually.

5 hours ago, COTC said:

D has been looking great. 

 

However impressive, their turn over differential is unsustainable. 

 

We need our O to put point s on the board, before the D get discouraged and starts mailing it in. 

 

We need a coach to take control of the offense, they need a leader. 

We said the same last year? For the record the Bills D got us to the playoffs last year with a bottom dwelling O.

 

Why is it unsustainable?

Edited October 15, 2018 by Real McCoy

[bobobonators]

Its an epic circle jerk w/Buffalo:  

 

With Gailey, the offense was decent, the defense was putrid. Marrone the offense was subpar, the defense was amazing. Rex the offense was good, the defense was a disaster. MCD the defense is great, the offense is epically bad.

 

one day...

[Buffalo Ballin]

Our defense is good now. Our offense is the worst though. Blasted. Wasted effort.

[Real McClappy]

8 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

They can never be on the same level, for some reason.

 

Next year the offense will find their groove and the defense will start sucking due to unforeseen circumstances.

So true.

 

I actually expected this type of team to a T out of REXY, then he does the bipolar opposite.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Real McCoy

[Big Turk]

5 hours ago, billspro said:

 

You are probably right. I didn’t look it up, I can’t remember a worse passing offense. Even the Losman era had more competent passing than this.

Losman at least completed bombs to Lee Evan for TDs every game it seemed

[NoHuddleKelly12]

8 hours ago, Kevin1778 said:

 

They are terrible on 3rd down and when the game is on the line. That is not a great defense.

 

Troll? They are TERRIBLE on 3rd down. That means they don't produce when they need to. Just like in the last 4 minutes yesterday. All I am saying is they are OVERRATED.

Wow, really? I'd say they came up from the Baltimore basement quite nicely, and I would also note that being on the field for the majority of each game can't be easy either, yet they remain opportunistic and hungry for the ball. The fact is they can't play all 60 minutes by themselves, and time of possession will eventually wear down even the best D's out there. For the most part they played lights out yesterday. You can't blame that side of the ball at this point any longer.  

[Big Turk]

5 hours ago, buffalostu2 said:

We have a really strong defense and I think that goes without question.   But to say we are the #3 defense is not accurate IMO.  Games are decided by points, not yards.  Therefore I believe we are the # 13 ranked scoring defense and I think that is more realistic.   Are we playing better than that yes, because #13 is obviously skewed because of the two early season beatings.  

 

 

Its not up to you how to decide to rank the defenses, the NFL decides that and they rank them by yards.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

5 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Losman at least completed bombs to Lee Evan for TDs every game it seemed

"Seemed" being the operative word...

[NewEraBills]

I think we are really good but not the best.  I look at 

 

1)  Redzone

2)  3rd Down

3)  Points Allowed

4)  Turnover Differential

5)  Ability to get to the QB

6) Yards Per Game (Rush and Pass)

7)  Scoring

 

I think what you will find is the Bills are very damn good in every last one of these categories with the exception of scoring; and 3rd downs.  I also think going forward the biggest issue will be the CB spot opposite Tre White.  This is really what cost us yesterday and I think it's a spot that teams like to attack so I think we are susceptible to the big play when this spot has to play single coverage.  If we could solidify that spot, I think we'd have most offenses 24-hours on lockdown.

 

[ctk232]

10 hours ago, matter2003 said:

The Bills D has moved up to 3rd overall, averaging 311 yards per game against, only 5 more than the #2 team, Jacksonville who got spanked yesterday 40-7. They are also tied with Jacksonville for 2nd in allowing only 4.9 yards per play against. Bills lead the NFL by a WIDE margin in most forced fumbles with 19(the next closest team is Arizona with 12), also tied for the NFL with the Browns in recovering 7 of those.

 

 

However, the Bills are NOT good on 3rd down, allowing a 42% conversion rate, which ranks 21st in the NFL.  

Also 27th in opp red zone scoring % (TD only) while we're adding caveats.

 

Buttloads of turnovers will only take us so far, and we need to be careful with rankings and statistics. Shutting teams down on 3rd down, and preventing red zone conversions to me mark a top defense more so than any other stat. Forced turnovers are great, when you have an offense that can capitalize on them.

1 hour ago, NewEraBills said:

I think we are really good but not the best.  I look at 

 

1)  Redzone

2)  3rd Down

3)  Points Allowed

4)  Turnover Differential

5)  Ability to get to the QB

6) Yards Per Game (Rush and Pass)

7)  Scoring

 

I think what you will find is the Bills are very damn good in every last one of these categories with the exception of scoring; and 3rd downs.  I also think going forward the biggest issue will be the CB spot opposite Tre White.  This is really what cost us yesterday and I think it's a spot that teams like to attack so I think we are susceptible to the big play when this spot has to play single coverage.  If we could solidify that spot, I think we'd have most offenses 24-hours on lockdown.

 

Red zone would be another achilles heel to add for now...

Edited October 15, 2018 by ctk232

[LSHMEAB]

The defense is very good and clearly well coached at hunting the football and forcing turnovers.

 

They are not good in the redzone and that's been an issue since McDermott's arrival. I don't really have any answers for it, but it's kind of like the opposite of the Pats who give up a ton of yards, but come up big in the RZ. 

 

It's bizarre how bad our RZ defense has been in relation to it's overall production.

Edited October 15, 2018 by LSHMEAB

[ctk232]

14 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

The defense is very good and clearly well coached at hunting the football and forcing turnovers.

 

They are not good in the redzone and that's been an issue since McDermott's arrival. I don't really have any answers for it, but it's kind of like the opposite of the Pats who give up a ton of yards, but come up big in the RZ. 

 

It's bizarre how bad our RZ defense has been in relation to it's overall production.

Completely agree - though I think we showed progress in RZ defense yesterday, I'll take a team that is in the top 5 in both RZ and 3rd down defense over forced turnovers any day. While ballhawking is phenomenally beneficial in a game and is certainly more fun to watch, unless we can do it every game it's not exactly something that can be counted on while we can't stop teams on 3rd down or in the red zone.

Edited October 15, 2018 by ctk232

[Buffalo_Stampede]

They will will wear down over the season. Hopefully they get help. 

[LSHMEAB]

9 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

Completely agree - though I think we showed progress in RZ defense yesterday, I'll take a team that is in the top 5 in both RZ and 3rd down defense over forced turnovers any day. While ballhawking is phenomenally beneficial in a game and is certainly more fun to watch, unless we can do it every game it's not exactly something that can be counted on while we can't stop teams on 3rd down or in the red zone.

It's actually really strange because usually a team is forcing turnovers because they have a good pass rush and that SHOULD translate to 3rd down defense.

 

I just don't know what the deal is with the McDermott/Frazier defense where we damn near never force teams to kick field goals once they've reached a certain point on the field.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

Losman at least completed bombs to Lee Evan for TDs every game it seemed

Fwiw , in 38 appearances as Bills QB Losman connected with Evans for a TD 16 times. 13 of those were over 20 yards. 

[ctk232]

11 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

It's actually really strange because usually a team is forcing turnovers because they have a good pass rush and that SHOULD translate to 3rd down defense.

 

I just don't know what the deal is with the McDermott/Frazier defense where we damn near never force teams to kick field goals once they've reached a certain point on the field.

Funny thing is, most of our turnovers come on QB pressures and forced fumbles - this is more a result of our tackling scheme of going for the ball. it's hurt us at times as well, but imho it's why you're seeing the turnovers we see. Far less to do with scheme, though you're right - logic would dictate that we'd be equally proficient on 3rd down.

 

We're great at forcing turnovers until we can't, once we can stop teams on 3rd down AND force these fumbles, then I'll start to really believe. We also have to keep them off the field more, some of the red zone stats and 3rd downs are just us being tired from playing defense over 50% of the time.

[BillsFan4]

The Bills defense has been playing great. 

 

Its impressive when when you think that they really don’t have many (or any...) big name, high priced players. I believe Star is the highest paid at $10M. 

 

Even more impressive when when you consider all the young guys playing important roles (Edmunds, Milano, Johnson, White). 

 

It looks like McBeane has done a good job quickly making over that side of the ball. 

Now if they can do something similar for the offense over the next 2 years, we could be in very nice shape going forward. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

The Bills defense has been playing great. 

 

Its impressive when when you think that they really don’t have many (or any...) big name, high priced players. I believe Star is the highest paid at $10M. 

 

Even more impressive when when you consider all the young guys playing important roles (Edmunds, Milano, Johnson, White). 

 

It looks like McBeane has done a good job quickly making over that side of the ball. 

Now if they can do something similar for the offense over the next 2 years, we could be in very nice shape going forward. 

I mean I expect a defensive coach to be good at defense.  I worry about the defensive coach who is pretty much running the team being in charge of offense. 

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, ctk232 said:

Also 27th in opp red zone scoring % (TD only) while we're adding caveats.

 

Buttloads of turnovers will only take us so far, and we need to be careful with rankings and statistics. Shutting teams down on 3rd down, and preventing red zone conversions to me mark a top defense more so than any other stat. Forced turnovers are great, when you have an offense that can capitalize on them.

Red zone would be another achilles heel to add for now...

 

Is it really? Or did Baltimore and SD convert so much in the first game and a half that is significantly skews the stats?  What is the red zone percentage in the last 4.5 games? I'll bet its top 10.

[T master]

As history goes in B/Lo one side of the ball is great the other side SUCKS !! I hope McD can get it together but its a tall task if he doesn't do what he said he would in  that film he made this year !

 

As a reminder he said "who ever doesn't give their all will be sitting" or something like that so he should sit KB & a couple of others & bring back others like maybe Reilly to see what he could bring because it's got to be better than what he kept !!  

[Big Turk]

51 minutes ago, T master said:

As history goes in B/Lo one side of the ball is great the other side SUCKS !! I hope McD can get it together but its a tall task if he doesn't do what he said he would in  that film he made this year !

 

As a reminder he said "who ever doesn't give their all will be sitting" or something like that so he should sit KB & a couple of others & bring back others like maybe Reilly to see what he could bring because it's got to be better than what he kept !!  

Reilly was great against 3rd and 4th stringers and dudes out of the NFL working at Wal-Mart. Against NFL starters and backups not so much.  

Edited October 16, 2018 by matter2003

[BillsFan4]

14 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean I expect a defensive coach to be good at defense.  I worry about the defensive coach who is pretty much running the team being in charge of offense. 

 

It doesn’t always work out that way though (that a defensive/offensive coach has a good defense/offense). Look at Bill O’Brien for example. He’s supposed to be an offensive guru and his defense has carried him almost his entire time in Houston. 

Or Doug Marrone, who’s defense carried him in buffalo and now (mostly) in Jacksonville. Or Rex Ryan in his time here... 

 

Id be a lot more worried If McDermott’s defense stunk. That would be highly concerning because that’s his area of expertise. 

 

I don’t think you have to discard McDermott just because he is a defensive minded coach though. 

 

It can take time for both sides of the ball to come together. Look around the NFL. How many teams are great on both sides of the ball? 

 

 

 

I totally get that people want a top tier offense. I do too. I get jealous watching these exciting offenses around the NFL. 

 

 

And offense is obviously a concern so far in McD’s tenure. But I feel like they really haven’t gotten around to building up the offensive side of the ball yet. McDermott obviously focused on building his defense first. 

 

Now that they have their (developmental) QB, I fully expect the offensive side of the ball to be the focus this coming offseason. So I am trying to at least reserve my judgement until then. And until Josh doesn’t look like he’s drowning anymore... which is probably my biggest concern at the moment (but I put drafting Allen more on Beane than McDermott. I am more concerned about our GM than I am about our head coach). 

 

 

 

 

[iinii]

On 10/15/2018 at 8:46 AM, Juice_32 said:

Milano was so close to grabbing the fumble Hughes forced on the Texans last scoring drive. We'd have had the ball on the Texans 20 with 3 to go, oh well.

 

Tell me your thoughts on the Chiefs D.

The part about how Reggie Ragland was a beast on the inside, playing behind an undermanned front? 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Awesome. Now it's just gonna go to waste because of that fool Daboll.

[fridge]

The third down stat is hilarious and embodies this franchise perfectly.

 

I believe we gave up another 3rd and 15+ on Sunday, as is tradition.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

On 10/15/2018 at 6:08 AM, Kevin1778 said:

 

They are terrible on 3rd down and when the game is on the line. That is not a great defense.

 

Troll? They are TERRIBLE on 3rd down. That means they don't produce when they need to. Just like in the last 4 minutes yesterday. All I am saying is they are OVERRATED.

 

I'm curious if these 3rd down stats are still skewed by the first 1.5 games played to start the season. The further we get away from those games the better the numbers keep getting. Take away the first 1.5 games and the pick six and the defense is giving up something like 13 ppg. And this is all while being supported, or dragged down, by the worst offense in the league. The defense has simply been amazing considering the start to the season and the lack of offensive support.

 

Overrated? Well, #3 is a very high ranking so i guess you could ague they are overrated. Where would you rank them top 10 still? Still not bad if so. I think the fact that they don't get any support from the offense actually makes it harder to say they are over rated though. And while the PI in the endzone hurt us, they did exactly what a great defense would be expected to do after that penalty. If the defense is a fraud the Texans score a TD there.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 10/15/2018 at 9:27 AM, Bangarang said:

Another great defense wasted by a piss poor offense.

 

Yeah, I know it sucks, but it's not surprising either. That's the side of the ball that they dumped most of their resources. Next year I'm guessing they do the opposite, but Kyle Williams most likely won't be here by then who's been an absolute force this year.

On 10/15/2018 at 12:35 PM, billspro said:

 

You are probably right. I didn’t look it up, I can’t remember a worse passing offense. Even the Losman era had more competent passing than this.

 

The Loserman era looks like the 'greatest show on turf' compared to these bums.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, fridge said:

The third down stat is hilarious and embodies this franchise perfectly.

 

I believe we gave up another 3rd and 15+ on Sunday, as is tradition.

One or two bad plays Sunday and a crap pi in the EZ marred a great effort. 

[Hebert19]

On 10/15/2018 at 9:08 AM, Kevin1778 said:

 

They are terrible on 3rd down and when the game is on the line. That is not a great defense.

 

Troll? They are TERRIBLE on 3rd down. That means they don't produce when they need to. Just like in the last 4 minutes yesterday. All I am saying is they are OVERRATED.

They had let teams convert like 70 percent of 3rd downs in first 2 games so yes.  Terrible in those games.  Since then.  Different story. 

22 hours ago, ctk232 said:

Also 27th in opp red zone scoring % (TD only) while we're adding caveats.

 

Buttloads of turnovers will only take us so far, and we need to be careful with rankings and statistics. Shutting teams down on 3rd down, and preventing red zone conversions to me mark a top defense more so than any other stat. Forced turnovers are great, when you have an offense that can capitalize on them.

Red zone would be another achilles heel to add for now...

Again.  Not lately.  Redzone we gave up 8 straight TDs to start the season.  That will sku the average. Same with the 39 ppg thru the first 2. Everything has dropped since.  

[ctk232]

1 hour ago, Hebert19 said:

They had let teams convert like 70 percent of 3rd downs in first 2 games so yes.  Terrible in those games.  Since then.  Different story. 

Again.  Not lately.  Redzone we gave up 8 straight TDs to start the season.  That will sku the average. Same with the 39 ppg thru the first 2. Everything has dropped since.  

Tres valid in regards to averages - would still like to see the trend become a pattern become commonplace, as would we all. While many other factors come into play, our red zone defense didn't start showing they could put this together consistently until the Titans game; this is still the defense that put up those numbers against the Ravens, Chargers, and Packers. Let's wait more than five games to say our defense is a top 5 defense without the added caveat of *so far*, though I agree it's absolutely gotten better and turned around.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

Just adding the Bills tweet 

[The_Dude]

And what does the 3rd ranked defense coupled with the 32nd ranked offense net you?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, The_Dude said:

And what does the 3rd ranked defense coupled with the 32nd ranked offense net you?

Ulcers???

 

 

[The_Dude]

2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Ulcers???

 

 

 

Bingo.