Uncle Joe Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 So there are a lot of posters saying we need OL, we need WR. I think we need a bonafide OL/WR aka TE. One that can block, catch and run over DBs. I believe we started the season with 5 because we don't have one that is in the upper tier: Clay - over paid in free agency - adequate but doesn't seem to have any nasty after catching the ball (in addition to being oft injured) Thomas - converted QB experiment Croom - converted WR experiment Lee - forte was blocking - now released (for the time being) O'Leary - release - general consensus, not a game changer I don't expect any changes this year but it would be nice to address this position next year. Kill a couple birds with one stone (OL/WR) and not use 4 roster spots (prior to today) on this position. Go Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offyourocker Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 This team needs a real “quite a few positions” 2 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 What's wrong with watching Charles Clay go through the motions for 5 years and never really being a factor. That contract is definitely up there as one of the worst. Can't wait until he is off the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 We can certainly include TE on the list of needs. One could make the argument that we have a need for a quality starter at every position on offense, other than maybe LT, QB and FB. Even at QB, we still need a veteran back-up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 We need a lot of talent. Even if these guys hit on all free agents and draft, I still think it could be til 2020 until we have a contender against the likes of KC, Pats, Rams, and Pit. i do believe in this team, just we are not a couple of players away. We need several studs over two years and we could become a perennial playoff team. I hate even thinking about it, but have to be realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said: We need a lot of talent. Even if these guys hit on all free agents and draft, I still think it could be til 2020 until we have a contender against the likes of KC, Pats, Rams, and Pit. i do believe in this team, just we are not a couple of players away. We need several studs over two years and we could become a perennial playoff team. I hate even thinking about it, but have to be realistic. If we end up in the top 3 picks, I am hoping someone likes Lock or Herbert enough to want to come up. Fortunately the draft is very deep on the defensive line and receiver. If we were to end up with the first pick we could possibly get a huge haul picking up extra picks in that draft and maybe a future first, while still staying in the top ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folz Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 I like Charles, but he has been a huge disappointment throughout his time in Buffalo. Some could argue that his lack of stats is due to bad quarterbacking, but if you are actually a great player, there is no way that the coaches don't design more plays for you and have your QB rely on you. What's the old saying, a good TE is a quarterback's best friend. Remember early in Jim Kelly's career, Pete Metzelars was his favorite target, he went to him early and often and then eventually the WRs got more involved and started getting more targets than Pete. That has been the story for many QBs. Right now, if Clay or any of the TEs were worth their salt, they should be Josh's go-to guy, until he and the wideouts start gaining more chemistry and the game starts to slow down for him. Over his first 3 seasons in Buffalo, Clay is averaging 6 targets, 3 receptions, 34 yards, and 0.1875 TDs per game. So far this year, he's averaging 3.5 targets, 2 receptions, 22 yards, and 0 TDs per game. And it's not like he is a world class blocker either. He's ok, but not why you'd keep him on the team. I agree with the OP, we need a real, all-around TE on this team...but unfortunately, we will probably have to wait until next year. Hopefully there are some good young TEs in the draft. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 … And a real offensive-line... And a real offensive-line coach... And a real offensive coordinator... While you're out shopping, grab us a real HC and GM too! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 58 minutes ago, Uncle Joe said: So there are a lot of posters saying we need OL, we need WR. I think we need a bonafide OL/WR aka TE. One that can block, catch and run over DBs. I believe we started the season with 5 because we don't have one that is in the upper tier: Clay - over paid in free agency - adequate but doesn't seem to have any nasty after catching the ball (in addition to being oft injured) Thomas - converted QB experiment Croom - converted WR experiment Lee - forte was blocking - now released (for the time being) O'Leary - release - general consensus, not a game changer I don't expect any changes this year but it would be nice to address this position next year. Kill a couple birds with one stone (OL/WR) and not use 4 roster spots (prior to today) on this position. Go Bills. Well Clay was an attempt at that...he was a top 100 player when we paid him. He has been playing with that injury for years......it is about time to part ways with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st pete gogolak Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 I hear that the Gronkowski kid out of Arizona is pretty good. Home town product. Probably be able to get him early second round. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv Levy Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Bills haven't had a real effective TE since Pete Metzelaars. They have been lousy at addressing the position since forever. Very tired of it IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 12 minutes ago, Marv Levy said: Bills haven't had a real effective TE since Pete Metzelaars. They have been lousy at addressing the position since forever. Very tired of it IMO. ...too much stock in the youngsters and O'Leary let go...GAFFE.......too much stock in Peterman and AJ let go...ANOTHER GAFFE.................Cordy Glenn let go and now has started 4 games for Bengals and Dalton only sacked 7 times while our OL is WikiLEAKS...ANOTHER GAFFE............... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Is it after this season that we can move on from Clay without terrible cap ramifications? I bet this is it for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Augie said: Is it after this season that we can move on from Clay without terrible cap ramifications? I bet this is it for him. ....yup...designate him as a post June 1 cut and spread it over two years IMO......... Potential Out: 2019, 4 yr, $33,500,000; $4,500,000 dead cap Edited October 6, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Don't stop at TE. The entire offense needs a talent upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Don't stop at TE. The entire offense needs a talent upgrade. ...well Rodak DID recommend trading Shady and Benjamin, right?................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 (edited) TE - needs upgrade C- needs upgrade LG- needs upgrade RG- needs upgrade RT- needs upgrade WR1- needs upgrade WR2 needs upgrade TE2- needs upgrade WR3 - needs upgrade DE2- needs upgrade OLB needs upgrade CB2 - needs upgrade CB3- needs upgrade Can we see a theme here? Lots of work left to do in 2019. I'm doing my best to survive through this **** season. Edited October 6, 2018 by BillsRdue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 41 minutes ago, Augie said: Is it after this season that we can move on from Clay without terrible cap ramifications? I bet this is it for him. Yes, and compared to other positions this years TE FAs are looking pretty good. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/tight-end/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: Yes, and compared to other positions this years TE FAs are looking pretty good. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/tight-end/ Two things shock me here: 1) Something is breaking our way for a change? And even more shocking..... 2) Benjamin Watson is still playing? He’s almost as old as Brady, but he actually has to do athletic/physical stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatComeback Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 The story of Clay in Buffalo is somewhat are to evaluate. There’s no doubt the Bills overpaid but that’s what happens in FA, especially with a restricted FA. If you look look at his numbers, he’s pretty much on part what he did in Miami. His receptions and yardage are down a little but not by much. I think the Bills gave a slightly above average TE money that you’d pay an All-Pro TE. In defense of Clay he has never gotten solid QB play or the number of targets that other TE’s have. In Tyrod, he had a QB that was not good throwing over the middle which is where more TE’s make their living. Also Clay fought through some injuries which affected his numbers. I agree that the Bills could use an upgrade at TE. I’m 50/50 on whether Clay will be back in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Augie said: Two things shock me here: 1) Something is breaking our way for a change? And even more shocking..... 2) Benjamin Watson is still playing? He’s almost as old as Brady, but he actually has to do athletic/physical stuff. ....and Watson is playing real well at 38. LOL He has 12 catches for 157 yards................he would be the Bills leading receiver! That fact alone is scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Marv Levy said: Bills haven't had a real effective TE since Pete Metzelaars. They have been lousy at addressing the position since forever. Very tired of it IMO. Yeah, since the Bills used a 1st round pick on Tony Hunter in the 1983 draft, the highest picks used on a TE have been a 2nd round pick (#61) in the 1994 draft on freakin' Lonnie Johnson and a 3rd round pick (#86) in the 2005 draft on Kevin Everett. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 3 hours ago, Uncle Joe said: So there are a lot of posters saying we need OL, we need WR. I think we need a bonafide OL/WR aka TE. One that can block, catch and run over DBs. I believe we started the season with 5 because we don't have one that is in the upper tier: Clay - over paid in free agency - adequate but doesn't seem to have any nasty after catching the ball (in addition to being oft injured) Thomas - converted QB experiment Croom - converted WR experiment Lee - forte was blocking - now released (for the time being) O'Leary - release - general consensus, not a game changer I don't expect any changes this year but it would be nice to address this position next year. Kill a couple birds with one stone (OL/WR) and not use 4 roster spots (prior to today) on this position. Go Bills. We should have signed Jimmy Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: We should have signed Jimmy Graham Hmm? Play with Aaron Rodgers in GB or come to Buffalo with an unknown QB situation. I'm sure it was a tough decision for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 3 hours ago, Marv Levy said: Bills haven't had a real effective TE since Pete Metzelaars. They have been lousy at addressing the position since forever. Very tired of it IMO. Jay Remeirsma wasn’t too bad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Hmm? Play with Aaron Rodgers in GB or come to Buffalo with an unknown QB situation. I'm sure it was a tough decision for him. maybe if we had rebuilt our offense like we should have , he may have wanted to play for the big armed rookie instead of the fragile Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said: maybe if we had rebuilt our offense like we should have , he may have wanted to play for the big armed rookie instead of the fragile Rodgers. Yeah sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: What's wrong with watching Charles Clay go through the motions for 5 years and never really being a factor. That contract is definitely up there as one of the worst. Can't wait until he is off the team. Cut ‘em all. 4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: We need a lot of talent. Even if these guys hit on all free agents and draft, I still think it could be til 2020 until we have a contender against the likes of KC, Pats, Rams, and Pit. i do believe in this team, just we are not a couple of players away. We need several studs over two years and we could become a perennial playoff team. I hate even thinking about it, but have to be realistic. I think two years is very optimistic. The Bills are still losing players. In two years K Williams, L Alexander and L McCoy will all be gone. So add these positions to the list where high level starters are needed. Edited October 6, 2018 by vincec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauleeeWalnuts Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 This team needs a real team 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 4 hours ago, Augie said: Two things shock me here: 1) Something is breaking our way for a change? And even more shocking..... 2) Benjamin Watson is still playing? He’s almost as old as Brady, but he actually has to do athletic/physical stuff. 4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: ....and Watson is playing real well at 38. LOL He has 12 catches for 157 yards................he would be the Bills leading receiver! That fact alone is scary. I remember playing Madden 2005 (where the 2004 draft class were rookies), and I always traded for him with every franchise I started. Dude put up like thirteen 1000+ yd years in a row lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 2 hours ago, vincec said: Cut ‘em all. I think two years is very optimistic. The Bills are still losing players. In two years K Williams, L Alexander and L McCoy will all be gone. So add these positions to the list where high level starters are needed. I know the cut em all is sarcastic but Clay doesn't care at all. Do you disagree that Clay was a bad contract or that he hasn't had much impact in his time here despite the large $$$ in that contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: I know the cut em all is sarcastic but Clay doesn't care at all. Do you disagree that Clay was a bad contract or that he hasn't had much impact in his time here despite the large $$$ in that contract? He hasn't been great, but he's the best TE on the roster. You can't keep cutting your starting players without having a replacement in hand if you want to win games. You just keep digging yourself a bigger hole. If they find someone better then by all means cut him, but until then he should stay. Edited October 7, 2018 by vincec 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Let's not pretend that Clay is terrible. He's better than most starting TE's, but far from elite. Most of the money in his contract was up front, so it makes no sense to trade him now because there is nothing behind him. We'd be taking a big step backwards. Try putting some talent around him and see how that goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 We've need a TE for 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, vincec said: He hasn't been great, but he's the best TE on the roster. You can't keep cutting your starting players without having a replacement in hand if you want to win games. You just keep digging yourself a bigger hole. If they find someone better then by all means cut him, but until then he should stay. Cut??? I'm sure they could get a decent pick for him. Why just cut him and get nothing? I agree with your 1st point though. He can't single handedly make up for a team that has no one else at TE or WR worth mentioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, GreggTX said: Let's not pretend that Clay is terrible. He's better than most starting TE's, but far from elite. Most of the money in his contract was up front, so it makes no sense to trade him now because there is nothing behind him. We'd be taking a big step backwards. Try putting some talent around him and see how that goes. I would think that even if the Bills keep Clay next year they got to go out and get his replacement. If a possible #1 TE is out there in FA they got to go after him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrivefourfive Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 7 hours ago, folz said: I like Charles, but he has been a huge disappointment throughout his time in Buffalo. Some could argue that his lack of stats is due to bad quarterbacking, but if you are actually a great player, there is no way that the coaches don't design more plays for you and have your QB rely on you. What's the old saying, a good TE is a quarterback's best friend. Remember early in Jim Kelly's career, Pete Metzelars was his favorite target, he went to him early and often and then eventually the WRs got more involved and started getting more targets than Pete. That has been the story for many QBs. Right now, if Clay or any of the TEs were worth their salt, they should be Josh's go-to guy, until he and the wideouts start gaining more chemistry and the game starts to slow down for him. Over his first 3 seasons in Buffalo, Clay is averaging 6 targets, 3 receptions, 34 yards, and 0.1875 TDs per game. So far this year, he's averaging 3.5 targets, 2 receptions, 22 yards, and 0 TDs per game. And it's not like he is a world class blocker either. He's ok, but not why you'd keep him on the team. I agree with the OP, we need a real, all-around TE on this team...but unfortunately, we will probably have to wait until next year. Hopefully there are some good young TEs in the draft. What do you like about Charles..? That’s some weird evidence you give in support of how you feel about Clay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Clay's entire time in Buffalo has been a bust. The Thomas experiment is a joke. Lee was awful and never should've been kept over O'Leary. Croom is the only young guy with a little promise. It's like we're an expansion team. We need 2 of every position except qb, lb and safety. And obviously we won't be able to fill all these spots this upcoming offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafan Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 12 hours ago, folz said: I like Charles, but he has been a huge disappointment throughout his time in Buffalo. Some could argue that his lack of stats is due to bad quarterbacking, but if you are actually a great player, there is no way that the coaches don't design more plays for you and have your QB rely on you. What's the old saying, a good TE is a quarterback's best friend. Remember early in Jim Kelly's career, Pete Metzelars was his favorite target, he went to him early and often and then eventually the WRs got more involved and started getting more targets than Pete. That has been the story for many QBs. Right now, if Clay or any of the TEs were worth their salt, they should be Josh's go-to guy, until he and the wideouts start gaining more chemistry and the game starts to slow down for him. Over his first 3 seasons in Buffalo, Clay is averaging 6 targets, 3 receptions, 34 yards, and 0.1875 TDs per game. So far this year, he's averaging 3.5 targets, 2 receptions, 22 yards, and 0 TDs per game. And it's not like he is a world class blocker either. He's ok, but not why you'd keep him on the team. I agree with the OP, we need a real, all-around TE on this team...but unfortunately, we will probably have to wait until next year. Hopefully there are some good young TEs in the draft. I do recall many times though that he was wide open and tyrod wouldn't see him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, st pete gogolak said: I hear that the Gronkowski kid out of Arizona is pretty good. Home town product. Probably be able to get him early second round. Saw him on sports hi-lites and features Channel 2 and 4 and 7 all the time as a local kid tearing up the NCAA guess OBD didn’t care about good players Edited October 7, 2018 by row_33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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