Ease up on Allen

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Maybe it's the eternal optimist in me, or simply refusing to believe that the Bills could screw up QB again after Kelly, so I took the liberty of digging a little bit into the rookie seasons of another HOF great QB that others have also posted about as a point of comparison, Troy Aikman, who endured (and his fanbase by extension) one of the most cursed rookie campaigns (1-15) of all time in 1989 before hitting SB glory (starting with 2x against our beloved Bills of course). As a side note, his supporting cast in 1989 already included a lot of the names some of you old enough will remember from their SB run, including Ken Norton Jr., Jim Jeffcoat, Daryl (Moose) Johnston, Mark Stepnoski, et. al. Oh, and that one win? Aikman wasn't even on the field for that, as Steve Walsh, the other QB Dallas drafted that year since no one was 100% sold on Aikman coming out either, started for 5 games while Aikman sat injured.

 

So take heart fellow Bills fans, and let these quick hits of why Aikman's rookie year will still wind up as worse than Allen's (through Week 4, was for sure) hopefully make you feel a little less jumpy this morning:

 

(1) Local media hated the 1st round pick: http://thecomeback.com/freezingcoldtakes/nfl/troy-aikman-dallas-cowboys-draft-blew-it.html

Nothing that happened in 1989 would have done anything to make Al Carter of the Houston Chronicle think that he was barking up the wrong tree...probably a good thing that he didn't have a Twitter account back then to whip up the fanbase into a further frenzy with his "hot" takes of how Aikman was a bust.

 

(2) For a proud franchise which was used to a dynasty of success under Staubach and Landry, going 1-15 in 1989 was actually almost inexplicably worse than going 3-13 in 1988, yet the Cowboys managed to do just that, and Jimmy Johnson somehow survived without being run out on a rail.(The patience paid off Bills fans...)

 

(3) Week 4 of the 1989 season featured the Cowboys going down in flames to the Giants, 30-13, dropping them to 0-4 on the year, and, Aikman left the game with a broken finger, and lost valuable starting reps for the next 5 weeks after that. (Can you even imagine this happening to Allen yesterday??) 

 

(4) Aikman's gaudy statistics, especially his completion % and TD/INT ratio in the games that he did start that year, would make even Peterman blush. How would all of you enjoy watching a 52.9% completion rate, double the picks with 18 versus 9 TD's, and a paltry 6.0 yards per completion average?? http://www.nfl.com/player/troyaikman/2499369/careerstats

 

(5) Aikman's O-line surrendered 19 sacks where the pounding he took set the stage for his chronic back and concussion issues which dogged his career. Here's a nice "lookout" block from the interior of his line in 1989 as a visual aid: 

 

However, it is also undisputed that the nucleus of the line in 1989 resulted in excellent line play in the years following. 

 

Final Note: before "Peterman threw 5 picks" points this out for me, Steve Walsh appears to have been a more serviceable backup to Aikman than Peterman is to Allen--so there's one point where maybe the analogy comes out worse for us. But other than that, who in 1989 could have foreseen what was to come based on what happened Aikman's rookie year? FYI, his numbers his sophomore campaign weren't a ton better, but there was steady improvement with the patience shown.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BmarvB]

Give the kid a break. He's a rookie who started in his third ever game in the NFL and it showed. He has no veteran mentor outside of Nate Peterman, an OC who and QB coach who never played the position before, WR's who can't get open to save their lives, a running game they're not even using to help him out, and let's not even discuss the O-line. Granted he's going to make his share of rookie mistakes (holding the ball too long, misfires, asinine decisions under pressure that lead to foolish INT's) but still, what does he really have to work with? Opposing DC's are going to throw everything including the kitchen sink at him to screw him up and throw him off his game.

 

It's going to be a brutal learning experience for him, but he can only get better from it.

 

[Augie]

I’m not down on him at all. I expected rough patches, even if he had a lot more help. My only prayer is that he isn’t somehow physically broken or otherwise ruined. Hopefully he’s strong enough physically and mentally to withstand a difficult start and learn and grow from it. Get some help around him and let him learn.  Time will tell, but THIS is not the time. 

 

 

.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Augie

[TheElectricCompany]

4 minutes ago, BmarvB said:

 Opposing DC's are going to throw everything including the kitchen sink at him to screw him up and throw him off his game.

 

Yes, this is an appropriate strategy against all QBs in the league. 

 

[TheElectricCompany]

Different era, comparisons are moot. 

Aikman threw more than 20 TDs ONCE in his career. 

 

[HOUSE]

LOL, Remember the Patience Poll?

 

78% said they are willing to give any rookie QB 2 years....

 

Looks like the 22% WANT IT NOW!!!

 

Must be the Millenniums

Edited October 1, 2018 by THE SLAMMER

[Ramza86]

Why are we worried about Allen?

 

Hes the least of my concerns on the offensive side of the ball. Until I see cover1 all 22 breakdown of WRs consistently getting open, protection being solid and THEN Josh making poor decisions...im not too worried about him yet. 

 

Im worried about the staff...the offensive line and the WRs more than anything.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

7 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Different era, comparisons are moot. 

Aikman threw more than 20 TDs ONCE in his career. 

 

I'm not trying to compare eras or discuss how much those are the same or different. All I am trying to point out, is that the overall circumstances faced by rookies who carry high expectations, can be overwhelming and appear to produce a bust, when just a little bit of patience could go a long way. This is not to say that automatically having patience will produce good results, as we still don't know obviously how all of this will play out with Allen. But there are comparisons to be made with future HOF QB's having to take their lumps, regardless of era played in.

[BmarvB]

16 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Yes, this is an appropriate strategy against all QBs in the league. 

 

True. It's all part of his brutal learning experience.

Edited October 1, 2018 by BmarvB

[TheElectricCompany]

4 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I'm not trying to compare eras or discuss how much those are the same or different. All I am trying to point out, is that the overall circumstances faced by rookies who carry high expectations, can be overwhelming and appear to produce a bust, when just a little bit of patience could go a long way. This is not to say that automatically having patience will produce good results, as we still don't know obviously how all of this will play out with Allen. But there are comparisons to be made with future HOF QB's having to take their lumps, regardless of era played in.

 

There are also future HOFers who have produced from Day 1. 

There are many ways to develop a franchise QB, but the path the Bills have chosen is concerning. 

[Ramza86]

Hes the most raw qb of this class and has the worst supporting cast I have ever seen. 

 

Id say hes not doing too bad compared to Darnold who has a much better roster. 

 

[schoolhouserock]

7 minutes ago, THE SLAMMER said:

LOL, Remember the Patience Poll?

 

78% said they are willing to give any rookie QB 2 years....

 

Looks like the 12% WANT IT NOW!!!

 

Must be the Millenniums

 

What do the other 10% want?

[Augie]

1 minute ago, schoolhouserock said:

 

What do the other 10% want?

 

I speak for my people, and I say............FREE WINGS! 

Edited October 1, 2018 by Augie

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

There are also future HOFers who have produced from Day 1. 

There are many ways to develop a franchise QB, but the path the Bills have chosen is concerning. 

I will grant you there are many questions that need to be answered by this regime--what answers they provide will hopefully pay off quicker than later, but this year is looking more and more like moral victories at most can be hoped for.

[RobH063]

I think Allen could develop into a heck of a QB but realistically, how does Allen, or any QB for that matter, learn, improve, become really good with a bad O-line, bad receivers, bad coaching, anemic run game, etc. He's going to learn for sure but because it's such chaos after the snap of the ball he has no time on most plays to learn anything. He's not stupid. He knows the talent level he's playing with is sub par. Is his situation going to offer him the very best learning experience or is it just going to teach him to become Captain check down the III and to not get killed? Unfortunately, I think he gets hurt before the end of the season and the Bills finish out the season with Peterman and some journeyman they're forced to pick up so they are carrying two QB's and Logan Thomas as the emergency 3rd QB.

[LSHMEAB]

Nobody on a message board has the authority to make any decisions as to what the Bills do with Allen.

 

The attack posts aimed at members voicing their concerns about Allen is the real problem.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Yes, this is an appropriate strategy against all QBs in the league. 

 

 

you  might be surprised how often it isn't....

 

 

[Ol Dirty B]

1 hour ago, BmarvB said:

Give the kid a break. He's a rookie who started in his third ever game in the NFL and it showed. He has no veteran mentor outside of Nate Peterman, an OC who and QB coach who never played the position before, WR's who can't get open to save their lives, a running game they're not even using to help him out, and let's not even discuss the O-line. Granted he's going to make his share of rookie mistakes (holding the ball too long, misfires, asinine decisions under pressure that lead to foolish INT's) but still, what does he really have to work with? Opposing DC's are going to throw everything including the kitchen sink at him to screw him up and throw him off his game.

 

It's going to be a brutal learning experience for him, but he can only get better from it.

 

 

I agree, but every excuse you list for him is every reason to clean house.... and that turns into process patience bull ****. It's an annoying cycle

[Jerome007]

6 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Nobody on a message board has the authority to make any decisions as to what the Bills do with Allen.

 

The attack posts aimed at members voicing their concerns about Allen is the real problem.

What? Voicing legit concerns is one thing. Most of the negative comments are simply "he's a bust" "a joke" and whatnot, and then wait to jump on him when he has a bad game to prove "they're right".

 

His flaws are well known. So what remains to be seen, and only time can tell, is if how quickly he learns overall and shores up SOME of his flaws during the year.

[teef]

1 minute ago, Jerome007 said:

What? Voicing legit concerns is one thing. Most of the negative comments are simply "he's a bust" "a joke" and whatnot, and then wait to jump on him when he has a bad game to prove "they're right".

 

His flaws are well known. So what remains to be seen, and only time can tell, is if how quickly he learns overall and shores up SOME of his flaws during the year.

some people have a hard time realizing what's actually discussion vs pooping in every thread with the same meathead, angry comment.  i didn't like the allen pick, but since he's a bill, i'm pulling for him every step of the way.  other will go out of their way to bag on this kid for the exact reason you stated.

 

we all knew there was going to be a group that doesn't have the ability to be patient to see if a qb develops.  !@#$ em.

[nedboy7]

The QB ain’t the problem.  We got some serious coaching issues. You get em teef 

Edited October 1, 2018 by nedboy7

[Ol Dirty B]

53 minutes ago, THE SLAMMER said:

LOL, Remember the Patience Poll?

 

78% said they are willing to give any rookie QB 2 years....

 

Looks like the 22% WANT IT NOW!!!

 

Must be the Millenniums

 

Thank me for your social security B word. 

 

And then write your meaningless awful observations and go on about the rockpile.

 

Old ass Bills fans can be pretty annoying. I'm tired of it. 

[teef]

1 minute ago, nedboy7 said:

The QB ain’t the problem.  We got some serious coaching issues. You get em teef 

i got this!

[Happy]

9 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

you  might be surprised how often it isn't....

 

 

 

Right, like our defensive "strategy" yesterday.  Put the pressure on the DBs to cover their WRs and hope the base front four can get to Rodgers.

[Philo]

1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Thank me for your social security B word. 

 

And then write your meaningless awful observations and go on about the rockpile.

 

Old ass Bills fans can be pretty annoying. I'm tired of it. 

 

You seem nice.

 

Why can't we be civil after a loss?

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, Philo Beddoe said:

 

You seem nice.

 

Why can't we be civil after a loss?

 

Because that guy says nothing but stupid cliches. Let's blame millenials.... he's going to say it's all a joke but it's not.

 

 

[Philo]

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Because that guy says nothing but stupid cliches. Let's blame millenials.... he's going to say it's all a joke but it's not.

 

 

 

I get you. I'm not defending the guy. I just don't like seeing fans turn on each other with this petty crap. 

[Boca BIlls]

Don't need to ease up on Allen... he is an adult in an adults business. 

[LSHMEAB]

8 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

What? Voicing legit concerns is one thing. Most of the negative comments are simply "he's a bust" "a joke" and whatnot, and then wait to jump on him when he has a bad game to prove "they're right".

 

His flaws are well known. So what remains to be seen, and only time can tell, is if how quickly he learns overall and shores up SOME of his flaws during the year.

So you only want to hear criticism with the caveat that he's raw and is very likely to develop into a high quality starting NFL QB?

 

What if he actually is a bust and the terrible play we're witnessing doesn't have a silver lining?

 

He's the most inaccurate QB in the NFL and I don't personally think that's a flaw that can be corrected. I bought into the footwork argument, etc. because I WANT TO BELIEVE. At this point, I'm beyond skeptical and I'm kind of tired of Allen apologists acting like that makes me any less of a fan.

[row_33]

20 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Right, like our defensive "strategy" yesterday.  Put the pressure on the DBs to cover their WRs and hope the base front four can get to Rodgers.

 

is there any point trying to make an elite QB "panic" and lose his cool when you can't deliver the rush?
 

 

[Ittakestime]

Once he starts to read a defense, I will give him a break, but just like at Wyoming, he creates his own problems because he has no idea what he is doing out there.

 

One of the most physically gifted athletes this league will ever see, but mentally there is a lot to be desired. 

 

He needs to learn protections and defense ASAP.

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Ittakestime said:

Once he starts to read a defense, I will give him a break, but just like at Wyoming, he creates his own problems because he has no idea what he is doing out there.

 

One of the most physically gifted athletes this league will ever see, but mentally there is a lot to be desired. 

 

He needs to learn protections and defense ASAP.

i thought you just said he would never be able to this?

Edited October 1, 2018 by teef

[Nuncha]

Rookies have bad games....it will happen frequently until he gets more experience.

1 hour ago, schoolhouserock said:

 

What do the other 10% want?

Peterman?

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

32 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Thank me for your social security B word. 

 

And then write your meaningless awful observations and go on about the rockpile.

 

Old ass Bills fans can be pretty annoying. I'm tired of it. 

 

are you one of those sensitive millennials? 

 

you seem like the sensitive type. as for the ss you claim you need to be thanked for. that's a real crock of ....

 

as for allen, if you based anything off the negativity that gets slung around this joint, he will never succeed and the team will remain in the cellar for the next 20 years.

 

you would think those who constantly wallow, moan and cry the blues over a team that they may never be happy with, would just find another sport/hobby or some other form of entertainment.  it's obvious they can't deal with the buffalo bills?

 

but that would take all the fun out of plastering this place with their negativity that they seem to get great pleasure from.

(oh I know, they have every right to B word and moan because well, they're season ticket holders and demand a better product)

Edited October 1, 2018 by no name

[Tenhigh]

29 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

you  might be surprised how often it isn't....

 

 

Rexy actually kept us in a game with Brady without pressure, remember that?

 

1 hour ago, schoolhouserock said:

 

What do the other 10% want?

 

Math lessons.

[vorpma]

39 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Nobody on a message board has the authority to make any decisions as to what the Bills do with Allen.

 

The attack posts aimed at members voicing their concerns about Allen is the real problem.

Give me a break!

29 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Thank me for your social security B word. 

 

And then write your meaningless awful observations and go on about the rockpile.

 

Old ass Bills fans can be pretty annoying. I'm tired of it. 

So can young ass fans who throw constant whining temper tantrums because they want and they want it now! And most of them somewhat uninformed or even ignorant about football - go the Mickey D's and order a Happy Meal! And God help them if they don't meet your time requirements!

[Da webster guy]

We look like a team that is last in active roster spending ($119M) and first by $53M in dead cap.   Nobody is even close to that.

 

We look like a team with a new OC, two surprise retired offensive linemen who were solid players, and a rookie qb with very limited weapons.

 

How can anyone expect we'd be more or less than we are now?  If anything, I'm optimistic because our two first round picks do not look like busts, and we may have added some late round starters with Harry, Ray Ray, Taron etc.   That's why I was so pumped about the Minnesota win, because it was FUN.  We have to look for the FUN inside the season, because it's not going to be fun most of the time.

 

I'm predicting that all four teams we've played so far this season are playoff teams this year. (assuming chargers get their defense together in time)

We will get a few more wins along the way, but ultimately it's about the $100M and 10 picks we have next year to shop with.   

 

Should have given up the farm for Khalil, who is the biggest game changer on either side of the ball in the NFL.   Considering we'll probably burn a first round pick on a pass rusher anyway, and he would have liked to play here, Beane missed the boat on that guy.  But our $100M nest egg is still intact, and we'll be ready to add some serious talent next year. 

 

 

 

[row_33]

been waiting for every year of 44 as a fan when Ferguson and Kelly weren't in their primes

 

what's another 2 or 12 years

 

 

[starrymessenger]

We will know a lot more about Allen's chances by the end of the year but it's unlikely we will have anywhere near a reliable final opinion.  It took Steve Young longer to pan out. Along these lines the timing of the rebuild is not ideal. If the Bills look mainly to the draft to shore up the O-line and WR group they will likely have to wait a year or two for these guys, even if top shelf prospects, to begin realizing their potential - see David DeCastro, Corey Davis, Mike Williams and many others). I expect they will be very aggressive in free agency.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, BmarvB said:

Give the kid a break. He's a rookie who started in his third ever game in the NFL and it showed. He has no veteran mentor outside of Nate Peterman, an OC who and QB coach who never played the position before, WR's who can't get open to save their lives, a running game they're not even using to help him out, and let's not even discuss the O-line. Granted he's going to make his share of rookie mistakes (holding the ball too long, misfires, asinine decisions under pressure that lead to foolish INT's) but still, what does he really have to work with? Opposing DC's are going to throw everything including the kitchen sink at him to screw him up and throw him off his game.

 

It's going to be a brutal learning experience for him, but he can only get better from it.

 

What I find kinda funny is how ppl are up in arms over Allen's play

 

- Absolutely NOTHING around him

- He is playing like a rookie.....he will be up and down....he played well against the vikings....he got slaughtered against the next team

 

People want to draft a quarterback then dont want to go through the qb pains that come with that.......and you COMPOUND that by the fact that his protection and pass catcher's are sub par....they drop balls...they dont get open......I rewatched the game and I saw some posts wondering what josh was doing with his balls on the sideline....HE WAS THROWING THE BALL AWAY because either nobody was open or he didnt see anyone open.

 

It will come.....deep breaths......we have 10 draft picks (which will probably be early in the rounds) and 90 million in cap space AND our QB in place......patience bills brothers and sisters....patience.