Zerovoltz Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 It is hard to measure progress without a comparable player or situation. I was thinking a comparable player and situation would be Mitch Trubisky with the Bears. He was drafted onto a team with a decent RB and no other weapons. The D was decent. They spent the whole first year that way then spent this offseason to add to the offense. Mitch didn’t have a good first year. 7 tds, 7 ints. Low yardage etc. he hadn’t been all that much better thus far until today. PS. Allen wasn’t very good against the Vikings as these things go. The defense gave him short fields, he fumbled three times, and the Bills fell on all three. He threw a few balls that should have been picked and his one deep pass was a well under thrown duck that the receiver got under and the defender overran. Compard to Mitch as the season goes. He’s a good measuring stick for the player and situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 He hasn't played well at all, but he jumped over a guy and tried to fire the defense up in a losing effort so he might as well get the key to the city in Buffalo. My benchmark is EJ Manuel, which should be very, very a low bar. Allen needs to improve completing passes in obvious passing situations and clutch third downs. If he keeps getting off the field this quickly I'll have no hope. As an aside, I think even EJ was better at this point, though no one can deny Allen's ceiling, it's a little annoying to watch a shutout and the pass he threw at the end of the first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I can’t say I agree with your analysis on his game against the Vikings. He was excellent that game. Sure he made some rookie mistakes but he made unbelievable plays. If he had competent WRs, he would have had another TD with at least 75 more yards. As a rookie going on on the road to a tough environment, I really don’t know how he could have played better than that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 17 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: It is hard to measure progress without a comparable player or situation. I was thinking a comparable player and situation would be Mitch Trubisky with the Bears. He was drafted onto a team with a decent RB and no other weapons. The D was decent. They spent the whole first year that way then spent this offseason to add to the offense. Mitch didn’t have a good first year. 7 tds, 7 ints. Low yardage etc. he hadn’t been all that much better thus far until today. PS. Allen wasn’t very good against the Vikings as these things go. The defense gave him short fields, he fumbled three times, and the Bills fell on all three. He threw a few balls that should have been picked and his one deep pass was a well under thrown duck that the receiver got under and the defender overran. Compard to Mitch as the season goes. He’s a good measuring stick for the player and situation Terrible analysis. He was pretty darned good last week. This week of course was another story as he was simply horrific. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 23 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: It is hard to measure progress without a comparable player or situation. I was thinking a comparable player and situation would be Mitch Trubisky with the Bears. He was drafted onto a team with a decent RB and no other weapons. The D was decent. They spent the whole first year that way then spent this offseason to add to the offense. Mitch didn’t have a good first year. 7 tds, 7 ints. Low yardage etc. he hadn’t been all that much better thus far until today. PS. Allen wasn’t very good against the Vikings as these things go. The defense gave him short fields, he fumbled three times, and the Bills fell on all three. He threw a few balls that should have been picked and his one deep pass was a well under thrown duck that the receiver got under and the defender overran. Compard to Mitch as the season goes. He’s a good measuring stick for the player and situation He needs to play as well as Wentz did his rookie season. That is what I need to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Just now, billspro said: He needs to play as well as Wentz did his rookie season. That is what I need to see. Wentz played with much better personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenboy81 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 If you didnt think Allen balled last week, idk what to tell ya.. And its impossible to judge Allen already especially with this oline and cfl receivers he has to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaB Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 minute ago, goldenboy81 said: If you didnt think Allen balled last week, idk what to tell ya.. And its impossible to judge Allen already especially with this oline and cfl receivers he has to work with. I’m sure you could find 5 CFL wrs that could improve this group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Honestly, I think even Geno Smith had better stats as a raw rookie than what Allen does now. We shall see. I’m praying that Allen picks it up and gets his passing up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) It's so hard to call it with this OC, OL, WR's plus the bad coaching. Bad OL coaching, Bad WR coaching. Bad play calls and who know what kind of QB coaching he's getting. All the f'kin process in the world can't fix that. McD is concentrating on D and the O is in the hands of DaBoll who is proving to fail for the 4th time. Look at Flacco. Everyone thought he was washed up. They were ready to anoint Lamar. But Baltimore went out and revamped their WR and TE's. Now he looks like an All-Pro. You've got to give your QB weapons before you decide anything. Edited October 1, 2018 by BillsRdue 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, goldenboy81 said: If you didnt think Allen balled last week, idk what to tell ya.. And its impossible to judge Allen already especially with this oline and cfl receivers he has to work with. He had a good game, no doubt, but it was a Captain Checkdown offense where 70% of his passing numbers came from YAC. This is going to be a tough one for Beane to solve in 2019. You've only got so many dollars and draft picks, and they can't all go to the offense. #trusttheprocess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 20 minutes ago, fridge said: He hasn't played well at all, but he jumped over a guy and tried to fire the defense up in a losing effort so he might as well get the key to the city in Buffalo. My benchmark is EJ Manuel, which should be very, very a low bar. Allen needs to improve completing passes in obvious passing situations and clutch third downs. If he keeps getting off the field this quickly I'll have no hope. As an aside, I think even EJ was better at this point, though no one can deny Allen's ceiling, it's a little annoying to watch a shutout and the pass he threw at the end of the first half. This is absolutely true. He has exhibited genuine leadership skills, firing up the troops on the sidelines, and he has clearly shown that he is fearless on the field and will risk bodily injury to make a play. On top of that, he did make several big, exciting plays against the Vikings...with his legs. Because of all that, most folks here decided he is a budding superstar. In fact, I think we have a thread with that more or less as the title. It's all a smokescreen for his actual play as a quarterback throwing the football, which has been pretty bad. Today in Green Bay it wasn't pretty bad, it was dreadful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp on da' net Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 High End- Joe Flacco/ Cam Newton Low End- Ryan Tannehill Worst Case- brock Osweiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Fadingpain said: This is absolutely true. He has exhibited genuine leadership skills, firing up the troops on the sidelines, and he has clearly shown that he is fearless on the field and will risk bodily injury to make a play. On top of that, he did make several big, exciting plays against the Vikings...with his legs. Because of all that, most folks here decided he is a budding superstar. In fact, I think we have a thread with that more or less as the title. It's all a smokescreen for his actual play as a quarterback throwing the football, which has been pretty bad. Today in Green Bay it wasn't pretty bad, it was dreadful. It takes two players to make the players you are talking about...... TWO drops by KB in the viking game that absolutely should have been caught.......one deep ball that absolutely should have been caught by Foster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Geez fans are brutal last week he was the second coming and now he’s Mitch Tribisky...Dak Prescott set the world on fire as a rookie and now even after what he did today a bunch of people in Dallas still want a new QB...the difference? A banged up oline and taking away his top two receiving threats will do that...Give Allen a quality running game and couple weapons and he will be just fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, fridge said: He hasn't played well at all, but he jumped over a guy and tried to fire the defense up in a losing effort so he might as well get the key to the city in Buffalo. My benchmark is EJ Manuel, which should be very, very a low bar. Allen needs to improve completing passes in obvious passing situations and clutch third downs. If he keeps getting off the field this quickly I'll have no hope. As an aside, I think even EJ was better at this point, though no one can deny Allen's ceiling, it's a little annoying to watch a shutout and the pass he threw at the end of the first half. Allen looked better against Minnesota than EJ Manuel has ever looked in a game in his NFL career. Just relax. 1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said: He had a good game, no doubt, but it was a Captain Checkdown offense where 70% of his passing numbers came from YAC. This is going to be a tough one for Beane to solve in 2019. You've only got so many dollars and draft picks, and they can't all go to the offense. #trusttheprocess They have A LOT of dollars and oh yes they can, and they will. Edited October 1, 2018 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 1 minute ago, metzelaars_lives said: Allen looked better against Minnesota than EJ Manuel has ever looked in a game in his NFL career. Just relax. What about the comeback game against Carolina? You know, the one where everyone here said we were witnessing the start of the EJ Manuel era, our new franchise QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Just now, Fadingpain said: What about the comeback game against Carolina? You know, the one where everyone here said we were witnessing the start of the EJ Manuel era, our new franchise QB. You mean the game they won because Luke Kuechly got flagged for a very suspect PI that kept the winning drive alive? Yes, Allen looked much better against Minnesota than Manuel did that game. Allen literally threw maybe two bad passes all game. Not to mention, Manuel had, like, real guys to work with and that was his best game as a pro. The following week against the Jets, he was every bit as bad as Allen was today, if not worse. If Allen doesn't exhibit the level of play he showed against Minnesota again this season, then we have a problem. I am confident he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Process Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Josh looked like Big Ben on many plays.....O line and weapons seems the be the consensus of at least a half dozen threads. Single opinions here can be eratic.....but the overall consensus is accurate. Terry.....hire everyone on this board....then hire one more objective analyst to extract the consensus gems. Winner winner chicken dinner..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26TrapDraw Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) Can't remember who it was that said it but .... This Board after a loss ?? Edited October 1, 2018 by BeefCurtns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 6 hours ago, fridge said: He hasn't played well at all, but he jumped over a guy and tried to fire the defense up in a losing effort so he might as well get the key to the city in Buffalo. My benchmark is EJ Manuel, which should be very, very a low bar. Allen needs to improve completing passes in obvious passing situations and clutch third downs. If he keeps getting off the field this quickly I'll have no hope. As an aside, I think even EJ was better at this point, though no one can deny Allen's ceiling, it's a little annoying to watch a shutout and the pass he threw at the end of the first half. EJ did look better at this point of his career but he had better talent around him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Through their first 3 NFL starts, Josh Allen has almost the same stat line as Jared Goff had. Couple different way to look at it. For starters, with the way the Rams revamped their WR ranks last year and the Baltimore Ravens restocked this year it shows that you can surround a young QB with playmakers in 1 off season. I'm hoping this is the plan going forward for Beane. Second, Josh Allen was looked at as (aside from Jackson) the QB in the draft that needed rhe most work. So what do we do? We hand a raw rookie QB to a defensive minded HC, an OC that has had zero success in the NFL and a QB coach that has spent the majority of his career coaching WRs. Then we compound that by having zero experienced QBs on the roster. Rosen has credited Bradford in helping get him ready. Darnold has been vocal about McCown helping him. Allen has Nate Peterman as a sounding board. Right now, Allen is set up to fail despite his raw physical skills. If you draft a QB that needs work you need to surround him with people qualified to get the most out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 5 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said: Geez fans are brutal last week he was the second coming and now he’s Mitch Tribisky...Dak Prescott set the world on fire as a rookie and now even after what he did today a bunch of people in Dallas still want a new QB...the difference? A banged up oline and taking away his top two receiving threats will do that...Give Allen a quality running game and couple weapons and he will be just fine Trubisky threw 6 td’s today. In one game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 I want to see Allen be able to recognize blitzes and either check down to the hot receiver or change out of a play where he's gonna get hammered. I want to see him step up into the pocket and not try to scramble outside when he can do so consistently. I want to see him get better at looking off the Safety. I want to see him have a better awareness of down and situations in instances like the 2 minute drill yesterday. This is only his 3rd start and he is still learning. Hopefully Daboll schemes better, the OL can hold up for him, and we see him continue to grow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 6 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Trubisky threw 6 td’s today. In one game And Dak Prescott was rookie of the year and a guy who forced a guy who threw for over 34,000 yards into retirement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said: And Dak Prescott was rookie of the year and a guy who forced a guy who threw for over 34,000 yards into retirement I think it was Romo’s back and other injury concerns more than Dak Prescott, but your point is well taken none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Trubisky threw 6 td’s today. In one game Dat Bucaneers pass defense is baaaaaaaad tho 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) I think Tannehill is the closest benchmark. With better wr's who can actually get separation and better OL his ceiling rises. I love his fire and leadership qualities that we never once had from TT or EJ. And yes this kid has flaws which will require time to clean up. Because of Peterman's meltdown, Josh won't have the luxury of learning behind a vet like Steve Young or Aaron Rodgers did. He has to be protected so he doesn't become David Carr. I'll give him 3 years just like our last 2 qbs. Beane better have the offseason of a lifetime. Edited October 1, 2018 by LABILLBACKER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 I am bumping this again because it's right after Mahomes Monday night magic and alot of you are over reacting or mis remembering the situation in 2017. First a refresher......your owner made the odd call of hiring a new coach, and leaving Whaley in place for the draft. The new coach, a defensive minded coach, wasn't about to draft a QB on his own, less than expert opinion....and he wasn't going to draft one on the recomendation of Whaley, who was leaving (have seen some rumors Whaley liked Mahomes) .....So this doesn't come down on McDermott...he wasn't in a position to make this call with any confidence, and since his job would be and IS, riding on the future of the QB position, he couldn't make this call at the time. Whaley didn't have control of the picks....he was providing scouting info to McD....ironically, IF Whaley was right about both MAHOMES and TRE WHITE...props to Whaley. .....the choice to avoid QB in 2017 was due to the owners method of reshaping his front office and staff....there is where the blame goes. I'm not a Bills fan, but your current staff isn't the reason you didn't take a QB...that was Pegula. Now, that said (again) .....your staff was all set, all the moves and trades etc were made and you ended up with Allen (I am well quoted here saying Mayfield, was the man, then I liked Rudolph second. then Darnold, Rosen, and NOT either of Allen or Jackson so I won't go over that again) ...you have Allen. You've all read the scouting reports...You know what you have...so...while you will always look back at 2017 at Mahomes, Watson etc....the guy you need to be looking at is TRUBISKY. I'm not telling you Trubs has arrived as a QB....but I am telling you that GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES and that you drafted Allen, your realistic assements of Allens developement need to be based on the Bears and Trubisky. The bears had a decent D and a crappy O all last year. They spent heavily this past offseason to upgrade the weapons for Trubs...you will be doing the same this upcoming offseason. Trubuisky was not good last year...he didn't look good most of the time....there were instances here and there that some could point to that suggested he might be able to improve, but no one really thoguht much of him after a season. He hasn't been much to look at this year either, until this past game where he really lit it up with the 5 TD in the first half. It's been a boon of optimism for the folks in Chicago who were really dreading that they had missed on their QB. Alot of football to play, but Do yourselves a favor....forget 2017....that happend, it was pegulas fault. Let your coach and GM have a minute to get out of cap hell and see if you got something in Allen or not....it's going to suck ALL YEAR most likely....compare to the 2017 Bears and Trubs.....see if you can identify similarities or even points where Allen may be ahead of that schedule if there are any.....you will be misserable trying to look at what KC etc are doing...your TEAM isn't there right now.....The path is the bears....that is who you are trying to catch and pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 I don't know, it's way too early, showed some good things, showed some bad things, I just can't make a long term evaluation on a guy that is still training on the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) Benchmark for Allen ?.... It should be about the benchmark for McDermott, Beane, Frazier and Daboll and it should look something like this: Edited October 2, 2018 by I am the egg man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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