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John from Riverside

For those of us who were not alive to see it, how did the class of '83 look out of the gate?

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15 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

That’s an insult to the HoFers. 

 

A career backup lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. 

 

Ironically, Hostetler was in the right place at the right time because Simms was injured during the Bills/Giants game a month earlier...

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18 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

All of the first rounders except for Baltimore are all starting before mid season is even here...........

 

I realize that this will not be fully know for a few years......but does this look like the greatest QB draft ever?

No . it is not close to the 1983 draft class. The odds of multiple hall of famers being in the 2018 class is very small. 

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Sometimes it takes more than a season or two to determine how good a QB is going to be.  Look at an RG3 who had a breakout rookie year but was never the same after teams caught onto him and after his injury.

 

Also, I was around for this but Ken O’Brien has a breakout 2nd year, made it to the Pro Bowl and helped the Jets to the playoffs.  But after that he was largely an average QB.  

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19 hours ago, Like A Mofo said:

I think the evaluation process was so different then. Blackledge especially, I have been a PSU fan since 1981 and I don't remember him being all that good, he was a good QB in college on a stacked team. I think scouts etc back then valued wins and team success in college more then they do now.

 

I'd be really shocked to hear that was the case, however I think these days with all the computer analysis and other data available today, it's much easier to separate a players success out from a teams success.  Back then it was more blurry so they got sucked into thinking the player had more to do with it than he really did.

 

Kelly was in the USFL for was it 2 or 3 seasons, and Marino didn't start the first few games so trying to make anykind of meaningful argument after 3 weeks is a complete waste of time.

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19 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Strongly disagree.  3 games is a strong sample size.  This is the best qb class ever and I don’t think it’s close. 

 

But some of these guys didn’t play right out of the gate. Be fair - give them two more quarters! 

 

I get the original question....how did the ‘83 class look early on. To be honest, it’s hard for me to say. Kelly wasn’t with us yet, and you didn’t have the same level of coverage. No Sunday Ticket, etc. Just a paragraph on each team in the USA Today once a week. Odd how times have changed SO MUCH! 

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20 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

Sometimes it takes more than a season or two to determine how good a QB is going to be.  Look at an RG3 who had a breakout rookie year but was never the same after teams caught onto him and after his injury.

 

Also, I was around for this but Ken O’Brien has a breakout 2nd year, made it to the Pro Bowl and helped the Jets to the playoffs.  But after that he was largely an average QB.  

 

It was what, 5 years ago, that kaepernick wilson and rg3 were the next generation elite? 

 

Everyones here because ghey have talent. They will often flash that talent. Sustainably outpacing defensive adjustments with elite physical and mental skills is rare. We have no idea if all or none will do that at this point. Hopefully ours does.

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

But some of these guys didn’t play right out of the gate. Be fair - give them two more quarters! 

 

I get the original question....how did the ‘83 class look early on. To be honest, it’s hard for me to say. Kelly wasn’t with us yet, and you didn’t have the same level of coverage. No Sunday Ticket, etc. Just a paragraph on each team in the USA Today once a week. Odd how times have changed SO MUCH! 

Are we talking two quarters each, or combined? How hot should my take be?!?

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9 hours ago, SDS said:

 

Is this meant to be funny?

Why would you think that. I really don’t remember much of that class. Kelly turned us down. Didn’t want to come to Buffalo.  Nothing sticks out.   I only paid attention to Buffalo.  When Kelly did come everyone was excited.  I didn’t pay attention to the other QBs. Got excited when we played the fish.  Never compared QBs on how each looked or did.  A lot more of that is done in today’s world.  

 

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20 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

All of the first rounders except for Baltimore are all starting before mid season is even here...........

 

I realize that this will not be fully know for a few years......but does this look like the greatest QB draft ever?

 

You have to consider the very different era. In the 1970s/80s  the college game was more run with little developed passing game while the NFL was far more complex passing game.  Rookies back then had to fight a steep learning cirve for the pro passing game.

 

In today's game it has virtually flipped - colleges are passing all the time and many of their passing schemes are being copied by NFL offenses. Rookie QBs are playing a similar game that they came from in college. I'd expect more and more NFL ready QB's entering the NFL with impacts even as rookies.

 

Kelly, Marino, Elway were so special in that rookies just didnt play back then as QBs

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Can look back to 04 as well:

 

Eli

Rivers

Ben

Losman

 

Who is the Loserman from this years squad?

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21 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

All of the first rounders except for Baltimore are all starting before mid season is even here...........

 

But that time line is incredibly standard. When discussing if allen would sit the whole year - top ten picks the last 15 years have universally started outside a small number of exceptions. The smart money was on all starting by October 1

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We should sticky this thread. This season will be the most exciting season in a long time for the qb reason alone. Im happy asf we actually have a horse in the race this time. I honestly didnt want JA in the draft. I was so pissed wen we took him but he won me over in preseason, the kids a gamer, i hope he reaches his celing. I bet good money Baker has the best season of the 4. I also bet JA shows the most improvement year 1 to year 2

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Some people here seem to remember Elway as being strong right out of the box. He wasn't.

 

In his first season Elway started 10 games (4-6). He completed 123/259 (47.5%) for 1663 yards (166.3 per), 7 touchdowns and 14 interceptions. Oh, and the fans dogged him big time.

 

Yes it might be a few years til we can see how this year's class compares.

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2 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

Can look back to 04 as well:

 

Eli

Rivers

Ben

Losman

 

Who is the Loserman from this years squad?

As with the class of 2004,  based on the odds that the QBs taken in the top 11 have a much better chance of  success over the guy picked later in the 1st round, I'd put my $ on Lamar Jackson being the failure of the group.  Now there are exceptions like Marino & Rodgers, but after you get past the 1st half of round 1, many of the later 1st round QB picks are reaches by teams that jump the gun in the attempt to get their QB of the future.  A team that takes the 1st round crumbs that are left of a QB class after the cream of the crop has been taken doesn't usually fare so well.  Also in a bad QB draft just taking a QB in the 1st round out of desperation rarely works: see Manuel, E.J.  

 

One thing I have to say about the 4 top 10 QBs this year.  One of the things pundits in favor of keeping a rookie on the bench say is they're afraid a rookie QB confidence can be ruined with a few bad outings.  Look at these 4 guys, while I admit I have no idea what Sam Darnold's & Lamar Jackson's personality are like, I'm pretty sure that there's no way that anyone could do anything to shake the confidence level of Allen, Mayfield, or Rosen.  At this point those 3 guys are fearless & could be intercepted 10 times in their next game and still come out throwing on their next series.   While Rosen plays more with quiet confidence, Allen & Mayfield are always fired up & ready to go.  

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3 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

Can look back to 04 as well:

 

Eli

Rivers

Ben

Losman

 

Who is the Loserman from this years squad?

 

...PERFECT example of "hindsight is a beautiful thing"..........want some interesting reads?.....go back and check out the 2004 pre-draft prognostications from the "experts"....Losman was tabbed "THE heir apparent gunslinger to Brett Favre going to the Pack at #23".......so Tom "Terrific" Donhole snookered the Pack after blowing the Big Ben pick and gave up plenty to select Losman at #22......rushed him into service LONG before ready to CYA his arse for Ben debacle.......hell, even Jaws drowned his penny loafers drooling over "Losman's intelligence with the football"...as the late great Paul Harvey would say, "YOU know the rest of the story".......

Edited by OldTimeAFLGuy

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On 9/28/2018 at 1:43 PM, Soda Popinski said:

Elway was definitely very good right out of the gate.

He really wasn't.   I watched his first start on the road in Pittsburgh.  He was horrible and had no idea what he was doing.  Ended up getting yanked for Steve Deberg, who wound up winning the game for Denver.  He finished his first season with sub 50% completion percentage and more than twice as many picks as TDs.  There were certainly flashes of his potential but he was not good. 

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you're talking about one game.    HIs first one, i'm talking about his rookie season.  

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Quote

For those of us who were not alive to see it, how did the class of '83 look out of the gate?

Why are you asking people who were not alive in 1983 their opinion on that years rookie QB crop?

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1 hour ago, Soda Popinski said:

you're talking about one game.    HIs first one, i'm talking about his rookie season.  

Uh...no.

 

Games:  11

Record:   4-7

Completions:  123

Attempts: 259

Completion Percentage:  47.9%

Yards:  1663

YPA:  6.42

TDs:  7

Interceptions:  14

Rating: 54.9

Sacks: 28

 

Terrible completions percentage, half as many TDs as interceptions, less than one TD per start, etc.  The final game of the season, they were getting beat in KC 41-3 because Elway threw 4 interceptions.  He was not good his rookie season.

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2 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:

I just remember them making the playoffs.   but that was pro with the DeBerg

They made the playoffs because of their defense.  For example, they won the first game in Pittsburgh 14-10 because the defense forced SEVEN turnovers.  Imagine how insane this board would be if our defense forced 7 turnovers but Allen was benched for poor play but we still managed a win.


Elway really struggled his rookie season but he showed flashes of how good he was going to be (the 3 TDs he threw in the 4th quarter against Baltimore being the most obvious example).  He was a totally different QB his second season, which is how most people remember his early career. 

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horrible, but they had Kelly developing in a semi-pro league while they were able to grab Bruce and Thurman

 

and it took awhile to get going when it happened

 

there isn't anything within a million miles of those 3 men on this squad

 

 

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