Eric Wood says the culture is just fine in Buffalo and guys are really bought in

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

The Bills signed the veteran CB who had a very good career coming off an injury. They thought he could be useful for this season while being very aware that he was in the twilight of his career. It's apparent to me that while they didn't know he was going to quit in the middle of the game the staff was well aware that he was a fading player. In my opinion if he didn't quit he would have been benched.

 

I could be mistaken, but I think jw knows very well what Vontae's career was.

The point is right now, we are hella short at the CB position. 

 

It's not a bad move to take a shot at him on a 90 man roster, but jw point appears to me: maybe the time to look around and invest in additional CB help was last spring, when the Bills learned Vontae was still trying to overcome his injury.   If not then, at least when he couldn't play in preseason, put out the APB and have a heart to heart about the CB situation and whether Davis should be IR'd or cut and replaced.  

 

We've played a career safety at CB already 'cuz we're so short.  That's not good roster management - 53 or active.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

15 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

I am not usually one to start new threads, but I wanted to make sure people read this, with how many are down on the Bills right now. This was reassuring for me to read. I hope it is for you too...

 

 

https://theathletic.com/531712/2018/09/18/wood-its-so-hard-for-me-to-fathom-that-anyone-would-quit-on-their-teammates-like-vontae-davis-did/

 

(Sorry, it’s a link to the Athletic - sub. required -  but I copied & pasted the relevant part of the article) 

 

 

 

they still are, but the cupboard is bare.

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

15 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Love Eric Wood, but he's not exactly a neutral arbiter when it comes to the Bills.

 

Yeah but considering the folks flipping out about Preston Brown's comments--also not neutral and probably very jaded--it's worthwhile seeing this perspective from another player who was a Bill for years but no longer is.

[CaptnCoke11]

Hear a lot about culture and buying in.. means nothing with piss poor talent.  

[Fadingpain]

8 hours ago, K-9 said:

Here's a thought, too: in the absence of any answers to those questions and instead of seeking to get those answers directly from the principles involved, why do some media folks insist on just going with their conjecture as though it means anything. 

 

I know one fact: Vontae Davis acted in the most unprofessional manner that pro football team member can act. He gets no benefit of the doubt. None. 

* principals

 

 

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

$3.5M guaranteed salary is "pennies" now?  On a team where folks are asserting we couldn't sign a couple FA OL 'cuz "no cap"?

The $3.5 M salary is not an extravagant amount for a starting CB. They thought they could get one more year on this weathered player.

 

The Bills were determined to absorb a bulk cap hit this year so that next near the team would have a good cap situation. One can disagree with their strategy but it was what they decided to do. It's obvious with their cap strategy that they weren't investing heavily in the market this year as demonstrated by the cheap OL pickups that they made this year. The personnel decisions were made in the context of  a longer term rebuild. One can disagree with that strategy but there is a logic to it. Maybe not you but I'm on board with their line of thinking. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The $3.5 M salary is not an extravagant amount for a starting CB. They thought they could get one more year on this weathered player.

 

You were saying that Corey Coleman cost the team 'pennies':

12 hours ago, JohnC said:

As far as the Coleman pick-up they gave up pennies to get a look at a speedster who was a former first round pick. This was a low cost and insignificant transaction. It isn't something to be bothered by. 

 

I was responding to that, and quite clearly, the quote mentioned him by name.  $3.5M fully guaranteed is the amount of Corey Coleman's salary the Bills took on when they traded to the Browns for him, only to cut him less than a month later.

 

Is that "pennies" now?  In my opinion, when we're being told the Bills can't afford to pay a couple good FA interior OLmen and a contributing FA WR, I think it's not.

 

Either you didn't do homework before pronouncing that Coleman cost the Bills "pennies", or your definition of "pennies" is quite odd under the cap

 

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could be mistaken, but I think jw knows very well what Vontae's career was.

The point is right now, we are hella short at the CB position. 

 

It's not a bad move to take a shot at him on a 90 man roster, but jw point appears to me: maybe the time to look around and invest in additional CB help was last spring, when the Bills learned Vontae was still trying to overcome his injury.   If not then, at least when he couldn't play in preseason, put out the APB and have a heart to heart about the CB situation and whether Davis should be IR'd or cut and replaced.  

 

We've played a career safety at CB already 'cuz we're so short.  That's not good roster management - 53 or active.

You and JW may be prescient but the Bills weren't. They thought that they could get by with him for this season. It didn't work out. Without question Davis was not fully recovered. They felt that he would be adequately ready by the time the season started. He wasn't physically and mentally. It didn't work out for the player or the organization. It happens in a profession based on brutality. If you want to after the fact point your finger to a reasonable and calculated judgment that's okay. When you are in a business that requires a lot of personnel judgments not all of them are going to work out. 

 

I'm wouldn't be critical of Vontae if he retired after the game. But I am critical of him for walking out at halftime. 

[CLTbills]

20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's true, but the fact is, the Bills played better in the 2nd half after Vontae quit.

He didn't play in Baltimore...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, JohnC said:

You and JW may be prescient but the Bills weren't. They thought that they could get by with him for this season.

 

Come On, John.  When your hoped-for starting corner acknowledges that he's still recovering in the spring and is obviously finding it painful to move during TC and not looking good, prescience is NOT required.  Cornerback is one of the most demanding positions in a demanding sport.  if the guy goes into the season gimping, Plan B is needed.

 

 

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You were saying that Corey Coleman cost the team 'pennies':

 

I was responding to that, and quite clearly, mentioning Coleman by name.  $3.5M fully guaranteed is the amount of Corey Coleman's salary the Bills took on when they traded to the Browns for him, only to cut him less than a month later.

 

Is that "pennies" now?  In my opinion, when we're being told the Bills can't afford to pay a couple good FA interior OLmen and a contributing FA WR, I think it's not.

 

Either you didn't do homework before pronouncing that Coleman cost the Bills "pennies", or your definition of "pennies" is quite odd under the cap

 

I thought you were talking about Vontae. 

 

As far as Coleman they took a risk on him. It didn't work out. They had a need for a speed receiver and wanted to try out the former first round pick. They quickly realized that he is a bust. They moved on. I have no problem with the attempt to upgrade at an area of need.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I thought you were talking about Vontae. 

 

As far as Coleman they took a risk on him. It didn't work out. They had a need for a speed receiver and wanted to try out the former first round pick. They quickly realized that he is a bust. They moved on. I have no problem with the attempt to upgrade at an area of need.   

 

If you thought I was talking about Vontae, when I clearly quoted the portion of your post that mentioned Coleman by name and referred to cutting him after a month, you at best weren't bothering to read my post with reasonable care.

 

3.5M is 2% of the cap.  It slots Coleman in as the 11th highest cap figure on the active Bills.

 

Please answer the questions:

-is 2% of the cap and the 11th cap figure "pennies" to an NFL team in your opinion?  Yes or No?  Straight up please.

-is it reasonable or responsible pro player personnel evaluation to try to "upgrade" at a position of need, by spending 2% of your cap and #11 of your roster, on a player whose effort and/or attitude are so bad, you cut him after a month?  Does that suggest due diligence to you?

 

[Bring it]

20 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

Yea the culture is fine, of course it is.That doesn't mean a dam thing if you have 0 talent on this team.

 

but hey, culture is super important. 

 

This is such BS. If the Bills are 2-0 right now, i guaran-damn-tee you vontae does not quit. 

 

He saw this team was going to be bad and said, eff it the money ain't worth being on the worst team in football. 

That’s what I thought at first too! But he was on some pretty pathetic Colts teams the last couple of years! I don’t know if we ever know the real reason 

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Come On, John.  When your hoped-for starting corner acknowledges that he's still recovering in the spring and is obviously finding it painful to move during TC and not looking good, prescience is NOT required.  Cornerback is one of the most demanding positions in a demanding sport.  if the guy goes into the season gimping, Plan B is needed.

 

 

The player and the team thought he was going to be ready by the time the season started. He wasn't it. It didn't work out. It's not a catastrophe. It's not an unusual occurrence especially for an aging player who doesn't have the resilience that a younger player has. The Bills thought that they could get by this year with him. It didn't work out. 

 

You are giving this issue more weight than I am. He was not a cornerstone player. He was a player they were hoping to get by on for this year. From what was stated by others who were reporting on the game the replacement player did fine, if not better than the struggling veteran.  

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If you thought I was talking about Vontae, when I clearly quoted the portion of your post that mentioned Coleman by name and referred to cutting him after a month, you at best weren't bothering to read my post with reasonable care.

 

3.5M is 2% of the cap.  It slots Coleman in as the 11th highest cap figure on the active Bills.

 

Please answer the questions:

-is 2% of the cap and the 11th cap figure "pennies" to an NFL team in your opinion?  Yes or No?  Straight up please.

-is it reasonable or responsible pro player personnel evaluation to try to "upgrade" at a position of need, by spending 2% of your cap and #11 of your roster, on a player whose effort and/or attitude are so bad, you cut him after a month?  Does that suggest due diligence to you?

 

In the grand scheme of things the cap hit that the Bills took on Coleman is trivial and insignificant. Whatever they want to do from a personnel standpoint with or without trading for Coleman can still be done. 

 

The Bills took a gamble on a former first round speed receiver and it didn't work out. The repercussions for this team is minuscule. You are inflating the importance of a transaction that didn't work out.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The player and the team thought he was going to be ready by the time the season started. He wasn't it. It didn't work out. It's not a catastrophe. It's not an unusual occurrence especially for an aging player who doesn't have the resilience that a younger player has. The Bills thought that they could get by this year with him. It didn't work out. 

 

You are giving this issue more weight than I am. He was not a cornerstone player. He was a player they were hoping to get by on for this year. From what was stated by others who were reporting on the game the replacement player did fine, if not better than the struggling veteran.  

In the grand scheme of things the cap hit that the Bills took on Coleman is trivial and insignificant. Whatever they want to do from a personnel standpoint with or without trading for Coleman can still be done. 

 

The Bills took a gamble on a former first round speed receiver and it didn't work out. The repercussions for this team is minuscule. You are inflating the importance of a transaction that didn't work out.  

 

Oh, Well. That Answers That then.

 

I'm outta here.

[BuffaLoko]

On 9/18/2018 at 10:49 AM, 26CornerBlitz said:

Love Eric Wood, but he's not exactly a neutral arbiter when it comes to the Bills.

So who is? .... you?

Edited September 19, 2018 by BuffaLoko

[sleeby]

So much drama.  Toughen up people. I mean, carping is to be expected but the drama and the rumor starting and conspiracy theories is a bit much.  It's kinda pathetic.

 

Logic would imply that if wood's friends were miserable he would keep quiet for their sake.  Since he spoke publicly that tells me he is sharing truth and all is as well as can be for a last place rebuild year.  He was a captain and a leader.  

 

 

[Doc]

15 hours ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Dude is still on the payroll. What else will he say? Really a comment that can be taken with a grain of salt.

 

He's getting his money no matter what.

 

5 hours ago, BuffaLoko said:

So who is? .... you?

 

The talking heads and players the Bills allowed to leave.

[Bockeye]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Come On, John.  When your hoped-for starting corner acknowledges that he's still recovering in the spring and is obviously finding it painful to move during TC and not looking good, prescience is NOT required.  Cornerback is one of the most demanding positions in a demanding sport.  if the guy goes into the season gimping, Plan B is needed.

 

 

100% agree.  We could be talking about Trent Murphy here too.  I'm starting to question the Process instead of trusting it. 

[Max Fischer]

On 9/18/2018 at 12:05 PM, CountDorkula said:

If it were the first time it happened then sure.

1) Boldin

2) Incognito

3) Davis

 

seems odd that 3 guys have up and quit on this team. It has not happened anywhere else yet. 

 

On 9/18/2018 at 12:10 PM, CountDorkula said:

yet...

 

Bouldin was barely in the team, same with Davis and Richie is a nut but go ahead and troll. 

[Tcali]

I dont see much hope for future success with these Bills IF we keep spending big money on over the hill stiffs like Star,not spending money on O line replacements..

and drafting QBs with poor passing skills without having a Ryan Fitzy on the roster.

This team is an eternal train wreck.

Maybe I will feel better if I see Josh Allen not throw ducks to WRs when a) they are wide open... b)they have a good chance of scoring a TD.

 When I see him NOT throw checkdown specials while being oblivious to the position of the DBs/LBs-who are waiting to clobber the poor receiver.

And when I see him not stand like a wooden indian--creating a sack situation when the protection is actually quite good.

-It must be demoralizing for the team--or any team--to be burdened with shaky QB play all the time. That has to affet locker room morale

[DuckyBoys]

If the coaches lost the team you would have seen them collapse in the 2nd half  Instead they came out and clawed back into with the defense Bills outscored the Bolts 17-3 in the 2nd half  The sky isnt falling  people

[C.Biscuit97]

Culture is such a BS word.  Culture is great when a team wins.  I’m sure there a bunch of good, hard working guys on this team.  They just have little talent.

[BillsPride12]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Culture is such a BS word.  Culture is great when a team wins.  I’m sure there a bunch of good, hard working guys on this team.  They just have little talent.

A-Freaking-Men! I was just about to post that Culture isn't the problem here....it's a severe lack of talent!!!

 

Culture is important to a degree...in the sense you would hate to see a team built like the Pittsburgh Steelers full of talent but also full of a bunch of divas which has created a huge obstacle for them getting back to the Super Bowl with this bunch....but at the same time we also shouldn't be trying to field a team with the boy scouts of America either.  Some of this stuff that McDermott and Beane start talking about in regards to culture comes across so hokey and reminds me of something you would see from a high school coach.  These guys have to really start putting an emphasis on bringing some premium talent in here.  I'm not saying to bring in divas or thugs but lets get back to the days of building a good football team with good players first and foremost.  

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, BillsPride12 said:

A-Freaking-Men! I was just about to post that Culture isn't the problem here....it's a severe lack of talent!!!

 

Culture is important to a degree...in the sense you would hate to see a team built like the Pittsburgh Steelers full of talent but also full of a bunch of divas which has created a huge obstacle for them getting back to the Super Bowl with this bunch....but at the same time we also shouldn't be trying to field a team with the boy scouts of America either.  Some of this stuff that McDermott and Beane start talking about in regards to culture comes across so hokey and reminds me of something you would see from a high school coach.  These guys have to really start putting an emphasis on bringing some premium talent in here.  I'm not saying to bring in divas or thugs but lets get back to the days of building a good football team with good players first and foremost.  

I agree talent in any organization is important, but name me a successful organization that does not have a specific culture that guides their performance 

[BillsPride12]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I agree talent in any organization is important, but name me a successful organization that does not have a specific culture that guides their performance 

 

I don't think having a good culture is a bad thing but I'm just beyond sick of hearing about it.  Did we really need to hear from Eric Wood that the culture here is doing fine?  What we need is some elite level talent right now.  This whole culture talk is starting to feel like a caricature of itself IMO.  

[Mr. WEO]

On September 18, 2018 at 11:51 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's true, but the fact is, the Bills played better in the 2nd half after Vontae quit.

 

 

Nah, it's because McD received our DC of all of his duties at halftime.

 

Not sure why this isn't much more off a story.

[Punching Bag]

On 9/18/2018 at 12:03 PM, CountDorkula said:

Yea the culture is fine, of course it is.That doesn't mean a dam thing if you have 0 talent on this team.

 

but hey, culture is super important. 

 

This is such BS. If the Bills are 2-0 right now, i guaran-damn-tee you vontae does not quit. 

 

He saw this team was going to be bad and said, eff it the money ain't worth being on the worst team in football. 

 

So you are saying he is a dork.  I agree.   Dorks are slow witted and socially inept all of which he demonstrated.

On 9/18/2018 at 12:05 PM, CountDorkula said:

If it were the first time it happened then sure.

1) Boldin

2) Incognito

3) Davis

 

seems odd that 3 guys have up and quit on this team. It has not happened anywhere else yet. 

 

Lots of players have quit in offseason or are you so slow witted you cannot realize that?

[Doc]

34 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Nah, it's because McD received our DC of all of his duties at halftime.

 

Not sure why this isn't much more off a story.

 

Good question.  Glad there was a reason (for the defensive improvement).  Now Castillo needs to be demoted.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Doc

[Punching Bag]

On 9/18/2018 at 1:12 PM, CountDorkula said:

Maybe i should just go become a Pats fan, I mean that's probably what y'all will say next. 

 

No not "become".

[Bob in STL]

On 9/18/2018 at 10:55 AM, boco357 said:

Still on the payroll

He can say what he wants, it will not change his contract.  

The Bills won 9 games with marginal talent because they worked hard and bought in.  

 

No reason to think that mentality has changed. The talent level has dropped another notch or two, we can debate why or what they could have done different but we are who we are.   Now they need to get to work and win a few.  

[BillsFan4]

Well, it looks like E. Wood was right- any talk of McDermott losing the locker room was ridiculous. 

[BillsPride12]

Just now, BillsFan4 said:

Well, it looks like E. Wood was right- any talk of McDermott losing the locker room was ridiculous. 

I'm guilty of starting to lose a little faith in the process before today's game but I'm more than glad to eat crow and take my lumps today.  Last year was no fluke, McDermott is the truth! 

[BillsFan4]

1 minute ago, BillsPride12 said:

I'm guilty of starting to lose a little faith in the process before today's game but I'm more than glad to eat crow and take my lumps today.  Last year was no fluke, McDermott is the truth! 

 

Yeah I hear you man. It’s tough when everything is going so bad.

 

It definitely makes it easier to deal with the “lows” when you get to see what the “highs” look like... 

 

Allen, Edmunds, Milano, White -all young guys who played very good for us today.

I think this is what McDermott meant when he said it’s “fertile ground” for thr young guys to develop. 

 

But I expect there will be more games where Edmunds and Allen and Milano (etc) struggle (like in the previous weeks) and the loss looks ugly. 

 

My hope is that as the season goes on, we will see the young guys start to consistently play better. 

[downunderbill]

26 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Well, it looks like E. Wood was right- any talk of McDermott losing the locker room was ridiculous. 

 

The only talk about losing the locker room was concocted by the fans.  We make up a lot of stuff, and then believe the BS.

[Bob in STL]

No doubt that McD is a coach most players trust and will work for.  He seems fair and he treats people with respect.  When your turn is up he will play you.  “Next man up”, “You are 1/11th”,  those sayings are real to McD. 

 

Players that don’t get along with McD are likely the suspect ones.