The NFL Can't Seem to Figure Out Roughing the Passer Calls - No Changes This Season Regarding Body Weight on QBs

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Corrente Roughly Describes Roughing the Passer Call. It Was Rough | Football Zebras

 

Week 2: Vikings at Packers

Late in the fourth quarter Packers outside linebacker Clay Matthews was hit with a roughing the passer penalty to extend a drive for the second consecutive week. Unlike last week, there does not seem to be much in this. Matthews contacted Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins as he released the ball and did not drive him into the ground or put his weight into landing on him. It is a tough call for referee Tony Corrente to make in real time compounded by the point of emphasis on quarterback hits this year.

[Rocbillsfan1]

6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Corrente Roughly Describes Roughing the Passer Call. It Was Rough | Football Zebras

 

Week 2: Vikings at Packers

Late in the fourth quarter Packers outside linebacker Clay Matthews was hit with a roughing the passer penalty to extend a drive for the second consecutive week. Unlike last week, there does not seem to be much in this. Matthews contacted Vikings quarterback Kirk Cousins as he released the ball and did not drive him into the ground or put his weight into landing on him. It is a tough call for referee Tony Corrente to make in real time compounded by the point of emphasis on quarterback hits this year.

Might as well put a red shirt on him

[Cugalabanza]

Yeah, I agree.  It's a mess.

 

Also very confusing and inconsistent:  the occasional blowing of a whistle when a QB is ruled "in the grasp" or "forward momentum" stopped.  This usually is the call when it's an excuse to take away a forced fumble from the Bills defense.  Also, to some extent, intentional grounding is all over the place in terms of how it's interpreted.

[Blokestradamus]

If that Matthews 'penalty' is going to be sent out as teaching tape for what not to do, what incentive do teams have to play nice with the QB?

 

If that is a penalty, might as well cannonball the QB at the knees on the first snap and get the backup in.

[RoyBatty is alive]

I think from the refs angle he thought Matthews put all his weight on the QB, from the angle we see in this thread it is clear he didn't.  I understand why the rule, often these 310 pound DT put their weight on the QB on purpose, it doesn't assist in bringing the QB down.

 

Put with the asinine what is a catch anymore in the NFL get used to arbitrary calls like this.

[26CornerBlitz]

Ridiculous!

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[HamSandwhich]

This is getting nauseating.  I'm finding that I'm less interested in the NFL year over year.  It's just getting worse.  Used to sit and watch games all day long.  Flag football it is I guess.  

[row_33]

bad call

 

happens

 

 

[Best Player Available]

When asked. Von Miller says he now always goes for a strip sack now In an attempt to avoid the 

roughing the passer. But also admits he's been called a lot for RTP. 

[Boatdrinks]

Garbage calls imo. If guys weigh 300 + lbs and they fall on you, so be it. That’s what they weigh, so tell the OL to block better. There was already a rule against body slamming a player ( which didn’t happen in these instances ) so any change was unnecessary. We saw the maddening inconsistency on full display Sunday with forward progress / in the grasp calls involving Allen and Rivers. The NFL needs to stop this nonsense. Players get hurt, including QBs. It’s the nature of the game. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Boatdrinks

[KD in CA]

48 minutes ago, row_33 said:

bad call

 

happens

 

 

 

I can always defend a bad call.  I can't defend a phantom call.  How do you throw a flag on something you didn't see?   That's the problem -- the default reaction is to throw a flag.

[Utah John]

The past few years, the NFL couldn't figure out what a completed pass looked like.  Now it's how a QB gets sacked.  They're just making things so complicated. 

 

The completed pass problem came about because the refs blew a call, I think it was with a Cowboys receiver, and then kept telling the same (wrong) story, digging themselves a deeper and deeper hole.  The same thing will happen here.  Things will likely improve once the aged and brittle Brady retires.

[Jerome007]

I for one completely understand why they want to protect QBs. They often are the stars of the game, and people pay tickets and watch TV to see stars. But what Clay did on this one, damn, that should never be a penalty! WTH

[row_33]

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

 

I can always defend a bad call.  I can't defend a phantom call.  How do you throw a flag on something you didn't see?   That's the problem -- the default reaction is to throw a flag.

 

 

a really really bad call

 

 

[4_kidd_4]

2 hours ago, HamSandwhich said:

This is getting nauseating.  I'm finding that I'm less interested in the NFL year over year.  It's just getting worse.  Used to sit and watch games all day long.  Flag football it is I guess.  

 

Amen.  This will be my last year of season tix.

 

Everything you said, plus the fact that our franchise has zero entertainment value whatsoever, from the ownership down to the fans. It’s all so boring and played out.

[ctk232]

5 hours ago, Cugalabanza said:

Yeah, I agree.  It's a mess.

 

Also very confusing and inconsistent:  the occasional blowing of a whistle when a QB is ruled "in the grasp" or "forward momentum" stopped.  This usually is the call when it's an excuse to take away a forced fumble from the Bills defense.  Also, to some extent, intentional grounding is all over the place in terms of how it's interpreted.

Agreed - there's no consistency with the NFL and they'd rather throw a PR title solution at the problem rather than sit down and actually plan out a way to make it happen. The new rule is 100% for PR purposes of protecting players, yet little to nothing has been done to determine how the rule is and should be interpreted. They've effectively red shirted an entire position in the game.

 

To the Bills point, I'm wondering if the past two games had more to do with having Rookie Refs both weeks. Not like the vets call a good game anyway, but at least give us less excuses come Monday...

 

Intentional grounding seems to be this thing that exists everywhere, yet goes unnoticed every time...maybe because the refs are too busy looking at: where the QB got hit; how hard; how far; how long since he threw it; was it actually bad or did it just look bad; is his name Brady; what do I want for dinner tonight; etc. and not so much where the ball is actually being thrown...

[row_33]

11 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

 

 

To the Bills point, I'm wondering if the past two games had more to do with having Rookie Refs both weeks. Not like the vets call a good game anyway, but at least give us less excuses come Monday...

 

 

 

No, not at all.

 

[ProcessYaDigg]

Two hand touch, here we come

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[T master]

From anything any players have said it was a clean hit that Mathews did but once again the main guy in the booth that is now the head of officiating which has had his controversy in the past with calls is setting this up to be a total cluster F of a situation so expect a huge amount of calls that have grey area surrounding them through out this season & beyond !! 

 

It's the same thing that happened with the "is it a catch or isn't it a catch" Rule which if they would just have read the other rules that the GROUND CAN"T CAUSE A FUMBLE then it would have been clear when you hit the ground with the ball in your hand you were down but that common sense doesn't apply like it doesn't in so many other things in our world ...

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, T master said:

From anything any players have said it was a clean hit that Mathews did but once again the main guy in the booth that is now the head of officiating which has had his controversy in the past with calls is setting this up to be a total cluster F of a situation so expect a huge amount of calls that have grey area surrounding them through out this season & beyond !! 

 

It's the same thing that happened with the "is it a catch or isn't it a catch" Rule which if they would just have read the other rules that the GROUND CAN"T CAUSE A FUMBLE then it would have been clear when you hit the ground with the ball in your hand you were down but that common sense doesn't apply like it doesn't in so many other things in our world ...

 

so replay and trying to rewrite the rules every year hasn't solved all the problems?

 

[Gigs]

The tech is there to automate the refs and judges. Just do it, because this inability to enforce your own rules is making the game weak

[Watkins90]

On 9/18/2018 at 8:30 AM, 26CornerBlitz said:

Ridiculous!

 

I enjoy how the NFL can't even interpret its own rules right and to save face for Corrente is doubling down on is game-changing, terrible call. Matthews nor Kendricks scooped-and-pulled. It's called physics, something the NFL leaders need to learn about. When a player gets hit, especially when both QBs leave the ground on their own accord as they did in both these hits, physics takes over and you have the result that occurred, a perfectly legal hit where the QBs feet leave the ground. Again, both Rodgers and Cousins jumped into the air, they were already in the air when hit. They both did it to get more force behind there passes. When that happens, your feet are going to come out from under you when your hit in the midsection. 

[row_33]

32 minutes ago, Gigs said:

The tech is there to automate the refs and judges. Just do it, because this inability to enforce your own rules is making the game weak

 

the hidden rule of officiating is to be sometimes lax on the rules to encourage creativity and excitement, to a point

 

you can't do that with robots and computers

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[without a drought]

NFL can't figure out their own rules, never heard of that.

[Orlando Tim]

On 9/18/2018 at 12:25 PM, KD in CA said:

 

I can always defend a bad call.  I can't defend a phantom call.  How do you throw a flag on something you didn't see?   That's the problem -- the default reaction is to throw a flag.

I mainly agree and hate phantoms- would prefer a few misses to too many calls but i amazed by amount of times calls clearly are called and expected actions and not on actual plays

[Punching Bag]

16 hours ago, Gigs said:

The tech is there to automate the refs and judges. Just do it, because this inability to enforce your own rules is making the game weak

 

So you want Billicheat's Russian friends to be able to hack into automation to help them cheat?

[Coach Tuesday]

I really cannot understand why a multi-billion dollar industry cannot get its act together to design and enforce rules in a clear and consistent way.

 

It is affecting my enjoyment of, and interest in, the sport.  I watch less and less of it.

 

Goodell's NFL is boring, unfair, and surprisingly reactive and stupid.

[mannc]

On 9/18/2018 at 6:12 AM, RoyBatty is alive said:

I think from the refs angle he thought Matthews put all his weight on the QB, from the angle we see in this thread it is clear he didn't.  I understand why the rule, often these 310 pound DT put their weight on the QB on purpose, it doesn't assist in bringing the QB down.

 

All the more ridiculous given that Anthony Barr’s far dirtier hit, which put Aaron Rodgers out for most of the year, was not flagged.  Barr intentionally landed on Rodgers with his full weight well after the ball was away, the opposite of what Matthews did.

15 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I really cannot understand why a multi-billion dollar industry cannot get its act together to design and enforce rules in a clear and consistent way.

 

It is affecting my enjoyment of, and interest in, the sport.  I watch less and less of it.

 

Goodell's NFL is boring, unfair, and surprisingly reactive and stupid.

Simple solution—video review.  It works.

[Doc Brown]

41 minutes ago, mannc said:

All the more ridiculous given that Anthony Barr’s far dirtier hit, which put Aaron Rodgers out for most of the year, was not flagged.  Barr intentionally landed on Rodgers with his full weight well after the ball was away, the opposite of what Matthews did.

It wasn't called because it wasn't a roughing the passer according to the rule book at the time, but they made the "body weight" rule based off that hit.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Doc Brown

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I really cannot understand why a multi-billion dollar industry cannot get its act together to design and enforce rules in a clear and consistent way.

 

Believe it or not it is same in other industries.  Even traffic rules have contradictions with me getting a ticket once for "impeding traffic flow" because I was going the speed limit and cars were going to my bumper and then darting into traffic.  I told officer than I could not prevent it without speeding and he said I should have sped up until traffic slowed down!

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Simple solution—video review.  It works.

 

Except it doesn't!  The NFL can't even get the video review system right - they're constantly overturning calls without clear and convincing video evidence, or letting obviously poor calls stand.  

[SoCal Deek]

There isn’t one thing about the NFL that has improved since Roger Goodell’s been the Commissioner. Yet he keeps his job and even gets a raise. The Owners are clueless.

[mannc]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Except it doesn't!  The NFL can't even get the video review system right - they're constantly overturning calls without clear and convincing video evidence, or letting obviously poor calls stand.  

Usually they get it right with video replay.  The fact that they occasionally screw up the replay review (always to the benefit of the Patriots) doesn’t mean the entire system is no good.  It’s used in college football to review illegal hits and it works there.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Usually they get it right with video replay.  The fact that they occasionally screw up the replay review (always to the benefit of the Patriots) doesn’t mean the entire system is no good.  It’s used in college football to review illegal hits and it works there.

 

occasionally screw it up???

 

then again they are usually only looking at tough calls, so it will have a large charge of being messed up again

 

 

this year it seems a bit better in college for correct ejection due to hits, the prior years were grossly unfair and inconsistent

 

but they season is still young....

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]